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Discussion in 'AMD Processors' started by scharfshutze009, Apr 24, 2019.
blah blah blah... what?!
And many modern cases do as well. But you tried to say that you wanted to use the space. So water cool the CPU and all X number of GPUs. Have a blast. It'll still be a smarter choice to get a 2990wx in there instead of a dual Epyc. We showed you the dollar value benefit to using TR vs Epyc or Xeon and you still ignore it
Then GTFO. If you label AMD as nothing, then go waste other peoples time. There's a whole Intel section right here
You can't say they're nothing but hype because you "Had to compare with specification sheets." You CHOSE to compare with specification sheets instead of proper workload benchmarks. You also act as if the internet doesn't exist beyond this forum, the Intel and the AMD websites for the entirety of everything in this conversation. It's absurd to think that the benchmarks I posted don't show a clear benefit to Threadripper over a single processor Epyc AND Xeon, and even a benefit in cost to performance compared to a dual socket Epyc. And you're clearly here because you realize that mortgaging your friggin soul for top end Xeons is a waste of money when Epyc clearly beats ALL xeon offerings in the matching price brackets, and usually 1 or 2 above it as well.
As to motherboards, no, they're not geared towards gamers more than devs. That's the whole point of the boards having been posted so far, because that's exactly what you asked for. They're meant for creators of all walks of life, including game devs, and they happen to also be tolerable at gaming on top of it. The board design is just modern, just like case design today is modern, or monitors that are now 32" 144hz specialty monitors, and a good few both bigger and smaller than that. Modern times call for modernizing all the things, including design. Saying they look like they're for gamers is like saying the Tesla or Mercedes or insert brand here is meant for only the rich silicon valley types, or a pickup is just for a construction worker, or an SUV is just for a family. That's just clearly not the case anymore as it was in the past. Modern PCB development and materials allow for more colors and more options than ever before, and people like to show off their systems now with tempered glass side panels... why wouldn't they be pleasant on the eye? Hell, did you think TG side panels would be the shiny thing just 5 years ago? Or Acrylic side panels 15 years ago? No... no one really did.
Saying that Ryzen is low budget is also a jackass thing to say. People who don't buy a 2700x end up with, what? A 9700k? An 8700k? I don't think people looking at a Ryzen 2700x are worried about saving just a few dollars compared to the intel solution in the short term, it's long term. They're being smart about spending their money. You want that 8700k, fine, get it. Then don't forget to get the next socket for the next major release when you decide to upgrade because Intel decides you need to, not because it's necessary. It's been proven by many articles and videos where new processors are matched to older sockets by remapping the pins to the old socket, and work just fine. Intel just decided they could make more money that way and they do it. Hell, they only started stopping that practice to some degree once Ryzen came around. Adding to that, saying Ryzen is low budget is like saying the Core series is low budget. Encompassing the Core i3, i5, i7, i9 and M processors, a whole range of processors, and saying the Core series sucks. We know the M or i3 series sucks when put up against an i7, just as a Ryzen 3 compared to a Ryzen 7 is a whole different ballgame in terms of what they can do. The i3 is just as budget as the Ryzen 3. and the Ryzen 7 is no different than the i7 in terms of their "budget."
Making a decision to pick Ryzen for my next build doesn't make me or anyone else low budget as much as a bit smarter with my money. Why would I buy a 9700k when I can get a 2700x for cheaper with a motherboard that will support at least another 2 generations of processors making my board upgrade cost 0? Said money can then be used for the next video card or monitor, or to upgrade my server to Threadripper. Same applies with why burn cash on a dual Xeon or dual Epyc when the workload doesn't really need me wasting an extra $20k. I'd rather go put that towards a house.
AM4 is not AM3 or AM2... It's a generation of a socket. No different than 1150 vs 1151 in reality. AMD just doesn't try to entirely rip off their consumers by forcing you to upgrade for every single processor generation they release. Like I said before, Intel barely stopped doing it recently, and even then didn't need to do it for a couple they have in recent years. Hell, AMD goes further and gives you a variety of priced boards that all use the same socket and can support any processor of that generation and 1 or 2 before and after. That seems like a nice thing for the consumer. I can put a Ryzen 3 2200G in an AM4 board today, then find a good used price on a 1800x and put that in, then upgrade to the new 3xxx chips when they come out. How is that not a good thing? And PCIe 3.0 or 4.0 compatible depending what you want to spend on the board, and the older chipsets support it so it's down to the motherboard manufacturer to support it and wire for it, not AMD. That's amazing compared to Intels new socket for anything and everything method.
If you want Xeon, buy Xeon. If you want Epyc, buy Epyc. But don't be a jackass and say they're "nothing" when that's what you're looking at. It's like buying the BMW just because it's cheaper than the Merc, then complaining that it isn't a Merc. Go buy the friggin Merc if that's what you want. Shit on the BMW to yourself because shitting on it to people who like them is a crappy thing to do. You're here for a reason, so accept that reason, which is that AMD is better suited to your needs and price point. Or don't and go mortgage your soul, house, neighbors house and sell your car so you can buy the hardware for the game idea you don't have to be made with modern software you don't own and the outdated software you can't find.
I see some are just now acquainting themselves with the gift that our OP is. For a deeper dive into the Twilight Zone, check out his previous threads. Those with a fragile mind, beware.
Some of my favorites:
I'm unsure how this is the first thread of his I've ever taken notice of. His "style" is certainly memorable.
The style and asking for help and then ignoring every suggestion is his MO. I swear I sometimes think it's some elaborate social experiment being run on us, or some deep meta trolling.
The run on sentences are at a level I've never seen before. There are plenty of people who ignore advice, though probably not to this degree.
There was only one computer expert that could have helped here...
I'd never heard of that guy. He was um.....special.
He apparently was a good programmer until schizophrenia took over (eventually killed him).
Did he have three Associates in Computer Network Administration, though?
He was the smartest programmer that ever lived. He had all the degrees.
He probably knew all the KB shortcuts, too.
Yeah, in reading about the guy he certainly seems to have been an impressive programmer. Best ever? Probably debatable but certainly skilled. However, schizophrenia is no joke.
200% this is a mentally ill person who was into or had a job involving computers 15 years ago.
Participating in this thread is the text version of talking to someone with schizophrenia.
Entertaining as hell, though.
That's why I do it.
LOL! That was great!
No not really because what happened to older AMD processor features like Hyper-transport or 3DNow, even if they are no longer needed except Hyper-transport that if not mistaken entirely was a competing AMD feature to Intel's Hyper-threading that Intel still uses while AMD apparently is no longer using Hyper-transport as I can see at least for AMD Ryzen Threadripper if not AMD EPYC as stated in an AMD Ryzen Threadripper processor specification below:
Also AMD product specifications have become so vague that they seem almost non-exist too in sense that that don't even have any product features and that is what I noticed or gripped about or have been gripping about as I apparently have to basically answer my own question as to what is the best AMD processor for this Li-Lian D8000 chassis myself considering I keep getting recommendations for AMD Ryzen Threadripper instead, which I'm seeing Intel Xeon Scalable still uses most of traditional or improved version of traditional processor features that Intel and AMD coined in competition with each other around the late 1990's if not sooner as well as other competing processor manufacturers tried to coin in competition with Intel that didn't last as long as the two main rivals AMD and Intel as well as left very little left of the third main rival Cyrex as irrevalent as that all might sound.
I could read into the datasheet about these processor in more depth or carefully, but they take so much time to read, are so technical that it's difficult for me to understand what they mean sometimes especially considering I didn't quite become a computer engineer like I original intended to when I picked my major from the book of Majors from the State College of Technology that apparently is only a technical college not capable of becoming a four year college or beyond and surrounding northern or northeastern ohio colleges have ruled in favor of not allowing to become a 4 year college or beyond that is located in Stark County Ohio as irrelavent as that might seem.
I did notice something I read about mult-core processor or saw from Linus tech tips or Linus tech media point out how difficult it is to make a multi-core processor anyway.
It seems to me that once again AMD fans are trying to stear people into buying the cheaper Ryzen Threadripper instead of even AMD EPYC let alone Intel Xeon W or Xeon Scalable regardless of if actually am serious about considering AMD EPYC or that the Intel Xeon Scalable does support up to more cores at 56 cores per processor as well as that it's soldered to the motherboard with the Xeon Scalable Platinum 2982 compared to AMD highest end EPYC processor that can support up to 32 cores and 64 threads with the AMD EPYC 7601 to be exact.
That to finally explan the reason I didn't just buy the AMD EPYC board yet instead of what I actually did for now, which was put the Gigabyte 7PESH3 Intel Xeon 2011v2 socket based motherboard with the two Xean 2011v2 2603v2 processor in the Lian-LI D8000 along with a memory card reader as well as one BD-XL writer driver that a BD-XL DVD Writer BD-XL Reader drive was also intended to go in later because sooner didn't work out as well as one LG HD-DVD Reader Blu-Ray Reader DVD Writer Combo Drive including a LG HD-DVD Blu-Ray Writer Drive, and that has no RAM yet or CPU heatsink or Hard Drives or Solid State is possible to fit in the budget along with watercooling if any possible compatible watercooling parts can be found for purchase from a manufacturer for the Xeon 2011v2 processors let alone what ever else I might change to later if not once this project if finally complete as well as a place can be found to safely power it out of as in an actual place of business at least.
That finally noting this project became increasing delayed after trying to keep under a $6000 budget while originally choosing AMD H8QGI board that apparently wasn't compatible with this chassis anyway and that the order get cancelled because the Newegg order along with many others kept getting auto checked out for payment method to literally the word Null as the address somehow possibly by some hacker or who knows that in this case actually helped prevent me from order at least a motherboard and processor that weren't compatible with the Lian-Li D8000 chassis except whoever did that delayed what I tried to order before that, which was actually at least one new Cyberpower 1500RTXL2U UPS I needed to pass my still remaining last five classes in CIS-Networking at the University near my apartment that I chose to attempt to get my equivalent of the bachelor level of CNAS-Cisco Network Administration Option.
Sorry if I come off or you didn't notice I should have come off as a hothead or hot tempered person very fustrated to all of you that responded to this thread that didn't notice how fustrated I've been waiting to either make or finally see made that might definitely be what I've been waiting to see possible for once in computing and that took this long to suggest as well as seen possible too.
One other thing is that it's very frustrating that the only real reason apparently that AMD calls the EPYC processor EPYC is that it has 32 cores and can do up to 64 threads compared what Intel originally coined EPIC (Expliciitly Parallel Instruction Set Computing) that Intel tried to hail as some completely new instruction set computing compared to the original or traditional CISC (Complicated Instruction Set Computing) or the newer RISC (Reduced instruction Set Computing) architecture that apparently Intel and AMD switched to half CISC and half RISC at one point in their CPU architecture as irrelevant as that might seem. The State College of Technology I got my three associates in CNAS Computer Network Administration apparently is still studying Itanium based systems to find or see if there actually is a benefit to the architecture too according to the guy that taught me UNIX/Linux Database Admistration Option as part of the CNAS (Computer Networking Administration) program that had his PHD in electrical engineering too as irrelevant as all that might finally be.
LOL sorry but both of you two's responses are funny to now that I've noticed.
It wasn't meant to be entertaining, but AMD makes it that way now as it tries to compete with Intel considering the vague product specification pages with almost no product features in there current line of processors, like traditional Hyper-Transport or 3Dnow when compared to Intel regardless if those processor features are actually still necessary or if I'm seriously considering at least one of those options being AMD EPYC and wondering why I even bother even considering it as Intel whom I original thought I remember AMD saying apparently even admitted here on Wikipedia according to whoever edited the Wiki considering Wikipedia is also considered unscholarly the following statement that Intel actually said and had to settle the lawsuit on according to as follows:
Anti-trust allegations and litigation (2005–2009)
Main article: High-Tech Employee Antitrust Litigation
See also: AMD v. Intel
In September 2005, Intel filed a response to an AMD lawsuit, disputing AMD's claims, and claiming that Intel's business practices are fair and lawful. In a rebuttal, Intel deconstructed AMD's offensive strategy and argued that AMD struggled largely as a result of its own bad business decisions, including underinvestment in essential manufacturing capacity and excessive reliance on contracting out chip foundries. Legal analysts predicted the lawsuit would drag on for a number of years since Intel's initial response indicated its unwillingness to settle with AMD. In 2008 a court date was finally set, but in 2009, Intel settled with a $1.25 billion payout to AMD (see below).
On November 4, 2009, New York's attorney general filed an antitrust lawsuit against Intel Corp, claiming the company used "illegal threats and collusion" to dominate the market for computer microprocessors.
On November 12, 2009, AMD agreed to drop the antitrust lawsuit against Intel in exchange for $1.25 billion. A joint press release published by the two chip makers stated "While the relationship between the two companies has been difficult in the past, this agreement ends the legal disputes and enables the companies to focus all of our efforts on product innovation and development."
An antitrust lawsuit and a class-action suit relating to cold calling employees of other companies has been settled."
Quoting this and basically siting it regardless if it's Intel's fault for the need of lawsuit by AMD against Intel except considering Intel invented the x86 architecture and apparently seems to know more about how to make it work compared to AMD's aweful alternatives regardless of if you agree.
Your information is dated as fuck and you just aren't getting it. Hypertransport is AMD's version of the DEC Alpha's EV6 bus. That's what it was. It was a BUS protocol. It was the link between the CPU and the chipset. Intel had QPI, AMD had Hypertransport. It was never a competing feature to Intel's Hyperthreading technology. AMD calls its Hyperthreading SMT on its Ryzen family CPU's which includes Epyc and Threadripper variants.
You have no idea what you are talking about. Most of the features you say are non-existent compared to Intel are Intel's marketing fluff features. The actual industry standard features are supported by BOTH company's offerings. More importantly, both Epyc and Xeon CPUs support the same instruction sets. The two CPU families are not always easily compared on a spec sheet, especially when you don't understand what you are looking at. Each CPU has a different architecture and a different platform. They take different approaches to achieving the same goals.
You are entirely incapable of answering your own questions. I've said it before: The CPU has nothing to do with the chassis. You buy a motherboard in the corresponding form factor to the case you want to use. That's it. The CPU has nothing to do with that.
Jesus fucking Christ. Cyrix has nothing to do with anything here. None of what you are thinking of from the 1990's has any relevance today. Again, you have no idea what you are looking at when looking at those spec pages. You need the actual white papers to compare them in that way and that shit is way over your head. All you need to know is that everything a Xeon can do, a Threadripper or Epyc CPU can do as well.
Unless you have electrical engineering degrees and design semi-conductors for a living, you will not ever fully understand the documentation for these CPU's. You also need to understand that not all of the information is made public. There is a public version of the white papers and a version that goes to motherboard partners, software developers etc. Some silicon on Intel CPU's is for specific customers and what that silicon does has never been made to the public.
Shut the fuck up about those processors. You can't afford Xeon Platinum 8180's or Xeon 9282's. Why the fuck do you keep bringing them up? You mentioned a $600 budget per processor. If you are having trouble with car payments, even chips like AMD's Threadripper 2990WX are likely off the table. Be realistic. You won't be buying a pair of Epyc 7601's either which aren't even ideal for your use anyway.
This is because your case isn't SWTX compatible. How hard is this to understand?
What the actual fuck? You are making less sense than usual here.
This illustrates my point about you needing to learn to write English at a basic level. What you have said here doesn't make sense. It isn't a coherent thought. When I read this, I think there are only two possibilities. 1.) You are on the spectrum for autism. 2.) You are high as fuck.
You are reading way too much into things that are irrelevant for your needs.
That pretty much sums up the thread...
No I don't think these product need to still have green or blue PCB, but AMD Ryzen Threadripper products are under Desktop products anyway on Newegg, so the clear or clearer destinction between desktop or gamer as it seems to have become let alone alone what I'm actually looking for being workstation isn't even being made and never is or was as should have been. Also, workstation products are usually thrown in with Desktop or Gamer based products as Desktop almost usually is now or Server let alone true workstation whether single processor or dual processor based.
Actually, yes I am looking for basic specifications listed on their respective product pages, which I know has very little information except if I wanted to read complex datasheets then that what I would do after I read the basic specifications on their respective product pages that seem to be non-existant product features on AMD's specification pages. You meaningless as if you actually design processors and actually spend hours reading the datasheet about the products too, which aparently you don't seem to and that seem to make me what you do actually do other than ridicule and speculate when comparing my consideration of AMD EPYC to Intel's Xeon Scalable let alone Xeon 2011v2 or V3 that was also considered or anything else AMD or Intel related considering you seem to be the most knowledgable person to respond to this thread.
I on the other hand much like many of you I'm sure have actually done have spent years trying to learn how to use all this computer stuff and getting certified wherever it may apply just to find out anything about it or what it's actually all for anyway. When basically the bigger the computer the more powerful it's computing capabilities are, but the bigger the computer the more power hungry the computer is and the more likely it seem like an oversized calculator or word processor except it literally can do much more than that especially with today modern computer of course.
I actualy would have like to become a computer engineer to just so I could have helped stear hardware developers to what I felt computers needed to be designed like, but I got talked out of it anyway once I finally actually did bring it up to the person that taught me UNIX/Linux Database Administration for the Computer Network Administration Option at the State College of Technology in Stark County Ohio when it's still probably possible for me to get at least a degree in Computer Engineering regardless of if I actually did learn anything while trying to at least learn how to program in the Assembly Programming language considering i did finish the book and wrote every sample program in the book to at least help identify the assembly code and help to understand it as well as tried to write at least a kernel somehow with the only code I code find aka or explanation as to what the actual kernel code looks like or how the creators came up with it despite it's relevancy.
Good great grand wonderful you still probably don't know and probably won't ever.
I know keyboard shortcuts, but Mac is wierd now that I'm using my Mac Book Pro at the moment considering My Dell Precision M6800 died in 2018 that I bought in 2016 and you know weird it is actually using command instead of ctrl to do the equivalent of Microsoft Windows based Personal Computers that essentially are the same as UNIX/LInux based computer escept the first ones VI was created on though. Also considering the Mac alternative to Alt-Tab is weird compared to other more normal Windows based PC ways of just freaking Alt-Tab for goodness sake or let alone 3d fip.
Tay, is that you?
No Dan_D not any of those and I'm done explaining to you or anyone in this thread or AMD fans who apparently are high on drugs themselves probably or definitely. Also, considering I should have closed this thread as soon as you or someone else said nobody in this thread has an AMD EPYC system except one person said they might attempt to do it to just to spite me, which I doubt they'll be able to pull it off either way if I can't or even if I'll still want too after this.