Best Buy Shows Electronics Aren’t Going To Save Christmas Either

[Scythe]

Probably not the most common sentiment on [H] but....If it ain't broke, still does what I need it to do....I don't buy new stuff for the sake of couple of features, etc. when the basic functionality remains the same.

4K TV's? Yeah, as soon as they start broadcasting in it I might consider it. Many providers offer HD, but only 720. I can't even get full 1080 yet.. So..why would I buy a 4K TV?

 

[mesyn191]

You guys need to understand that the vast majority of Americans are not in good shape right now.

Yup. Gross median household income is only $43K in the US. Gross meaning before taxes. Most people in the US are now effectively working poor and simply can't afford to buy as much as they used to even with modern debt instruments.

Oh they might have a decent car and a house or apartment but that is due to all the debt they're in. They're 1 missed paycheck away from losing everything since they have no savings and their income is too low. They also can't afford healthcare or a retirement or college.

$43K/yr used to be good money for a family but decades of wage stagnation and inflation have made it a fairly mediocre income in 2000 much less 2015. People are still voting against their interests though, look at Kentucky, Kansas, or Michigan to see how this is playing out, so I guess things will have to get much worse before they get better.

 

[nutzo]

Also, there really isn't a drawback to getting a 4k set. Sure, there isn't that much content available yet, but these TVs aren't at obscene price points any more either. You can pick up a decent 42 inch 4k TV for 400-500 these days.

Other than price. 1080p TV's have dropped in price since the 4k TV's have started shipping.
Unless you are buying a TV larger than 50", 4K really doesn't matter, since you won't be able to see the difference.

If I was buying a 40-50" TV, I'd rather buy a higher quality 1080p TV than a cheaper quality 4K.

 

[nutzo]

buying stuff to replace stuff I already have, that gives me no more benefit seems like throwing money away.

maybe I'm getting old.

You will feel better if you go and yell at the kids playing on you lawn

I do agree about not needing to replace stuff. I'm at the point where I usually only replace stuff when it's not worth fixing.

My desktop is 6 years old, and is still fast enough for what I need. Same with the other family members desktop. All I've done to them the past couple years is add more ram and upgraded them with SSD's, so they should be fine for a few more years.

 

[nutzo]

Yup. Gross median household income is only $43K in the US. Gross meaning before taxes. Most people in the US are now effectively working poor and simply can't afford to buy as much as they used to even with modern debt instruments.

$43K/yr used to be good money for a family but decades of wage stagnation and inflation have made it a fairly mediocre income in 2000 much less 2015. People are still voting against their interests though, look at Kentucky, Kansas, or Michigan to see how this is playing out, so I guess things will have to get much worse before they get better.

It looks to me like voters in those states have woken up and are finally voting FOR their best interests.
The economic climate for the middle class in those states has improved much faster than it has in solid blue states like California. When you adjust for taxes and the cost of living, those states are doing a lot better.

 

[nutzo]

$80,000 a year for a household income puts you right at the edge of "lower middle class". Middle class means you live comfortably and can afford stuff like new electronics on a regular basis. Middle class is not some set amount, it's an evolving segment that very much reflects the economic state of the country.

It really depends on where you live and your lifestyle.

You can live very well for $80,000 in some southern states.
In the Bay area (San Francisco), you will be lucky if you can afford a 1 bedroom apartment if you are only making $80,000.

In South orange county, Southern California, $80,000 is below the medium household income. It would be hard to qualify for the average home/mortgage even if you make double that ($160K).

However, I bought my home years ago (no way I could afford anything like it now), we drive our cars for at least 10 years, and we are generally frugal with our money. My wife stays home and we make do with my income.
We know people who struggle financially, even though they are making 2x what we do.

 

[jedijeb]

It really depends on where you live and your lifestyle.

You can live very well for $80,000 in some southern states.
In the Bay area (San Francisco), you will be lucky if you can afford a 1 bedroom apartment if you are only making $80,000.

In South orange county, Southern California, $80,000 is below the medium household income. It would be hard to qualify for the average home/mortgage even if you make double that ($160K).

However, I bought my home years ago (no way I could afford anything like it now), we drive our cars for at least 10 years, and we are generally frugal with our money. My wife stays home and we make do with my income.
We know people who struggle financially, even though they are making 2x what we do.

Financial restriction is truly the problem right now. I live in Kentucky and as some said the cost of living here is low enough we can make due well in that $50k range if you don't get too extravagant. But being single and making $50k I can say that my bring home pay is about $28k per year after taxes, retirement contributions and health insurance are taken out of my check. If you have family on your insurance that is another $300 every two weeks taken out of your check(thanks to the Affordable Care Act). That doesn't leave much free cash for spending on electronic gadgets and such.

I am lucky that I drive a 20 and 30 year old vehicle and I bought my 800 sqft cabin and three acres for $42k, so that leaves me a little more free cash than most families, but I'm also not going to run out and buy a new $40k truck any time soon.

Oh and I work as a chemist too, so the economy really isn't great these days that's for sure.

 

[mesyn191]

It looks to me like voters in those states have woken up and are finally voting FOR their best interests,,,,,,The economic climate

Except all those states are doing poorly both in terms of economics and in terms of social welfare (ie. schools, roads, unemployment, etc.). Kansas in particular is near the bottom economically out of all 50 states and is in far more debt than ever thanks to Brownback's policies so reality is the exact opposite of what you're describing. Generally if you're voting for your best interests things are supposed to get better not worse.

In all those states the state govt. is generally disliked greatly but the people there don't understand the policies or how they're effected them and are easily swayed by rhetoric. Most in Kentucky for instance don't like the idea of Kynect being dismantled yet they voted for a guy who aims to do just that. When told what he'll do most react with dismay or fear.

That you seriously believe those states are doing well suggests incredible bias on your part so I guess the rhetoric is working on you too.

 

[mesyn191]

It really depends on where you live and your lifestyle.

Technically true but misses the point.

Yes you can live very well on $80K in many of the southern states but good luck finding a job that pays that much. In pretty much all of the states that have a lower cost of living the wages are also much lower too. The economy and schools also tend to be poor too.

And I say this as someone who currently lives in Idaho, but I've also lived in Virginia and California too. And I've seen quite a bit of the other southern states as well. They call that area the Rust Belt for a reason.

 

[doz]

Prove to you that 4k tvs are worth it over regular 1080p sets? Very few of the 1080p sets are getting the new tech, some are but most companies are focusing on 4k sets. I paid $1700 for my 65JS8500, at the time the set I was going to get, a 65" Vizio E series was just under $1100. $600 price difference for our main TV set but it was the price on the JS8500 which sold me. 4k isn't 3d, nor is it a "fad". 4k content is coming faster and faster and the price on 4k sets are dirt cheap.



Between Netflix and Amazon there are about a dozen different shows I'm interested in that are in 4k. Daredevil, Breaking Bad, Edge, House of Cards, Longmire, Alpha House, Jessica Jones, Orphan Black, and a few others. Both Netflix and Amazon are releasing even newer shows in 4k later this year as well as next. Ultraflix has some nice movies on Ultra HD as well as Youtube, Netflix, and Amazon. For my wife and I who love movie night we love our TV and our shows which many are in 4k.



So your argument is basically "just wait until technology is cheaper" or the "something better is just around the corner". Both are tired and trite arguments. If you need a TV now and a 4k TV is in your price range then get it. Could you spend less and get a nice tv of course you can. Calling people idiots because of an electronics purchase is just about as idiotic as criticizing people for wasting time on hobbies instead of bettering themselves with worthwhile pursuits instead.

Kepe on naming 4k make-over and not originally shot in 4k.

 

[steakman1971]

I'm currently looking over ads and asking my kids (ages 8 & 9) what they might want. They want expensive laptops, TVs, etc. They aren't getting anything that expensive for Christmas. Hell, they are already spoiled shits.
They have iPads, computers, an Xbox 360 (might get them a new console - like a PS4), TVs in the house, etc.
What it boils down to - I think a lot of people are "tech saturated". Do you need a new iPad (or do you even need one is another argument)? Do you need a new computer every year? Same with TVs, BluRay players, etc. 4K TV? As others have said, there isn't enough content yet.
Our economy expects us to be good consumers and buy shit we don't need. (Watched Fight Club last night).

 

[g-money]

I'm currently looking over ads and asking my kids (ages 8 & 9) what they might want. They want expensive laptops, TVs, etc. They aren't getting anything that expensive for Christmas. Hell, they are already spoiled shits.
They have iPads, computers, an Xbox 360 (might get them a new console - like a PS4), TVs in the house, etc.
What it boils down to - I think a lot of people are "tech saturated". Do you need a new iPad (or do you even need one is another argument)? Do you need a new computer every year? Same with TVs, BluRay players, etc. 4K TV? As others have said, there isn't enough content yet.
Our economy expects us to be good consumers and buy shit we don't need. (Watched Fight Club last night).

This is a great comment (and now just because of Fight Club!). I think we are pretty well tech saturated, and just think about that from a generic device perspective (phones, desktop computers, tablets, laptops, watches, gaming consoles, entertainment centers, audio electronics, lights, cameras, security electronics, etc.). The key here is that the entry-barrier is actually really low. Nobody needs that 4K tv, but even a poor family can afford an LCD tv that probably is at least 720p or 1080p one out of 5 years. Smartphones are actually pretty cheap. Computers on the whole can be had pretty cheap.

And sure, its nice to have a better, newer, faster model of something, but lets be honest, even the entry level stuff is AMAZING compared to what we had 15 years ago, 25 years ago. I don't think the market was nearly as saturated back then and people didn't have all the 'essential' gadgets. Now they do, therefore all they can buy are upgrades and that means the business returns are going to be less. Supply and demand I guess. Makes sense to me

 

[HoffY]

People are not stupid, just your view of them is.....

The majority voting public in Australia indisputably disagrees.

 

[HardUp4HardWare]

Other than price. 1080p TV's have dropped in price since the 4k TV's have started shipping.
Unless you are buying a TV larger than 50", 4K really doesn't matter, since you won't be able to see the difference.

If I was buying a 40-50" TV, I'd rather buy a higher quality 1080p TV than a cheaper quality 4K.

I have a Panny plasma 720P that looks better than any 4k set running 1080P content.

Better blacks, nicer image better color.

4K is a joke right now. Give me OLED @ 1080P and I would be very happy.

 

[haste.]

Because people are stupid. Unless you are buying it for computer usage, its damn near pointless to own a 4k TV already.

Just watched my shiny new js9500 and it is unreal. The VT series Panny plasma it replaced is almost unwatchable now. But you know I must be stupid for purchasing a 4k TV

 

[haste.]

I know people like to look hip when they take a crap on Best Buy but if you have been to one recently they have improved their pricing and overall competitiveness. We need brick and mortar places to "touch and feel" the products. I would never buy a TV without seeing it first as not all panels are created equal.

There is a disconnect on the level of service. I don't buy anything from Best Buy except for TV's. Magnolia provides a much different level of service than the regular "blue shirt" side of Best Buy. Until they can provide proper service on both sides (those that are buying luxury items and those that are buying the cheap crap) there will always be a disgruntled customer base.

That said Magnolia is fantastic. The service I receive is beyond good and I would 100% buy luxury electronics there over Amazon - could be my store, but I have had great experiences. No Best Buy BS expected from the front of the store, not trying to sell me a warranty, not even an upsell on the product...

 

[Draktharbar]

I have a Panny plasma 720P that looks better than any 4k set running 1080P content.

Better blacks, nicer image better color.

4K is a joke right now. Give me OLED @ 1080P and I would be very happy.

I have an LG 55" curved 1080p OLED and it looks fantastic! I had reservations about the curve, but I don't even notice it anymore. Space movies look phenomenal with the dark blacks.

As for deciding 4K vs 1080p, there is a handy chart that some guy created:
http://s3.carltonbale.com/resolution_chart.html

 

[Ryokurin]

Because people are stupid. Unless you are buying it for computer usage, its damn near pointless to own a 4k TV already.

Actually it can help existing content. It's kind of like how some bluray players can upconvert DVDs hopefully making them look slightly better on a HD screen.

You can buy decent HD sets for under $500 in a lot of places. If 4K isn't costing you that much more it's kind of a no-brainer to buy, even if it's potentially isn't fully future-proof.

 

[Ryokurin]

Give me a reason to buy a 4k TV and I will. Blame the cable companies and lack of 4k content. Cox Cable still broadcasts @ 720p. Why the fuck do I want a 4k TV?

For the most part cable companies are only obligated to broadcast in official standards. That is ATSC 1.0 (720P and 1080i) And just like it's always been Disney and Fox chose 720P because of the higher temporal resolution which is better for sports.

4K broadcasts will come, but we are still at least a year away from ATSC 3.0 being finalized, probably even longer in it actually being used since it's not backwards compatible.

 

[Ranulfo]

4k isn't 3d, nor is it a "fad". 4k content is coming faster and faster and the price on 4k sets are dirt cheap.

Somehow I doubt the tech is that great in a $600-1000 4k tv as a $1700 one. And yes it is a fad simply because there is not a lot of content in 4k and won't be for 5 years minimum. Paying $200 more on average for a 4k tv only makes sense if it has some of the smart tv or some other tech you want. OLED is worth spending money on in my opinion. Heck, just give me a good panel with good guts and no smart tv crap. I don't need that stuff on my tv.

Between Netflix and Amazon there are about a dozen different shows I'm interested in that are in 4k. Daredevil, Breaking Bad, Edge, House of Cards, Longmire, Alpha House, Jessica Jones, Orphan Black, and a few others. Both Netflix and Amazon are releasing even newer shows in 4k later this year as well as next. Ultraflix has some nice movies on Ultra HD as well as Youtube, Netflix, and Amazon. For my wife and I who love movie night we love our TV and our shows which many are in 4k.

12... 12 whole shows. Look, I'm glad you love the 4k content you have and you love your tv but this is scraping the bottom of the barrel here. At the average viewing distance you're not gonna tell the difference unless you're watching 4k off youtube all the time and I hope you have the bandwidth for it.

So your argument is basically "just wait until technology is cheaper" or the "something better is just around the corner". Both are tired and trite arguments. If you need a TV now and a 4k TV is in your price range then get it. Could you spend less and get a nice tv of course you can. Calling people idiots because of an electronics purchase is just about as idiotic as criticizing people for wasting time on hobbies instead of bettering themselves with worthwhile pursuits instead.

You're trying to justify spending $1k+ on a tv for miniscule content that is out now or will be in the near future if not lifetime of the tv, in a bad economy with tv's that now spy on you for ad revenue. Justify it because you think it looks great and you enjoy it, fine. Its subjective but I can understand it. Justifying it for 4k content is well, idiotic.

This is like people who make jokes about optical storage being obsolete. All your 4k content is going to show up on the next version of blu-ray in stores before the net/broadcast. Downloading 100GB on average for a 2 hour movie is a joke for most people. Like 50GB games would be five years ago in my neck of the woods. I could have gotten that five years ago but it would take 5+ hours. Today it is 1-2 hours.

 

[Climber]

Kepe on naming 4k make-over and not originally shot in 4k.

The majority of those shoes are shot in 4k, so keep coming up with empty arguments.

 

[Climber]

Somehow I doubt the tech is that great in a $600-1000 4k tv as a $1700 one. And yes it is a fad simply because there is not a lot of content in 4k and won't be for 5 years minimum. Paying $200 more on average for a 4k tv only makes sense if it has some of the smart tv or some other tech you want. OLED is worth spending money on in my opinion. Heck, just give me a good panel with good guts and no smart tv crap. I don't need that stuff on my tv.

Find me an excellent 65" 1080p rated tv for movies, sports, and gaming for under $1500. The only one would be the Vizio m series and it sucks for sports, especially hockey and baseball. The colors and blacks on the js8500 are considerably better. The last run of LGs oled displays sucked.horrible yellow banding at an angle. The newer ones have this fixed but I'm not dropping 5k on a 55" oled 4k display. The 1080p sets had poor CPU performance and poor uniformity and are only being made through this year. Next year it is all 4k sets for lgs oled displays.

12... 12 whole shows. Look, I'm glad you love the 4k content you have and you love your tv but this is scraping the bottom of the barrel here. At the average viewing distance you're not gonna tell the difference unless you're watching 4k off youtube all the time and I hope you have the bandwidth for it.

There are more shows than just 12 and more are being released this year. Between Netflix and Amazon I believe they are releasing all new shows in 4k options. 4k tv sets perform just as well on 1080p content as 1080p sets do so the price difference between high rated sets is a minimum. Sorry if $200 extra upsets your delicate balance, but hey spend just as much on an inferior oled display now.

You're trying to justify spending $1k+ on a tv for miniscule content that is out now or will be in the near future if not lifetime of the tv, in a bad economy with tv's that now spy on you for ad revenue. Justify it because you think it looks great and you enjoy it, fine. Its subjective but I can understand it. Justifying it for 4k content is well, idiotic.

Apparently I'm confused. I'm not justifying spending $1k plus one tv. I'm rebutting the fact you and your brother think people are idiots for buying something they see value in. The closest rated 1080p set was $500 less than my TV but performed poorly in sports and gaming and bright scenes like hockey arenas. Sorry I'm not dropping $1500 on a 1080p set that won't allow me to watch 75% of the shows I want in a manner I want. Spending an extra $200 was worth every penny since I can watch my sports, movies, and when I feel like gaming I can game in 4k. My TV gets used and every aspect, yes 4k gets used.

So no, not everyone is an idiot for making a purchase you disagree with.

 

[dr.kevin]

i would buy a 4k tv.... if my laptop could output to it.

i'd prefer 1 4k tv to 4 monitors.

 

[Ragenrok]

Problem is a lot of the new tech isn't worth the money to upgrade to, would I love a new high end OLED TV? Sure but honestly my older Samsung 1080p 52" plasma TV works and looks great still. I don't need all this "smart TV" junk as every device you buy from game consoles to bluray players and media streams do the exact same thing. Only way its being moved from my entertainment room is when I buy a projector and build a home theater then my plasma will go upstairs in the family room. They can only milk people for so much before it hits a point of diminishing returns where people don't see the need to spend more. No real benefit for upgrading electronics will keep sales down.

 

[Geef]

I work at Best Buy and I Funkin' hate all those tablet makers who make 20 tablets with one number or letter difference and I gotta get them all setup in the store with their own spot!

 

[tybert7]

Give me a reason to buy a 4k TV and I will. Blame the cable companies and lack of 4k content. Cox Cable still broadcasts @ 720p. Why the fuck do I want a 4k TV?

Why are you relying on 20th century communications companies to deliver 4k ?


Get netflix, jesus.

netflix
amazon prime
youtube
vudu

all of those have some 4k content.

 

[Ranulfo]

Apparently I'm confused. I'm not justifying spending $1k plus one tv. I'm rebutting the fact you and your brother think people are idiots for buying something they see value in. The closest rated 1080p set was $500 less than my TV but performed poorly in sports and gaming and bright scenes like hockey arenas. Sorry I'm not dropping $1500 on a 1080p set that won't allow me to watch 75% of the shows I want in a manner I want. Spending an extra $200 was worth every penny since I can watch my sports, movies, and when I feel like gaming I can game in 4k. My TV gets used and every aspect, yes 4k gets used.

So no, not everyone is an idiot for making a purchase you disagree with.

Justifying your purchase for the reasons you mentioned are understandable. Taking 4k seriously as a metric to buy a new tv is still idiotic. There are few sources now and yeah netflix/amazon/hulu are great and all but do you have the bandwidth to handle it? Most do not and will not for five or more years and we better hope bandwidth caps aren't implemented.

 

[Climber]

Holy shit I needed bandwidth for those services? Dammit I didn't take that into account. I wonder if I need electricity as well? No wonder I thought the blacks were so good on this tv it has just been off the entire time...

 

[Draax]

Maybe BestBuy is seeing a slump in sales because the people who work there don't know their ass from a hole in the ground?

I went in looking for a passive DP adapter, for my eyefinity setup, and some BestBuy "expert" proceeded to berate me because I wouldn't buy his overpriced active DP adapter. He told me that a passive wouldn't work (it did as a passive works for res 1080 and under) and that I didn't know what I was talking about and didn't understand the technology.

 

[tesfaye]

I know people like to look hip when they take a crap on Best Buy but if you have been to one recently they have improved their pricing and overall competitiveness. We need brick and mortar places to "touch and feel" the products. I would never buy a TV without seeing it first as not all panels are created equal.

I've been to Best Buy to purchase a GPS and some other computer related crap for the kids and the experience very good. The sales reps were attentive but not bothersome, and while it could totally be luck of the draw, the reps I dealt with were knowledgeable. At least in NYC I have had good experiences recently at three different locations.

 

[Darunion]

Justifying your purchase for the reasons you mentioned are understandable. Taking 4k seriously as a metric to buy a new tv is still idiotic. There are few sources now and yeah netflix/amazon/hulu are great and all but do you have the bandwidth to handle it? Most do not and will not for five or more years and we better hope bandwidth caps aren't implemented.

So buying with looking forward in mind is bad? Not to mention, having a 4k tv can double as a really nice monitor if needed.

No one is stupid for buying something they feel is worth the money they spent. When people can get off their judgmental high horses and realize that they spend too much energy deciding what others should buy or not buy, they could more easily find happiness in life.

Maybe getting 4k isnt bad, lets say I buy a 1080p, and next summer bandwidth goes up, now I feel left out. What is so wrong with attempting to future proof oneself instead of locking them in at a display resolution that at this point is becoming dated fast. The "it is good enough crowd" has used the same arguments since LP's and VHS tapes.