Best reasonably priced DDR2 for Core2?

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prasvt

Gawd
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Dec 8, 2005
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Hey all...I have a question. I'm kind of thinking about building a Core 2 e6320 system in the next month or so. I've kind of gotten tired of my x2 4600 system (alot of random problems). I noticed that DDR2 800 prices have gone down alot.

Since I've been an AMD cpu user for the last 7 years (athlon 900, xp 2000, xp2800, x2 4600) I'm not that familiar with overclocking Core 2 Duos. All you guys who are overclocking to 3GHz +, is it necessary to push the RAM past 800MHz? I know that there are faster sticks available but the prices start ramping up again - and at this point I'm trying to cap my expenditure to $500 (cpu, mobo, ram, zalman 9500 or 9700 cooler).

I've seen some Geil 2gb kits and G-Skill 2gb kits that are ~$140 or less...but I know that you kind of get what you pay for.

I just wanted to know what your thoughts were on memory speeds necessary for overclocking and what kind of memory (2 x 1gb kits) you guys use / suggest.

Thanks all.
 
The E6320 will need a 429 Mhz FSB to hit ~3 Ghz, which at 1:1 with RAM needs you need RAM running at 215 Mhz (a little over DDR2-800...it's DDR2-860). I'd suggest getting an E64x0 model if you want easier OC to 3 Ghz because it has an 8x multiplier, so at DDR2-800 RAM speed, 1:1 FSB:RAM, you will get 3.2 Ghz.

There's a sea of good DDR2 RAM out there, like the Crucial Ballistix or Corsair XMS, but I'm not really up to speed with my RAM. Even value DDR2-800 RAM would get you to 3.2 Ghz with an E6400 (or 2.8 with an E6300). It's when you start going beyond that that you would need the performance stuff.

On that matter...I have 2GB of Buffalo Firestix. Also, bringing an E6300 to 400 Mhz FSB (just got the machine, haven't bothered to explore it further) was probably the most boring overclock I ever did. You just get the FSB to 400 and that's pretty much it. :p
 
It all depends on the CPU you choose. The Allendale core CPUs (E4300/E4400/E6300/E6400) have a limit of around 3Ghz, and the Conroe core CPUs reach past 3.6Ghz. Earlier models of the E6300/E6400 were Conroe cores with half of their L2 Cache disabled, so they OC better than the newer ones... from what I've read.

So, with lower multipliers, you need high speed ram to reach high overclocks... so the formula is: [CPU multiplier] x [base FSB] = [CPU clock speed], [base FSB] x 2 = [DDR2 ram speed], [base FSB] x 4 = [effective FSB speed]... for example:

E4300 (high multiplier, low stock FSB, but lower OC potential; Allendale core)
stock: 9 * 200 = 1.8Ghz, DDR2-400
overclock: 9 * 333 = 3.0Ghz, DDR2-667

E6300 (newer version; allendale core)
stock: 7 * 266 = 1.8Ghz, DDR2-533, 1066Mhz effective FSB
overclock: 7 * 466 = 3.2Ghz, DDR2-932, 1864Mhz effective FSB

E6300/E6320 (Conroe core versions)
stock: 7 * 266 = 1.8Ghz, DDR2-533
overclock: 7 * 500 = 3.5Ghz, DDR2-1000

E6600 (Conroe core):
stock: 9 * 266 = 2.4Ghz, DDR2-533
overclock: 9 * 400 = 3.6Ghz, DDR2-800

Now, the best chips for overclocking are Micron D9XXX ICs. So, since DDR2-1000+ rated sticks are so expensive, people are looking for sitcks that are rated at DDR2-800 but still use the Micron ICs. Here's the ramlist: httpramlist.ath.cxddr2

Heres a great deal on some Crucial Ballistix DDR2-1000 for $150AR/AC: http://forums.slickdeals.net/showthread.php?t=502357

Directron.com had some Buffalo Firestix DDR2-800 for $120, but I think they're out of stock now.

bashPenguin said:
The E6320 will need a 429 Mhz FSB to hit ~3 Ghz, which at 1:1 with RAM needs you need RAM running at 215 Mhz (a little over DDR2-800...it's DDR2-860). I'd suggest getting an E64x0 model if you want easier OC to 3 Ghz because it has an 8x multiplier, so at DDR2-800 RAM speed, 1:1 FSB:RAM, you will get 3.2 Ghz.
Click to expand...

You got the E64X0 calc right. But... for an E6300 to reach 3Ghz, its 3000/7 = 429Mhz base FSB, which means the RAM needs to run at 429Mhz, not 429/2. RAM runs at the base FSB speed. The effective FSB would be 4x that, since the intel platform is quad-pumped. The RAM speed rating is double the base FSB speed, since it runs in dual channel... but we say 2 * 430 = DDR2-860 (because its not really 860Mhz). So...

E6300/E6320
stock: 7 * 266 = 1.8Ghz, DDR2-533, 1066Mhz effective FSB (266Mhz base FSB)
overclock: 7 * 430 = 3.0Ghz, DDR2-860, 1720Mhz effective FSB (430Mhz base FSB)

E6400/E6420:
stock: 8 * 266 = 2.13Ghz, DDR2-533, 1066Mhz effective FSB
overclock: 8 * 400 = 3.2Ghz, DDR2-800, 1600Mhz effective FSB (easily done on near stock voltage, btw)
 
enginurd said:
For an E6300 to reach 3Ghz, its 3000/7 = 429Mhz base FSB, which means the RAM needs to run at 429Mhz, not 429/2. RAM runs at the base FSB speed. The effective FSB would be 4x that, since the intel platform is quad-pumped. So...

E6300: 7 * 266 = 1.8Ghz, DDR2-533, 1066Mhz effective FSB (266Mhz base FSB)
E6300: 7 * 430 = 3.0Ghz, DDR2-860, 1720Mhz effective FSB (430Mhz base FSB)
Click to expand...

That's what kept confusing me about my motherboard's settings when I got it, since my old machine is just DDR1 and had dividers labeled as 1:1 or 5:4. The 1:1 divider is labeled 2.00, so I thought at a FSB of 400 Mhz, the DDR speed would be 200 (but since DDR2 is 4 ops per cycle, that becomes DDR2-800 Mhz).

What I meant was the RAM would be running at 215 effective clock, but the DDR2 clock speed would be DDR2-860.

edit: cool, I get what you're saying enginurd :)
 
Is there like... a bottleneck calculator out there? That would be extreemly usefull for problems like this. Where you can just plug in all the stats of all the parts you've decided on and it will fill in what the rest of the parts you need are to not bottleneck the system? That would be awesome.
Just input your CPU's cache, GHz and FSB, along with other mobo and video card information and it'll tell you te stats on memory you should get.
:D
 
enginurd said:
It all depends on the CPU you choose. The Allendale core CPUs (E4300/E4400/E6300/E6400) have a limit of around 3Ghz, and the Conroe core CPUs reach past 3.6Ghz.
Click to expand...


I bet many allendale owners would disagree about the 3ghz max part :D Mine runs 3200 all day long perfectly. I have not tried more and really can't use it anyways. There are also lots of the allendales running well over 3200.....the ONLY physical difference in the Conroe and Allendale cores are the built in cache.
 
TheRapture said:
I bet many allendale owners would disagree about the 3ghz max part :D Mine runs 3200 all day long perfectly. I have not tried more and really can't use it anyways. There are also lots of the allendales running well over 3200.....the ONLY physical difference in the Conroe and Allendale cores are the built in cache.
Click to expand...

I don't know. I'm the only one even on the overclocking list for L2 E6400.

What NB voltage are you using? I have to do +0.2v to even touch 3.0ghz with mine.
 
If youre in a budget, just buy the cheapest rams you can get and youll be fine...... Its nice to have D9's but its not necessary unless you need tight timings...... Promos, elpidia, infenion etc have no problem going 500fsb+, so no need to worry about those rams limiting your overclock......
 
TheRapture said:
enginurd said:
It all depends on the CPU you choose. The Allendale core CPUs (E4300/E4400/E6300/E6400) have a limit of around 3Ghz, and the Conroe core CPUs reach past 3.6Ghz.
Click to expand...
I bet many allendale owners would disagree about the 3ghz max part :D Mine runs 3200 all day long perfectly. I have not tried more and really can't use it anyways. There are also lots of the allendales running well over 3200.....the ONLY physical difference in the Conroe and Allendale cores are the built in cache.
Click to expand...

I didnt say 3Ghz max, I said the limit was around 3Ghz. Ugh, the one time I don't type "± 200Mhz" after it, someone says something, lol. Anyhow, a few E4300 owners I know (about 4 of 'em) can only reach 2.8Ghz. I know several others who also run 3.2Ghz all day, too.

So, let me rephrase that...the AVERAGE OC is AROUND 3Ghz, and the limit is about + 200Mhz of that, on air. Then again, Anandtech got theirs to 3.4Ghz... I wonder why none of my friends are able to reach that high?
 
That isnt the limit. Theres lots that go close to 4ghz or above. It just depends on your setup and cpu.

I know some people that have E4300's at 4.5ghz. But yes you can get poor cpus also that wont go past 2.8ghz or so.
 
Wow alot of great information there. Thanks for explaining how all the speeds were calculated too. Yeah, initially I considered the e4xxx cpus because I figured one of those would tie me over until the quad cores came down in price. But, it looks like a cpu with a higher multiplier will help with memory requirements.

So looks like maybe the e6420 is probably the best bet.

Well, since I have you guys here, how are the new nvidia 650 based motherboards? I read that at least the more expensive 680sli boards are good for overclocking. I was looking at the Gigabyte DS4 and possibly the MSI P6N (non platinum). My roommate has an e6400 with a Gigabyte DS3 which seems to be a popular 965 board. I'm not sure which chipset is the best for stability and performance.

I've got a DFI Ultra-D for my AMD cpu and that has so many tweaking options in the BIOS, so I kind of want a board with some flexibility.

Suggestions?
 
Basically if you want to use stock speed pc2-6400 memory that wont go higher, you want a E4300 or E6420 period.
 
there is so much info here ,learning alot , but it allso got me confused , if i have E6600 can i put 4x1gb of DDR2-667 ? or only 2 sticks if i overclock to 3ghz ?
 
Good question. Also, does ram run at 1T timings on Core 2 systems? And you say I don't really need to up the Vcore much to OC? Interesting...
 
this is the ram i bought a few days ago, will be here friday.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820144062

its out of stock now but it was out of stock when i orgionally wanted to buy it. only took a few days to get back instock.

people have been getting this ram to 1000mhz and its price is really cheap.

i bought and E4300 to go with it. so i dont actually plan on taking it past 800mhz buts it should be good ram to do so.
 
Yeah I was looking at that Geil 2GB kit...good specs / price. I may wait until those are in stock. I was looking at the Mushkin 2GB kit too...apparently those are d9s as well. My roommate has the Corsair XMS2 DDR2800s (4 x 512) - though I'm not sure if his are CAS5 or CAS4. Apparently Buffalo Firestix were on sale for like 120 though they're out of stock as well.

*sigh*..trying to figure out the right components is always so painful.

Is there a big performance difference b/t CAS4 and CAS5?
 
If RAM was this cheap when I bought... I might have thought about this:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820141141

4GB for $240??? Holy CRAP!!! Sure they're DDR2-667 and probably don't overclock worth a damn, but hey.... 4GB, who needs fast ram, it's all in there! hahaha... anyways. If it doesn't overclock that well, just use a divider.

IMO that's what I would at least give a thought to...
 
enginurd said:
So, let me rephrase that...the AVERAGE OC is AROUND 3Ghz, and the limit is about + 200Mhz of that, on air.
Click to expand...

Retsam said:
That isnt the limit. Theres lots that go close to 4ghz or above. It just depends on your setup and cpu.
Click to expand...

Yah, we all know it depends on your entire setup. Though, I seriously doubt you could reach 4Ghz on air cooling with an E4300.

prasvt said:
Is there a big performance difference b/t CAS4 and CAS5?
Click to expand...

No, not a big one. In fact, I doubt you'll notice it in regular desktop/gaming usage.

prasvt said:
Also, does ram run at 1T timings on Core 2 systems? And you say I don't really need to up the Vcore much to OC? Interesting...
Click to expand...

2T on most high speed DDR2 systems. Most Conroe core CPUs don't need much of a vCore increase to reach good OC speeds. My E6400 reached 3.2Ghz on stock voltage (1.325v). But to bump it up to 3.6Ghz, it needed 1.50v.

dima1236 said:
there is so much info here ,learning alot , but it allso got me confused , if i have E6600 can i put 4x1gb of DDR2-667 ? or only 2 sticks if i overclock to 3ghz ?
Click to expand...

You could put 4 sticks. Though, for you to be able to use all 4GB, you'll need a 64-bit OS.
 
enginurd said:
So, let me rephrase that...the AVERAGE OC is AROUND 3Ghz, and the limit is about + 200Mhz of that, on air. Then again, Anandtech got theirs to 3.4Ghz... I wonder why none of my friends are able to reach that high?
Click to expand...


Hence why I had the smiley :D


I was kind of stuck at 2.8 until I tweaked some things in the BIOS, very small things made a big difference....it's like a puzzle, one thing off a little and it would crash at anytihing over 3ghz.....
 
Okay, here's my Newegg cart. ... kind of went over the $500 mark..but whatever.

Corsair XMS2 2GB kit (cas5 version) PC6400 - $142 - $30 MIR
Gigabyte 650SLI DS4 - $139.99
Intel Core 2 Duo e6420 - $196
Zalman CNPS9500 AT cpu cooler - $47.99

And of course some AS5 so add another $5 to that.

I should be able to hit 3GHz safely with that setup right?
 
Hmm...ok there's a separate e6420 thread so I'll check that out. Anyway, my cousin's husband works at Intel, so lemme see what kind of discount he can get for that cpu.

Thanks again for all the help guys.
 
Sure. If you don't want to waste your time with that rebate, go with the G.Skill 2GBNQ kit instead. Also, I'm partial to the Scythe Ninja Plus Rev.B over the Zalman 9500. It keeps my E6400 (3.6Ghz 1.5v) at 37°C while idle and 56°C on load. I had the G.Skill kit at 450Mhz (DDR2-900, 8*450=3.6Ghz), but it needed 2.1v to run stable. The Ballistix need 2.2v, but I can lower the timings a bit with those. They're on sale right now, check out slickdeals.net for the coupon (if you're interested).
 
enginurd said:
Sure. If you don't want to waste your time with that rebate, go with the G.Skill 2GBNQ kit instead. Also, I'm partial to the Scythe Ninja Plus Rev.B over the Zalman 9500. It keeps my E6400 (3.6Ghz 1.5v) at 37°C while idle and 56°C on load. I had the G.Skill kit at 450Mhz (DDR2-900, 8*450=3.6Ghz), but it needed 2.1v to run stable. The Ballistix need 2.2v, but I can lower the timings a bit with those. They're on sale right now, check out slickdeals.net for the coupon (if you're interested).
Click to expand...

I wish I got that with my Rev. B. I just found out yesterday that my Ninja wasn't even making contact with the CPU, and on load (6300 @ 2800) my CPU was toasting itself at 80+ C.

I tried remounting a few times, but the temps got worse, so I just ended up using the stock INtel cooler.
 
bashPenguin said:
I wish I got that with my Rev. B. I just found out yesterday that my Ninja wasn't even making contact with the CPU, and on load (6300 @ 2800) my CPU was toasting itself at 80+ C.

I tried remounting a few times, but the temps got worse, so I just ended up using the stock INtel cooler.
Click to expand...

What board?
 
bashPenguin said:
Gigabyte DQ6. The heatsink clears all the caps, and I can get all the pins in, but still, I get zero contact between the CPU and heatsink (none or very little of my thermal paste is on the heatsink).
Click to expand...

I seriously doubt your bracket is clearing the caps. Can you take a pic of your socket? See the bottom of this page:

http://www.scythe-usa.com/support/cpu/002/NinjaRev.B775socketinstalltaiontip.html

I used a dremel on the bracket so it would fit properly... this was for a couple of the DS3 boards I used on builds for friends/clients, including my own.
 
Alright I'll check out the G-Skill sticks..I wasn't sure what the quality was like.

Now, which cpu cooler is the one that doesn't fit right? I picked the Zalman because people w/ Core 2s seemed to have good temps with it. I'll take a look at the Scythe as well.
 
Ok from what I've read, the Scythe Ninja is kinda hard to put on. Is that true? Here's a picture of the Gigabyte DS4 ...will that cooler fit? There's a copper heatsink near the cpu slot. I wanna make sure whatever cooler I get is gonna fit...

13-128-044-04.jpg
 
prasvt said:
Ok from what I've read, the Scythe Ninja is kinda hard to put on. Is that true? Here's a picture of the Gigabyte DS4 ...will that cooler fit? There's a copper heatsink near the cpu slot. I wanna make sure whatever cooler I get is gonna fit...
Click to expand...

The thing is, they sometimes move the caps without telling anyone. I've used several DS3s where the Ninja fits fine... yet in a couple of the newer ones, the caps are too close to the socket. According to the pic you posted, it looks like they're too close to the socket on that board. If you don't want to bother with a dremel, then go for the Zalman or Tuniq. Also, check out the Ultra 120.
 
Guys, it's impossible to find either a Tuniq Tower 120 or a Thermalright Ultra 120 anywhere! What is up with that? Dammit!
 
prasvt said:
Guys, it's impossible to find either a Tuniq Tower 120 or a Thermalright Ultra 120 anywhere! What is up with that? Dammit!
Click to expand...

Price drops = everyone buying computers now = shortage on stock. Its (Tuniq) in stock at performance-pcs... but you better hurry, lol. Its also in stock at some popular canadian site, which also has a US site.
 
Thanks for the heads up enginurd. I just ordered a tuniq 120 from there. I know that thing is expensive..but looking at the latest Anandtech round up, its performance seems to go above and beyond most other coolers - so hopefully it's worth it.

Okay...well I guess now I actually need to buy the computer parts. School's over for me and graduation isn't for another 2 weeks ... so this is my early present to myself. Time to sell some books and get some money to pay for all this hehe.

BTW...i decided to go with the MSI P6N Platinum and the 2gb G-Skill DDR2800 kit. The MSI mobo seems to have more space around the cpu area.
 
Looks good, good luck! Congrats, btw... and where are you graduating from and with what? hehe, just curious.
 
Thanks man. Graduating from Virginia Tech with a degree in Business Information Technology. It's been a long road for me...I was stuck in computer engineering for a few years before I finally had the guts to be like F this..I'm no engineer. Anyway, still, after what happened on campus last week it's been hard to really be excited about graduating.
 
ok..done deal..finally the system ended up as such:

Tuniq 120 (already shipped apparently)
Core 2 e6420
2GB G.Skill PC6400 CAS5
ASUS P5B (decided to go with what seems to work for everyone)


Now...what to do with the X2 4600, 2GB of XP4000 DDR500, and DFI Ultra-D?
 
Wow... thats shell shocking.

You can sell your old parts for some pretty good money still.

I hope you went with the P5B Deluxe or -E, and not the vanilla.
 
UH OH.no i think got the vanilla p5b. Well yeah looks like the Deluxe has heatpipes, oc protection, wifi and some other interesting features. Hmm...well the deluxe is a bit out of my price range. Looking at the reviews, people still seem to have good luck overclocking with the regular p5b. As long as it's stable and relatively cool at ~3ghz I'll be happy. This build wasn't really meant to be a high-end build. Just enough to play with for a while until I get a job and a car and whatnot. As long as it's on par with the Gigabyte DS3, i can live with it.
 
TheRapture said:
Hence why I had the smiley :D


I was kind of stuck at 2.8 until I tweaked some things in the BIOS, very small things made a big difference....it's like a puzzle, one thing off a little and it would crash at anytihing over 3ghz.....
Click to expand...

PM me with your bios settings. I'm stuck at 3ghz right now with the following:

FSB: 429 x7
VDimm: +0.3 (2.1?)
4-4-4-15 timings are working fine
RAM is running 858 mhz
VMch + 0.1
VFSB +0.1
VPCIE + 0.1
VCore: 1.41875v

I can't get 400x8 stable and I've tried up to 1.45 VBios.
 
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