Best Reviewed A-MVA Monitor Thread: Read the 1st Post

Immolation1991 said:
I am pretty sure what Metal H meant was not an actual mirroring effect on the screen, but a sparkling effect that I only noticed so far on dark grey colors. The reflective stripe comparison is pretty accurate.
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It wasn't a typical lcd sparkle effect or anything like that, nor the mirror effect from the semi-glossy coating, which I have to admit bothered me initially as it was pretty noticeable, but I've adapt to it pretty quickly and it stopped bothering me. But that was a different thing, even if the coating might or might not have contributed to it, it definitely wasn't the main cause.

Pretty much mostly noticed it here on the red stripes of the forum and the lighter grey background too.

Initially I too thought it might be from the semi-gloss coating, in fact I dunno why, I was actually convinced it was bcs of it. Tho after some time with the display I realized the "fault" lied in the VA technology it self. Or maybe the specific Panel model, as I haven't ever used any other VA monitors before I can't tell which is the correct answer. But for sure it wasn't bcs of the coating.

If it was the coating it would've been affected by day/night, light/dark light environment and I've noticed this had little to no effect on the issue at all. It was there regardless of what brightness/contrast settings you would set either.

And it wasn't subjectively just me, as anyone else I've showed the display (even w/o pointing out the reflective tape effect) also noticed it. My old (ancient :p) Samsung 710N that still works has a fairly light matte coating and I've never noticed anything even remotely close to this effect.

I am quite easily annoyed by LCD sparkle btw, I can really make a difference between a sparkle (d)effect and this reflecting stripe (d)effect and can tell that they weren't the same thing. As I've mentioned this was visible even in dark room with the screen displaying very little light like on this forum. Anything else I've tested it on. That's why I think that if it was the coating that was causing it I was not gonna notice it. Unless the coating is made of some weird reflective material itself, talking about structure itself rather than the semi-gloss finish.
 
MLegend said:
Redlemur I've also been very annoyed and frustrated with the 25XW because of the yellow tint my unit has. It's extremely noticeable compared side by side with my Samsung D390HL. The tint not only affects skin tones but also the whole grayscale on my unit. On lagoms white saturation test all of the inner checkerboard patterns are yellow instead of gray. Same with youtubes background. I tried fixing it with the rgb scales but I had the same issues as you. This did more harm than good resulting in either a different color tint or a very inaccurate color temp with sickly looking skin tones. The issues with the contrast adjustment really threw me off. I have never had a monitor that changes color temp and rgb bias by changing the contrast. This monitor is ridiculous. I've decided to send this back to amazon and exchange this for another one to see if it's just a faulty panel that I received or if it's an inherent problem with the panel itself.

Very sad to say considering everything else is absolutely fantastic. If it's not just a faulty panel that I received and it is a problem with the panel than I really hope HP fixes it and releases a new line up this year without the issues. If this monitor didn't have the tint issues and the skin tones looked more accurate......holy shit.
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I also posted in the HP 25xw/27 thread and I did the same, I sent back and tried a 2nd, no difference. And then others posted the issue. It's a shame indeed because it's a great IPS otherwise, glow isn't bad, higher than average contrast for IPS. The 6 bit AFRC is top the other 2 IPS I tried were just bad, clear dithering and banding. But the HP's AH-IPS one was almost as good as true 8 bit! Glossy screen I love personally over matte which enhances clarity like no other panel coating can. But I experienced the same grayscale errors I mentioned. Technicolor mode actually got rid of a lot of the yellow tinting on skin BUT, the gray was greenish; it also made gray reflect in a weird way and contrast changing RGB is just odd - and I can't adjust any other setting either in that mode.

NOW, both my HP25xw's were made in March 2016; maybe this is a worse batch compared to ones when NCX did his review but the tint is an issue for these AH-IPS. Again, maybe worse or unfixable with our revisions idk as NCX mentioned a "barely noticable green tint" in native temp; but it's in EVERYTHING I couldn't get rid of it even with ICC profiling.

Sadly, no sub 300 IPS has been without such a color issues OR just bad 6 bit FRC tech; where dithering/banding was just unacceptable to me.

szapio said:
As you can read in the video description at 0:11 I moved myself to left, this is what's causing a "crush" but really it's just a shadow. And yes this is caused by the coating. Here's a photo of this coating in a broad daylight
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That's what center on black crush is for VA. It makes it seem like it's your shadow/reflection, I mean in part it is but It is because of the internal working of VA technology, not the semi-gloss it would do this regardless of the screen type. I've tried 3 IPS and 3 VAs now of varying panel coatings. My glossy HP 25xw does not "center on crush" no matter how I move and it has more reflection and shadow because of the full gloss. It's the way the VA panel's pixels absorbs, reflects light/produces the image seen on screen because the gamma isn't uniform - so based by your viewing angle and perhaps the panel coating can enhance the effect, but it's not caused by it.

Metal H said:
A quick hello, don't wanna hijack this thread or go off-topic, but I wanted to let you know that I have fixed my attention on Samsung S24E370DL and Samsung S24D590PL so far and made a thread about it here.

In case anyone is interested in going the same way or may find it useful if VA doesn't seem to be the panel for them.

I still am cautious about IPS/PLS Glow, tho the panels I've thrown a quick look in the mall I coulsdn't find anything that may even remotely bother me. Of course due to the lightning and other factors I am sure this is 1000 times less noticeable compared to a dark room f.e. But overall with LCD displays you gotta pick some trade offs. They aren't perfect. And I maybe backlight bleed would bother me more tbh.

Either way I think I'll be better overall than with VA.
What really bothered me with the VA tech was the central black, where dark details fade and you have to move sideways to be able to see more details. I knew this was inherited of VA panel technology, but honestly it really annoyed me more than I thought I would. Another thing is the more noticeable (even compared to 10 year old TN) "reflective stripe" effect that was visible on dark colors. This forum in particular was a perfect example of a worse case scenario. And unlike the other shortcomings I haven't had read this in any review or article that I've cover. Very funny why no one has ever mentioned it. It wasn't as bad as the central black fade, but it still itched me now and then. Actually this was 1 of the reasons why I wanted to move to something else than a TN, but compared to my VA it's a barely notice.
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Showrooms will never show the flaws you'll get in person like I decided to do trying many more monitors than I'd like, only can really see it in your room under your personal lighting conditions/settings.

Yes, this is still my biggest issue with VA; more than any blurring/ghosting. It's what made me go try more IPS and my experience is mixed as I mentioned in my quote above and elsewhere on this thread. The glow on this wasnt terrible but I did start to notice more and more at night when I am always in darkness in room. A lot I loved like the glossy screen, no black crush center on, but that color issue I could not tolerate.

I had to go try VA again, currently on the EW2750ZL which I need to post photos/vids/tests and I mentioned in others posts above but it has the least gamma shift of any VA Ive seen; compared to the VZ2470h I mini-reviewed above it's insane that VZ2470h color shifted more than Michael Jackson ever did (RIP love MJ dont mean to offend! :p once compared side by side to the EW that VZ was one of the worst gamma shifts despite other improvements over the GW2470. But I can view EW across room standing up and at a corner angle and it shifts a little thus "slightly washes out" but doesn't get worse or extreme; and the washout is barely anything to notice with calibrated settings, nothing unwatchable like every other VA I tried. I'm still shocked tbh.

Now the black crush center on, yeah that is NOT less which DOES nag at me still, though it's maybe improved due to black scale options you can set, it still gets me. It's like you can't stop but notice it :p. And I do notice some reflective striping on the EW2750ZL. It's not terribly bothersome or noticeable to me. BUT there definitely is some. That being said even on my IPS glossy screen it wasn't 0% when viewing this forum, compared side by side yeah there's more of it on the VA but my HP due to the technicolor settings had it too. Ironically the TN laptop I am on now has it best lol, tho it is an expensive one.

But the EW's color/grayscale is easily 100% sRGB and no flesh bias you can't fix/change, definitely can achieve "neutral" white 6500k or as close as a WLED can; and slightly less blur/crushing with movement in dark backgrounds/transitions (tho it definitely still will AGAIN, I'm not bothered by it like many others). And I will say once you go 27'' you wont go back to 24 holy cow man :p

It's still tough to decide because it's big tradeoffs lol unless one waits or spends a lot more or goes 2k-4k and thus spends a lot more; and even then there's IPS glow, black crush for VA, etc. Sucks. Less of two evils idk; I mean I have 3 monitors tho returning that VZ today; don't think I'll ever be truly satisfied. I guess after trying multiple IPS and VA; all sizes and screen types, if it's about crush/shift vs. color accuracy/white/grayscale, I'll have to take the black crush/shift sadly. Though that's helped by the immensely little shift of my current VA.

Haven't found an IPS without a tint issue OR if there isn't, the 6 bit FRC is bad. But many clearly aren't bothered by that like I'm not by ghosting/blur when others completely are by that. And then IPS glow sure, more so maybe how not so deep the blacks are vs. VA too. ANYWAYS didn't meant to ramble off like I do...
 
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It would seem that TN has the least severity concerning this "Reflective Stripe" issue then? :p
I still haven't ordered or completely decided on any panel so I still have time to change my mind. However the only TN panel worth switching instead of PLS/IPS would be a BenQ XL and ZL (or wtfever was the name), tho that rules out FreeSync. I've decided to get a Polaris given it will be out by the end of the month and will be considerably cheaper.

There's some recent FreeSync TN's, tho I really wanted to give PLS a try.
I thought this issue should be non-existent on IPS/PLS, bcs it's mostly the gamma shift that's causing. Hence they have the best uniformity in most cases. What I think the case is that VA being vertically aligned exhibits the issue mostly when you move left and right, while for TN (tho no where comparable) you may notice gamma/color shift when moving up and down. The aforementioned BenQ's actually have pretty impressive side viewing angles. Check out Linus' video. However horizontal shift is still there so, you gotta make a trade off somewhere. :p

Tinting might be bcs of the aggressive matte coating that most AH-IPS use. You can find few threads on the internet of before and after coating removal pics.
 
Redlemur said:
I also posted in the HP 25xw/27 thread and I did the same, I sent back and tried a 2nd, no difference. And then others posted the issue. It's a shame indeed because it's a great IPS otherwise, glow isn't bad, higher than average contrast for IPS. The 6 bit AFRC is top the other 2 IPS I tried were just bad, clear dithering and banding. But the HP's AH-IPS one was almost as good as true 8 bit! Glossy screen I love personally over matte which enhances clarity like no other panel coating can. But I experienced the same grayscale errors I mentioned. Technicolor mode actually got rid of a lot of the yellow tinting on skin BUT, the gray was greenish; it also made gray reflect in a weird way and contrast changing RGB is just odd - and I can't adjust any other setting either in that mode.

NOW, both my HP25xw's were made in March 2016; maybe this is a worse batch compared to ones when NCX did his review but the tint is an issue for these AH-IPS. Again, maybe worse or unfixable with our revisions idk as NCX mentioned a "barely noticable green tint" in native temp; but it's in EVERYTHING I couldn't get rid of it even with ICC profiling.

Sadly, no sub 300 IPS has been without such a color issues OR just bad 6 bit FRC tech; where dithering/banding was just unacceptable to me.
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Damn it. That's so disappointing to hear. The 2nd monitor is already on the way. If this one has the same issues then i'll try one more time just because I want to believe that it's a panel issue. Even though you've already told me that many others have had the same experience, I want to be 100% sure. I just can't believe HP could let this pass quality control. That's just unprofessional.
 
Like mentioned earlier I have a cheap Acer IPS, which I dont think is AH-IPS but has a similar issue. I still wonder if only a few of the budget panels suffer from this and why there is so little complain about it.
 
Immolation1991 said:
Like mentioned earlier I have a cheap Acer IPS, which I dont think is AH-IPS but has a similar issue.
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Depends whether it has strong AG coating.

Immolation1991 said:
I still wonder if only a few of the budget panels suffer from this and why there is so little complain about it.
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Most ppl wouldn't even look or notice it. Or at least that is what the over impression/assumption is. There may be a bigger number in general that will notice it and be bothered about it, but in most cases ppl won't bother with writing or complaining about it. First question is where? Most likely hood you'll find average users writing reviews on amazon at best.

Part of the reason why monitors lags behind on some qualities and features, like the response times, refresh rates and color reproduction even is partly or significantly bcs the industry/marketing think that most (and I mean above 60% - 80%) of the ppl on the market won't notice or complain about stuff like color tinting, slow response times/motion reproduction or care much about color accuracy. And they would be mostly right.

I myself tbh wouldn't notice or be able to make a difference between different display types and their advantages or disadvantages if I hadn't researched significant info on monitor technology. I still learn new stuff now and then so I don't know as much as a guy working for a display company or even some of the hardcore enthusiasts. What's left for average users who would buy low - mid range displays in most cases and don't know anything about different technologies. Worth mentioning that even some of the more expensive displays have quirks like that. There was a not long ago ASUS TN with super heavy Matte Coating, so it's not limited yo only a specific type of Panels on that or other regards. :p

Truth is that 10 yo CRT TV's have better color accuracy and motion reproduction compared to the majority of LCD displays we have today. Yeah, the resolution is much lower and they flicker too, but still food for thought.
 
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what is the stripe effect you're all talking about? do you see grey colors like the stripes of reflective vests?
 
In fairness Legend, the majority of blame is with LG who manufacturers the actual panels. Though yes HP and the like can probably do more once they get the panels to adjust the tinting issues. Check your manufacterr date, it's on panel itself AND box, side, should say revision and made. Just curious if it is more a batch issue like we just got a worse group where this tinting issue is especially bad in.

Metal H said:
It would seem that TN has the least severity concerning this "Reflective Stripe" issue then? :p

There's some recent FreeSync TN's, tho I really wanted to give PLS a try.
I thought this issue should be non-existent on IPS/PLS, bcs it's mostly the gamma shift that's causing. Hence they have the best uniformity in most cases. What I think the case is that VA being vertically aligned exhibits the issue mostly when you move left and right, while for TN (tho no where comparable) you may notice gamma/color shift when moving up and down. The aforementioned BenQ's actually have pretty impressive side viewing angles. Check out Linus' video. However horizontal shift is still there so, you gotta make a trade off somewhere. :p

Tinting might be bcs of the aggressive matte coating that most AH-IPS use. You can find few threads on the internet of before and after coating removal pics.
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Part of it is gamma settings, and screen size maybe too. My laptop doesn't have the angle range to see the reflectiveness and it's full gloss, so everything reflects hah maybe it's like an illusion of looking better.

Also the HP 25xw AH-IPS are low haze glossy. The least AG coating you can get, nearly full gloss I mean it IS full gloss it's not the heavy matte crap you get on many IPS. It's not a matter of coating, it's the panel construction.As I said the Technicolor mode helps a lot but is very limiting. It has it's own delta curve you see the black scale and gamma change to its own settings like no other mode when switch to it. But it still has a tint for grays, and slight yellowing still for skin tones though tbh it's passable for me it really is close to natural skin tone levels with this mode, so it IS something that can be adjusted but it's still far too limiting, change contrast or brightness and it reverts to custom RGB which completely changes the delta curve and everything to the full on yellowing and green tinting.

It's a real misnomer that IPS is more color accurate. It CAN be, but most sub 300 and even 400 FHD IPS are not. It's more uniform, you do not get the gamma shift you do on TN/VA, but ALL sub 400 IPS FHD are 6 bit FRC. And not all FRC are good, HP had the best I've seen; all others sucked. Asus and LG direct I tried were poor you could see dithering and banding far more extremely. The heavy matte coatings did not help. And though these 2015 IPS vary they get mid to upper sRGB aka 95-99% on the HPs anyways, according to NCX.

VA, at least BenQ and most Samsung you get true 8 bit color; and near 100% or higher sRGB (I mean there are some models with lower 90s). And you can see the contrast difference, beyond the glow. That's the other thing with IPS backlight bleed, the luminance levels are all over vs. VA. I'm almost certain regardless of my loathing for the center on black crush with VA, the positives outweigh the negatives vs. IPS at this level. And the EW's gamma shifting as said is the least I've seen and it's 27'' you'd think it'd be worse. But that being said, being 27'' you can see shift at sides because of side viewing from center, subtle as it may be.

Metal H said:
I still haven't ordered or completely decided on any panel so I still have time to change my mind. However the only TN panel worth switching instead of PLS/IPS would be a BenQ XL and ZL (or wtfever was the name), tho that rules out FreeSync. I've decided to get a Polaris given it will be out by the end of the month and will be considerably cheaper.
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I could never go back to TN for desktop. Though I game a bit, clearly not at the level where I need TN's higher frames and lower latency. Honestly, I'd try the PLS; can always send back. I've lost some money as Amazon charges for shipping returns but worth it. Nothing like first hand experience can read all the reviews, tests, comments, but also panel revisions and lottery play a big factor. However I think I'm a panel addict haha I want to try more. :D

Immolation1991 said:
Like mentioned earlier I have a cheap Acer IPS, which I dont think is AH-IPS but has a similar issue. I still wonder if only a few of the budget panels suffer from this and why there is so little complain about it.
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Most consumers do not have the critical eye we do; many are so used to bad TNs or bluer white balance, never even touch presets, and all good I WISH I could be that content and ignorant tbh. But I work in film/video so lighting and colors and skin tones especially are something I can not see passed.
 
leadays said:
what is the stripe effect you're all talking about? do you see grey colors like the stripes of reflective vests?
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To describe it as accurately as I can, it's akin to what a reflective stripe (on reflective vests) looks like, sorta, but it's of course not as pronounced as a real reflective stripe. It's noticeable on dark hues and mostly dark greyish colors. Describing it as a "reflective stripe" is the most similar thing you can think of to compare. However in order to tell if it will be a problem for you, you gotta judge for yourself first hand. On the good side it's actually quite easy to notice and to tell whether it will be a problem for you from first glance. Best example to test for me is this forum right here, but you can easily test on pretty much any dark color/hue.

My guess is this effect probably varies from manufacturer to manufacturer. Model and panel type as well.
 
NCX updated his review of the HP 25xw/27cw with the 27xw (so it falls in line with the current 25xw panels 2016 made) which comments on the green tint issue, so it's as I thought it's a batch issue. I will post it in the appropriate HP 25-26 CW/XW Talk for discussion for those who've been posting here about the HP 25xw.
 
Anyone heard anything about the new Lenovo y27g's availability in Europe?

It's a 27 inch 1080p curved 144hz AMVA with G-sync. Could be interesting. Not sure if it's been mentioned here before
 
Are the Lenovos even available anywhere? I also couldn't find any listings in Asia.
It is using an SVA panel most likely, not AMVA. Probably LTM270HP02, or an internal version right before that.
Seems Samsung had some delays getting mass production (MP) going after the customer samples (CS) were out. MP has just started last month.
If that's the panel I expect a delay until August/September. Same goes for the upcoming AOC AG272FCX, it is almost identical to the Lenovo Y27f
 
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I think I've seen some NA listings for the y27g while searching online. Apologies for the AMVA / SVA mix up.

I've decided to give up on my monitor search, at least for now. TN is end-of-life, I can't stand IPS glow and QC issues with IPS and its variants are dreadful.

It's very easy for most people to dream up an ideal monitor. In my case e.g. a 27inch 1440p (AM/S/etc)VA panel with 144hz and decent responsiveness.

The monitor market seems at first glance to be oversaturated. But when delving deeper it becomes evident that it's actually the other way around. TN is shamelessly being milked and sold for exorbitant prices with GamerzZzZ stickers slapped on. IPS is being produced and sold with horrible defects for even higher prices. VA seems to be the most underrepresented panel type in the market. VA doesn't seem to be limited on the market because of its inherent flaws, but rather the lack of variety in available VA panrels. All these panel types seem randomly targeted to specific groups of consumers, creating huge gaps and leaving them open for years on end.

IMO it's a very sad state of affairs that has been going on for more than a decade. I have a hard time imagining how and why the monitor market could still be in this condition. Because of this I can't shake the feeling that it's being done on purpose, under the pretext of 'consumers will buy it regardless.'

Thus I feel it's a good option to postpone buying a new monitor until better models become available.
 
MMores said:
I think I've seen some NA listings for the y27g while searching online. Apologies for the AMVA / SVA mix up.

I've decided to give up on my monitor search, at least for now. TN is end-of-life, I can't stand IPS glow and QC issues with IPS and its variants are dreadful.

It's very easy for most people to dream up an ideal monitor. In my case e.g. a 27inch 1440p (AM/S/etc)VA panel with 144hz and decent responsiveness.

The monitor market seems at first glance to be oversaturated. But when delving deeper it becomes evident that it's actually the other way around. TN is shamelessly being milked and sold for exorbitant prices with GamerzZzZ stickers slapped on. IPS is being produced and sold with horrible defects for even higher prices. VA seems to be the most underrepresented panel type in the market. VA doesn't seem to be limited on the market because of its inherent flaws, but rather the lack of variety in available VA panrels. All these panel types seem randomly targeted to specific groups of consumers, creating huge gaps and leaving them open for years on end.

IMO it's a very sad state of affairs that has been going on for more than a decade. I have a hard time imagining how and why the monitor market could still be in this condition. Because of this I can't shake the feeling that it's being done on purpose, under the pretext of 'consumers will buy it regardless.'

Thus I feel it's a good option to postpone buying a new monitor until better models become available.
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Lol no need to apologize!
Check Tftcentral news, there are boatloads of high refresh VA panels coming this year and the next, both from Samsung and AUO.
Not long until they catch up now, then people have a relatively wide range of choices encompassing all 3 main panel types.

I wonder why they focus so much on VA in the future. It could have something to do with the amounts of complaints/returns due to IPS glow or BLB.
Another factor may be that HDR support is going to be easier to implement due to the lower native black levels.
 
Is it just me or are practically all of the upcoming VA panels curved.
 
VAs can produce better blacks obviously and true 8 bit for cheaper but aside from black crush/some gamma shifting that anyone coming from TN shouldn't mind tbh; it's the response time/dark transition crushing issues VA is plagued by that gamers avoid. I've seen a much larger VA push these last 2 years esp 2015 and 2016; technology has improved; if they can tackle the response time truly (not misleading g2g stuff) then maybe it can overtake IPS as the non-TN choice.

The purely entertainment market isn't enough; if VA can get IPS level response times, or better; there is still issues of blur in dark scenes/etc. I doubt it but IPS glow/prices do bother many like me. I don't know why all going curved it doesn't make a big difference VA wise in solving the issues if you see/compare reviews just seems the way panels are going; like there's no new panel coming that doesn't have no flickering or any blue filters etc.
 
I want to get a 27-28" va panel, i read this thread and some reviews but they all look the same. I will try a random benq they have so many different versions with almost no difference at all. Do you have some advice for a version with better response time?
 
leadays said:
I want to get a 27-28" va panel, i read this thread and some reviews but they all look the same. I will try a random benq they have so many different versions with almost no difference at all. Do you have some advice for a version with better response time?
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There are currently two 27" 1080p VA panels I'm recommending that people try.
  1. BenQ EW2750ZL - It's $200, well rounded, great response time (for a VA panel), and better horizontal viewing angles than I'm used to from a VA. IMO, you won't find a better 27" 1080p VA panel at or near $200.
  2. Samsung C27F591 - I saw one in BestBuy and didn't care for it, but I have to allow for the very real possibility that it was configured incorrectly. It's $350, and the key benefits over the BenQ are FreeSync support and the curve to it (though some don't like this). Under the hood, it uses a Samsung PVA panel as apposed to the AUO AMVA+ panel in the BenQ. The PVA has a lower tested contrast ratio, and many professional reviewers feel that they have worse overshoot ghosting via Samsung's overdrive implementation. But that's based on prior models and I didn't test the response time on this model.
  3. Not yet available and certainly more expensive, the Lenovo Y27 series (see link a few posts above) is showing some potential.
 
Thanks daniel i will try the benq ew2750l, the response time from reviews looks great and it can be overclocked to 75hz.

I'm trying not to spend too much because i'm planning to buy a good 144 hz va when it's released in europe (maybe even ips we'll see). My last monitor died and i can't stand using this old 20" TN with pwm dimming and vga so i definitely needed a new one.
 
leadays said:
I want to get a 27-28" va panel, i read this thread and some reviews but they all look the same. I will try a random benq they have so many different versions with almost no difference at all. Do you have some advice for a version with better response time?
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I agree with Daniel the EW2750ZL. After many monitors - it's the one I likely will stick with. It still has center on black crush/gamma shift; but no VA will not have that; and as said the shift is least I've seen on a VA. I have It overclocks 75hz simply. Color/contrast wise hard to beat also it's incredible visually other than a HP 25xw IPS glossy screen it's the best visually I've seen and the HP had color issues had to return, none here easiest calibration/preset options. The semi-gloss matte screen with some gamma shift can make some things milky or shiny depending ur position, if like sun/light shining directly on it but this is an issue with matte panels. Barely noticeable. IIt has less dark blurring I've seen too; though it isn't gone it bothers a lot of ppl (VA issue) newer Samsungs have been shown to do this best, BenQ overshoots still. BUT - I think it's a great monitor. Blur doesn't bother me like others tho.
 
Redlemur said:
I agree with Daniel the EW2750ZL. After many monitors - it's the one I likely will stick with. It still has center on black crush/gamma shift; but no VA will not have that; and as said the shift is least I've seen on a VA. I have It overclocks 75hz simply. Color/contrast wise hard to beat also it's incredible visually other than a HP 25xw IPS glossy screen it's the best visually I've seen and the HP had color issues had to return, none here easiest calibration/preset options. The semi-gloss matte screen with some gamma shift can make some things milky or shiny depending ur position, if like sun/light shining directly on it but this is an issue with matte panels. Barely noticeable. IIt has less dark blurring I've seen too; though it isn't gone it bothers a lot of ppl (VA issue) newer Samsungs have been shown to do this best, BenQ overshoots still. BUT - I think it's a great monitor. Blur doesn't bother me like others tho.
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I'm playing with a new monitor this week that isn't VA, but it's worth mentioning to you due to our similar tastes. I'm using an LG 27UD68-p (-p = black, -w = silver/white). It's a 4k 27" IPS w/FreeSync for $500 (usually on sale for $400). It caught me by surprise and I am strongly considering replacing the BenQ with it. Some things of note:
  • FreeSync support
  • Scaling is outstanding (but not perfect, of course)
  • No lottery based on reviews. My experience? No dead/bright/stuck pixels. Zero backlight bleed. Typical-to-low IPS glow. Acceptable in that regard.
  • Coating is interesting. It's a film, but very reflective. Looks glossy at some angles, but it's not. True semi-gloss? It's lighter than the EW2750ZL, which shocked me.
I plan to use it exclusively for a week (this will be tough given all my test setups and plugged in monitors...I think I have a problem, lol), and then go back to the BenQ to see how I feel. However, the wife made it clear, since it came in one monitor has to go. I have to get rid of one in the next few weeks. She wants space.
 
Redlemur as for the response time, would you say the EW performs better than the VZ?

I'm propably gonna wait for the EW2775ZH though, you can already preorder it here for the same price.
 
Daniel_Chang said:
I'm playing with a new monitor this week that isn't VA, but it's worth mentioning to you due to our similar tastes. I'm using an LG 27UD68-p (-p = black, -w = silver/white). It's a 4k 27" IPS w/FreeSync for $500 (usually on sale for $400). It caught me by surprise and I am strongly considering replacing the BenQ with it. Some things of note:
  • FreeSync support
  • Scaling is outstanding (but not perfect, of course)
  • No lottery based on reviews. My experience? No dead/bright/stuck pixels. Zero backlight bleed. Typical-to-low IPS glow. Acceptable in that regard.
  • Coating is interesting. It's a film, but very reflective. Looks glossy at some angles, but it's not. True semi-gloss? It's lighter than the EW2750ZL, which shocked me.
I plan to use it exclusively for a week (this will be tough given all my test setups and plugged in monitors...I think I have a problem, lol), and then go back to the BenQ to see how I feel. However, the wife made it clear, since it came in one monitor has to go. I have to get rid of one in the next few weeks. She wants space.
Click to expand...

Let me know :) I know 4k IPS has a lot of what I like; true 8 bit/sometimes 10 with AFRC; higher gamut, etc. tho many still WLED, but yeah; price and I don't need 4k right now I'd never try these. But good to hear esp if I'm sure prob lean towards the new LG you have but curious how EW looks after a week of only using the LG 4k IPS. If it's like 60/40 towards the IPS or closer I'd consider that still great for the EW2750ZL

Immolation1991 said:
Redlemur as for the response time, would you say the EW performs better than the VZ?

I'm propably gonna wait for the EW2775ZH though, you can already preorder it here for the same price.
Click to expand...

I did a test on VZ like what pcmonitors uses to test; but a different one, and tested the EW but forgot to save that result. The EW was better than the VZ, not by a huge amount. Eye test wise I also notice this, just my own website has blue text and black background, and other colors on black. All other VAs I've tried when scroll heavily blur/crush it. Now that never bothered me, but the EW on AMS High is barely noticeable, much closer to IPS when scroll. No trailing or anything. Now that's daily stuff game wise, I have not played CS for a while yet; or faster based game/shooters on it, but have played MMOs with dark areas and again overclocking frames and I don't notice blur but as I've said always here it clearly doesn't bother me like others so my eyes are not as critical.

VZ's biggest issue for me was gamma shift was extreme;

How did I miss this? EW2775ZH? Oh I mentioned it a while back; haven't seen it NA yet, and honestly looked gimmicky the BI and dynamic brightness adjustments make me eh, need to see a good review/test on it. Not sure I can wait tho if it's coming here.
 
PCM review of the F591FD has been posted couple days ago
Samsung C27F591FD Review - PC Monitors

hardware.info also just recently recorded various test results for 4 of the new FreeSync curved SVA (C24F390FHU, C27F591FDU, C27F396FHU, C32F391FWU)
Comparison table | Hardware.Info United Kingdom

Overall they perform as expected, they test for a bit more stuff now so those tables are becoming really cluttered.
Again I noticed the SVA have a slower 0%-100% (black to white rise time) than the multiple AMVA+ panels hardware.info tested - about 14-19ms.
Most SVA tested except for the HP Envy 34 and the S34E790C show similar results.
It's not high enough to be too problematic at the 60-75hz ranges, but the upcoming 144hz panels need to improve that or it will be noticeable.
They do not test the important 0%-20% transition (black to dark grey rise time) on the site so sadly no exact numbers on how the Overdrive affects this.

Contrast ratios: (X-Rite i1 Display Pro)
C27F396FH 2480:1
C24F390FH 2512:1
C27F591FD 2987:1
C32F391FW 3721:1
 
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Recently scratched my GW2470H so I'm looking to upgrade. Would like another 24"~ 1080p monitor.
Unfortunately it looks like there still isn't anything much better. All BenQ has released since is the VZ2470H which is just slightly improved from what I've seen.

Why can't someone release a 24" VA panel with a good overdrive setting already? Premium always overshoots and High could be quite a bit higher...
Maybe they should let users control it on a scale of 0-100 or something, since the manufacturer's don't seem to care to fine tune it at all.
3 settings isn't enough when they're all a mile off the mark.
 
Maybe give the HKC X3 import a try, it does appear to have a pretty good overdrive and also 120hz.
Or you could wait for the upcoming 23.6'' 144hz curved Samsung panel (production planned July 16).
 
It sucks that Samsung feels the need to curve everything slightly which significantly increases the price...
Actually I guess they're not THAT much more. I just feel whatever cost increase it takes to manufacturer them curved isn't worth it.

The Samsung C24F390 has my eye, it's new.
Could maybe overclock to 80hz+ since it's default 72hz guaranteed with AMD's sync.
The contrast ratio at 2500:1 is a bit disappointing, pretty sure the GW2470H gets near 4000:1 in reviews. C24F390 overdrive is probably better, can't be more sluggish than BenQ's High setting.

It's looks like only Samsung and AUO are making VA panels right now.
Since BenQ gets basically everything AUO puts out and they've yet to release anything different at 1080p 24"~ since the GW2470H, I'm really considering this new Samsung.


I assume this is well up to date: TFT Central Monitor Panel Part Database
The 23-23.8" section for 1920x1080 VA's in 2015/2016 only show AUO and Samsung doing anything.
I'm only looking at 23.5" and above.
Innolux has been doing some S-MVA stuff but I've seen nobody mention their panels and I have no idea what monitors they're paired with.

The Samsung C24F390 is the LSM236HP02-? on there with the 60hz.
BenQ with the M238HVN01.0 (GW2470H) and M238HVN01.1 (VZ2470H) which are basically the same thing, both 2015. Not looking to buy the same exact visual experience and there's nothing else new from AUO.
 
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igluk said:
Maybe give the HKC X3 import a try, it does appear to have a pretty good overdrive and also 120hz.
Or you could wait for the upcoming 23.6'' 144hz curved Samsung panel (production planned July 16).
Click to expand...
Do we have any info on pricing, pics, anything about this 23.6 144hz Samsung?
As far as I know all the current high refresh rate VA's are higher res than 1920x1080 or ultrawides.
1920x1080 120hz+ VA sounds pretty perfect to me, wonder if it will be crazy expensive and have Gsync.
If it's super expensive I'll just get the Samsung C24F390, probably/basically the 60hz version of this upcoming monitor.
 
^ The curved Samsung if anything will probably be middle priced and slightly high if its curved. Anything curved is another + $100 then +$100 for GSYNC. Samsung has seemed awfully quiet about this , but its not like them to make a lot of noise marketing like Asus or Acer who have large representations for their monitors. Tvs are a whole other matter..

I think I saw it said it would be 3000:1 CR at pcmonitors.info
 
Hunched said:
Do we have any info on pricing, pics, anything about this 23.6 144hz Samsung?
As far as I know all the current high refresh rate VA's are higher res than 1920x1080 or ultrawides.
1920x1080 120hz+ VA sounds pretty perfect to me, wonder if it will be crazy expensive and have Gsync.
If it's super expensive I'll just get the Samsung C24F390, probably/basically the 60hz version of this upcoming monitor.
Click to expand...

There's only this on TftCentral
The dates provided below are the expected dates for production of the panels themselves, so there's normally a good few months before we then see news of any monitors making use of them, and then a few more months lag before any screens are actually available.

There is also a 23.6" VA technology panel planned for later this year. The LSM236HP02 (revision tbc) will by a 1800R curved screen with 1920 x 1080 resolution. The 60Hz version of this panel should be in production now as of April 16, with a 144Hz refresh rate version also planned for production from July 16.
Click to expand...

So if the C24F390 is using the 60hz April panel, it could come out with only a 3 month delay at the earliest but it will certainly take longer. Nothing has even been announced yet.
Samsung is betting on the FreeSync horse it seems, if there will be a G-Sync variant it will probably be from another manufacturer.
Thankfully the markup due to the curve is not high anymore as it was last year.

I think the contrast ratio measurements of playwares are too high most of the time, possibly due to a more forgiving method in combination with lucky rounding errors.
Tom's put the VZ2470H around ~3400:1, which seems more realistic. Roughly 2700:1-3800:1 is within the area the current 3000:1 AUO panels score, on average a bit higher than Samsung panels which often sit between 2400:1 and 3100:1.
Samsung is using higher scoring >4000:1 panels this year in their 2016 TV's, maybe they'll find their way into monitors eventually.
 
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The HKC X3 looks amazing, too bad it's so difficult to acquire.
What I'm confused and pissed about is the fact this monitor uses a Sharp VA panel from 2013, and that neither Samsung or AUO are capable of putting out anything close to it in terms of blur and contrast 3 1/2 years later.
The HKC X3 delivers over 5000:1 contrast compared to Samsung and AUO VA's 3000:1~ while also having significantly less blur. 3 1/2 old panel. Its contrast ratio is the same gap ahead as IPS to typical VA! Another 2000:1 more contrast than AUO and Samsung VA.

Sharp needs to come back out of nowhere and drop another bomb VA panel, they haven't since 2013 and they're still far ahead of Samsung and AUO, I don't understand how.
This makes it feel impossible to justify buying anything else for the same price when it's all worse.

Some unknown Chinese brand has by far the best VA monitor available since 2013 and AUO and Samsung still can't compete in mid 2016.... How is this even possible?
We need a petition for Sharp to come back and make more VA panels lol, Samsung and AUO are slacking big time.
 
Hunched said:
The HKC X3 looks amazing, too bad it's so difficult to acquire.
What I'm confused and pissed about is the fact this monitor uses a Sharp VA panel from 2013, and that neither Samsung or AUO are capable of putting out anything close to it in terms of blur and contrast 3 1/2 years later.
The HKC X3 delivers over 5000:1 contrast compared to Samsung and AUO VA's 3000:1~ while also having significantly less blur. 3 1/2 old panel. Its contrast ratio is the same gap ahead as IPS to typical VA! Another 2000:1 more contrast than AUO and Samsung VA.

Sharp needs to come back out of nowhere and drop another bomb VA panel, they haven't since 2013 and they're still far ahead of Samsung and AUO, I don't understand how.
This makes it feel impossible to justify buying anything else for the same price when it's all worse.

Some unknown Chinese brand has by far the best VA monitor available since 2013 and AUO and Samsung still can't compete in mid 2016.... How is this even possible?
We need a petition for Sharp to come back and make more VA panels lol, Samsung and AUO are slacking big time.
Click to expand...

When calibrated u can get up to 5317:1 Contrast ratio! Not only higher than claimed, but the deepest shade of black than any other "LCD" MONITOR that has ever been released. This year's VA tv's are producing 6800:1 in HDR modes with .018 cdm/2 black levels.. Monitors are way overpriced n way behind these days XD

Since calibration always gets different results every time, the avg is around 5200:1
 
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DanzoMeteor said:
When calibrated u can get up to 5317:1 Contrast ratio! Not only higher than claimed, but the deepest shade of black than any other MONITOR that has ever been released. This year's VA tv's are producing 6800:1 in HDR modes with .018 cdm/2 black levels.. Monitors are way overpriced n way behind these days XD
Click to expand...

Not to be "that guy" but CRT monitors have been exceeding this contrast for years. Though I agree - that's one hell of a contrast ratio from a panel. ;)
 
jbltecnicspro said:
Not to be "that guy" but CRT monitors have been exceeding this contrast for years. Though I agree - that's one hell of a contrast ratio from a panel. ;)
Click to expand...
meant to say LCD monitor. Obviously CRT and OLED have higher. Still no LCD has matched this and if anyone has one that does, post it up!
 
DanzoMeteor said:
When calibrated u can get up to 5317:1 Contrast ratio! Not only higher than claimed, but the deepest shade of black than any other MONITOR that has ever been released. This year's VA tv's are producing 6800:1 in HDR modes with .018 cdm/2 black levels.. Monitors are way overpriced n way behind these days XD

Since calibration always gets different results every time, the avg is around 5200:1
Click to expand...
Yea... I now really wish Sharp panels were more available, it seems their VA methods are far superior. They would really be forcing Samsung and AUO to step up if they were producing more and working with Asus, Acer, BenQ, etc
There's the Eizo FG2421 and this HKC X3 with Sharp's panels.
I can't even find HKC's website if they have one, curious how Sharp got involved with them out of all the companies they could work with.

I don't know what I'm going to do. I want the least VA motion blur possible, and 5000:1 would be super nice too. But ordering from China and jumping through all those hoops... Why must the best be so inconvenient?
 
Sharp is out for good, the only monitor panels they still make are a few low contrast IGZO-ASV panels for pro-monitors. They scaled back UV2A panel manufacture and only at sizes 50-60'' and above.
Their 2016 TV's almost exclusively use AS-IPS panels (and if that table is correct most are RGBW, ugh). Yeah Sharp is out :p
The LK235D3HA0S is actually from back in late 2010 and if the panelook is correct it is the only 6bit+FRC VA-type panel that is still being manufactured.

AUO made some 5000:1 monitor panels back in 2010-2012, that scored up to 6300:1 on some review sites.
But these were inferior to current VA panels in other areas (color accuracy, viewing angles, response times and PWM) and had less sophisticated subpixels.
 
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