Best recommended AMD Processor for Lian-Li D8000 server cube build

Discussion in 'AMD Processors' started by scharfshutze009, Apr 24, 2019.

  1. scharfshutze009

    scharfshutze009 [H]ard|Gawd

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    What is the best AMD processor and board for a Lian-Li D8000 server cube build as an alternative to competing Intel solutions? I tried the Supermicro brand AMD H8QGI-F a quad AMD Opteron Socket motherboard, but the back plane wouldn't line up with the place for the I/O shield in the Lian-Li D8000 and ended up being a huge disappointment that I still haven't been able to successfully complete this build besides the other reason it's taking so long being the cost of all the parts desired. I found out that the Supermicro brand AMD H8QGI-F quad AMD Opteron Socket motherboard was actually intended for the Supermicro CSE-828TQ+-R1K43LPB chassis a 4U or 5U chassis, which is another reason for the disappointment and delay in completing the build because that's not what I had in mind for the build. I actually intend to complete this build as a newer technology computer for a mini mainframe or mini highend graphics workstation with a lot of internal storage being that the Lian-Li D8000 can support up to twenty two 3.5 inch hard drives and that currently hard drive capacity is available at up to 12 TB for each hard drive, even if they are mechanical or if I have to settle for a minimal of 1 TB if I go with SSHD's for the most affordable hybrid Solid State and combination mechanical storage option out there.

    I had the same problem with the Supermicro X10DAi-B motherboard, which is a dual Intel Xeon 2011v3 LGA socket board too because the backplane wouldn't line up right with the place for the I/O shield and there was a problem with the default spacer alightment too, which there didn't seem to be anything I could do about it without possibly ruining the removeable motherboard tray to modify the tray so that I could actually use this board instead of the Supermicro H8QGI-F AMD Opteron Socket motherboard either. One other thing noting is that all Xeon 2011v3 boards are also meant to support all Intel 2011v4 processors too, so going with at least a newer Supermicro branded solution if not some other motherboard brand like Gigabyte, ASUS, ASROCK, or Tyan is not even an option and is a little weird.

    Finally, any Intel Xeon Scalable socket 3647 motherboard solution and not the equivalent single processor solution being the Xeon W socket 3647 are also only manufactured by Supermicro and I didn't like that some of the security features were taken away with at least the lowest end Intel Xeon Scalable Bronze and Silver, even if Intel had to do it to get the prices down on these processors at around $200 to $300 for the Xeon Scalable Bronze and at $600 or slightly higher for the Xeon Scalable Silver, which is the best they can do and the best I can probable afford without taking longer to wait until I can afford the preferred Xeon Scalable Gold or Platinum processors that might still have all the security features I would still want and all the other features that make owning a Xeon Platform computer so great especially more system memory and higher graphics processing cababilities as well as other higherend processing capabilities. Other than that if I actually wanted to do this with AMD Epyc I don't know or haven't found the parts I might be able to do it with and Intel Itanium is out of the question because it's now only suited for highend server and not graphics workstation as well as has been said to be discontinued and have fewer cores than the highest end Xeon's now.

    I know this is a really ambitious consideration for a system built too, but when I sawy the case I couldn't think of a better idea for build than this either as a dual processor or quad processor build to replace my Supermicro SC850P4 server cube that was severly out dated from around the time of it's original release in around 2005 or so that used the P4QH8 or P4QH6 motherboard that I actualy could only find the P4QH6 motherboard, but couldn't find any retailer that would sell me the memory riser board so that I could actually install RAM into the computer and after trying to sell on ebay just ended up donating to the College I got my three associate degrees in Computer Network Administration out of after being ridiculed for even trying to sell it for a decent amount to make a reasonable amount back for how much I spent on it while even trying to restore the build or complete it either way considering I actually did just end up buying the SC850P4 chassis without realizing I could only use it for the P4QH8 or P4QH6 motherboard from Supermicro and not the P3DRIII from supermicro, which I actually need the SC830 for.
     
    Last edited: Apr 24, 2019
  2. Keljian

    Keljian Limp Gawd

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    What is your workload?
     
  3. bobzdar

    bobzdar [H]ard|Gawd

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    Yeah, I mean what are you trying to do with this thing? It almost sounds like you want dual or quad socket just to have dual or quad socket. If you're talking xeon silver, that's like an 8 core for $600. You can get a single socket 32 core 2990wx for $1600, so why get quad 8 cores that run slower per core and cost $800 more?
     
  4. scharfshutze009

    scharfshutze009 [H]ard|Gawd

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    No I don't want to have dual or quad processor system just to have one. I actually have or should have a legitimate reason for owning one now after completing my three associates in computer network administration for the CNAS-Information and Security Design(Should have been called the Microsoft Option considering that was the main focus), then the CNAS-(Cisco Certified Networking Associate or CCNA) Option, and then the UNIX/Linux-Database Administration Option(that included Oracle Intro to SQL Database Usage Learning and Oracle Architecture and Administration as well and more at Stark State College of Technology in Stark County Ohio where the Football Hall of Fame is. Now I stuck trying to pass the last same five classes I need to get a bachelors in CIS-Networking fhe equivalent of CNAS-CIsco Option for the CCNP (Cisco Certified Network Professional) focused program. If you don't know much about CIsco they are a major enterprise computer networking equipment provider besides Juniper and 3com, but Cisco equipement can be found for alot less in cost that Juniper especially if not 3com or maybe D-Link too at the least and that CCIE is the highest certification one can obtain in the CIsco certification for Cisco equipment support. Also, Cisco makes just about any major piece of network equipment, such as agrigation router and campus switches that only major college universities or internet service providers would need. Anyway I actually want to legitimate complete this build to help provide faster 3D render speed capabitlies or 3D capabilites in general considering this is more than enough processing power to help do it foo, but I just want one major computer to store or do it from with the help of some friends or relatives also interested in doing so and no matter what it's alot less expensive than an old $100,000 Silicon Graphics Onyx workstation or maybe just a $30,000 Silicon Graphics Indigo workstation that used to be alot more powerful than any Intel or AMD option.

    My major problem now still is financing the project and learning how to use everything needed to make it work especially the operating system most appropriate for it as well as finding a place to power all this equipment out of. When I need to get out of my apartment in Akron near the University of Akron I'm trying to get a bachelors in computer networking admistration for the Cisco Option focused on CCNP considering it hasn't been going so well anyway and that I've been out of Federal Student Aid for Loans since 2015 and only have 222% left in grant to continue my education below the graduate school level where I could get federal student aid back if I can get accepted into graduate school, so I can do whatever I want to learn what I really want to use this build for anyway that I actually want to try to make a really good video game that has really impressive graphics, but I'm also having a difficult time figuring out what I want to call the game or what I want it to be about and have been since I've wanted to do this since being honorable discharged from the US military in Feburary of 2001. I could go on and on too, but I'll say that it will almost have to use True OS or Free BSD to handle all 22 hard drives anyway unless Windows Server 2016 or Windows 10 will do just fine and that the BSD based True OS or FreeBSD will over complicate using such a machine and make using it alot more difficult. One last thing about is that I had actually placed the order for all the parts with paypal credit from or through newegg, but the order got declined for some reason and now I'm stuck with the Lian-Li D8000 chassis wtih just the Blu-ray/HD-DVD drives by LG and one BDXL burner as well as a memory card reader by Lian-Li, but no other parts needed to complete the build now as of my attempt in the summer of 2018.
     
  5. scharfshutze009

    scharfshutze009 [H]ard|Gawd

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    Workload. i haven't even started the workload yet. I'm still trying to complete the build and the most I've been able to successfully do is complite videos for my two youtube channels D Grossi 1999 dedicated to video game play as well as jokes or parodies and Dee Rigger dedicated to showing alot of my rare system builds that actually work, but are either still incomplete or the hardware optained for the oldest builds doesn't work completely anymore and I'm about to just donate those to the college I got my three Associates in Computer Network Administration Out of too just like the Supermicro SC850P4 I had trouble selling on ebay and tried to put a link too on hard forum to see if anyone was interested in buying for a reasonable amount considering the fatal loss always suffered with selling old hardware to people only interested in the latest and greatest modern hardware.
     
  6. Keljian

    Keljian Limp Gawd

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    Ack .. the wall of text is deafening.

    Could you please decrypt what you've said and tell me what you're trying to do, succinctly, rather than giving me your thesis?

    Give me points ... eg:
    I want to:
    • Encode video
    • Record video
    • Do Non Linear Video editing
    • Run multiple VMs
    • Simulate Cisco and Juniper hardware so I can learn how to use them
    • Use BSD and Linux in VMs
    • Create cat videos

    I don't need your life story.
     
  7. scharfshutze009

    scharfshutze009 [H]ard|Gawd

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    None of these things are what I'm trying to do actually. I might do some or a lot of video encoding on it, but I really want to complete it for high 3D rendering scenes when working with Bryce 3D or the latest version of Bryce 3D modeling software or True Space 3D.
     
  8. whateverer

    whateverer Gawd

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    That's the problem. You get his life story in every post. You can't turn it off.

    I just use the ignore button :D See ya, he's all yours.
     
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  9. bobzdar

    bobzdar [H]ard|Gawd

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    Get a 2990WX, Asus ROG zenith extreme alpha, enable PBO and Bryce 3d to your heart's content. It'll outperform a quad 8 core xeon and cost a lot less.
     
  10. Dan_D

    Dan_D [H]ardOCP Motherboard Editor

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    It sounds to me like you don't actually know what you are going to do with the system based off the first few walls of text. BTW, punctuation and sentence structure are important when writing a novel's worth of text on a forum.

    You really could have gone with this. Again, I second the 2990WX recommendation.
     
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  11. scharfshutze009

    scharfshutze009 [H]ard|Gawd

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    No I'm not interested in gaming hardware and you don't seem to know anything about server and workstation hardware considering you're referencing gaming hardware like ASUS ROG instead of Server/Workstation like Gigabyte boards under enterprise on their website considered Server/Workstation, then ASUS boards considered Server/Workstation like the Z10PE-D8 WS or Z10PE-D16 WS or newer Xeon Scalable boards, which I'm not sure what these are except maybe the ASUS Dominious Extreme, then ASROCK boards considered Server/Workstation, then Tyan boards considered Server/Workstation, and last resent Supermicro boards considered Server/Workstation, like the X9DAi, X10DAi, and X11DAi.

    Not gaming hardware that people on here always talk about and don't seem to know much if anything about Server/Workstation and only talk about Overclocking that severely lowers the life span of a computer from the best example I can use being my MSI big bang X-Power motherboard that the box states will last 40 years if not overclocked, but if overclocked the life span is reduced down to 10 years being a significant reduction in life span if true and either way I know even 10 percent overclock can kill hardware faster than no overclocking because I managed to do this with my Pentium III 1.0 GHz Platform computer around 2001, but was able to salvage everything except the Iwill VD133 motherboard that could not be saved from the reduction in life span. Sure your ROG zenith extreme recommendation will out perform a Xeon 8 core, which is not even true at all in my opinion because these true Server/Workstation boards can support from 256 GB, 512 GB, or 1 TB to maybe 1.5 TB of RAM and support the storage I need to work with for game development and other computer aided design I'm seeking.
     
  12. scharfshutze009

    scharfshutze009 [H]ard|Gawd

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    All I really want to know is if AMD Epyc would be better than Xeon 2011v2, Xeon 2011v3 or 2011v4 system builds, or a Xeon Scalabe build and if so where can I get AMD Epyc parts as well as if they are compatible with the Lian-Li D8000 because all these should, but for some reason there must be a design flaw with the this case preventing it from being completely compatible with Extended ATX boards aka EEB boards because that is what I'm trying to say was the problem I had.
     
  13. Keljian

    Keljian Limp Gawd

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    Last edited: Apr 27, 2019
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  14. alxlwson

    alxlwson You Know Where I Live

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    Threadripper isn't "gamer" stuff, btw.

    Not sure why I'm replying to this thread. One of the most rediculous things I've ever read.
     
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  15. scharfshutze009

    scharfshutze009 [H]ard|Gawd

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    No this is not what I was asking for help on, even if my description seems poor to you and I'm not trying to critize. However, when you recommend a gaming board for a server cube case it seems as though you don't seem to understand the problem I'm having or the reason that such a case exists in the first place that just so happens is not for a gaming motherboard that is ATX usually suited for single processor compatable motherboard sizes instead of Extended ATX motherboards suited for dual processor compatible motherboards and I just happened to mention one quad processor motherboard I tried that didn't work either that was an SWTX form factor instead of Entended ATX. If you think a gaming motherboard will suit my needs in today's modern world of game development or 3D graphic manipulation you don't seem to know much about working with complex graphics or large 3D virtual enviroments, even if they do need to be scaled down to run on lowerend hardware in the end anyway and if you do your recommendation of a gaming motherboard as well as other compatible hardware seems poor.

    Also, you still don't seem to understand the problem I'm having with choosing AMD or Intel and it's with the Lian-Li D8000 server cube chassis all along because I can't seem to find an Extended ATX motherboard with at least Dual Processor support considering I don't really need quad processor support anyway and the only reason I tried the Supermicro H8QGI-F quad AMD Opteron socket motherboard is because I wasn't sure why the Supermicro X10DAi dual Xeon 2011v3 socket moterboard that is also compatible with the Xeon 2011v4 processor wouldn't mount properly either, so my question or problem is this actually and that is what decent modern Dual processor socket board at least will mount in this chassis to allow me to complete my highest end workstation build without having to create a workstation server farm in giant data center?
     
  16. scharfshutze009

    scharfshutze009 [H]ard|Gawd

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    Yes it is mostly and if you don't think so you clearly don't understand the purpose for Xeon and Eypc or Opteron that came from AMD prior to Eypc. Also, you don't seem to understand the purpose for intel Itanium either being for highend server either and think AMD was the first to come out with a 64-bit processor when it was actually intel who did with the Itanium, but Itanium had no 32-bit backwards compatibility and programmers didn't want to reprogram their old 32-bit or older bit program for Intel's newer exclusive EPIC (Epicitely Parrallel Instruction Set) found in Itanium that before 1999 the entire computer industry was referring to as IA-64 and when I finally realized most of this too the other inhibiting factor as to why Itanium was never excepted or made available for the desktop or end home user is that it's really expensive and not designed in an affordable package for them either and if doesn't even seem to have after market boards if any with graphic card expansion capabilities as far as I can tell after checking over and over for years from any manufacturer that might make such a thing.

    Therefore, that is why AMD got the credit for the first true affordable 64-bit processor that intel was still only able to get right before AMD when intel created EMT64 (Extended Memory 64-bit Technology) instead of what AMD did with the Athlon 64 originally, which was just put a 32-bit core in with a 64-bit core from what I remember reading on Toms hardware that actually put as that they had put a 32-bit processor in with a 64-bit processor on the same chip that if I could find the artical from that far back I show you the reference I mean to this and why you as well as most of you on this forum piss me off because you don't seem to read carefully enough or don't seem to think I know what I'm talking about and I've been alive since 1980 exactly, even if some of you might have been around longer and I've seen alot of this computer hardware come and go as well as change just like alot of you that may have been around just as long if not longer. Sorry for the walls of text too in my original posts or replies to, but it's not exactly easy having to manually break up possible paragraphs either and manually tab the beginning of each possible paragraph either consider a modern word processing program, such as Microsoft Word or Libre Writer or Open Office Writer does it for you and thank god I don't have to go back to the aweful days of manually having to kern letters or text like in Lotus Word 1997, which basically meant the user had to manually adjust the spacing of each letter on the screen before printing or after printing just to get it to appear correctly on the screen and paper.
     
  17. Dan_D

    Dan_D [H]ardOCP Motherboard Editor

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    I don't know why I'm bothering with this but.............

    I don't think you know what you are talking about. You are also going off on tangents not related to your problem.

    First off, this is nearly incoherent rambling. Please use some damn punctuation. This crap is hard to read. Secondly, I absolutely know why such a case exists and the case you mentioned isn't just for "server" boards. Specifically it supports a variety of motherboard form factors.

    upload_2019-4-27_11-8-59.png

    E-ATX, ATX and Micro-ATX are all form factors commonly associated with "gaming" motherboards as you so put it. E-ATX is used quite a bit for workstation motherboards as well. Cases like the one you mentioned aren't just for server hardware. You could argue its not a proper server case either. So I'd get off your high horse with this one. Lian-Li is primarily known for gaming and enthusiast cases and similar offerings exist which are rarely used for server builds.

    Ugh, how about you read the compatibility list for your case and the motherboards you spend money on? SWTX isn't supported by the Lian-Li PC8000 chassis. And let's get another thing straight, Threadripper isn't gaming hardware. If you think it is, you don't know what you are talking about. The HEDT market space fills a gap between enthusiast / gaming hardware and workstation / prosumer hardware. Its a realm that splits the difference between recreational and professional tasks. You gave a very poor description of what the system would be used for. When asked about what workloads you were going to be using with it and your answer didn't make any sense.

    You need to read the description of a motherboard and check the form factor before buying on or installing it. Or, you need to find a different chassis for the motherboard you want to use. Why is this so difficult to understand? I do understand why your having trouble choosing AMD or Intel, but all you do is give flak when the question was answered. You were shown a link above, and if that doesn't help you answer the question I don't know what will. You could also simply make a decision based on price, motherboards available in a specific form factor or look at benchmarks for the applications you want to use and then choose what works best for those tasks. You know, the same steps everyone who builds systems generally uses to decide what hardware to buy.

    After two decades in the IT industry and actually working with these things, I do know what those processors are used for. From the way your posts read, I think most of the people who have replied to this thread understand the purpose of such hardware better than you do. Again, your poorly written posts about what you want to do with this hardware haven't convinced anyone that you know what you need, nor that you need Xeons or Epyc CPUs of any kind. I have zero confidence you would know how to use it either. If you did, you would be able to select a compatible motherboard based on your case's form factor. Your posts are mostly incoherent rambling about unrelated topics. You add needless personal stories and bad history lessons into your posts which again, don't contribute to the topic at hand.

    This is a perfect example of what I'm talking about. How the hell does an incorrect and barely coherent history lesson about x86-64 and IA-64 have anything to do with you building a system?

    More incoherent rambling. You should also fact check your posts before going off on a tangent about history. There is so much wrong in the post above, I won't even address it because it has nothing to do with what you were asking for.

    It sounds to me like you bought that case and are doing mental gymnastics to try and justify filling it with expensive server hardware. Again, the case you are talking about isn't necessarily specific to server hardware. If it were, it wouldn't support such a variety of form factors.
     
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  18. scharfshutze009

    scharfshutze009 [H]ard|Gawd

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    Thredder Ripper is just a code name or another name for Ryzen a highend mostly gaming based designed CPU and yes anyone could use if for Workstation or Server, but it's just not a true workstation or server processor for modern computers in my opinion or what I saw as Ryzen is just a competing processor from AMD to compete with the Core i9 also mostly suited for the same purpose compared to Xeon and Epyc or Opeteron prior to this and of Itamium fits in there when referring to at least server because as I meantened it is designed for highend server and I even spook to HP themselves who told me the true purpose of Itanium or it's intended use for modern computing.

    X86-64 is just another name for AMD64 or EMT64 or IA-64 with or without IA-32 aka x86 backwards compatibility with 32-bit support if not older bit procesing support to allow compatibility with older computer programs. IA-64 got mentioned because Itanium could be an option for this chassis if such a compatible board did exist, but it doesn't. I knew what this case was compatible with at the time that I bought it, but Lian-Li discontinued it and support for it basically when it removed the specifications and information about the chassis from it's website along with the retailer I bought it from being newegg that I previously bought the Lian-Li 343B case from that only supported ATX boards instead Extended ATX needed for dual processor compatible motherboards. I bought this this chassis hoping to build a more recent dual processor workstation build with a compatible server/workstation motherboard after finding out that the Supermicro SC850 I had couldn't be completed because the memory riser card couldn't be found from retailer who would sell it to me and the Intel Xeon Socket 603 or 604 processors compatible with the Supermicro P4QH6 or P4QH8 couldn't be found either and I guess I just should have waited until they were on ebay where I found most of the parts compatible with the chassis these parts were intended for the very start of what influenced this newer build the Supermicro SC850P4 server cube chassis.

    You might know what the chassis is for, but don't seem to understand that I have no desire or interest in using Desktop gaming level hardware such Ryzen Threadripper in this and never did because if I did I would have asked about it or mentioned it instead of Opteron or Epyc in the first place, even as good as Ryzen Threadripper might be considering it might be one of the best AMD processors offered yet to compete with the Intel Core i9 if not the lower Core i-Series processors like the Core i7 if definitely not the lower Core i-Series processors. The Supermicro H8QGi-F an SWTX form factor board was measured for before purchasing, but the specifications for the chassis to be sure it was compatible could not be found around the time that the motherboard could finally be purchased or chosen.

    I've known for years what I've wanted to do with this chassis or one like it, but it either didn't exist or it took until around the last 5 to 8 years to find such a thing that existed yet or that could be found too especially after dealing with the Supermicro SC850P4. The advantage of this Lian-Li chassis seems to be the possibility of watercooling most of the components unlike with the Supermicro SC850P4 chassis, but finding those is going to be difficult and expensive just to keep the thing running cool enough, so that the computer doesn't catch on fire under a heavy workload that I haven't even been able to start yet mostly as you keep asking what my workload is, which I can't even answer because I've never done a workload that required a system like this considering I haven't even been able to get a system like this built before and the last time I tried to use Bryce it was on an extremely lowend computer compared to the modern computers from this time being and IBM aptiva with an AMD K6 233 MHz CPU and a 1 MB onboard ATI Rage II that took forever or so long just to render one still scene that it couldn't even move the scene completely rendered in real-time anyway, which was hope painful it was to even try to just animate in 3D with Bryce 3D at the time.

    If Byrce 3D would still work in a modern computer it was a very good program, but that IBM aptiva with the AMD K6 233 MHz CPU as well as other hardware was so slow that I could barely get anything done as good as some of the best game developers from then or now anyway and I had almost no programming experience in any useful programming language at all expecially C or C++ and definitely didn't have any experience with programming in a API like OpenGL or Direct X yet and still don't have eperience with programming in a graphics API yet. I have a book on programming with OpenGL version 3, but now Vulkan is the standard for the Open Source Linux/UNIX community and programmers who preferred OpenGL prior to it instead of Direct X.

    I haven't even been able to start using my newer 3D modeling program again called True Space 3 because everytime I try I get interrupted by someone or something and I haven't had the chance to install or use it, since my Pentium III Coppermine Platform computer around 2001 that used an Abit ST6-RAID motherboard. I ran out of hard drive space too before I can even try to get anything done related to any possible game development on my computers doing normal things like trying to write or revise a resume just to pay for all this computer equipment and keep it working too. Otherwise, I guess I've wasted my time playing other game developers game just to help me come up with an idea of what I would want my game to be about or how it should work or what it should be about too. When my main problem now seems to be that I just didn't go to college when I finally did for game development and 3D animation, like I should have just to learn how to do this properly and let a company build and design a computer for me that never can seem to find a company that can do this for me without it costing around $100,000 to $250,000 like Silicon Graphics that doesn't even make computers this size anymore and now realize on server farms for this purpose that I would need a datacenter for when I'm trying to do this on a smaller scale.

    However, starting small is harder when older hardware is hard to find and less likely to still work as well as have at least a motherboard that still costed around $500 on ebay from the seller for a 486 Platform Socket 3 system for at best for a Pentium 83 MHz Overdrive processor making it worse than the IBM Aptiva from 1997 that I just ended up donating to the College I graduated from in 2013 with my associate degrees and the Pentium MMX Platform also attempted that I still have. Everyone tells me to start small to in regards to this and it seems harder on a lower powered processing system anyway because these systems are so slow and have so many problems just working anyway when try to work with them just to see what it was like using them in first place. Incoherent rambiling or not if you insist that it is.

    Also, Ryzen Threadripper is not even under Server/Workstation processors on newegg that has the best organized product descriptions of any retailer anyway that has the Ryzen Threadripper under Desktop, which basically is gaming and not Server/Workstation let alone true Server/Workstation as well, even if Ryzen Threadripper can be used for Workstation purposes especially a decent graphics Workstation it's truely needed for when manipulating graphics. If you say this doesn't even matter I disagree too, even if you can get it to what you need for this purpose because it's not a true workstation component and that is also the frustration I have too with getting what I need done because I get poor recommendation on hardware for what I really need from gamers or people who claim they can get what they need done with gaming hardware instead of true Workstation hardware, which I do have considering I have a system with a single Intel 2011v2 1650v2 using a gigabyte 6PVS4 and two Dell Precision T1700's using Intel Xeon E3 1225v3 processors as well as decent modern Nvidia graphics cards.

    I can't help it that much that this build has been the most difficult one I've had completing either considering all the problems I've had with even trying to complete it now that I should have been able to complete it in 2018, but couldn't because of order processing complications that caused most of the part orders to be declined in the process.
     
  19. Dan_D

    Dan_D [H]ardOCP Motherboard Editor

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    Threadripper is derrived from Epyc. It isn't designed "mostly" for gaming. Again, the HEDT market, which Intel started are products that cover the gap between high end enthusiast and prosumer hardware. End of story. Itanium is totally fucking irrelevant in this context. Why are you even bringing that up? Are you looking to buy an Itanium processor or build an Itanium based system? No? Then stop talking about Itanium processors. They have nothing to do with the discussion at hand. You are rambling again.

    You are wrong. EM64T was what Intel called its iteration of x86-64 which is a specification AMD created. IA-64 is and was always used to denote Itanium which had no provisions for running 32bit software natively. At the time, 32bit software was extremely prevalent. Intel tried to remedy the lack of versatility with these CPU's by running legacy code through emulation. This didn't work very well. This relegated the CPU to a specific niche which they did very well but ultimately, its lack of versatility is why it didn't succeed in the market. Again, this is irrelevant because nothing you mentioned for use would be served well by Itanium and its basically a dead end platform. Who cares?

    Itanium is NOT an option for running 3D modeling and rendering software. Again, the IA-64 architecture is irrelevant.

    I understand you have no interest in using desktop or gaming hardware. However, that doesn't mean that your usage scenario would be best served by dual processor Xeon or Epyc based systems. You still haven't been expressly clear about what you intend to do with the system. Threadripper isn't expressly used as gaming hardware. You need to understand that HEDT isn't the same thing as main stream gaming hardware. Its the same basic platform and design as Epyc. If you knew jack shit about Epyc's architecture, you'd understand that. The processor has been modified to make it more appealing to the high end desktop market, but that doesn't mean its a gaming part. I it were, it wouldn't be designed the way it is. Its a product designed to target a specific market that both plays games and uses their machines or productivity tasks such as 3D modeling, rendering, encoding and other professional applications.

    Also, you don't need to measure motherboards for cases. Its about the form factor being correct and the I/O panel and screw holes lining up with what's provisioned in the chassis. This isn't difficult to understand. If you buy an E-ATX motherboard for a case that's designed to support E-ATX motherboards, it will work. It isn't rocket science.

    Again, it sounds like you just want to build some cube shaped server and then do XYZ on it. You can do that, its your money but that doesn't mean its a good idea. I keep asking about the workload because you typically want to build a system to match the tasks being performed on it, not the other way around. If you build a dual-processor Xeon or Epyc based system, that will determine the kind of hardware that you can use with that system. Consumer graphics cards and storage devices may not work properly with it and vice versa. So the workloads and usage do need to be narrowed down in order to build a system using the appropriate hardware for the job. The type of OSes you can run also factor in given that licensing changes as you add CPU sockets and that sort of thing. You can run Bryce, 3D Studio Max, Lightwave, Maya and other 3D rendering and modeling applications on Threadripper based systems. The 2990WX would make sense here from a performance / price standpoint. Sure, you might be able to leverage more for rendering, but if this isn't your job, it may not make sense to spend three times more on a system that won't be three times better for the task at hand.

    If you don't know what the workload is, then you have no idea what kind of hardware you need. Why can't you understand this concept? This is the core problem of this thread. Anytime you ask someone what kind of hardware they recommend, the first thing they will do is ask what the system will be used for. It is the answer to this question that shapes our response in terms of the hardware we would recommend to you. Its that simple. If you tell me all you will ever do is check E-Mail and browse the web, I will tell you to buy a tablet and go away. If you want to play games and only games, I'll tell you to buy a Core i5 9600K or 9900K with a RTX 2080Ti and call it a day. Its the same as asking me how to build a server infrastructure for a small office or a fortune 500 company. The answers to those questions are very different and what those companies need to do drastically alters my answers.

    Irrelevant babbling. None of the above is remotely pertinent to the discussion.


    More rambling.

    Irrelevant drivel.

    What the fuck? I only understood part of this, so I'll respond to that and disregard the rest. You do need to start small. It doesn't remotely sound like you have any idea what the hell you are doing with 3D modeling software. You absolutely should start small before investing 10's of thousands of dollars into a system that you'll be paying off for several years from the sound of things.

    Newegg categorization is irrelevant. Again, HEDT processors and hardware splits the difference between prosumer and high end gaming hardware. Threadripper has more in common with Epyc than Ryzen 2xxx series CPU's. The underlying architecture of Threadripper and Epyc is the same. What you are also talking about in terms of 3D rendering / modeling is more of a workstation than a server task. There are Threadripper motherboards which aren't expressly designed for gaming. From the sound of things, it doesn't sound like you know the difference between server and workstation hardware as you seem to lump them together. They are quite different. No one is saying you should use gaming hardware for 3D modeling and rendering.

    More rambling.

    This build is difficult because you don't know what you are doing. It sounds like you've never built hardware for 3D Modeling and Rendering. You don't seem to know what HEDT systems are, nor what the difference between workstation and server hardware is. You don't seem to know what your workloads are going to be like. You have preconceived notions in your head about what you want and can't even communicate your needs all that well. You won't get the right recommendations from us without knowing what you will be doing with the system, providing a budget, and asking the right questions in a clear and concise manner. Until you do, we are just going to keep going back and fourth.

    Please, no more responses talking about K6's, IBM Aptiva's, or any other irrelevant drivel. We need to know precisely what you are going to use the system for and how much money you have to spend on the build. That's it. We don't need personal history lessons, talk about one computer science course you took back in the 1980's or any other unrelated nonsense.
     
    Last edited: Apr 27, 2019
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  20. evt

    evt Limp Gawd

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    This is why we love you Dan_D!
     
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  21. elite.mafia

    elite.mafia Broke Back [H]

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    Wow. This thread is seriously something else. What in the world is going on.
     
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  22. Keljian

    Keljian Limp Gawd

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    I've had an epiphany.

    Essentially he wants a dual socket motherboard. Cause 20 years ago that was the way a workstation was set up. These days HEDT and workstation are synonymous and dual socket isn't really required, even for Bryce. Server boards typically don't have much in the way of pci-e slots, it's all integrated these days, as opposed to then when everything was on a card.

    Bryce is the most intensive software he's stated he's going to use. Here they say that a modern desktop system will competently run it. Doesn't even have to be anything special as the lowest range i3 will exceed the requirements.

    Having done some research (I was bored), I found that Iray is accelerated by Nvidia cards.

    So really what we're looking for here, to create the fastest Bryce machine, is a computer that can handle a number of CUDA cards. It also appears, based on the same page, that a machine with lots of cores makes a difference. So.. this lead me on another journey https://www.cgdirector.com/best-cpu-for-rendering/

    Which unequivocally points to the the threadripper 2990WX as the chip to get for this. I decided to do some digging into threadripper motherboards, realising that designers typically use a lot of IO.. and came up with this: https://www.gigabyte.com/au/Motherboard/X399-DESIGNARE-EX-rev-10#kf (which ironically Dan_D is running!)



    I then took a minute, and thought ok well he wants to throw money at this thing...

    And came up with this : https://www.supermicro.com/Aplus/motherboard/EPYC7000/H11DSi-NT.cfm

    But .. it can only handle 2 graphics cards.. So it goes back to what his requirements are.

    So I looked into the epyc processors and found a 7601 which has 32 cores ($4600 thankyou very much)

    In contrast to a threadripper which is about $1700, and runs faster (4.2ghz turbo vs 3.2ghz turbo) and still has 32 cores.

    Which flips me back to the Threadripper/Designare conclusion, cause there's no way in hell I'd be buying the epyc system, generally speaking, with the price difference. I think I'd spend the extra on graphics cards to suit. (probably RTX Titans)

    I think at this stage, that's about as close as we can get to what OP really wants.
     
    Last edited: Apr 27, 2019
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  23. elite.mafia

    elite.mafia Broke Back [H]

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    I think that board can actually do 5 GPUs. Might need a riser / extension cable though.

    Expansion Slots
    [​IMG]
    PCI-Express
    • 3 PCI-E 3.0 x8
    • 2 PCI-E 3.0 x16
     
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  24. Dan_D

    Dan_D [H]ardOCP Motherboard Editor

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    The X399 Designare EX is a great example of what I was talking about. The Designare line is designed for content creators and not gaming. But like all HEDT hardware, it can do either if desired.

    Nice work on looking up Bryce. I used to support applications like that, but it's been years since I looked at that one.
     
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  25. scharfshutze009

    scharfshutze009 [H]ard|Gawd

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    I know what I'm doing I just couldn't find the specs anymore to figure out what form factor the board supported though. I knew it had to at least support an EATX board like the Supermicro X10DAi I also tried, but for some reason the chassis caused problems with mounting it. As for the Supermicro H8QGI-F a quad processor SWTX form factor I had to try it again because the retailer sent it back, even when I was sure it wasn't compatible. I only tried to actually mount it just to be sure considering the Lian-Li is actually about the same size as the Supermicro SC850P4 used for Supermicro's P4QH6 or P4QH8 Xeon 603 or 604 quad processor socket motherboards without realizing that the Lian-Li D8000 is actually a little weird becuase it has a removable motherboard tray and has two places for two power supplies, but it doesn't even allow or have the capability to support redundant power supplies like the Supermicro SC850P4 that supported triple redundant 350 watt power supplies and was due for an update in design years ago to allow something like what the Lian-Li D8000 would allow for more modern 2011, Scalable, and Epyc compatibility with it allows with compatible Dual socket versions of motherboards supporting these processors compared to the SC850 or SC850P4 that only allowed for much older Xeon Slot 2 or Xeon 603 or 604 processors that yes Supermicro has basically abandoned pedestial server designs in favor of rackmountable servers that would support this along with graphics cards with enough processing power to render today's modern games, like Doom 2016, Wolfenstein New World Order, or Rage and newer.

    My point is this like I said I keep getting interrupted anyway when trying to focus on putting my newest 3D modeling program True Space 3 on my newest machine and on top of that I actually have to find the installation disc. You're right too about 3D studio Maxx, which I could use too except I don't know where to get it and I've heard of it too except I don't know if I could afford it. I installed blender in Ubuntu Desktop 64-bit and I don't understand it like I remember Bryce and True Space 3 either, which I still never mastered Bryce or True Space 3 anyway and I have a hard time finding time to use them because I'll forget to look for them just to try and find time to try to learn to use them after all these years on hardware actually capable of rendering 3D scenes without taking a terribly long time.

    If I started small I'd have to make something like Minecraft and I'm not that good or never would have thought of something that creative for a game that whoever game up with that game it is and was brilliant considering the graphics aren't even that great compared to something modern like Rage, Doom 2016 or Wolfenstein New World Order or even Duke Nukem Forever that used a pretty recent version of the Unreal Engine regardless if Duke Nukem Forever wasn't that great of a game according to gamers that probably pirated it unlike me who actually bought the collectors edition and bought it on steam too.

    I don't just want to game either or else I wouldn't have tried to actually create or build that last workstation I build off the Intel Xeon 2011v2 1650v2 using the Gigabyte 6PVS4 that supports up to 256 GB of DDR3 ECC memory, which is a lot of memory considering I only actually have 32 GB of Wintec ECC and runs fine except I'm out of hard drive space using both 2 TB Seagate SSHD's in RAID 1 and the Lian-Li A71F can support up to 10 hard drives. My biggest problem is with saving money though considering how far I've tried to go in my Computer Networking Administration Program at both schools I've attended and I can't start over either in what I should have started in if I actually wanted to seriously consider Computer Animation and 3D modeling as a College Degree instead of what I felt would be more useful that pursued instead being Computer Network Administraion because some people kept telling me game developers don't make that much money. Other than that I was considering Computer Engineering to find out how to make my own computer parts, which would have been alot harder and would have steered me away for even needing this or wanting to build this to actually try to make a video game.

    The main point of this is also being that how can I even develop a game like Rage that apparently used 16 TB of space on id softwares servers uncompressed before being published and released when it was too considering I did say that the Lian-Li could have up to 22 hard drives allowing up to 22 TB using at least the twenty two 1 TB Seagate SSHD's I tried to order, but where declined with the rest of the parts needed with the order to complete the build. The only way I could do better is to design and assembe several servers using workstation/server motherboards and parts capable of using non low profile cards that would have to be at least 3U to 4U or maybe up to 5U for a server farm and open a data center for them to allow playing it over a cloud, like some games.

    Maybe I don't know what HDET is, but I know how terribly slow my older computers were at just normal things and attempting to use just for more modern gaming though. I also know that the Pentium 4 build I tried to complete never got the Ultra 320 SCSI hard drive it could have supported with the right RAID card considering it had a Supermicro P4SCT+II motherboard and PCI-X slots. Then the Intel Core 2 system I build in 2008 to actually replace it that had the Cooler Master STC-101 stacker chassis never got completed either because it never got the amount of hard drives it needed and it I'm pretty sure I choose an ASUS P6T-WS motherboard before upgrading to the ASUS Rampage Formula for gaming and selling those parts from the previous Core 2 build.

    How do you expect me to understand AMD's processor architecture when AMD does a terrible job of explaining their processor designs and features compared to Intel too.

    By the way the other possible form factor HPTX is harder to find for multi processor support if desired, which it is in this case and true workstation/server support is desired too considering how slow my previous builds are now or where then for what they got used for anyway.

    Finally, yes now I see how much more you now about Intel's Itanium than I remember from early and present Itanium articles or talks too and I only mention it because modern Itanium support should have gotten better, but it either didn't or it's just for high end server now and not a viable option for 3D modeling as well as animation as it never was anyway too like I was wondering if it ever would and it didn't.
     
  26. Keljian

    Keljian Limp Gawd

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    Another wall of text. You want to save money, you want to develop a game like rage, solo.

    The advised hardware will do what you want, in fact it probably will do more.
     
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  27. gigaxtreme1

    gigaxtreme1 2[H]4U

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    Run on sentences, common spelling or diction mistakes and lack of emotional reaction makes it sound like a bot. Interesting.
    Edit-Sorry, OT and OP
     
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  28. Keljian

    Keljian Limp Gawd

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    AMD does not do a terrible job of explaining their designs. You're just not looking hard enough.

    You're also trying to get storage (22 TB?) and Workstation in the same box, which is the wrong way to go about it. You need NAS and fast networking for this.

    Let's break it down for you

    a. You want to run bryce
    b. you want to run truespace 3d
    c. you want to program.

    Truespace is discontinued as of 2010, so clearly you are not up with the times (that was nearly 10 years ago)

    Bryce likes processor cores, and nvidia cards.

    Programming likes lots of cores, and can be adequately managed on 16 gig of ram, 32 tops.

    It sounds like you do not know enough about how to program, or do 3d design based on

    A computer is a tool, it cannot do the learning required for you to design games, or do animation, or do modelling, or program.

    It's like trying to say "give me an Formula 1 car and I'll learn how to drive it" - if you're lucky, you may be able to drive it around the track at a sedate pace, but to get the most out of it, you need study, training and many years of experience. id Software has 200 employees, you are one person. At least 80-90 employees would have been involved in building the games you're talking about, all have different skills, training and experience. I'm not saying you can't do it, others have, it will however take you years to accomplish what they can in months.


    In all honesty, truth and fairness, I think you'd be best served with a high end desktop system, something like either a ryzen 2700x or a i9-9900k, with 32/64 gig of ram, and some reasonably fast nvme drives. They may not be HEDT chips, but they are extremely capable in comparison to stuff that is 10-11 years old.

    I say this as I program microcontrollers, do (auto)CAD rendering of products for work, even a spot of video NLE using davinci. A 9700k is ample for my needs, a 9900k would be icing on the cake, but would not really contribute much to what I do. When a compile takes 10-20 seconds, shaving a few seconds off is not going to appreciably contribute to the speed of work.

    For the record this is my main desktop setup:
    • i7-9700k
    • Gigabyte Z390 Aorus Ultra
    • 32 Gig Gskill trident (mixed 3200~) ram
    • Zotac 1080ti Amp extreme
    • 500 gb Samsung 850 evo
    • 500 gb Samsung 970 evo plus
    • 500 gb seagate sshd (for slow storage)
    • 32 gb optane (currently used as a swap file drive)
    The system above runs games fine, and does what I need to do, also much cheaper than a TR system.

    I have a ZFS Nas of about 12 TB which I use for backups/extra storage as necessary.

    When my needs outgrow my computer, I will be earning enough to buy more. But I don't see that happening for the foreseeable future, or at least before my usual upgrade schedule of about 5 years or so.
     
    Last edited: Apr 28, 2019
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  29. Dan_D

    Dan_D [H]ardOCP Motherboard Editor

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    It took me about five seconds on Google to find out what the specs were on that case.

    Incoherent rambling.

    You do not need scalable architectures for what you are doing. It would be a waste of money to build a dual processor system when you have AMD's Threadripper 2990WX as an option.

    Like I said, something is really wrong if you've lost your focus on something for a decade. Again, your newest program is about 9 years old. 3D Studio Max can be purchased from a variety of sources. If you think you can afford dual processor boards and CPU's costing thousands of dollars each, you should be able to afford a copy of 3D Studio Max.

    Developing a game title isn't something you can do by yourself. It takes teams of developers years to make these larger AAA titles. I don't care how much hardware you buy, you can't change that.

    Irrelevant.

    This has nothing to do with anything. I told you, we do not need the history of hardware you've bought in the past that has nothing to do with the build you are trying to do now. DDR3 RAM has no bearing on this current build so why do you constantly bring this shit up?

    I'm getting the sense that saving money and spending too much money on crap you don't need is a recurring theme here.

    You need training in video game development. That much is certain. I wouldn't attempt a build as high end as you are wanting without knowing my craft and knowing precisely what I need. The rest of the above run on sentence isn't pertinent to the discussion.

    You do not have a clue how to accomplish this task.

    You got declined? Here is a hint on how to do things: If you have the money for something, you won't get declined when ordering it. Credit card limit reached? Financing wasn't approved? You should stop right there. You need to get your priorities straight. You shouldn't be bankrupting yourself or going into enough debt to buy a car just to build a system that's overkill for a task you don't fully understand. How about you build a reasonable machine and go back to school for computer animation training? That way you can learn the software, learn what's being used in the industry and get access to student pricing on those applications which is far more cost effective than buying the software with a commercial license.

    What the fuck does this even mean?

    There is no maybe about it. An HEDT (High End Desktop) is comprised of hardware which is derived from server and workstation hardware. The X299 and X399 chipsets are similar to their workstation and server counterparts. The underlying architecture of an LGA 2066 Intel CPU is the same as the Xeon. The architecture of Threadripper is the SAME as Epyc. The Threadripper 2990WX processor your so fond of calling gaming hardware isn't gaming hardware. AMD's marketing stuff talks about most Threadripper chips as being for enthusiasts and gamers, and that talk stops at the 2990WX. The "W" in the name literally means "workstation". That's straight from AMD. That's a processor with 32 cores and 64 threads. Motherboards like MSI's X399 MEG Creation or GIGABYTE's X399 Designare EX are designed for content creators who do 3D modeling and computer animation or video editing. The target market for allot of HEDT hardware are people who want to do the things you are talking about.

    Your talk of older machines is irrelevant.

    This has nothing to do with anything in this thread.

    tenor.gif

    The information is out there. Its available on this forum and various websites. We also have articles on HardOCP.com covering these CPU's. AMD's own website isn't that bad at explaining things either. Again, the underlying architecture is identical to Epyc. Epyc has advantages, but frankly, I don't think they'll benefit you enough to justify the cost over a Threadripper 2990WX based system.

    You need to re-educate yourself on what a workstation is. Servers and workstations are NOT the same. Your previous builds are irrelevant once again. You seem to be under the impression that some dual processor system is going to be faster for your needs and that's not necessarily true. Applications do often like cores yes, but they also benefit from clock speed. HEDT and workstation hardware tends to out clock server hardware. They also have I/O that's more appropriate for your needs. They allow the use of GPUs for acceleration of 3D modeling and rendering. Servers generally won't have provisions for things like that.

    Forget about HPTX. You don't need it. The case you are so in love with doesn't support it anyway.

    Totally fucking irrelevant. Itanium isn't, wasn't, and never should have been covered in this thread.
     
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  30. bobzdar

    bobzdar [H]ard|Gawd

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    Dude, you described a workstation use case, not a server one. I did not specify a 'gamer' board, I specified the very best threadripper board, which has suitable vrm for running a 2990wx (guess what the w stands for) at it's absolute maximum. It will outperform the xeons you mentioned for less money and fit in your stupid case to boot.

    There is zero reason to get dual or quad sockets for running 3d rendering, especially when threadripper basically packs 4 8 core cpus neatly in a single socket.

    If you want to spend more money for server hardware to run workstation tasks at a slower speed, go for it, but it won't make you smart, especially when you say you have a budget you have to fit in.
     
    Last edited: Apr 28, 2019
  31. rakslice

    rakslice n00b

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    If you read back one of your 200-word paragraphs with only two sentence boundaries, does it seem acceptably well-written to you? I don't know what kind of situation you have that is leading you to write like this, but I think that, whatever it is, it warrants taking a break and getting whatever help you need to solve that. I hope this is constructive.
     
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  32. pendragon1

    pendragon1 [H]ardForum Junkie

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    lol really saved that first post eh!?
    now ill...
    200.gif
     
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  33. alxlwson

    alxlwson You Know Where I Live

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    Been a long time saved!
     
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  34. scharfshutze009

    scharfshutze009 [H]ard|Gawd

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    What we're you expecting a professionally or exceptionally academically written report or essay typed in Microsoft Word with help from spell correction and grammer correction as well as indented too, which is not even possible to do while typing in to a reply box on a forum especially this one and grammerly usually messed me up with grammer correction anyway when it was installed too. Anyway I think I'm done explaining myself or the problem because none of you get the picture anyway because I do not want or need gaming hardware and it will not do for job I've been waiting for hardware like the modern recent hardware to come along to help handle the job or measure up about the same and actually better now that it's available than past extremely expensive workstations that are clearly out of my price range.

    My problem is not just with hardware availability it's also with affordabilitly and just learning how to use it properly too just to get it to do what it's supposed to do and designed to do, but thank you for any suggestions. However, none of you seem to get it that Highend desktop processors like Ryzen or Core i9 still weren't meant for true workstation tasks, even if they can handle it quite well or can be overclock that I care nothing about because I just want my computer to work and not crash or catch on fire from running to hot or being improperly wired like what was possible to accidentally do with really old desktop computers or from improperly installing addon cards like some users might do by forcing it in an expansion slot.

    I know most of my explaination on here might seem or actually be run on sentences too, but as I said there is not much I can do about it and I'm not an English major student or graduate because if I was I wouldn't even know as much about using computers or assembling my own computer builds from parts I had to carefully select and make sure are compatible when sometimes they aren't always compatible regardless if they should be. I say this because most articles about computer problem solutions don't seem well tested or clearly thought by the person who writes them if they are just written by english majors or they are intentionally spam answers, which are the worst way to get advise for help on computer problem.

    I don't know why you people always say wall of test when sometime or most of the time I will remember to try and break up the long block of text into paragraphs as best as I can and yes I do know that about 5 sentences is usually a paragraph or that a new paragraph is usually a change in topic or subject. Also, finally this is not a bot either whoever said that and if it was you should easilly be able to tell.

    One last thing AMD most certainly does do a terrible job of explaining their products that they just get ideas from Intel products for in my opinion because they can't seem to just make a simple specification webpage like Intel to give simplier explainations of their products and I don't think they even have data sheets explaining their products either like Intel. All I can honestly say is that AMD has always still been the only major CPU manufacture company anywhere close enough to be as good as Intel because their motherboards for Epyc still only support about half as much as Intel's Xeon Scalable motherboards from the best motherboard manufacturer and only motherboard manufacturer that I see still makes the best boards for both CPU manufacturing companies, which that company is Supermicro that you can see with the AMD Epyc MBD-H11DSI-NT supporting up to 2 TB of ECC DDR4 while the Intel X11DAi-N can support up to 4 TB of 3DS ECC RDIMM or DDR4 Random Access Memory regardless if that is not a true way to measure how good either companies product really is.

    However, consider this from back when AMD fans swore up and down that the Athlon XP was so much better than the Intel Pentium 4 when AMD was pushing it based on Performance rating instead of actual clock speed, but the Athlon XP's highest clock speed was about 2.2 GHz or not much over 2.5 GHz if at all and the Perfermance rating was about 3200+ to maybe 3600+ in terms of actual clockspeed performance compared to Intels highest Performing Desktop Pentium 4 processor clocked at 3.06 GHz that according to SiSoft Sandra actually had a Performance Rating of 4.1 GHz compared to AMD's Athlon XP. Also, the Athlon XP was dual pumped meaning the memory bandwidth of the Front Side Bus Speed compared to quad pumped meaning 4 time the memory bandwidth of the Front Side Bus Speed compared to Intel's Pentium 4 at during those years.

    Basically, AMD could only get up to 400 MHz FSB with at most a 200 MHz CPU Front Side Bus Speed Setting and 3.2 GB/s memory bandwidth with the Athlon XP. While an Intel Pentium 4 with an 533 MHz Front Side Bus Speed Setting could get up to 1066 MHz Memory FSB with Rambus and 4.2 GB/s more consistent bandwith than an AMD system using DDR. However, even when Intel Finally released the Intel 875 and 865 chipset to support Dual Bandwidth to support DDR Intel could still achieve an 800 MHz CPU FSB and 6.4 GB/s without overlclocking, which hardly matter to me considering I care most about if the computers works properly and not just about how fast it is or just about how fast the system is.

    AMD finally stopped using Performance Rating after the AMD Athlon 64 series processors that still weren't as good as Intel based systems from what I saw and continue to see because at the time of the Athlon 64 those processor based systems didn't even support enough system memory to justify having a 64-bit based system considering the maximum support system memory just for a 32-bit Operating System is 4 GB and AMD Athlon 64 systems that I saw and continue to see can't support passed 2 GB of system memory for desktop based systems.

    Intel doesn't have that problem though because they are dead on accurate considering they pushed there 32-bit hardware to the limit with up to 4 GB of system memory support and their 32-bit server hardware to the limit with up to 32 GB of system memory support using PAE (Physical Address Extensions) hence my joke in my thread about when I was trying to sell the Supermicro SC850P4 that at least had the Supermicro P4QH6 motherboard to support PAE and up to 32 GB of memory just to get a good laugh about if the machine could just run Windows 8 or 8.1 at the time let alone Windows Server 2012 if not the most current Windows Operating System Windows 10 or Windows Server 2016. Anyway most of that about the AMD athlon XP and Intel Pentium 4 was different problem, but one of my problems with finally deciding between an Athlon XP and an Intel Pentium 4 when I clearly wanted the Intel Pentium 4 except I was constantly buying or helping my friends with Optaining or using AMD hardware who preferred AMD instead of Intel based on affordability.

    Finally, this is just saying I think AMD is a good alternative and is why I asked or was trying to ask if anyone had any experience or success with using the AMD Epyc MBD-H11DSI-NT-O motherboard in the Lian-Li D8000 chassis because I consider it a very good Intel Alternative and the best AMD Intel Alternative yet, since Opteron series products as the only true workstation products from AMD when comparing to the only true workstation products based on the Intel Xeon from Intel and nothing less, even if Desktop products can outperform these sometime except not consistantly or in the long run and should show if any of you truely understand what I mean or have been trying to say all along.

    One last thing I was hoping for in the Lian-Li D8000 chassis is actual hot swap bays for the hard drives if necessory like the ones found in the Supermicro SC850P4 I had prior to that because even hot swap bays can be a problem if not used properly when changing bad or hard drives that fail, but I won't go on any furthor in explaining using hot swap bays on a system while turned on considering I have never had to use them that way or have any experience using that way yet and can only guess that it must be like using the Hot Processor Add feature I only remember seeing in Windows Server 2008 and no Windows Server Operating since then.
     
    Last edited: May 1, 2019
  35. scharfshutze009

    scharfshutze009 [H]ard|Gawd

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    Maybe a dual processor system isn't required for Bryce now a days, but I would definitly like to see how much better Bryce and TrueSpace 3 would work on modern systems supporting these now considering how long it took just to render a scene back in 1997 when my dad bought the family our first new Family computer an IBM aptiva using an AMD K6 233 MHz with 1 MB of video memory that was like render one still image one at a time, so slowly that it was the most painful process in terms of even trying to do 3D animation and modeling. As for TrueSpace 3 though hardspace seems to be the issue with finding time to use that or install it when it consistently gets eaten up doing normal tasks or by learning how to use a computer properly after all these years. Thank though for any feedback because this is probably the best you could recommend regardless if I already have a server using dual Intel Xeon 2011v2 2609's now to and previously 2603's prior, but can't seem to regain administrative access too just to do anything and know how to do this with the Ubuntu Server Operating System installed on it except it reboots itself evertime I try to delete the password field in order to reset the administrators or root password on it.
     
  36. pendragon1

    pendragon1 [H]ardForum Junkie

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    did not even bother reading that tirade...
     
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  37. Dan_D

    Dan_D [H]ardOCP Motherboard Editor

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    You do not need spell check or Microsoft Word to avoid writing run on sentences or use punctuation at a basic level. Doing so would make your posts infinitely easier to understand.

    There is not a hardware availability problem. You not knowing how to use it properly certainly seems to be a problem. You are trying to build a system to do a task which you do not fully understand.

    This is where you demonstrate that you have a poor understanding of how this technology works, and about hardware in general. Epyc and Threadripper processors are functionally the same. The differences between them are for market segmentation purposes. They both support the same instructions. They both process data the same way. The difference is that an Epyc CPU has eight channels for memory bandwidth and supports 128 PCIe lanes. However, the Threadripper 2990WX (where "W" stands for "workstation"), has higher clock speeds which have a direct impact on application performance. For workstation and server oriented tasks, there are situations where memory bandwidth is more important than clock speed.

    If you were talking about setting up an SQL server, then memory bandwidth would be more important than raw clock speed. But again, you described a more workstation oriented usage scenario in which an argument can be made for higher clocked cores rather than cores that run significantly slower. You can only use so much memory bandwidth as it doesn't benefit all applications. No one is saying anything about overclocking either. So I don't know where you are getting that from. Also, a gaming desktop wouldn't catch fire running server or workstation oriented tasks. In fact, many gaming machines and HEDT systems will have far better and quieter cooling than is typically found in pre-built workstations or servers. Wiring as you put it can only be done one way. Its either going to be done in a way that works or it doesn't. Most of the connections inside a computer are keyed so they can only fit one way into a given port or slot. What you are talking about doesn't make sense and is simply not true.

    Yes, there is plenty you can do about it. You could use commas and punctuation correctly, like the bulk of people responding to you. I have posts on this forum which are far longer than any of yours and I don't have this problem. I'm not an English major and I never even went to college. You do not need to be an English major or graduate student to use English in a way that allows you to communicate thoughts and ideas using the English language in its written form. I make plenty of mistakes because I'm not an English major or anything. However, for the most part the mistakes are a minor issue. If your posts were written with some effort to use the language correctly, no one would have said anything about it.

    You have just made an assertion that someone with a strong grasp of the English language, or someone who is an English major or graduate student couldn't possibly know anything about computers or assembling their own systems. This is an incorrect assertion and you have zero evidence to back up this ridiculous claim. Being competently versed in a language doesn't preclude having any specific level of expertise on an unrelated subject matter.

    This is incoherent rambling, so I won't address it.

    Anytime you write a post that's more than a paragraph or two, its referred to as a wall of text. It isn't necessarily a bad thing, so long as it is relevant or necessary regarding what's being discussed. The problem is that you do not use punctuation and you tend to include things which are not relevant to the questions you've asked or the discussion at hand. This makes the post difficult to read and its unnecessarily long.

    Whether or not Intel has a better website is irrelevant. The information you would need concerning Threadripper and Epyc is available via a simple Google search.

    Your understanding here is flawed. You are comparing apples and toast. They aren't remotely related. You also don't need Intel's scalable architecture for what you've defined as clearly workstation oriented tasks. You are comparing Epyc workstation hardware to scalable servers using Xeons. You should be comparing Xeon workstation motherboards to Epyc workstation motherboards.

    This is precisely what I was referring to above when I mentioned your inclusion of irrelevant information. None of the above is relevant to your questions, nor does it have anything to do with building a workstation for 3D modeling and rendering. To make matters worse, from what I can make out of the above mess, it isn't even correct. I would address the information, but it isn't necessary.

    Again, none of this is relevant. Even where you are correct on some level, your understanding of the information has you interpreting it the wrong way. Intel and AMD's platforms had diverged to a point where they weren't directly comparable by that time. Looking at the bus speed and motherboard specifications of each platform didn't tell the whole story. The PR or performance rating system was AMD's marketing department's way of explaining to the general public that its Athlon, Athlon XP, etc. had better IPC than Intel's. Intel's CPUs were the recognized standard for performance and people understood that a Pentium at 200MHz was faster than a processor which was otherwise the same, but clocked at a slower speed or vice versa.

    The problem is that there were systems sitting on retail shelves with Intel and AMD processors in them. The AMD processors were unable to hit the same clock speeds as their Intel counterparts. AMD's marketing needed a way to address the fact that they would have a 2.2GHz processor based system sitting next to an Intel at 3.06GHz. The general public knew nothing about IPC and only went by clock speed. Sometimes, AMD over-estimated its PR ratings in some cases, so this wasn't always a good method either, but it was better than nothing. What the hell does this have to do with anything regarding building a modern workstation for 3D modeling, animation and rendering?

    The PR system isn't relevant to the discussion. On the topic of memory support and 64bit computing, you are wrong once again. When the Athlon 64 was released, there were motherboards supporting up to 8GB of DDR RAM. However, total memory support wasn't really the reason why we needed 64bit computing. Through PAE (Physical Address Extensions) we could work around the 4GB limit. However, 32bit operating systems like Windows XP didn't just limit the OS to 4GB of RAM. It was also limited to 2GB for applications and 2GB for itself. The user couldn't run any software that used more than 2GB of RAM. You could force the OS to use 3GB via PAE, but you couldn't use more than that. This was further complicated by the fact that option ROMs had to be mapped within the 4GB boundary as well. This limited how much memory was actually available to the OS and the user. This is why 32bit OSes would often show only 3.5GB of available memory even in cases where 4GB was physical installed.

    For the record, I was running a Tyan K8WE S2895 and dual Opteron 256's at the time. That motherboard supported up to 16GB of RAM. I ran 8GB of RAM with Windows 2003 x64 Edition, and later Windows XP x64 Edition.

    Wrong. For starters, AMD supported PAE as well. On any consumer or server hardware, you had to use PAE to use more than 4GB of RAM with any 32bit OS. This is because PAE is technically 36bit, not 32bit. This isn't an AMD vs. Intel thing. The reason why you seem to think Intel did this better is because you probably saw (by your own admission) Windows 8.1 systems running Intel CPU's. Microsoft altered Windows 8.1 and later 32bit OSes to show 4GB of RAM installed even if only 3.5GB is actually available. They did this because the general public didn't understand how 32bit OS limitations worked. People would take their computers in for service or replace RAM thinking it had gone bad when they saw less than 4GB of RAM available to the OS.

    Again, you aren't looking at the right hardware because you don't understand the tasks you are trying to accomplish. Again, the chassis your talking about supports standard form factors. The reason you can't seem to find motherboards that work, is due to looking at Scalable Xeon hardware, which isn't what you should be looking at. Its also not what you should be comparing Threadripper or Epyc to. You need to match up the hardware with the tasks it will be performing. You don't buy an NVIDIA RTX 2080Ti to play Farmville on Facebook anymore than you would buy Scalable Xeon hardware and run Windows 10 Home. You are talking about 3D modeling and rendering. This is a workstation tasks. You should be looking at something like an HEDT based system or a dual processor motherboard for either Epyc or Xeon, that has two CPU sockets and uses the E-ATX form factor. The reason why Threadripper and HEDT motherboards keep getting mentioned, is because they are designed for the tasks you want to perform, which you know little about.

    If you want to go into massive debt to buy dual processor workstation hardware, or scalable Xeon shit you don't need, be my guest. But it won't make you into a computer animator and it won't work better for the tasks you've described to us.
     
    Last edited: May 1, 2019
  38. alxlwson

    alxlwson You Know Where I Live

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  39. elite.mafia

    elite.mafia Broke Back [H]

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    I applaud you at being able to stomach going through that guys post and responding.
     
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  40. gigaxtreme1

    gigaxtreme1 2[H]4U

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    I called it on a bot. The term "enthusiast engagement" came to mind and there is no better platform for a sentiment check.
     
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