Right now for college, I am looking at some kind of Business Information Systems type course (like working with computer hardware and networking the most). The thing is I'm not sure how many jobs are available for this field or if it is even the best IT field to go into at this time. What would you guys suggest?
![[H]ard|Forum](/styles/hardforum/xenforo/logo_dark.png){kind=logo}
Best IT field to get a degree in?
- Thread starter gta95
- Start date
dragontales
Limp Gawd
- Joined
- Aug 13, 2002
- Messages
- 404
I hate to break it to you but the job market is really bad right now and many IT jobs are outsourced or given to visa workers from India or whatever country. Why would I pay you 70k to do the work when someone else is willing to take 30k right? You can get plenty of information on IT at dice.com.
requiemnoise
Gawd
- Joined
- Aug 6, 2008
- Messages
- 726
The tech boom died when we finished creating a better internet infrastructure. People can work anywhere now. This isn't just a tech issue. You can hire a math tutor in China, secretary from India, or even an entire factory oversea.
One job that will never change or go away is a database admin. One who can tweak few codes and babysit these local servers. Dba salaries always seem to be always go up in the past two decades. Most complex software coding is all done oversea. But, the market for business database analysts, project managers, DBAs, network architects, network auditors, and security analysts are still very high. These jobs require local personals who understand their business.
One job that will never change or go away is a database admin. One who can tweak few codes and babysit these local servers. Dba salaries always seem to be always go up in the past two decades. Most complex software coding is all done oversea. But, the market for business database analysts, project managers, DBAs, network architects, network auditors, and security analysts are still very high. These jobs require local personals who understand their business.
Ur_Mom
Fully [H]
- Joined
- May 15, 2006
- Messages
- 20,688
Get a computer science degree. It will allow you to work in networking, programming, management, PC repair, system administration, etc.... It's a one size fits all, pretty much. A lot of theory and problem solving.
But, the job market is lower right now, but not what I would call bad. Even in my small town there have been several major IT jobs available and many more coming up (Amazon is locating a customer service building here, a few new businesses... That's just in my SMALL town. There are a lot more in the close cities around. But, in Portland or Seattle (or Spokane for that matter), there are quite a lot more. But, the degree is almost always required.
But, the job market is lower right now, but not what I would call bad. Even in my small town there have been several major IT jobs available and many more coming up (Amazon is locating a customer service building here, a few new businesses... That's just in my SMALL town. There are a lot more in the close cities around. But, in Portland or Seattle (or Spokane for that matter), there are quite a lot more. But, the degree is almost always required.
requiemnoise
Gawd
- Joined
- Aug 6, 2008
- Messages
- 726
You don't really need a computer science degree to be a DBA. Someone has to give him an experience. DBA guys make way too much money these days. It is insane. I'm really jealous. Database is the heart of company's technology and it is often very difficult for one database person to take over another one within a short period of time.
Sorry to bust your bubble, but what jobs are outsourced? I for one haven't seen any and like I said in another thread, my company just hired 4 new people, in IT, all local.
I agree with Ur_Mom, computer science is where it's at.
requiemnoise
Gawd
- Joined
- Aug 6, 2008
- Messages
- 726
I think he meant help desk, few support jobs, and complex programs are being outsourced to oversea... The tech job market is a lot smaller than 15 years ago. Do we really need that many local PC gurus ? Some companies even automate the image development for PCs. Little quirks in the applications can be handled by anther help desk company. Also, CIS and MIS degree aren't really necessary once he gets his first job in the technology. I guess my point is certain fields will slowly disappear, but certain fields will alway increase.
SuperSubZero
2[H]4U
- Joined
- Nov 21, 2000
- Messages
- 3,780
For the record, I've been in IT for most of the last 19 years and I have no degree whatsoever. I have managed to keep employed by staying to jobs that keep me hands-on. A dude in India can't replace a hard drive in New Jersey. In a strange twist, I have partial management capacity over people who have degrees.
I'm only starting school on Monday for the very first time (Comp Sci) and it's more of a personal enrichment/personal goal thing. Only one interviewer has ever mentioned my lack of degree in a negative way, and he turned out to be a jerk (the first interview I ever walked out of, and I drove 90 miles to attend it).
I'm only starting school on Monday for the very first time (Comp Sci) and it's more of a personal enrichment/personal goal thing. Only one interviewer has ever mentioned my lack of degree in a negative way, and he turned out to be a jerk (the first interview I ever walked out of, and I drove 90 miles to attend it).
Experience rules over a degree. A high school degree is used to show colleges you have what it takes to make it through HS. A college degree shows workers you studied an are and should be able an entry level job. I see degrees as a way to get your foot in the door. You start at the bottom and work your way up. In the end it comes down to experience because you cannot teach experience or get real world experience at a college.
requiemnoise
Gawd
- Joined
- Aug 6, 2008
- Messages
- 726
Just like many things in life, there are many ways to slice a pie. Also, everyone should know, nothing is guarantee in the technology world. The school made me learn Cobal when I was in college. Also, there was no system or networking courses when I was in school. It was totally worthless in a real life scenario. Once you are a technologist, you have to constantly practice when you are at home. Computer education is nothing like accounting. You have to constantly study on your own time until you are out of this field.
A college degree is neither necessary nor sufficient to be successful in the IT field, however that doesn't mean it is not worth obtaining. A college degree can help build a better foundation more quickly than working on your own. It can also help you get interviews for entry level positions that will put you in the field you may be interested in working in. But companies hire people, not degrees. If you work hard and develop the skills you need to be successful then you will be able to find a job. To pick your degree you should consider what you would like to do, as other have said a Computer Science or Computer Engineering degree is often the best option for opening doors.
I am not a big fan of MIS and Business Information Systems degrees because I have friends that have completed those types of programs and the coursework in technology is extremely limited. Knowing how to code HTML, use macros in Excel, and use Access is not preparation for developing complex software products. If you want to be a business consultant or analyst then that is fine, but if you want to be a software engineer, operations engineer, etc. then a CS degree is probably your best option. If you are interested in an area like database administration or information assurance then look at what coursework you could take in that area as electives or certificate programs you can complete in addition to your degree. I help recruit college candidates for one of the largest software companies and almost everyone we interview for tester and developer positions are CS majors or have done considerable computer related work outside of college. Once you get into your first job, then you can start working towards the specialty you would like to go into.
I am not a big fan of MIS and Business Information Systems degrees because I have friends that have completed those types of programs and the coursework in technology is extremely limited. Knowing how to code HTML, use macros in Excel, and use Access is not preparation for developing complex software products. If you want to be a business consultant or analyst then that is fine, but if you want to be a software engineer, operations engineer, etc. then a CS degree is probably your best option. If you are interested in an area like database administration or information assurance then look at what coursework you could take in that area as electives or certificate programs you can complete in addition to your degree. I help recruit college candidates for one of the largest software companies and almost everyone we interview for tester and developer positions are CS majors or have done considerable computer related work outside of college. Once you get into your first job, then you can start working towards the specialty you would like to go into.
instead of just giving you my .02 cents, i'll just ask you some questions and hopefully they will help clarify!
1. What are your options from the schools you've looked at?
2. What are your personal interests?
3. What sort of career do you want to end up in?
If we know what schools you're limited to, we can look at their programs. If we know your interests, it will help narrow down the fields suggested. If you know what you want to be, then that really narrows it down.
Go with what you will enjoy and can get a job in
1. What are your options from the schools you've looked at?
2. What are your personal interests?
3. What sort of career do you want to end up in?
If we know what schools you're limited to, we can look at their programs. If we know your interests, it will help narrow down the fields suggested. If you know what you want to be, then that really narrows it down.
Go with what you will enjoy and can get a job in
Generally speaking Computer Science seems to be the most common, that being said every University has a different opinion of what a Comp Sci degree should be. In one place it might be hardcore programming or in another place it might be general computer and networking it really varies, one of the big issues is that you really have no clue what the person knows even if they have a Comp Sci degree. For instance I have a Telecom degree and I hate explaining what it actually is, I didn't get a Comp Sci because I don't want to be a programmer and that was what my school taught as Comp Sci.
In terms of whether you need a BA or BS I would suggest that you do. While experience is great some companies (read HR departments which do a lot of the initial screening for hiring) flat out won't even read your resume with out a certain level of education. The fact is you can have all the experience in the world, but if the other guy has the same and a degree, well he'll be a more attractive candidate. Also there is kind of an upper limit as well in terms of advancement in relation to your education, while it may be an old concept you still have to work with in it.
Personally I think the job market is flat out awful, I haven't really seen any legitimate entry level or mid level IT jobs have openings (sadly I'm in Michigan) in quite some time. I've seen mostly postings for senior level experience for everything but nothing mid or entry. I'd really take a look at what state and area you want to live in, and then look at the local job market and also what companies are there, because that will probably dictate what the best course of action is economically.
In terms of whether you need a BA or BS I would suggest that you do. While experience is great some companies (read HR departments which do a lot of the initial screening for hiring) flat out won't even read your resume with out a certain level of education. The fact is you can have all the experience in the world, but if the other guy has the same and a degree, well he'll be a more attractive candidate. Also there is kind of an upper limit as well in terms of advancement in relation to your education, while it may be an old concept you still have to work with in it.
Personally I think the job market is flat out awful, I haven't really seen any legitimate entry level or mid level IT jobs have openings (sadly I'm in Michigan) in quite some time. I've seen mostly postings for senior level experience for everything but nothing mid or entry. I'd really take a look at what state and area you want to live in, and then look at the local job market and also what companies are there, because that will probably dictate what the best course of action is economically.
1. What are your options from the schools you've looked at?
Among others, I am looking at Indiana University, Rowan, Marquette, Temple, UMBC, Hofstra, and Xavier
2. What are your personal interests?
I like mostly computer repair from the hardware side. Like building machines, maintenence, and repair. A little software is isnt bad aswell, but I care more about the hardware aspect. I also enjoy working with networking apps and network equipment.
3. What sort of career do you want to end up in?
Either some sort of networking for a large company, or doing computer repair within a business. Would like to end up with a 6 figure salary (who wouldn't :]) I'm thinking the networking side may get me there.
Among others, I am looking at Indiana University, Rowan, Marquette, Temple, UMBC, Hofstra, and Xavier
2. What are your personal interests?
I like mostly computer repair from the hardware side. Like building machines, maintenence, and repair. A little software is isnt bad aswell, but I care more about the hardware aspect. I also enjoy working with networking apps and network equipment.
3. What sort of career do you want to end up in?
Either some sort of networking for a large company, or doing computer repair within a business. Would like to end up with a 6 figure salary (who wouldn't :]) I'm thinking the networking side may get me there.
Spare-Flair
Supreme [H]ardness
- Joined
- Apr 4, 2003
- Messages
- 7,471
So how would one get a start in the database admin field or the other recommended fields in this area? I was always into computers and networking, but I tried a year of comp sci and didn't enjoy the math. Switched to political science thinking about law school. Now I've finished a BA in Poli Sci but I'm burnt out on debates and politics and papers and just want to be an IT guy.
What should I do?
What should I do?
So how would one get a start in the database admin field or the other recommended fields in this area? I was always into computers and networking, but I tried a year of comp sci and didn't enjoy the math. Switched to political science thinking about law school. Now I've finished a BA in Poli Sci but I'm burnt out on debates and politics and papers and just want to be an IT guy.
What should I do?
2 things, imo. First, get a job doing some entry-level IT work for a company. You'll probably only be help-desk support, but it's a start! If you can, doing this for a university tends to be a little more fun than other places. Second, look into a master's program that would get you some classroom experience with the skills/equipment you want to move to!
Anyone else on here want to divvy up these universities and see what their programs are (and then report back here)? I'll grab IU and Rowan for now.
gta95, for your degree requirements, are you wanting it to be business related (like a BIS, MIS, etc) or are you interested in more IT-centric degrees too?
I'm sitting in class at ISU, in a systems analysis course. I am an MIS student with a fairly strong background in my field given my age. I can tell you that it really does depend on what you want to get into in the long run. In general, CS students here just learn a lot of hardcore programming and not much else unless they specifically want to. MIS students take all of the business "core" classes to be "well-rounded".. Which basically means you don't get to geek out in class.. In my 400 level course lecture, the instructor right now just wrote the following about creating a successful project:
"-identify the project size, figure out a plan, staff the project, and coordinate activites" This is about the most simple explaination of project management.. yet these students think this is what the IT field is. Personally I think if you know what part of IT you enjoy doing you can focus in on that and work the system. Independent study is ESSENTIAL!
First off thanks for your help Weasel.
I guess I would like to be doing more IT centered work, but im wondering would I end up in a better career ladder by taking a business centered course?
If all else fails in the IT sector, I can always for back on my interest for a Business Administration degree.
Well, I'm not an expert in any of this, but I figured you wanted help coming here, so at least I can speak from the little experience I have.
My background is a 4 year Bachelor's of Science in an IT-centric field. Specifically, the Computer Information Technology: Networking Engineering Technology degree at Purdue University (Lafayette, IN). I did a few internships for some Fortune 500 companies in different IT roles, and eventually ended up in a network engineering position at Cisco.
My thoughts on BIS/MIS degrees are that they are very solid degrees, but if you want to be hands-on in IT, they won't stand up to a focused IT degree. Typically, in BIS/MIS degrees you get a much smaller taste of the IT focus, but a large focus on the business aspects of things.
You're right in assuming that will help you move up the ladder for management, but you could also do that by starting out IT-centric and then going back for your MBA later. (As another option)
If you want to start out your career getting your hands dirty in the hardware, network, etc.. I would suggest looking into a IT-centric degree in the field of your interest. For example, during my 4 years at Purdue, I took courses on LAN admin (touching Active Directory, Exchange, MS products, pushing updates & packages, etc..), Network Security (learning how to hack, create IPS/IDS infrastructures), Advanced Systems (learning all of the Unix/Linux based systems), WLAN (using WLAN Controllers, APs, doing site surveys, setting up QoS, etc)... and it goes on and on.
The amount of hands-on lab experience I had in college really helped prepare me for my internships and eventually career here at Cisco. I had already gotten my feet wet in the technology, so I could hit the ground running.
My internships were actually in completely unrelated areas to my current position. The first one was as an "Enterprise Active Directory & Messaging Intern" being responsible for AD & Exchange, and the companies MS LCS 2005 Server roleout. The second internship was as "Internal Support Intern" in which I was responsible for a VMware ESX and SAN environment, as well as running our network management software, etc.
Do you have any experience working with computers as a job? On thing I'd like to point out is that I thought it would be a great thing to do as a career, and then after doing it for a while when I was in school, I'm kinda soured right now on IT. Just because you like something as a hobby doesn't always turn out well as a career.
I'd suggest trying to see if you can work part time doing some IT work to see if you like it, or even job shadowing. That would give you a great idea of what type of day you might have working and the kinda issues that crop up.
Also the big question comes to mind is, are you doing this because you really want to and you'll love it, or are you doing it because you think there will be big money in it.
I'd suggest trying to see if you can work part time doing some IT work to see if you like it, or even job shadowing. That would give you a great idea of what type of day you might have working and the kinda issues that crop up.
Also the big question comes to mind is, are you doing this because you really want to and you'll love it, or are you doing it because you think there will be big money in it.
Not to offend anyone, but a CS or computer engineering degree from a great university will usually look better than a business-type technology degree, especially at a corporate level. I've heard this from many recruiters. The main reason is for the amount of depth that goes into obtaining the degree... you don't look at technology as a black box that needs to be configured, rather, you understand why it works and how to build it, which goes a long way in troubleshooting.
It's not to say that someone with another degree isn't more qualified for the job or won't get it; it's just that the CS/CE degree has somewhat more of a socially accepted status.
So, yeah, I'm obviously recommending CS/CE. As you can probably tell from my bias, I'm a CE grad.
It's not to say that someone with another degree isn't more qualified for the job or won't get it; it's just that the CS/CE degree has somewhat more of a socially accepted status.
So, yeah, I'm obviously recommending CS/CE. As you can probably tell from my bias, I'm a CE grad.
im 24 right now... bummed about economy and dont have any degrees, but always been a pc nut.. willing to check it out. Not into programing, cant really stand coding etc.. But I dont mind hardware and software. I can be pretty hands on with that since ive been into computers for over 10 years as a hobby..
Sadly I'm pretty freaking broke, still at home, got some bills etc.. Curious if any one can recommend me some advice/fields that wont take too long or a fortune to get involved in. I don't mind doing something like pc diagnostics/repair like how I see guys chilling at PCclub in the back etc. I got a friend who *i cant think of what degree he got*, but he was like a pc repair guru who would drive out to people and fix their problems.. I remember he was telling me that you could either go to school, or if you KNOW your stuff, could take some exams to get certified.
I guess short term, something I can get in quick and go from there, then while Im there, i can work on higher education. Suggestions would be appreciated. thanks.
Sadly I'm pretty freaking broke, still at home, got some bills etc.. Curious if any one can recommend me some advice/fields that wont take too long or a fortune to get involved in. I don't mind doing something like pc diagnostics/repair like how I see guys chilling at PCclub in the back etc. I got a friend who *i cant think of what degree he got*, but he was like a pc repair guru who would drive out to people and fix their problems.. I remember he was telling me that you could either go to school, or if you KNOW your stuff, could take some exams to get certified.
I guess short term, something I can get in quick and go from there, then while Im there, i can work on higher education. Suggestions would be appreciated. thanks.
Well I'm in the same situation as you except with a degree in Telecom (only non programming degree at MSU) and some great experience and I can't find a job. I think long term a BA or BS is definitely going to help you at least advance to higher position in most companies though you may not need one right away, the boom market where people were hiring people faster then they could process the paperwork is over, and at some point you will need some qualifications to just get your resume looked at.
If you want to save some cash on a degree at a major university plan out what you want to do first, pick your degree then see what credits will transfer from the local community college and do as much of it there as you can then transfer it all in and you'll save a ton. Granted I didn't do that, but I wanted the college experience. Try and get an A+ and some MCP's that will definitely help you out as well.
The big issue right now, in your situation is that there are so many of us with degrees or certifications and good experience who are out of work. I have people with 10 years of experience pushing me out of positions that they normally wouldn't take but have to do the economy, and then you'll have people like me pushing you out of positions that I normally wouldn't take, and it just cascades from there. If you can find a crap job just doing some low level stuff for minimum wage I would take it if I were you, at least you can get some work exp and leverage that later on to get a job. Also if you do end up going to school getting a job in the campus IT department is a great way to build experience and in many cases very fun.
I think that has more to do with the overall variety in CS degrees across the board. Some are hardcore programming others are more general studies. I've seen CS degrees required for all sorts of stuff that wouldn't normally fit with a CS degree from MSU, but maybe from others. Granted lots of HR people can't see past a few words, but you should get a degree in something that you want to do. If you want to do networking don't get a CS degree that is all programming because outside of maybe getting some HR people to look at you, how will that help you long term? As long as you can back up your degree regardless of what it is in with a good cover letter and decent experience you should be fine.
If you want to save some cash on a degree at a major university plan out what you want to do first, pick your degree then see what credits will transfer from the local community college and do as much of it there as you can then transfer it all in and you'll save a ton. Granted I didn't do that, but I wanted the college experience. Try and get an A+ and some MCP's that will definitely help you out as well.
The big issue right now, in your situation is that there are so many of us with degrees or certifications and good experience who are out of work. I have people with 10 years of experience pushing me out of positions that they normally wouldn't take but have to do the economy, and then you'll have people like me pushing you out of positions that I normally wouldn't take, and it just cascades from there. If you can find a crap job just doing some low level stuff for minimum wage I would take it if I were you, at least you can get some work exp and leverage that later on to get a job. Also if you do end up going to school getting a job in the campus IT department is a great way to build experience and in many cases very fun.
I think that has more to do with the overall variety in CS degrees across the board. Some are hardcore programming others are more general studies. I've seen CS degrees required for all sorts of stuff that wouldn't normally fit with a CS degree from MSU, but maybe from others. Granted lots of HR people can't see past a few words, but you should get a degree in something that you want to do. If you want to do networking don't get a CS degree that is all programming because outside of maybe getting some HR people to look at you, how will that help you long term? As long as you can back up your degree regardless of what it is in with a good cover letter and decent experience you should be fine.
Late to the party, so I'm not sure if it's been said yet or not; GIS. This is a field which will be expanding in the coming years as companies attempt to optimize their efforts a bit better. Just about every company needs a GIS person ( well, more than half I'd say ), and it's a somewhat specialized field.
Plus, it's a damn cool field to be in.
Plus, it's a damn cool field to be in.