Best Placement of DSL Modem in House?

P

Peat Moss

Gawd
Joined
Oct 6, 2009
Messages
543
I am switching to a VDSL internet connection, from having had cable internet for a long time. Being new to DSL, I've been reading about how the distance from the Demarc line can affect speeds.

Does the distance from the wall jack to the modem also affect speeds?

If so, should I be trying to place the VDSL modem as close to the wall jack as possible?
 
As close to the demarc as possible. It's better to have a long ethernet cord that runs to your own router/switch than a long phone cord that connects to your modem.
 
It kind of depends, if your VDSL is speed tiered (like U-Verse is), then try the modem where it's convenient to have it first and see if you have a good enough connection (most modems show signal to noise ratio or a noise margin, or 'attainable speeds'), then you don't really need to put the modem somewhere else. But if your connection is marginal (or you get to run at the full sync speed), then every little bit helps. Just don't expect miracles: most people are in the ballpark of 1000 feet of outside wiring, and 30 feet of inside wiring.
 
Last edited:
Google "DSL Home Run" and do that. When I had DSL back in the day I ran a home run line directly to the DSL modem and my latency and speed increased dramatically.
 
As close to where the line comes in as possible.
 
It has never mattered or made one bit of difference in the fifteen years I have had DSL. I just moved last spring and had a new DSL line run. Bell Canada put in a dedicated POTS splitter and ran a 50 foot phone line to the modem jack location. That's called a "home run" line, referred to above. When tested, the signal was excellent and I have had zero issues. I'm 2100m from the CO. Same with my old installation in my old home. It never mattered, no matter how much voodoo people talk about. Some NID's have a POTS splitter integral to them, and that's fine, too. My NID doesn't and is nearly 70 years old and in the middle of the house. The POTS splitter Bell installed is even good for VDSL2+
 
Last edited:
The last DSL I setup I cut the ends off a CAT5 cable, wired it directly into the outside demarc and brought in inside the basement through an existing foundation service access hole. Then I wired it to a RJ14 jack and plugged the modem into that. It's tucked away in the basement without issue. Probably about 5 -8 ft of cable between the modem and demarc. Has worked flawlessly for about 10 years now.
 
Thanks.

The outside cables come to the demarc at the back of the house. My office (and computer) is in the front of the house in the basement. I'm guessing the distance is about 50'-60 ft. I'd rather not have to put my modem in a separate room at the other end of the house.
 
I dont see the problem.
You wont need to access it physically, it will have a browser interface.
You will need to run a wire no matter which method you use, unless you are going wireless in which case its positioning may be determined by radio signal strength in parts of the house.
There is more chance of lower data rate if you extend the phone line due to more connections, differing attenuation (reflects part of the signal) and resistance reducing amplitude and decreasing the signal to noise ratio.
 
Nenu said:
I dont see the problem.
You wont need to access it physically, it will have a browser interface.
You will need to run a wire no matter which method you use, unless you are going wireless in which case its positioning may be determined by radio signal strength in parts of the house.
There is more chance of lower data rate if you extend the phone line due to more connections, differing attenuation (reflects part of the signal) and resistance reducing amplitude and decreasing the signal to noise ratio.
Click to expand...

I like to visually monitor the lights on the modem. If something goes wrong with the internet connection, the first thing I do is check the lights. And the first thing the ISP tech support does is ask me to check the modem lights, unplug it, maybe reset it, etc. With the modem 60 feet away in another room, it makes being on the phone with tech support awkward. I've also never had a cable modem with a browser interface. Do all DSL modems have a browser interface?
 
Peat Moss said:
I like to visually monitor the lights on the modem. If something goes wrong with the internet connection, the first thing I do is check the lights. And the first thing the ISP tech support does is ask me to check the modem lights, unplug it, maybe reset it, etc. With the modem 60 feet away in another room, it makes being on the phone with tech support awkward. I've also never had a cable modem with a browser interface. Do all DSL modems have a browser interface?
Click to expand...

How often do you really plan to call the ISP? If everything is working correctly, you shouldn't have to stare at the modem more than once or twice a year. Moving the modem further away from the telco box makes it more likely you will run into an issue. So you could just be creating a problem by moving the modem away from where the phone line is terminated on the house. When I had DSL or helped anyone with DSL I always run a new wire (RJ45 solid copper) directly to the modem and tried to wall mount the DSL hardware so the wiring was short with any needed filters also close to the modem. I've fixed issues for a few friends by doing this and avoiding their existing wiring.

And most cable modems have browser interfaces, not sure about DSL. For example with any recent Moto cable modem you just browse to 192.168.100.1.
 
Last edited:
Peat Moss said:
I like to visually monitor the lights on the modem. If something goes wrong with the internet connection, the first thing I do is check the lights. And the first thing the ISP tech support does is ask me to check the modem lights, unplug it, maybe reset it, etc. With the modem 60 feet away in another room, it makes being on the phone with tech support awkward. I've also never had a cable modem with a browser interface. Do all DSL modems have a browser interface?
Click to expand...

All that I have seen in the last 10+ years.
You usually get to it by looking at your PCs IP and making the last digit a 1
 
That's assuming the PC is connected to the DSL modem directly. If it's connected to a router then you'll most likely get the routers browser interface.
 
Skillz said:
That's assuming the PC is connected to the DSL modem directly. If it's connected to a router then you'll most likely get the routers browser interface.
Click to expand...

This is why Motorola is 192.168.100.1 and not 0.1.
 
ocellaris said:
This is why Motorola is 192.168.100.1 and not 0.1.
Click to expand...

Yeah I know. I was replying to Nenu who said to just replace the last digit in your PC's IP to a 1 to go to it which isn't always true.
 
ocellaris said:
How often do you really plan to call the ISP? If everything is working correctly, you shouldn't have to stare at the modem more than once or twice a year. Moving the modem further away from the telco box makes it more likely you will run into an issue. So you could just be creating a problem by moving the modem away from where the phone line is terminated on the house. When I had DSL or helped anyone with DSL I always run a new wire (RJ45 solid copper) directly to the modem and tried to wall mount the DSL hardware so the wiring was short with any needed filters also close to the modem. I've fixed issues for a few friends by doing this and avoiding their existing wiring.

And most cable modems have browser interfaces, not sure about DSL. For example with any recent Moto cable modem you just browse to 192.168.100.1.
Click to expand...

In fifteen years of continuious DSL use, there has been zero (as in no, none, nada) issue with the placement of the modem. Like the OP, I prefer to have the modem lights visible. A manual reboots has occasionally been necessary. Yes, I have a web interface for the modem, but a quick glance tells me just as much, just as fast if not faster. If the OP has a Home Run setup (dedicated line from the NID or a dedicated POTS splitter) a 60' run of new wire to the jack at the modem modem should be just fine. Then just use the 6' wire that comes with the modem from the jack. Done.
 
Skillz said:
Yeah I know. I was replying to Nenu who said to just replace the last digit in your PC's IP to a 1 to go to it which isn't always true.
Click to expand...

Bell Canada's IP for their 2Wire modems is 192.168.2.1.
 
Skillz said:
Yeah I know. I was replying to Nenu who said to just replace the last digit in your PC's IP to a 1 to go to it which isn't always true.
Click to expand...

I was being helpful to give him the most likely easy method of finding the right IP.
You were right to make the point but it wasnt counter to what I said.
I said "usually" to qualify that it can be different.
You inserted the word "just" :p
 
diggi said:
I never heard that b4
Click to expand...

Never heard of someone trying to avoid the preexisting home wiring? I've run into this a bunch of times, especially in basements where people where people kept adding jacks and splitters all over the place. My current house had a phone jack in every room and multiple jacks in the basement. DSL modem didn't work in the computer room for more than a few minutes.
 
Last edited:
diggi said:
I never heard that b4
Click to expand...
It is to reduce losses before the conversion to your local LAN is performed which reduce the internet connection speed.
The extra length, changes in resistance and extra connections can all add problems.

Once running on gigabit, even if there are some losses on the LAN, it wont reduce the speed of the internet because the LAN is orders of magnitude faster.
 
As someone that has done DSL installs for 13 years, you want a dedicated line from the NID to the modem. And have a POTS filter in the NID to make sure the DSL signal only goes on the line to the modem and not the rest of the wiring in the house.

If you don't the modem will still work but you need to put DSL filters on anything plugged into the phone line and it isn't ideal. And you will eventually have problems. It will limit the rate the modem will sync up at and you may have latency problems. For some old lady that just needs it for email and funeral announcements I don't bother. Anyone that does any gaming or streaming I definitely run a new line to the modem. It doesn't really matter how far it is from the NID in the house. But like anything else in telco wiring the shorter the better.

There have been a few cases where I have had to move the line to go around power influence problems such as fluorescent lights or other "screwy" problems. But I don't run into something like that very often.
 
So the shorter the phone cord to the modem, the better??

This is news to me!
 
eh, all that stuff may do something or it may not. end results is that you will still have all these copper lines daisy chained throughout your house. It is all the copper that weakens the signal. Installing filters only prevents interference by removing high frequencies back and forth from whatever connects to the filter. Listen to your phone. If you have static or issues connecting to dialup you have a problem. DSL bandwidth potential is based on your distance to the central office (or remote terminal). 18k used to be the max for anything. You would want much less for a quality signal. The home run stuff, well, you are adding yet more copper to the overall line. Maybe it will help if nothing else works. I used to tech this stuff, had DSL until cable came around. With the 50MB/s from cable, nope, I would never consider going back to DSL. AT&T does offer IP Broadband in some markets. That may be more palatable, but may also be high priced in comparison.
 
jiminator said:
eh, all that stuff may do something or it may not. end results is that you will still have all these copper lines daisy chained throughout your house. It is all the copper that weakens the signal. Installing filters only prevents interference by removing high frequencies back and forth from whatever connects to the filter. Listen to your phone. If you have static or issues connecting to dialup you have a problem. DSL bandwidth potential is based on your distance to the central office (or remote terminal). 18k used to be the max for anything. You would want much less for a quality signal. The home run stuff, well, you are adding yet more copper to the overall line. Maybe it will help if nothing else works. I used to tech this stuff, had DSL until cable came around. With the 50MB/s from cable, nope, I would never consider going back to DSL. AT&T does offer IP Broadband in some markets. That may be more palatable, but may also be high priced in comparison.
Click to expand...

Filtering out the rest of the wiring in a house does make a difference. With a POTS filter in the NID you are making it so the DSL signal does not go over the rest of the house wiring. Only the line to the modem. But yes with DSL you are doing 15Mb/s or less unless you do bonding. But VDSL over copper can do 100 Mb/s within 2000ft and the up coming G.Fast can do a 1 Gb/s over the same copper phone lines. Fortunately my company has decided to ditch copper all together and do fiber to the home.
 
With a filter in the NID you are actually blocking the frequency bands which DSL uses.
Assuming I understood you correctly, the 'filters' are low pass. Meaning, they are intended to prevent analogue equipment from receiving and echoing the higher frequency DSL band so as not to disrupt it.
You should place filters "before" any device that isn't your modem. Only the latter needs a clear 'path' from your ISP's end to your modem.
Sorry if that's what you meant and I'm being Captain Obvious.

I have crappy ADSL peaking at about 10 Mbs down and 1 up and I once spent the better part of the day on trying out various filters, modems, removing unneeded copper and phone sets.

Ultimately I simply connected the modem directly where the wires enter my home and (for SCIENCE) chopped off the rest of the house.

In my case there was no difference. However, faulty telephone sets, cheap modems or bad filters do play a role.
My ISP was unable to resolve my line's issues neither. However they showed mercy and beefed up the terminal to which I am connected (ironically it's across the street, but I'm the last node) which instantly cured all CRC errors and the like.
 
Well....got my VDSL line connected, and bought my modem.

The line comes into the basement and runs inside drywall about 20 ft to the nearest wall jack, which is about half way between the outside wall in the back of the house and to my computer at the front of the house. The distance between the nearest wall jack and my computer is about 50 feet (not in a straight line, but as the cabling has to travel along baseboards and around corners).

I had some old cheap flat unshielded household telephone cord in a 50 ft length. So I hooked it up and voila, it seems to be working ok. My speeds are what they should be (25 mbps down / 5 mbps up). My voip connection seems to be fine too. I don't hear any static on the line. The latency seems a bit long though.

I asked the technician who came to my house about distances and home run lines, etc., and he said I'm well within the distance to the CO and wouldn't need a home run line.

I think I'd still like to get better quality cables though, just to be on the safe side. So knowing the distance from my modem to the wall jack isn't going to make much difference, I now still have a choice to either keep the modem (and other devices) on my desk 50 feet away from the wall jack....or, I could still place the modem next to the wall jack with a short telephone cord and then run 50 ft ethernet cables to my desk instead.

1. Does distance matter with ethernet cables? Or is it just always generally better to have a shorter distance no matter what kind of cable?

2. Also, to filter, or not to filter....that is the question.
 
Last edited:
Peat Moss said:
Well....got my VDSL line connected, and bought my modem.

The line comes into the basement and runs inside drywall about 20 ft to the nearest wall jack, which is about half way between the outside wall in the back of the house and to my computer at the front of the house. The distance between the nearest wall jack and my computer is about 50 feet (not in a straight line, but as the cabling has to travel along baseboards and around corners).

I had some old cheap flat unshielded household telephone cord in a 50 ft length. So I hooked it up and voila, it seems to be working ok. My speeds are what they should be (25 mbps down / 5 mbps up). My voip connection seems to be fine too. I don't hear any static on the line. The latency seems a bit long though.

I asked the technician who came to my house about distances and home run lines, etc., and he said I'm well within the distance to the CO and wouldn't need a home run line.

I think I'd still like to get better quality cables though, just to be on the safe side. So knowing the distance from my modem to the wall jack isn't going to make much difference, I now still have a choice to either keep the modem (and other devices) on my desk 50 feet away from the wall jack....or, I could still place the modem next to the wall jack with a short telephone cord and then run 50 ft ethernet cables to my desk instead.

Does distance matter with ethernet cables? Or is it just always generally better to have a shorter distance no matter what kind of cable?
Click to expand...

Ethernet is far more resistant to possible issues over a given distance than a DSL data line in my experience. Though I will note my experience is with house built in the early 1900s that had a absolutely ridiculous amount of bad/extra wiring in the basements from decades of people adding and moving phones lines around without ever removing a wire :p

If you have a crimper tool, you can upgrade your wiring by simply using high quality Ethernet cable with RJ11 ends on it.
 
Last edited:
Peat Moss said:
Well....got my VDSL line connected, and bought my modem.
Click to expand...

What do your sync stats look like? If your modem gives a 'max sync' and it's significantly above the tier you're on, you probably don't need to do anything. VDSL latency is kind of crap, when i switched from ADSL to VDSL, my latency to nearby servers went from 8-9ms to 22ms.

Re: ethernet cable length. Ethernet spec max distance is 100 meters for most cases of twisted pair, so you really don't need to worry about that in most houses.

Re: filtering; you mentioned VoIP, if you're VoIP only (no POTS), you probably don't need to do any filtering as there's nothing to filter.
 
toast0 said:
What do your sync stats look like? If your modem gives a 'max sync' and it's significantly above the tier you're on, you probably don't need to do anything. VDSL latency is kind of crap, when i switched from ADSL to VDSL, my latency to nearby servers went from 8-9ms to 22ms.

Re: ethernet cable length. Ethernet spec max distance is 100 meters for most cases of twisted pair, so you really don't need to worry about that in most houses.

Re: filtering; you mentioned VoIP, if you're VoIP only (no POTS), you probably don't need to do any filtering as there's nothing to filter.
Click to expand...

Thanks. Are sync stats located in the modem web interface? (I'm actually kind of scared to check it, because the last time I went to my modem's UI, I lost my internet connection for 24 hours).

I've looked around and discovered I can buy RJ-11 modem cable that is cat5e and double shielded. I'm assuming that, like ethernet cable, 50 ft of this type of modem cable wouldn't be a problem? I think I'd rather run one 50 ft line of modem cable to my modem at my desk, than have the modem near the wall jack and have to run two 50 ft ethernet cables from the modem to my desk. But I'm still debating the best configuration in my head.

Yes, I only have voip over dsl. So you only need filtering when you have BOTH a telephone POTS line and adsl? Good to know.
 
I have a TP-Link TD-W9980 VDSL2 modem.

I checked the modem status in the web UI, but I didn't see anything related to 'sync status'.
 
Peat Moss said:
I have a TP-Link TD-W9980 VDSL2 modem.

I checked the modem status in the web UI, but I didn't see anything related to 'sync status'.
Click to expand...

Does the webui look like this? If so, Current Rate in the DSL section is your sync rate (likely to be around 5000 in upstream and 25000 in downstream based on you saying it's 25/5), Max Rate is the modem's estimate for the fastest it could actually sync (although that's often not a realistic number, it may not be very stable at that rate... but it's a helpful indicator).
 
toast0 said:
Does the webui look like this? If so, Current Rate in the DSL section is your sync rate (likely to be around 5000 in upstream and 25000 in downstream based on you saying it's 25/5), Max Rate is the modem's estimate for the fastest it could actually sync (although that's often not a realistic number, it may not be very stable at that rate... but it's a helpful indicator).
Click to expand...

Yes, that's it. I don't quite understand...is the sync rate just the same thing as the download and upload speed ? You mentioned before something about 8-9 to 22 ms.
 
Peat Moss said:
Yes, that's it. I don't quite understand...is the sync rate just the same thing as the download and upload speed ? You mentioned before something about 8-9 to 22 ms.
Click to expand...

Sync rate is basically download/upload speed, yeah; but max sync is a theoretical speed you could obtain if you weren't on a given speed tier -- if max sync is significantly higher than actual sync, your line is in good shape, and you don't need to take heroic measures to improve it. 8-9 to 22 ms is latency; there's not a lot you can do about latency, it depends on how your ISP provisions your line; U-Verse, which is the most common VDSL provider, doesn't have an option to provision for low latency (this was called 'fast path' vs 'interleaved' on ADSL), and I've seen reports than some other ISPs also only provision as interleaved for VDSL as well.
 
Why even ask for the best location if you've already decided to put it next to your computer regardless?
 
kumquat said:
Why even ask for the best location if you've already decided to put it next to your computer regardless?
Click to expand...

I haven't 100% decided that. And when I started the thread, I wasn't sure at all, because I didn't have the dsl connection installed yet and didn't know what the speeds would be like, or how the distance would affect the speed.

Is there a problem?
 
Last edited:
Nenu said:
Did you mean "isnt" ?
Click to expand...

No -- if he has a healthy, but speed tiered line, I would expect actual sync to be 25M/5M, and max sync to be much higher, something like at least 30M/7M would mean there's not a lot of point to shaving 50 feet off the line by moving the modem. Ex: one of my lines syncs at 25M/3M, with max sync of 40M/17M. If I move the modem closer, maybe I can get a higher max sync, but AT&T won't sell me a faster tier, so it doesn't really matter.
 
Just a question: has anyone here found and used some kind of phone line rectifier which features DSL bandwidth amplification and maybe correction?
I ask because I've seen huge differences between all the 4 or so modems I've owned.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top