Best (cheap) calibration tool for a NEC 2190Uxp (pva)?

Namelessme

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I got a relatively inexpensive used NEC LCD2190Uxp yesterday, and am wondering what calibration tools are compatible, and ideally cheap. Spyder 3? I believe the NEC models also use spectraview software for calibrating, but am not sure if that is free or a separate purchase.

My LCD palette is somewhat lacking, so I don't have a ton of experience with LCDs (CRT person) but the display itself looks somewhat decent to me without calibrating. I need to change the brightness some, and the blues look duller than on my CRT, but the rest of the colors look similar or better than my CRT. Well, besides black, of course, but the black isn't super terrible on this thing either.Reds and yellows are quite nice and it's much, much sharper.

Angles are better than I expected, no screen flaws at all, and no glow in the corners like IPS (yay). Some grain, unfortunately, but not as much as the IPS panel I used to have.

Anyway... is there a cheap calibration tool recommended? I think this monitor allows hardware calibration, so data is stored in the LUT. So maybe its previous owner calibrated it decently already... also not even sure what color mode to use for this thing. I have various color temps, s-rgb (which I have it in now), native and programmed (calibrated). Any owners of this monitor out there that can offer suggestions?

And is there a way to determine the number of hours the backlight has been used? The advanced OSD doesn't seem to store that info on this monitor -- not sure how people figure that out.
 

tk-don

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The monitor if of the same generation as LCD2090UXI, 2190UXi, 2490,2690WUXi and 3090WQXi, and they all share nearly (if not) identical OSDs.

The SVII software is a separate purchase, and optionally comes included with a very good calibration sensor (better than a Spyder 3). A Spyder 3 is however fully supported, according to the support list: http://www.necdisplay.com/support-and-services/spectra-view-II/Compatibility#system_requirements

I don't have personal experience with the 2190UXp, but usually the native color setting is very decent. Using this along with ColorComp at a low setting should provide good results.

The number of hours of usage is visible in the SVII software, and it is indeed hidden in the advanced menu. But a to see it exists. I wrote this in another thread:

"
Go into the Advanced OSM:
- When the monitor is off, hold "Input" and press the power button. Hold the input button for 3-4 seconds and release. Press Select.

- Use the arrow keys to get to tab E.
- Press and hold Up and press Left.
- You'll now see the total amount of usage in both horizontal and vertical position."
 

Namelessme

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Thanks for the info.

I wasn't sure if having colorcomp on or not was a good idea, as it seems to lower luminance a little bit. But the brightness seemed a bit high anyway, so rather than lower brightness I just turned it on instead. What does it do exactly?

And is this a wide gamut monitor, or standard gamut with a decent LUT? I'm somewhat of a LCD idiot as far as things like that go... so thought to be safe I'd keep it in s-rgb. But I do notice somewhat brighter colors in native or prg mode.

Under hours used, I don't get a horizontal/vertical thing, but instead see this:

On 7136 H09M
Off 22693 H21M

Does that mean the backlight has been used 7136 hours? If so, considering the age of this thing, I'll be rather happy. If 22K+ hours... somewhat less happy.
 

tk-don

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Very sorry for the lack of a reply. I see that you've got more serious issues with this monitor (from your other thread). Frankly, i don't know what could be wrong.

The amount of colorcomp (and loss of brightness) can be controlled in the advanced menu. Default is 3, but if it is one of the better panels, you shouldn't notice much difference between the uniformity at 1 or 3 - except that level 1 retains more contrast.
ColorComp is a factory "calibration" that corrects the panel's unevenness in color temperature variation and brightness distribution. Each monitor has their own unique colorcomp compensation (all set/defined when the monitor was manufactured). The compensation is not just the same on all points on the screen, since the monitor has been measured at 20 distinct points or so.

The 2190Uxp is a bit "funny". I can't find a single document stating it's native color gamut. Quite unbelieveable. It does have a feature that none of the other monitors in the 90 series have i think: "OmniColor". They seem to advertise it as some sort of "standard color gamut" so that users can trust their results to be reproducible on printers and other monitors in general. What it actually means in real life terms, i'm not sure.

However, it uses a Samsung panel in the series LTM213Ux.. where x is between 1-6 (maybe higher). According to the datasheet of LTM213U6 http://www.display-solution.com/pdf...M213U6-L01_TFT-SA-21-001_Rev04_05.09.2005.pdf - the color chromaticity coordinates say that this is a native sRGB panel.

And yes, that does mean that is has been on for 7136 hours and off (or standby) for 22693 - that's pretty great indeed.
The sRGB mode setting on my 2490wuxi has become somewhat "off" for some reason - and the calibrated result actually looks closer to the native mode. Don't know if the sRGB mode has always been like that, but it's a bit dim/dull as you say.
 

wagoo

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I get horizontal/vertical usage on my 2190UXp in the advanced menu.. I picked it up for about $70 in a thai market (pantip plaza in bangkok) last October.. there were 3 there but the other 2 had issues. I've been running it in portrait only, and it shows 449 hours in portrait and 48 in horizontal. So pretty much unused.. not bad considering these are still on sale locally for >10x that price.

Did you solve all your setup problems? It seems like our revisions may differ if the advanced menu isn't the same, and I have only done eye calibration on it as I use it as an email/irc/IM screen mostly, but if you need me to check something to help you troubleshoot just let me know.
 

Namelessme

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Thanks for the replies.

I read somewhere in this forum that it's better to leave colorcomp off, unless you are seeing uneven distribution of colors. I don't recall the reasoning behind having it off, unless it's due to less luminance. I don't notice much difference having it on or off -- my screen seems pretty even with colors either way.

I do find native looks better than s-rgb. Colors have a little more 'pop' in native. I was just afraid of possibly over-saturated colors, but I'm not seeing any of that. I am also using the color profile that comes with the monitor driver. I didn't adjust much else, besides lowering brightness to around 92% or so. Using my current calibration tool (my eyeballs), it looks quite good.

A couple of things I do wonder about -- as for heat, is it normal for this thing to get rather warm after being on a for a while? It's fat as far as LCDs go, so I assume the heat from up top is normal, but just wanted to check. The TN and IPS panels I've tried never got this warm -- not a big deal, just want to make sure the monitor won't burst into flames or anything.

I also noticed the backlight at 100% isn't as bright as the LED IPS panel I previously tried, which was sort of a blinding, searing eyeball, type of brightness. When I had a U2412, I think I kept it at around 35% brightness. This one can be around 90% and still rather soothing to one's eyes. Is that normal for these models?

@wagoo

It appears we have differing OSDs. I expect my model is older that yours, as mine is 5+ years old. We can't update the firmware in these monitors, can we? The only thing you can check, if you want, is -- what happens to your monitor if you lower brightness super low, around 5% or less? For mine, the monitor goes black and then into standby mode.


Overall, I love the image on this thing. I am kicking myself for sticking with CRTs and not going PVA years ago. This is the first VA panel I've seen, and the more I use it, the more I like it. Blacks are actually black... not dark grey... and the first LCD I've seen where black is darker than the bezel. I can only compare it to the U2412 and TN panels, but colors even seem better on this than the U2412. That partly could be due to the AG coating on the 2412, but I am wondering why VA panels aren't more popular after seeing this one. I am guessing because VA panels stink at games (relatively speaking)?

And is the S-PVA in this similar to the Dell 2407, 2408 types of monitors? I am just wondering how this one compares to other VA screens... if I picked a good model or not.

Unfortunately I still have that electronics issue I mentioned in another thread. No idea what the cause could be yet. So far, it's an annoyance, but at least no other issues with the monitor as of yet. It's sort of like the monitor needs to warm up and be on a while, before it can switch out of standby into regular mode.... very weird.
 

wagoo

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I can lower mine to 0% and the picture is still viewable.. it could just be an artifact of the backlight hours though. I mean, I run mine at 60% normally.. I tend to put brightness at a level where a blank white screen doesn't give any negative feedback from my eyes, though. I run my U2412Ms on 50% for comparison.

Having said that about backlight hours on mine, I actually think I was reading the advanced OSD wrong. Only been in there once, but looking at it again those numbers seem to be more about the scaler. Funnily when playing about with some random instructions on getting backlight usage for the 20WMGX2, I found pressing up + input on the E menu in advanced OSD brings forth the hidden spectraview setting. I'm sure this is ancient info, but still kind of cool to rediscover hehe.

Heatwise, it seems the same as the other CCFL LCDs I have.

As far as the panel goes, It feels very similar to my Dell 2405FPW, and the 2007WFP I've been using for the past couple weeks in an overseas office. The NEC certainly feels very well put together, though. From both a hardware and electronics standpoint.
 

Namelessme

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Thanks for the info on the brightness. I can lower mine below 5-10% and still see a image. But what happens is the screen then just 'blacks out' and the monitor goes into standby mode. It probably is due to an electronics malfunction with IPM in my monitor, which I mentioned in another thread.

If yours is close to new, that may be why your monitor is brighter than mine. I wouldn't classify mine as dim by any means... just compared to the eye scorching brightness of the LED I tried, it seems dimmer.

And yeah, that hour thing is very well hidden. tk-don mentioned earlier in this thread how to bring it up.
 

wagoo

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Aha! I'd missed that thanks, was away for a few weeks so catching up. :)

012710H54M ON
005788H22M OFF

So far from new. I was trying to find the manufacturing date, but there's nothing on the case. Found an NEC serial lookup thing, which was US/Can only. And the register your product thing on the NEC website was spitting out .Net errors.
 

Namelessme

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I think the number at the start of your serial number corresponds with year manufactured. Such as 6 = 2006, 7= 2007, etc etc.

I used the serial number look-up thing for mine, and the warranty was registered to start in 1/2007. Yet mine was made manufactured several weeks before that, so the serial starts with a 6. The manufacturing date should be in the advanced menu somewhere too, I think.

I saw my exact date in NaviSet, if you have that installed.
 

sfor

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sorry to drug this out from the past, but in my never ending quest for eyestrain relief this will be the next lcd I am buying, probably off of ebay. I am worried about the s-pva matrix and text clarity, but I like the contrast and the aspect ratio very much.
 

Ultrasonic

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sorry to drug this out from the past, but in my never ending quest for eyestrain relief this will be the next lcd I am buying, probably off of ebay. I am worried about the s-pva matrix and text clarity, but I like the contrast and the aspect ratio very much.

hehe, welcome to the club, i'm just in the same boat...
 

Namelessme

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sorry to drug this out from the past, but in my never ending quest for eyestrain relief this will be the next lcd I am buying, probably off of ebay. I am worried about the s-pva matrix and text clarity, but I like the contrast and the aspect ratio very much.

Unfortunately my 2190 died... and its replacement died. And then I tried ordering one recently from eBay, and the reseller mistated (or lied) on how many hours it had -- instead of the 4200 hrs he claimed, it had over 19.5K hrs ... and the brightness level really showed it.

So just be careful if ordering from eBay. Make sure you get the reseller to agree to pay for return shipping and offer a full refund if the monitor has any issues. I see two resellers I dealt with now selling 2190s, and both times it didn't end very well.

The NEC 2490 is a good alternative, if you are okay with so-so contrast. It beats the 2190 in some other ways (angles, color accuracy, response times). But that too requires an eBay purchase.
 

sfor

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Great post man, thanks a lot for the info. I guess I should ask them about hours of usage, although I doubt they 'll go for paying my return fees if there's any trouble with them. Are you looking at ebay.com seeing those two resellers? Or (as I think you are) ebay.de, from where I am planning to place a purchase too?

So you were basically happy with the 2190 nameless, right? I had a 17" eizo circa that time, that I hadn't used in a while, and I gave away a few months ago, and when I tried to use it again the ag blew me away completely. I suppose the s-pva won't suffer from that problem, only the inherent s-pva text issue which I guess I 'have to see for myself how (if) it affects me.

hehe, welcome to the club, i'm just in the same boat...

Sucks doesn't it? :D I just gave myself one hell of a headache today at the office, overusing the screen besides work related stuff to, well...find a new screen to buy. I am making the pharmacies rich with the pain killers I am buying...
 
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Namelessme

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Great post man, thanks a lot for the info. I guess I should ask them about hours of usage, although I doubt they 'll go for paying my return fees if there's any trouble with them. Are you looking at ebay.com seeing those two resellers? Or (as I think you are) ebay.de, from where I am planning to place a purchase too?

So you were basically happy with the 2190 nameless, right? I had a 17" eizo circa that time, that I hadn't used in a while, and I gave away a few months ago, and when I tried to use it again the ag blew me away completely. I suppose the s-pva won't suffer from that problem, only the inherent s-pva text issue which I guess I 'have to see for myself how (if) it affects me.

Ask for hours of usage, and provide the keystrokes to pull up the advanced menu to them. Some will look up hours for you, some won't. In the latter case, unless it's a monitor made in like 2012+, I wouldn't bother getting it. If they provide a serial number, you can even get NEC to do a reverse past history lookup for you (same with Eizos).

And some eBay resellers will agree to paying for return shipping. And some good ones even state it in their general business practices. It's not common, but some do. When I ask them, I word it to emphasize the fact I just mean if the monitor has major flaws, like the thing blows up 2 days after I get it, doesn't turn on, has a bunch of dead pixels, etc. Minor flaws are possible with new monitors even, so I wouldn't expect anyone to pay for a return on 1 dead pixel or anything like that.

For the recent 2190 I purchased that I had an issue with, I had to open up a dispute. It was weird ... the reseller kept trying to deny the monitor had as much usage as it did, and then when I showed him evidence, he started to change his story. He strangely escalated the dispute without saying anything in his defense, and I won immediately. And eBay even agreed to cover return shipping costs for me. The odd thing is how he has a 100% rating and even a couple of people giving good reviews for this same exact monitor bought from him. So either he just sent me a lemon, or they have no idea how to check hours.

And I buy from ebay.com, as I'm in the US, so it probably isn't the same resellers on ebay.de (unless you are buying from overseas). I see one monitor still up for $150 (the reseller who lied about hours) and the other reseller sold one just recently (super cheap, $50 + shipping). But in his case, both the original and replacement both died completely within a week or so after I set them up. I later found out it's a rather common issue with this model when they get super elderly. And he only sells 2190s made in 2006 and 2007, so they all are rather... well, elderly. And I liked the first 2190 I received quite a bit. The second one had several dead pixels and wasn't quite as nice. And my third was a dud, due to dim backlighting. I'd like to compare a new 2190 to my 2490 side by side, as I expect the 2190 to compare decently.

As for S-PVA, it'll be a subtle issue with text. You may not notice it much if you don't run an IPS display right next to it. The lower the brightness, I think the more you may notice the text issue. The only other downsides were a bit more gamma shift than IPS, but nothing too terrible. And response rates were only okay-ish. I noticed minor ghosting with some dark screens and maybe reds, if I recall right. Unless you are a big gamer, I don't think it'd matter much to you.
 

sfor

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Kudos for another super informative post that I am sure will come in handy for many others reading the forums and not just myself. I've just pm'ed the seller on ebay.de. The monitors go for a rather more expensive price than the one you get in the states, around $350 or so. Sorry to hear about your troubles with ebay sellers, but I 'm glad it worked out fine at the end. The last va eizo I purchase off of ebay didn't even mention it was a used panel (a year's use) but I contacted the seller and it ended amicably by them offering me a considerable discount.

I also have my eyes on this, http://www.ebay.de/itm/EIZO-FlexSca...ildschirme&hash=item4abfbbe9b5#ht_1764wt_1165

and that one:

http://www.ebay.de/itm/EIZO-L997-21...bildschirme&hash=item3ccfdd609f#ht_3140wt_987
 

Namelessme

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The L997 would be too old for me, as I expect it's probably 2005ish. It also has a rather lousy contrast ratio. Ask the seller for the year made, and hours of usage. All Eizos store the hours used in its regular menu, under info ... 2nd page ... if I remember correctly.

The 1921 is okay, but it is really terrible with ghosting. Another eBay mini-disaster which turned out okay for me was when I bought an 1921 from eBay a while ago... but I thought I was being smart, as the reseller listed it as a 1921X. And that specific model was only released during the past couple of years, so it should still be under manufacturer warranty. But he sent me a plain 1921 instead. I simply asked the reseller if he sent me the correct model, and then he apologized, said the shipping dept. made a mistake with the listing, and refunded my entire purchase ... and let me keep the monitor ... all without me asking for any refund at all. And then I checked the hours used, and to my surprise it had like 8 hrs on it. Then I felt bad about even asking him for the X version...

But eventually I sold it, as the ghosting/response rates ended up bugging me too much. If you want it for mostly static image stuff, it's fine. But just moving windows around and scrolling text caused some ghosting. I have a similar panel NEC 1990SX which does better with ghosting, as it has overdrive, but it's hardly perfect in that dept.

An Eizo 1932 may be a bit better, as it's S-PVA vs PVA. But it all depends on what deals you can find available.

Oh, and an Eizo S2100 will be similar to the NEC 2190uxp, if you can find one. But they are just as pricey as the NEC is. And it has less useful features (in my opinion).
 
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