Best LCD without lottery, 22" wide or 20" 4:3

Eickst

[H]ard|Gawd
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Aug 24, 2005
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Looking at getting a 22" wide or 20" 4:3. I've been reading the forums here and it seems that the LCDs keep turning into lotteries with which panel you get.

My budget is about $450 for a monitor.

Please help me out guys, LCD panel technology is not exactly one of my strong points.


BTW, this is replacing a Viewsonic G90FB 19" CRT. It's for gaming and general browsing but I don't want to buy a model where I *might* get a good panel and might not. I'd rather pay more and get a good panel.

Thanks in advance
 

spincut

[H]ard|Gawd
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Jan 19, 2005
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the conclusion i came to was the Viewsonic VX2025wm (yeah it's 20 wide and not 22).......but it's discontinued......life's funny like that huh?
 

PoorBehavior

Limp Gawd
Joined
Oct 23, 2004
Messages
312
I just went through the same process.
A lot of people are complaining about the current 22" TN panels.
Most seem to complain about color reproduction and a flat, less vibrant image, viewing angle and light bleed.
I replaced a 21"CRT.
I am very critical of my monitors, I wish I wasn't.
I found that in store it is hard to determine anything.
I picked up a Chiemei 22" and after a week or so of playing with it this is what I found that correlated to what I saw when doing my research.

Forum Comment
Viewing angles on TN's SUCK!
Interpretation
If you lean in the left and right edges/sides of a white screen look dim. If you sit too close or below the screen the same applies. On most things that have color you will not notice unless you are six inches from the screen. If you like having your web pages spread from edge to edge you will notice it.

Forum Comment
TN panel colors SUCK! and the image is flat.
Personal Experience
After adjusting the brightness, gamma, and contrast in my video cards control panel and playing with the LCD's OSD I have no complaints about the color. The LCD can get extremely bright and I have no doubt that I will be able to dial in the settings to my personal preference. I notice that when the panel brightness is set to a comfortable level that whites are not as whites on a S-IPS panel. It does not bother me too much, YMMV.

Forum Comment
The current 22" s are having a lot of light bleed problems, it SUCKS!
Personal Experience
Every panel is going to be different.
I have some bezel bleed along the top and bottom. Probably considered minor. I notice when I look for it, it would be a problem if it was worse and I think that I would be a lot happier if it was not there at all.

I think that if you are very picky about quality and size is not an issue as much then go for a more expensive, non TN LCD. Everyone praises the quality of the NEC's and the Sony's look very nice as well, not sure of the tech there but in the store they looked beautiful.

If you can live with the above then a 22" would be fantastic. There are better options out there though.
JMHO
 

Eickst

[H]ard|Gawd
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To be honest I probably wouldn't notice a difference. I was looking at the Samsung 226BW but it seems there are two different panels it could come with. I'd hate to buy one and end up with the A panel instead of the S. Too bad I can't open the box first and take a peek....
 

Digital Viper-X-

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for $450 I think you can snag the NEC 20WGMX2, no lottery there, its pricey but its probably one of the best screens you will look at with this gen of LCDS
 

Eickst

[H]ard|Gawd
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What about the Dell 2007WFP?

Its only 20" widescreen, when I looked at that size monitor in the store it was too short for my tastes. The 22" widescreen is as tall as a 19" LCD but with a few more inches on the side.

I really don't care about widescreen. I think I am going to just look for a 20" 4:3 with a S-IPS panel.

I'm going to look into the HP LP2065
 

freezer

n00b
Joined
Nov 20, 2003
Messages
63
Im running into the same issues. So many issues around these lcds it seems. I bent on getting a wide screen but not ready to lay down the extra $$$ for the 24"

I was thinking about going down to CC or BB and see if i can find a 22" "S" pannel.
 

blargman

n00b
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Sep 18, 2006
Messages
23
VX2025wm == vx2030wm if u want a non-discontinued lcd. Its the same lcd with an upgraded stand. very good lcd from what i've read.
 

Eickst

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Aug 24, 2005
Messages
1,884
Im running into the same issues. So many issues around these lcds it seems. I bent on getting a wide screen but not ready to lay down the extra $$$ for the 24"

I was thinking about going down to CC or BB and see if i can find a 22" "S" pannel.


Is there a way to determine the panel from the outside of the box? I read in the thread for that monitor that you couldn't tell without looking at the back of it.
 

freezer

n00b
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Nov 20, 2003
Messages
63
not that I know of. Think if you find one that was shiped to the store early feb then you have a better chance.
 

Snowdog

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Forum Comment
Viewing angles on TN's SUCK!
Interpretation
If you lean in the left and right edges/sides of a white screen look dim. If you sit too close or below the screen the same applies. On most things that have color you will not notice unless you are six inches from the screen. If you like having your web pages spread from edge to edge you will notice it.

Forum Comment
TN panel colors SUCK! and the image is flat.
Personal Experience
After adjusting the brightness, gamma, and contrast in my video cards control panel and playing with the LCD's OSD I have no complaints about the color. The LCD can get extremely bright and I have no doubt that I will be able to dial in the settings to my personal preference.

I will add my own two cents as I am also quite picky. I have owned two VA and one TN panel. I will only buy IPS in the future.

Viewing angles:
TN panel viewing angles in the horizontal are actually more stable than VA. VA actually gives me a headache because it is so bad horizontally. TN I can tolerate. TN is even worse in the vertical though. I was comparing image output of two resize programs yesterday and though WTF that one is way darker. I was comparing them one on top of the other. A complete no-no in TN. Here is TN displaying a solid background color, not a gradient. It is pale near the bottom of the screen and nearly black at the top. This is dead centered on the monitor.
http://i5.pbase.com/o5/04/606404/1/70038474.RUGnlXjd.TN_Shift.jpg
So yes TN viewing angles suck but I find them better than MVA/PVA which shift in every direction.

Color:
You need to be clear. My TN looks great, looks better than any of my recent CRT's. BUT it is 6bit with frc. It will show BANDING in any banding test. And it does crop up time to in games, images etc. If you watch movies in the dark, black/shadows suck on all LCDs.

Bottom line. The best panel technology is IPS. It has superior viewing angle behaviors to both TN and VA. It always had excellent 8 bit color reproduction. If you are truly picky this is what you want.

But if weird tone shifts, banding, and similar don't bother you, get yourself a cheap TN and be happy that you aren't that picky.
 

Eickst

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
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Messages
1,884
Thanks for the comments, I am pretty set on an S-IPS panel at this point, so the 22" widescreens are out.

I am seriously considering the HP LP2065 but now I see that they might have their own lottery started. Great.
 

PurpleDiamond

Weaksauce
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Apr 11, 2003
Messages
127
I am also looking for a wide LCD but after reading about the avaliable options in the 22" market and it seems like I will have to go with a 21" like the Samsung 215TW.

Any suggestions?
 

Eickst

[H]ard|Gawd
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That has a PVA panel I think.

Oh man, I thought I had enough acronyms already without having to get into LCD shopping.
 

blargman

n00b
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Sep 18, 2006
Messages
23
@snowdog & @eickst

what do you want to do with the panel?

it breaks down to 4 categories, which really leads to 2 different types of panels, depending on your main use

movies
games
photo/image editing
office

If you want the best when it comes to viewing angles, true color reproduction and fast response times that are as good as any TN panel. Go for a S-IPS or AS-IPS panel (dell 2007wfp or NEC LCD20WGX2. These are the best for a gamer and someone who wants to use it on a day to day basis. If you want bigger, I've heard good things about the 23" HP L2335. Most S-IPS panels you'll find are 20" but there are a few 23" inchers out there.

As I've found out through looking around, if you want it to do movies well, with very little noise and twinkling, then P-MVA is your choice. The best of which in a 24" size is the Benq FP241w. There are alot more P-MVA panels in 20" size.

Most ppl here would go for a AS-IPS I imagine. Personally I'm shopping for an LCD that will be used mostly has an office work panel and a movie watching panel.

My question for you snowdog is you say you've seen 2 "VA" panels. Were these P-MVA or Samsung S-PVA ? I'd guess the latter
 

PurpleDiamond

Weaksauce
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Messages
127
Since I plan on keeping the monitor for a long time, I am willing to spend more and get a better product. I want something larger than a 20", but 24" is too big for me. Are there any IPS monitors larger than 20"?

BTW I do mostly gaming and office work.
 

Digital Viper-X-

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Messages
14,785
Since I plan on keeping the monitor for a long time, I am willing to spend more and get a better product. I want something larger than a 20", but 24" is too big for me. Are there any IPS monitors larger than 20"?

BTW I do mostly gaming and office work.


if you are willing to spend a bit more get the NEC :D !

23" are S-IPS panels, so are the 30s
 

tightline

Limp Gawd
Joined
Sep 16, 2006
Messages
249
I will add my own two cents as I am also quite picky. I have owned two VA and one TN panel. I will only buy IPS in the future.

Viewing angles:
TN panel viewing angles in the horizontal are actually more stable than VA. VA actually gives me a headache because it is so bad horizontally. TN I can tolerate. TN is even worse in the vertical though. I was comparing image output of two resize programs yesterday and though WTF that one is way darker. I was comparing them one on top of the other. A complete no-no in TN. Here is TN displaying a solid background color, not a gradient. It is pale near the bottom of the screen and nearly black at the top. This is dead centered on the monitor.
http://i5.pbase.com/o5/04/606404/1/70038474.RUGnlXjd.TN_Shift.jpg
So yes TN viewing angles suck but I find them better than MVA/PVA which shift in every direction.

Color:
You need to be clear. My TN looks great, looks better than any of my recent CRT's. BUT it is 6bit with frc. It will show BANDING in any banding test. And it does crop up time to in games, images etc. If you watch movies in the dark, black/shadows suck on all LCDs.

Bottom line. The best panel technology is IPS. It has superior viewing angle behaviors to both TN and VA. It always had excellent 8 bit color reproduction. If you are truly picky this is what you want.

But if weird tone shifts, banding, and similar don't bother you, get yourself a cheap TN and be happy that you aren't that picky.

LOL Snowdog you forgot to tell him the problems with IPS.

1. Cost - cost at least twice as much for a decent one with 100% guarnteed IPS like
19" 1990FX $500
20" 2090UXi $1000
20" 20WMGX2 $600
26" 2690WUXI $1600
30" HC 3007 or HP 3065 $1700-$1900

All expensive as hell or you can take your chance with Dell lotto and their substandard electronics.

2. Rarity - People buy on price and size despite what they claim (quality). (See OP: "My budget is about $450 for a monitor." ) IPS's are hard to find in retail space - too expensive and wont move so they are not stocked. Even online hard to find a wide selection at any X resolution they make up a small fraction of monitors.. B&M is out of the question making sampling and returns difficult.

3. Heat and power - they use as much power as a CRT of equal size.

4. purple haze viewed black background off center.

I will only buy IPS in the future.

No you won't. IPS will be extinct by the time you buck up and buy one.:p In three years all will be TN and MVA.
 
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