Best Linux distro.. "best"..

[flu!d]

Easy for you because you're not new to Linux. If I asked the average user to type something similar in the Command Prompt in Windows I bet they would have just as much difficulty as they would in Linux.

If something doesnt "just work" then most cant be bothered with it.

I think the general consensus isnt "is this hard?" and more "is it an inconvenience and possibly difficult for the average windows user?" and I feel the answer is yes. For some this isnt an issue but Linux is always looking to expand their userbase and undermine the great Microsoft band even little things like this will prevent that every time.

Most of the time you search for the application you want, the developer website has the commands listed for adding the PPA, updating the PPA and downloading the application - You just copy/paste into the terminal, and quite often even this remarkably simple procedure isn't needed, you just download the .deb file and install in exactly the same way you would under Windows.

Bear in mind that I've only been running Linux full time for two years now. I don't understand this blind fear mentality of being almost incapable of learning something new and switching from Windows? However, it has to be stated that I'm from a time before GUI's even existed.

 

[auntjemima]

As I stated at the beginning. It isn't hard for you doesn't mean it isn't hard for others. Not all people in this world have the same ability to pick things like this up quickly.

I have no issue, but I know many that would.

 

[Zarathustra[H]]

Totally agree with you here. Until recently, I was a sysadmin at an accounting firm. If you suggested to the accountants that they use an open source alternative to excel, they would laugh in your face.

LibreOffice Calc is actually a very good alternative to Excel. The problem is with cross-compatibility. Same can be said for Writer (word equivalent) and Impress (Powerpoint equivalent).

When you work with open document formats only, they can do everything I want to do that proper Office does.

They still have some small problems playing nice with documents that are opened and saved by Office users. The problems are small, but enough to be really annoying when they occur.

 

[swatbat]

LibreOffice Calc is actually a very good alternative to Excel. The problem is with cross-compatibility. Same can be said for Writer (word equivalent) and Impress (Powerpoint equivalent).

When you work with open document formats only, they can do everything I want to do that proper Office does.

They still have some small problems playing nice with documents that are opened and saved by Office users. The problems are small, but enough to be really annoying when they occur.

I have accountants that still use lotus 123 for a lot of things. The last version officially supports xp sp2 when patched if I'm not mistaken. We bought a bunch of licenses when it was being dropped for them to keep it going. Compatibility is something people take very serious that libreoffice can't do. A shit load of lawyers still use corel word perfect. It is actually more expensive than office home and business now. All of the above have office as well. They use it to open office documents, work on newer excel docs, and for outlook which is the killer app for many. That and exchange are a force that many don't want to give up.

 

[B00nie]

The compatibility issues are easily resolved by asking the client to save the document to a different format in cases where it appears. In 99% of cases of my own experience libreoffice works just fine. If Office has been abused i.e. someone has made their own fancy 'applications' over it, you get a problem. But those are a problem always, regardless which office suite you use.

The biggest risk to a company is a home brew 'coder' who starts building home brew applications on top of office. The company often becomes dependent on those and nobody can fix them after the random engineer who built the thing leaves the company.

 

[flu!d]

As I stated at the beginning. It isn't hard for you doesn't mean it isn't hard for others. Not all people in this world have the same ability to pick things like this up quickly.

I have no issue, but I know many that would.

I'm sure there was a time when they knew nothing about Windows or Android or how to use their smart TV and they worked that out?!

You have to admit, when it comes to Linux there is a general blind fear and negativity surrounding the operating system that is fairly unfounded in modern packaged distro's.

People focus, with good reason due to the hardcore community that likes to exaggerate it's necessity, too much on the terminal IMHO - It's really not that necessary these days, and when it is just copy/paste.

 

[B00nie]

I'm sure there was a time when they knew nothing about Windows or Android or how to use their smart TV and they worked that out?!

You have to admit, when it comes to Linux there is a general blind fear and negativity surrounding the operating system that is fairly unfounded in modern packaged distro's.

People focus, with good reason due to the hardcore community that likes to exaggerate it's necessity, too much on the terminal IMHO - It's really not that necessary these days, and when it is just copy/paste.

I migrated both my parents and my father and mother in law to linux. My own family 4-5 years ago and last summer my in-laws. Modern linux does everything a regular user needs to do when it's configured ready for them.

 

[flu!d]

I migrated both my parents and my father and mother in law to linux. My own family 4-5 years ago and last summer my in-laws. Modern linux does everything a regular user needs to do when it's configured ready for them.

I've done the same. Honestly, I believe that 80% of PC users out there would get by just fine by dropping Windows for Linux.

My in laws love Linux, and it does everything they want it to do with less hassle.

 

[Zarathustra[H]]

I migrated both my parents and my father and mother in law to linux. My own family 4-5 years ago and last summer my in-laws. Modern linux does everything a regular user needs to do when it's configured ready for them.

I've done the same. Honestly, I believe that 80% of PC users out there would get by just fine by dropping Windows for Linux.

My in laws love Linux, and it does everything they want it to do with less hassle.

I've been considering this for years, but haven't gotten around to it yet.

It certainly would cut down on my workload when it comes to having to de-malware, and reinstall windows every couple of years.

I think Linux and included open source software would work just fine for them, but the things that have had me hesitating are as follows:

1. The "I just bought this software in the store and it won't install" phone call.
2. The "x button isn't in the exactly same place and I don't know what to do" phone call.

#1 is less and less of an issue, simply because people don't buy software in the store that often anymore.

#2 is still real though. As opposed to those of us who grew up with computers, and kind of develop a sixth sense for how to use user interfaces, regardless of their differences, the older gneerations that didn't use computers by memorizing cues and exact locations of things, and don't do well when anything changes, even remotely.

It's what I like to call the "admin effect". An administrative assistant might blow you away with how awesome they are at using Word 2010. They impress even you, a seasoned computer user with their proficiency in knowing exactly how to do X, Y and Z. But change ANYTHING (even the color of the theme for crying out loud) and they sit there as if paralyzed and can't figure out what to do, because it "looks different", where we would just poke around a little bit and figure it out in 10 seconds.

I guess among older computer users who didn't grow up with them, learning a sense of synonyms, equivalence and ambiguity of computers doesn't exist. They have a 0 tolerance for ambiguity.

I could probably train my parents to embrace Linux Mint with Cinnamon, Libre Office and Chrome (well, they already use Chrome in windows) over time, and it would be safer and more reliable for them, but I live 2 hours away by car. It would be easier if they were in the neighborhood.

 

[B00nie]

Heck if my mother could do it anyone can. When she calls me about the computer she doesn't even understand the concept of desktop.

She says 'when I go to the start'.
Me: Umm what?

'Yeah you know, start where you start to use the computer.'
Me: Uh, desktop?

'I don't know what desktop is!'

 

[scharfshutze009]

Look I didn't say the switch from windows to Linux would be easy and yes if the average user has to use the terminal or command-line they might not understand it and not want to use it. Therefore, expecting everything to work automatically or just work, but even Windows has moments where things don't just work, so just hang in there and use it as an alternative to WIndows if you must. Also with YUMI I've been able to use a multiboot flash drive to repair and access corrupted Windows installations. Keep in mind I still had to use YUMI with Windows iso's to repair windows when windows when it was just to complicated or easier to do with a windows disc because it was designed for it, but Linux helped.

If steam doesn't support all the games that are available on WIndows then use playOnLinux or stream them from a windows PC until they become available for Linux or help port them to Linux if you can. I kinda favor Debian and Ubuntu clones unintentionally because SteamOS is a debian distro and compatible was better due to this if not guaranteed.

Keep in mind that I am a network admin major with three associates in computer networking administration working on my bachelors and have a minor in programming, so of course it's not going to be as easy as it is for me as it would be for the average user. I was just sharing how to do just a few things that I discovered with my own system.

What needs to happen is for someone in computer science like LInus Torvalds to make Linux easier to use, but perhaps it may not happen with these free distro's and needs to be more like Redhat. Give donations if you can too, which I'm sure will help because these computer scientists and programmers need something to live off of while they make this possible for end users.

Valve and Gabe Newell are helping to bring gaming to Linux, like never before even if some of it is restricted to SteamOS.

 

[B00nie]

Look I didn't say the switch from windows to Linux would be easy and yes if the average user has to use the terminal or command-line they might not understand it and not want to use it.

There is no need for an average user to use the terminal anymore. Only the person administrating the computer may need to do that for convenience (but in most cases, not even then).

 

[flu!d]

Valve and Gabe Newell are helping to bring gaming to Linux, like never before even if some of it is restricted to SteamOS.

Everything available for SteamOS should be available for most Linux Distro's, especially Debian based ones. What titles are restricted to SteamOS only?

I use my very expensive Windows machine less and less these days, I just cannot believe how good a free OS can be and as a result just cannot justify the cost of Windows. I'm currently running the Enterprise Evaluation of W10 on my Windows PC, and I'm thinking I might just piss Windows off altogether when the evaluation runs out.

Take note of the fact that I have no problem paying for software and an more than capable of doing so, however I have to justify purchases in order to move forward in this greed infested/taxed into submission society we live in today and I just cannot justify the paid alternative based on it's merits alone.

 

[bob616]

Heck if my mother could do it anyone can. When she calls me about the computer she doesn't even understand the concept of desktop.

She says 'when I go to the start'.
Me: Umm what?

'Yeah you know, start where you start to use the computer.'
Me: Uh, desktop?

'I don't know what desktop is!'

Are you bugging my phone? Almost verbatim what I get with my mom, though at 82 I give her a lot of credit for just having two computers and using the Internet daily. She has learned (usually) to check all the cables are plugged in though first before she calls. Though last time it was:
"I can't watch a movie."
Me: "well is the hard drive plugged into the wall?"
5 minutes later "yes",
"Well did you plug in the cable that goes from the drive to the computer?"
"Oh, I forgot."
"Well why don't we set it up wirelessly like I keep saying."
"I still haven't found the box with the thing in it you had me order."

 

[michalrz]

I just don't understand what is so difficult about:

sudo add-apt-repository ppa:<ppa_name>

It's difficult because you have to do it. Present a typical user with, say, 3 of such procedures you mentioned and he WILL fuck up the syntax, paste the website into the terminal (which, when you're root, can have hilariously devastating effects), get bored and leave.

I have used Linuxes (?) since around Ubuntu 5.04 and there's something else I'll add. I am a person who, among other things, tuned his cool'n'quiet source file to be more aggresive. I had regularly messed around with recompiling kernels, various desktop environments, the works. I do use it at work, having to reboot them maybe once a year.

But when I see this:

sudo add-apt-repository ppa:<ppa_name>

My thoughts are:
- am I in the sudoers group? do I even have sudo?
- non-standard repositories prepared by various software vendors were already there, why the need to add yet another acronym (ppa)?
- there's apt-get, apt-cache, so why name it add-apt...? Why not apt-add-repo?
- do I need the '<>' brackets?

Sadly it's very hard for us in the know to be able to recall what was it like learning this stuff and recall which steps need fixing.

 

[jwcalla]

Typical users shouldn't have to do stuff like that... but typical users are more in the ChromeOS and Android and OS X wheelhouse, where none of that stuff is necessary. There really are no other companies out there making a "desktop-like" Linux distro out there. Companies that have Linux desktops only really do it to support their enterprises environments. Or, like Canonical, have moved on to phones and crap.

But for [H] types I think that living w/o the terminal is like living without air. Whenever I have to work on Windows I feel extremely limited, mostly because of the lack of a real terminal / command line shell. For me it is far easier to do some things with the command line than to hop through all the GUI hoops.

 

[michalrz]

But for [H] types I think that living w/o the terminal is like living without air. Whenever I have to work on Windows I feel extremely limited, mostly because of the lack of a real terminal / command line shell. For me it is far easier to do some things with the command line than to hop through all the GUI hoops.

I do like it for large scripted migrations or backups.

But how about management of, say, virtual machines? That's one of the few examples you really want a set of columns looking at you showing outright the resources consumed by each node. Or even creation and launching VMs - imagine having to pass so much info with so much keywords just right. I just use htop for monitoring of the hypervisor via putty, but I create them on a desktop Debian install using virt-manager.

For Windows there's wmic that gives you some out of the box access to higher level administrative tasks. You can use those in regular batch scripts if you don't want/need Powershell. It has an SQL from what I see.

 

[Zarathustra[H]]

But when I see this:


My thoughts are:
- am I in the sudoers group? do I even have sudo?
- non-standard repositories prepared by various software vendors were already there, why the need to add yet another acronym (ppa)?
- there's apt-get, apt-cache, so why name it add-apt...? Why not apt-add-repo?
- do I need the '<>' brackets?

Sadly it's very hard for us in the know to be able to recall what was it like learning this stuff and recall which steps need fixing.

Firstly, this CAN also be done using the GUI package manager... It's just that for us who are comfortable with the console, that is more convenient.

Secondly, if you are not in the sudoers group, you can't install software anyway, so whats the point of being able to add a third party repository? It's sort of like having a user only account in Windows without local machine admin privileges.

IMHO, for most basic grandmother type users who don't do anything fancy, modern linux distributions are just as easy to use as any Windows/Mac system.

Also, most advanced users will have an easy time with the console and find it more convenient, and be very frustrated with the windows GUI way to doing things.

Where linux fails is for the in between group. The people who are advanced enough to be installing their own software outside of what is in the official repository "app store", but not seasoned enough to be perfectly comfortable with the command line. Most of this can be accomplished from within the GUI, but most Linux forum dwellers who give advice are going to tell you how to do it in the console, because that's how they do it.


Linux has many advantages, among them are:

• Free
• Free software
• More secure
• More stable
• Infinitely customizeable
• Actually MUCH easier and faster to install than Windows
• Runs well on older hardware
• Makes more sense for a tinkerer than Windows does, as you can modify or script almost anything with ease
• Unified updates for all software in a single update manager
• Grandmother friendly
• IT friendly to advanced users. Some tasks that take hours or days in Windows can be done in minutes, due to the open nature of how everything comes together, and the full capability of the console.

Example: I was able to convert my linux install from BIOS/MRB to UEFI/GPT in minutes by booting up from a live USB rescue stick, chrooting into my install, and following a quick guide online.

3 days later I am still fighting Windows 10 to try to get it to work without reinstalling it.


It's not without its downsides though:

• Software compatibility: You can't just buy that copy of turbo-tax in the store and install it.
• Kernel driver model, combined with needing to reverse engineer a lot of hardware results in slow hardware compatibility if you are a fan of buying the latest hardware.
• Lag between upstream kernel/software development and what winds up in distributions exacerbates this problem.
• Difficult to perform more advanced tasks for the "medium" user.
• Fans of certain specific software may have to put up with "work-alikes" or run them in a virtual machine, or fight the evil Wine system to try to get it to work.
• While improving, disappointing games availability, and features

Example:

My Broadwell based HTPC STILL does not have full featured GPU video acceleration downstream in current distribution releases, making me either rely on various alpha driver and software PPA's and deal with the instability, or put up with suboptimal decoding of video.

Fixed, hopefuly soon?


Each system has its advantages.

I have pretty much replaced Windows entirely with Linux at this point, except for games. Games are the only reason I still dual boot to Windows.

I also maintain a virtual machine in Linux for the rare occurrence when I absolutely need to run Windows software, but I load it up less and less frequenty as time goes by. The only real culprits that remain are Office documents that render improperly in Libre-office, having to manage my free-license ESXi server, and the only client to do so with is windows based,

No one is claiming that Linux is perfect. It isn't. Those of us who use it as our primary OS are well aware of this fact, more than anyone else. It's just that we have weighed the pro's and con's, and we believe that despite not being perfect, for our usage it beats the alternative.

 

[heatlesssun]

Linux has many advantages, among them are:

• Free
• Free software
• More secure
• More stable
• Infinitely customizeable
• Actually MUCH easier and faster to install than Windows
• Runs well on older hardware
• Makes more sense for a tinkerer than Windows does, as you can modify or script almost anything with ease
• Unified updates for all software in a single update manager
• Grandmother friendly
• IT friendly to advanced users. Some tasks that take hours or days in Windows can be done in minutes, due to the open nature of how everything comes together, and the full capability of the console.

This is where sometimes Linux folks back themselves into a corner. There's tons of free software for Windows, much if not most of the same free stuff for Linux is available for Windows and OS X. Much easier to install, much faster, more stable, those are just claims that cannot be made in general. For non-new basic hardware for people with basic needs it should be ok. Definitely one would need to do some research and testing for newer hardware that came with Windows especially touch, tablet or hybrid hardware.

 

[michalrz]

Firstly, this CAN also be done using the GUI package manager... It's just that for us who are comfortable with the console, that is more convenient.

Oh, pardon me, didn't check the new ones out except headless KVM/QEMU servers. But the command is a good example of what kind of trouble novice users bump into.

I'm seeing that the most times non-IT people resort to googling out a command line spell is when a workaround is needed for some propertiary device to work.

Administration and productivity is indeed command-line free if your hardware is compatible.

Secondly, if you are not in the sudoers group, you can't install software anyway, so whats the point of being able to add a third party repository? It's sort of like having a user only account in Windows without local machine admin privileges.

I've just logged in as root, commented out the privileges directive and logged out.
Then I've logged in as my regular self and indeed it wouldn't let me as I wasn't in sudoers.
So I entered 'su root', then my password and I had a root shell.
With that I could either use the CLI of the package manager, or simply enter the name of the GUI-enabled version of it.
But you're right it's a stretched argument. Though I've seen people mess their installs so bad they were missing from many important files

IMHO, for most basic grandmother type users who don't do anything fancy, modern linux distributions are just as easy to use as any Windows/Mac system.

Seeing as they won't be able to recover from a Windows problem neither, and they don't need some particulars like Photoshop or Office then I agree wholeheartedly.

Where linux fails is for the in between group. The people who are advanced enough to be installing their own software outside of what is in the official repository "app store", but not seasoned enough to be perfectly comfortable with the command line. Most of this can be accomplished from within the GUI, but most Linux forum dwellers who give advice are going to tell you how to do it in the console, because that's how they do it.

Where possible, I would too advise power users to use the CLI wherever feasible because of the risk of the GUI part going haywire and corrupting the file.

Yeah, I too have used Linux solely for years. Now it's just whatever. I don't really see the OS, especially in KDE3.5 days. Well, now that I've ditched Photoshop for RAW Therapee I could very well just switch. But, hey, my XP still runs fine.

Also, I have a few 'embedded' sort of ideas in mind and if Linux wasn't around, I wouldn't even consider them. Now I can just get a computing stick, SSH to it and have it do stuff with bash scripts in cron. For friggin' free and super stable. That is an underestimated treasure.

 

[Zarathustra[H]]

This is where sometimes Linux folks back themselves into a corner. There's tons of free software for Windows, much if not most of the same free stuff for Linux is available for Windows and OS X. Much easier to install, much faster, more stable, those are just claims that cannot be made in general. For non-new basic hardware for people with basic needs it should be ok. Definitely one would need to do some research and testing for newer hardware that came with Windows especially touch, tablet or hybrid hardware.

I don't know about the easier to install bit.

For most software, it's a matter of opening the GUI Software center (essentially a free App store) searching for the program you want, double clicking entering your password, and waiting for it to download and install.

For non-repository software there is the additional step of adding a third party repository, but most people won't have to do this.

Technically, you can just copy in the binaries and run them in Linux just like you can with Windows, but Linux uses the Repository made because it is so much superior in managing your entire installed software base and making sure it is all up to date, rather than having a mix of Microsoft software that Windows Update handles, other software that all have their own homebrew software update managers (some of which don't even work, like the java one, which only works if you are running in an Admin account. Elevate privileges from a user account and it fails) and software with no update managers at all, which you have to manually look for updates for.

It's noteworthy that it is installed software - not the operating systems themselves - that are responsible for most vulnerabilities that can lead to malware and virus infestation, and possibly identity or credit card theft. Thus it can not be understated how hugely important it is to overall system security to have a system that manages all your installed software and lets you know when there are updates in one place.

Keeping your system and all its installed software up to date in a windows environment is an exhaustive effort, and thus even experienced users miss some security updates, and then you have the average user who doesn't stay on top of it at all...

 

[heatlesssun]

Keeping your system and all its installed software up to date in a windows environment is an exhaustive effort, and thus even experienced users miss some security updates, and then you have the average user who doesn't stay on top of it at all...

Hmmm. For all of the complaints about Windows 10's forced updates at least missing them isn't an issue. Flash is updated by Windows Update, in fact a Flash security update was just pushed the other day. Steam updates its games, nVidia updates its drivers, most commercial software with no Linux equivalent self-updates that I use. The process isn't centralized but exhaustive? It might take a while after a fresh install on a Windows system, downloading gigs of games on Steam takes tons of time even on faster connections. But it's really mostly a matter of waiting, doesn't really require much effort or thought.

 

[flu!d]

Hmmm. For all of the complaints about Windows 10's forced updates at least missing them isn't an issue. Flash is updated by Windows Update, in fact a Flash security update was just pushed the other day. Steam updates its games, nVidia updates its drivers, most commercial software with no Linux equivalent self-updates that I use. The process isn't centralized but exhaustive? It might take a while after a fresh install on a Windows system, downloading gigs of games on Steam takes tons of time even on faster connections. But it's really mostly a matter of waiting, doesn't really require much effort or thought.

Most of the time all forced updates achieves in Windows is to completely stuff everything.

As a user of both operating systems Linux craps all over Windows when it comes to automatically keeping software up to date.

 

[heatlesssun]

As a user of both operating systems Linux craps all over Windows when it comes to automatically keeping software up to date.

The problem is that it's pretty hard to equate desktop Linux and Windows in terms of software and hardware support. Most of the software and hardware I run have no Linux equivalent nor support. It's 2015, you simply can't install Linux and get the same capabilities as Windows. It's not there, it's never has been. I doubt it ever will be.

I say the same thing about Windows phones. The support isn't there and never will be. I don't know why some just can't accept the truth as go from there. If desktop Linux does the job, great. I'm not saying that it can't. But on the desktop it's no where close to Windows beyond the basics because of 3rd party support. Just like a Windows phone.

Android is the new Windows. And desktop Linux is the new Windows phone. It's just that simple. Don't know why people over think it.

 

[Zarathustra[H]]

The problem is that it's pretty hard to equate desktop Linux and Windows in terms of software and hardware support. Most of the software and hardware I run have no Linux equivalent nor support. It's 2015, you simply can't install Linux and get the same capabilities as Windows. It's not there, it's never has been. I doubt it ever will be.

I say the same thing about Windows phones. The support isn't there and never will be. I don't know why some just can't accept the truth as go from there. If desktop Linux does the job, great. I'm not saying that it can't. But on the desktop it's no where close to Windows beyond the basics because of 3rd party support. Just like a Windows phone.

Android is the new Windows. And desktop Linux is the new Windows phone. It's just that simple. Don't know why people over think it.

Sure, if you are narrow minded, and unwilling to try new things, then yes, that is the case.

If you absolutely have to have Photoshop and nothing else will do, then Linux isn't for you. More reasonable people might try GIMP and be happy with it.

If you absolutely have to have Microsoft Office and nothing else will do, then Linux isn't for you. More reasonable people might try Libre Office and be perfectly happy with it.

For almost everything you want to do in Windows, there is a perfectly acceptable alternative in Linux, and in many cases it is even better than what is available in Windows.

But I get it. Some people are narrow minded and have their minds set on one exact piece of software and only that exact piece of software, and nothing else will do. And for them, they should probably use either Windows or OSX.

 

[kumquat]

Most of the time all forced updates achieves in Windows is to completely stuff everything.

As a user of both operating systems Linux craps all over Windows when it comes to automatically keeping software up to date.

That's because distros have central repositories of software packages and versions. Imagine an official Microsoft software respository.

 

[kumquat]

Sure, if you are narrow minded, and unwilling to try new things, then yes, that is the case.

If you absolutely have to have Photoshop and nothing else will do, then Linux isn't for you. More reasonable people might try GIMP and be happy with it.

If you absolutely have to have Microsoft Office and nothing else will do, then Linux isn't for you. More reasonable people might try Libre Office and be perfectly happy with it.

For almost everything you want to do in Windows, there is a perfectly acceptable alternative in Linux, and in many cases it is even better than what is available in Windows.

But I get it. Some people are narrow minded and have their minds set on one exact piece of software and only that exact piece of software, and nothing else will do. And for them, they should probably use either Windows or OSX.

Calling someone narrow-minded for not being willing to accept significantly inferior software packages and more limited software options for no good reason whatsoever is... interesting.

 

[Zarathustra[H]]

Calling someone narrow-minded for not being willing to accept significantly inferior software packages and more limited software options for no good reason whatsoever is... interesting.

Different, yes.

Inferior? That's an opinion.

I think they are superior in many ways.

 

[heatlesssun]

Sure, if you are narrow minded, and unwilling to try new things, then yes, that is the case.

I'm perfectly willing to try new things, it's how I make a living.

If you absolutely have to have Photoshop and nothing else will do, then Linux isn't for you. More reasonable people might try GIMP and be happy with it.

GIMP runs fine on Windows.

If you absolutely have to have Microsoft Office and nothing else will do, then Linux isn't for you. More reasonable people might try Libre Office and be perfectly happy with it.

Libre Office runs fine on Windows.

For almost everything you want to do in Windows, there is a perfectly acceptable alternative in Linux, and in many cases it is even better than what is available in Windows.

You just listed two alternatives that run fine on Windows. So why give up everything that doesn't run on Linux for stuff that's been supported on Windows for years?

But I get it. Some people are narrow minded and have their minds set on one exact piece of software and only that exact piece of software, and nothing else will do. And for them, they should probably use either Windows or OSX.

I get it as well. Linux folks have an agenda that has little to do with technical merit. There's no reason to give up Windows for things run on Windows. Windows is just the best supported desktop OS by far. Why would I tell someone to give up the vast ecosystem of Android to run that of the vastly inferior Windows phone? I wouldn't. The desktop wars are so long ago done. Windows won. Linux, well Android, has won the phone. It's done. It's over. The phone is a more important space anyway. Why care about the desktop that's legacy if you're a Linux fan and Linux, well Android, won the #1 client space there is right now?

 

[kumquat]

Different, yes.

Inferior? That's an opinion.

I think they are superior in many ways.

No, it's a fact that GIMP is far inferior to Photoshop. It doesn't even handle RAW files at all. It's not even as useful as Paint.net for most people. Linux has no halfway decent photo processing or workflow software. Decent video editing is likewise nonexistent.

There is no equivalent at all to OneNote. The PDF annotation/markup options are awful compared to their Windows counterparts.

Yes, for a lot of people Linux is fine. But let's not pretend that as a desktop environment Linux is separate but equal in terms of app availability, functionality, and maturity.

 

[heatlesssun]

Inferior? That's an opinion.

In terms of 3rd party support, yes desktop Linux is inferior to Windows. As Windows phone is inferior to Android, the new Windows. It's really not even a thing to debate beyond hardcore folks that refuse to accept reality.

 

[heatlesssun]

There is no equivalent at all to OneNote. The PDF annotation/markup options are awful compared to their Windows counterparts.

This is a something that I will not give up. If there is no equivalent to this on my desktop platform that doesn't support tablets and ink it's non-negotiable. Just like the person that would never switch to a Windows phone because of lack of a certain app.

 

[flu!d]

Yes, for a lot of people Linux is fine. But let's not pretend that as a desktop environment Linux is separate but equal in terms of app availability, functionality, and maturity.

MS Office, Photoshop...These are applications, these are not a desktop environment.

As far as desktop environments are concerned Linux is by far superior to Windows.

 

[B00nie]

Calling someone narrow-minded for not being willing to accept significantly inferior software packages and more limited software options for no good reason whatsoever is... interesting.

They may be a bit harder to use but on the other hand they're free.

 

[B00nie]

This is a something that I will not give up. If there is no equivalent to this on my desktop platform that doesn't support tablets and ink it's non-negotiable. Just like the person that would never switch to a Windows phone because of lack of a certain app.

Just out of interest, what do you use onenote for? I just checked the web site and I couldn't think of any use for it personally.

There are a gazillion 'sticky notes' etc. apps available if one needs them.

 

[heatlesssun]

Just out of interest, what do you use onenote for? I just checked the web site and I couldn't think of any use for it personally.

There are a gazillion 'sticky notes' etc. apps available if one needs them.

Comparing OneNote to a sticky notes app is like comparing Word to Notepad. I've been using OneNote for well over a decade. It's more of a database than a note taking application. Anything information that I need to refer to later I keep in OneNote, be it a web page, a file, an image or scan or handwriting or text.

There are a number of people on this forum that swear by OneNote. When you get the hang of it's the type of app that becomes important to people and they won't give it up.

 

[kumquat]

Just out of interest, what do you use onenote for? I just checked the web site and I couldn't think of any use for it personally.

There are a gazillion 'sticky notes' etc. apps available if one needs them.

Sticky notes? That's.. not what OneNote is at all. I use it for note-taking at med school, as well as collecting and organizing other random info.

For school, we have a few lectures every day in PDF format. I print the PDFs to OneNote and then mark them up, draw on them, make text notes on them, screen clip things into them, etc. It's all searchable and organized in a hierarchical fashion (notebook -> tab -> page). I have one large notebook for school, with a tab for each theme (Neuroscience, Gastrointestinal, Respiratory, etc) with each page either a printout of a lecture's PDF, or review/consolidation pages with notes and drawings and clippings of critical info.

Then I have another notebook where I collect and organize random info. I have a tab with a dozen pages for information on residency positions, a tab with pages on info about my network setup, computer configurations, etc. It brings together drawings, PDFs, text, and pictures in a big cohesive searchable way.

OneNote is amazing.

 

[jwcalla]

How did we even get on another one of these idiotic tangents in a thread about Linux distros in the Linux forum?

Some people prefer (and need) Windows for whatever they do. Some people prefer (or need) Linux for whatever they do. It really isn't more complicated than that.

For some people, Windows provides the best solution. For others (like myself) the best solution is Linux.

 

[heatlesssun]

For some people, Windows provides the best solution. For others (like myself) the best solution is Linux.

And this is perfectly reasonable. Linux folks sometimes try to way oversell Linux and act as though people using Windows are just lazy or stupid. Sure some are but many like myself have spent a LOT of time working with Linux. I used to a lot back in the late 90s and early 00s when many were thinking that Linux was going to take over the desktop. Well that didn't happen isn't likely to. If one wants to use topline software like OneNote Windows is what you're going to use.

 

[kumquat]

I use Linux all the time. I run servers with it and have it installed on some client desktops. I try it out for personal desktop every now and then and it never sticks.