HardOCP News
[H] News
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ThinkComputers has put together a list of what they believe are the best AIO CPU coolers of 2014. Comparing that list to the AIO coolers we reviewed in 2014, I'd say they have a pretty solid list.
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Best AIO CPU Coolers of 2014
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SoulCreatr
Limp Gawd
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I was expecting to see a great comparison with tables/charts of data and objective listings of the best AIOs, but that article was complete garbage. Can this seriously be a "best" list when there is no data or tables or actual proof that a comparison was made, or do they expect the readers to go through all their other reviews to dig for that information? Lazy reporting is lazy and is nothing more than click bait. A shame to see this promoted on [H].
The [H] review of the TT AIO is MUCH better but still does not compare it to, perhaps one of the most common AIO, the Corsair H100i. Although they at least they have the H90, but that is the only one of the product line. I do see a number of people with the NZXT/CM units so it is good to see those on the [H] list.
I would love to see a new AIO comparison list with an overclocked i7 5960X as that thing puts out a lot more heat than an i7 4770k. You can even improve on that buy throwing in the top notch air coolers like Noctua.
The [H] review of the TT AIO is MUCH better but still does not compare it to, perhaps one of the most common AIO, the Corsair H100i. Although they at least they have the H90, but that is the only one of the product line. I do see a number of people with the NZXT/CM units so it is good to see those on the [H] list.
I would love to see a new AIO comparison list with an overclocked i7 5960X as that thing puts out a lot more heat than an i7 4770k. You can even improve on that buy throwing in the top notch air coolers like Noctua.
Most all AIO coolers out ther now are CLC .. and therefore Asetek. IMHO they are all pretty much junk. Only other AIO I know of are Swiftech H140-X. H220-X and H240-X. They all have a pump using over twice as much power as Asetek pumps, have a much better CPU block design, have a quality copper radiator and are not factory sealed for life. Coolant can be changed / topped up, components can be added / changed, etc. While still not a custom component system they give the user serviceability features better and quieter performance, quality and expandability / flexibility that the CLC coolers do not.
While Mugen 4 is a good cooler and I hate CLC coolers in general I have to say that many will give as good or better performance even at same noise levels as Mugen 4. This should not be construed to mean I condone CLC cooler. In my opinion they will not last as long, make more noise, are over priced, poorly built, undependable for long term use, etc. But even with all those faults, most do cool better than Mugen 4 .. but I would rather have Mugen 4 anyway.
While Mugen 4 is a good cooler and I hate CLC coolers in general I have to say that many will give as good or better performance even at same noise levels as Mugen 4. This should not be construed to mean I condone CLC cooler. In my opinion they will not last as long, make more noise, are over priced, poorly built, undependable for long term use, etc. But even with all those faults, most do cool better than Mugen 4 .. but I would rather have Mugen 4 anyway.
Thanks. I've been on the fence concerning AIO cooling systems primarily because I'm not seeing any meaningful performance gain over a quality heatsink cooling unit. Factor in the cost and hassle of installation, I'm finding an AIO or CLC cooling system difficult to justify. But that's just me. I understand the cool factor as a reason someone might want that type of cooler.
I used the Mugen 4 merely as an example of a low cost/high performing heatsink unit. I know there are better performing units. Heck, I'm still poking along on an old Arctic Freezer Pro that I purchased 3 years ago...
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Honestly, there is only the ego massage some get from having these CLCs and thinking they have joined the H2O cooling elite. All they really is Wannabe Water groupies who got caught up in the advertising hype. Maybe in the future when Asetek patent times out and they loose their monopoly / strangle hold on CLC coolers there will be improvement and become viable options to top air, but for now only Swiftech are .. and as I said, they are AIO, but not CLC.
There have been way too many pump failures for me to even consider CLCs. Look at all the "refurbished" CLCs that have been on the market. They can only be coming for 2 possible sources; 1/ rebuilt defective coolers, or 2/ manufacturers' are selling new stock as refurbished because "reburbished" CLCs have a much shorter warranty period than "new" CLCs do. .. at least those are the only two I can think of.
There have been way too many pump failures for me to even consider CLCs. Look at all the "refurbished" CLCs that have been on the market. They can only be coming for 2 possible sources; 1/ rebuilt defective coolers, or 2/ manufacturers' are selling new stock as refurbished because "reburbished" CLCs have a much shorter warranty period than "new" CLCs do. .. at least those are the only two I can think of.
Araxie
Supreme [H]ardness
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you will wish to have the cooling performance of a Glacer 240L, Nepton 280L, Kraken X61, Swiftech H220/H220-X or the H240-X without compromise of space, without have care to block RAM slots, without the added weight on the motherboard.. no matter how great its the air cooler... the best air cooler (and that's talking about the legendary NH-D14, SilverArrow SB-E, or newer like Dark Rock PRO3) can only be compared to the cooling performance of the Corsair H100i with stock fans (even if those after +1600RPM are noticeable).. the installation its also easier but yes the cost its higher but nothing too extreme either at stock configuration, if you want to use better fans and push/pull configurations well yes you have to spend a little more... but you have even greater performance/noise ratio.
You need to get your facts straighten out mate.
* Only the H220-X and H240-X match top air.
* CLCs take pu as much space as air.
* It takes only a little research to avoid RAM clearance and PCIE socket clearance issues.
* CLCs take up as much space as air coolers and compromise space just like air coolers.
* Weight on motherboard is not an issue. For every motherboard damaged by a heavy air cooler there is one damaged by a leak.
* The air coolers you list are not the best cooling
* The H100i has a legacy of pump failures, control issues and is extremely loud.
* The others you listed are no better than top air and are much louder.
* Using "better" fans and push/pull still have noise levels equal to or greater than air cooling with similar fans.
* You have to spend at least twice as much for even a lower level H2O system (H220-X / H240-X) to be equal to top air .. and that's only on the CPU.
* All that and you still have an air cooled GPU making noise .. air cooled PSU, air cooled motherboard, etc.
Araxie
Supreme [H]ardness
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can you back any of those statement?. because [H] results tend to simply disagree with you from 2 articles:
From a older review you can see how the H100i its on par with the Silverstone HE-01:
But also tested specifically in a bench vs NH-D14
Another Link in 1155 and 2011 socket test again AIO H100i in quiet outperform the Phanteks PH-TC14PE at full speed by 5degrees. or 11degrees when the H100i its at max speed (but this is insanely loud but again the 11Degrees delta are there)
To end here. the Majority of users who tend to attack CLC and AIO is because they have never used it..
Top air coolers that match the CLCs in performance are usually massive tower coolers that have a much larger footprint. Most CLCs are loud because the stock fans are invariably total garbage. Slap on some nice Noctuas or Phanteks that come bundled with air coolers and the noise drops immensely while improving thermal performance. I know because I used to have an H110 and tested it with both the stock fans and some Noctua iPPC fans. If memory serves the Noctua fans improved thermals by 5C under load, while actually decreasing the noise output.
That last statement a lame.
A person does not need to use a product to see it's not all it's hyped up to be.
Those tests were not based on cooler intake air temp. They use room ambient. Using room ambient means the tests are not comparing coolers on their own merit, but are comparing system performance with different coolers. Cooler intake air temp is almost always warmer than room .. often 10-15c warmer during a load test .. and that is why we see results like you posted. As we do not have the same system as tester they have little meaning.
Check out George Cella's testing and reviews and you will see what I'm saying is true.
http://www.hitechlegion.com/reviews/cooling/liquid
Unknown-One
[H]F Junkie
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Maybe they're not cooling a CPU with it? Or maybe the layout of their motherboard / case prevents the installation of a gigantic air cooler?
An AIO cooler is pretty much the only aftermarket solution for GPU cooling that can be configured to dump heat directly out the back of the PC case.
That said, it's hard to get one of these AIO coolers to run quietly in any context. Getting truly quiet performance requires different fans and under-volting the pump. Out-of-the-box, the stock blower cooler on most graphics cards is quieter, ESPECIALLY when looking at noise levels while idle.
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Araxie
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That last statement a lame.
A person does not need to use a product to see it's not all it's hyped up to be.
Those tests were not based on cooler intake air temp. They use room ambient. Using room ambient means the tests are not comparing coolers on their own merit, but are comparing system performance with different coolers. Cooler intake air temp is almost always warmer than room .. often 10-15c warmer during a load test .. and that is why we see results like you posted. As we do not have the same system as tester they have little meaning.
Check out George Cella's testing and reviews and you will see what I'm saying is true.
What are you talking about?.. when you compare coolers it have to be in the exact same conditions.. same system, same TIM, SAME ROOM TEMP! as room temp play one of the more important role in the cooler temperature.. I DO NOT trust in any review that use temperature based in the delta temperature in different room temps and using that variation in CPU temp vs ambient. its just unreliable as if you use a cooler at 14C room temp and the same cooler at 24C room temp, the delta will be much higher than the extra 10C in room temp, the lower room temp the tighter delta you will receive in CPU temp vs Ambient, when you test coolers in the same conditions including ambient temp the only variable applicable and comparable will be the cooler and those are the results posted by [H], which BTW use Open WorkBench test so no case included there and coolers are tested by "it's own merits".. will you say that a cooler tested at different room temp will perform always equal?.. are you willing to say the [H] test are inaccurate and the George Cella are most reliable??..
I agree with most of what you are saying. True, using delta when baseline temp is changing in double digits is not accurate. Even testing on an open bench does not mean the cooler intake air temp is the same as the room. Using cooler intake remove this possibility.
[H] reviews say:
To me that says they are doing the testing in a Carbide series chassis. Therefore the cooler intake temp will be different than room ambient.
Testing in a system and using only room ambient is testing only that system with that cooler. The results are only applicable to that specific system because even the exact same components in a different case most likely will change the cooler intake air temperature.
Changing components in a case or changing cases with same components usually changes cooler intake air temps.
Result is any testing done without the use of cooler / radiator intake air temp being used as a baseline is probably has a very big margin of error.
For example if we both have identical components in different cases; a Enthoo Primo case and a Define R4 using stock fans and configuration, the Enthoo Primo will most likely give lower CPU & GPU temps.
The reason us Enthoo Primo has better airflow and venting.
Now let's assume I get CPU readings of 60c and you get readings of 70c in a 23c room.
That means we have a 10c difference in recorded CPU temperatures in same room for same components, but in different cases.
Now if we add the cooler intake air temp to the criteria we will most likely find that the Define R4 cooler intake air temp is something like 36-38c and the Enthoo Primo cooler intake air temp is 26-28c.
When we use cooler intake air temp the CPU delta temps are the same for both systems. While this may not be the most accurate way to compare, it's definitely more accurate than using room ambient.
But using room ambient they are 10c different.
This is an example, not an actual test. But it is a good example of why cooler intake air temp should be used when comparing cooler, not room ambient.
Comparing coolers in a case and system using room ambient only gives us the cooler performance in that case and with that system. But it does not give us an accurate representation of how well the cooler is actually performing. We need to know the cooler intake air temp to determine the coolers' cooling ability instead of the combined cooler and case's cooling ability.
I hope you can see what I am trying to say.
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Ultra-m-a-n
Limp Gawd
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Thought id throw my 2¢ here.
CLCs are nice, but one thing you that is the big win for air in my book is reliability. No worrying about pumps dying, even if it takes years, the only thing that can die on an air cooler is the the fans.
CLCs have their place, and if people like the look of them, that's their preference. But the only ones worth it in my book are the H220 variants. The low end ones are beat by air in the same price range, but they are cool when you do a GPU mod.
CLCs are nice, but one thing you that is the big win for air in my book is reliability. No worrying about pumps dying, even if it takes years, the only thing that can die on an air cooler is the the fans.
CLCs have their place, and if people like the look of them, that's their preference. But the only ones worth it in my book are the H220 variants. The low end ones are beat by air in the same price range, but they are cool when you do a GPU mod.
I went for CLC. Why? My old Xigmatek DarkKnight couldn't cool properly the 4790K and the temps went up to 80C. I also wanted something that would not be so bulky and made possible install of other 8GB of ram. I went for Nepton 280L, my temps on stock 4790K go during gaming to about 61C, there is none to little noise. I really like it - mounting was no problem, it basically don't obstruct anything on my motherboard.
And cost, well I paid $30 more foor 280L, than i'd have to spend for Noctua DH15. And it does not stress the motherboard and does not require so much space.
And cost, well I paid $30 more foor 280L, than i'd have to spend for Noctua DH15. And it does not stress the motherboard and does not require so much space.
Raijintek Triton might be better than other AIO/CLCs, but is still marginal at best. Obviously the pump in unproven so we won't know for a couple of years how well it holds up. Although they include dye packs, removing seal to open cooler and install dye changes warranty to Raijintek's opinion of what caused problems .. combine that with only a 2 year warranty is not good in my book.
This is my thoughts precisely although for me it's the Thermalright True spirit 140. I gave $50 for it and it out performs any AIO in a similar set up.
My D14 has been stressing my board for 4 years almost. No issues. Tough really. You hear horror stories of the CLC/AIO busting after a week or month and damaging expensive hardware. For me, its just not worth it anymore. If you are not going to go all out with a true water cooling solution, why take a chance on a CLC/AIO? Air is pretty much superior in every respect other than case cooling and maybe ITX solutions.
Funny isn't it?
We hear all this talk about how much our heavy air coolers are stressing our motherboards but I have never seen on damaged by the cooler weight.
We hear about CLC pump failures and leaks .. and we see pictures and post showing it not just talk, but really is happening.
We hear all this talk about how much our heavy air coolers are stressing our motherboards but I have never seen on damaged by the cooler weight.
We hear about CLC pump failures and leaks .. and we see pictures and post showing it not just talk, but really is happening.
jhatfie
[H]ard|Gawd
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Having swapped from a Thermalright Silver Arrow to a Glacer 240L, I can state that the 240L outperformed it by a fair amount at similar noise levels and does not cover half my motherboard in the process. Having messed with custom water cooling for years and now taking the AIO easy way out, I have never had to deal with pump failure and the only tiny leak I had was due to stress on a DD waterblock acrylic top cracking with me swapping hardware all the time (many years ago). However, I have read of lots of issues with the Glacer lately that does have me concerned, mine has been going fine for a year, but I may pull it out and replace it with something else as I sort of prefer my computer not catching on fire.
I am big fan of AIO coolers as well.
Easy to install, leaves plenty of room around the CPU, which minimizes compatibility issues with RAM and great performance (temps are silence).
Also, cost is not much of a concern for me.
For those worrying about horror stories, I would also suggest to never cross a street as your could be run over by a car. I do not care about anecdotal evidence that you find on web forums but I would seriously consider leaking issue if it was supported by credible statistics.
Easy to install, leaves plenty of room around the CPU, which minimizes compatibility issues with RAM and great performance (temps are silence).
Also, cost is not much of a concern for me.
For those worrying about horror stories, I would also suggest to never cross a street as your could be run over by a car. I do not care about anecdotal evidence that you find on web forums but I would seriously consider leaking issue if it was supported by credible statistics.
Araxie
Supreme [H]ardness
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hey but Air cooler are much better =D..
ha ha ha, this is EPIC..
i'm one of those who changed all of my machines Air coolers for AIO and never had a single issue.. i'm happier with my experience instead of looking for 3rd ones..I dont understand what the point of using an AIO/CLC is though. You can get an air cooler that performs equal or better and usually for a cheaper price. If you are going to take a chance on a failure and a leak destroying parts, you might as well go full on water cooling and do it right. Why half ass it for less than or at best equal to air cooling which is guaranteed solution?
I have used a CLC before. Used an H50 for awhile w/ a push/pull Delta. It could not cool as well as a D14. Granted, that H50 is old tech but I also tried a H100i. Not only was it loud as fuck, it performed slightly worse than my D14 (couple degrees) and it was quite a bit more expensive ($100 vs. $65 for my D14). Just do not understand the hype over them and how everyone believes they are so far superior to air cooling.
Its not about crossing a street and living in a box. Its about why take a chance on a product that does not perform quite as well (with the exception of a very select few AIO/CLC options) but costs more and runs the risk of destroying expensive components.
SoulCreatr
Limp Gawd
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For every review you show that they are worse I am sure people can find reviews showing they are better than your D14. The simple fact is that it really comes down to preference and computer build choices. Some cases may do better with an air cooler and some may do better with CLC. I went AIO because I like the cleaner look and they are easy to clean and much less maintenance than a custom loop. I highly doubt my temps would be improved by going to an air cooler and I doubt it would be as quiet.
Any time you introduce more complexity there is a higher chance of failure, but if you are going to make that argument where do you stop with it? Do you still drive a 1960's car with no electronics because they have less chance to break down? Still using one of those Zack Morris cell phones because it won't have any trouble syncing or security concerns? For some the benefits out-weigh the risks, you may not see it that way but that does not mean that isn't the case for others.
My theory with CLC is that the 240+ size rad units are ideal/minimum as they provide about the same amount of surface area that the leading air coolers provide. Furthermore, I feel that CLC do better with higher TDP applications due to more ability to absorb the heat from better heat transference (constant water moving vs heat pipes). That is why I really want to see a good air vs CLC comparison in a few different cases with an overclocked i7 5960X. That is just my thoughts though and I really don't have any fancy degrees or reviews to back that up although I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express once.
seanclayton
Gawd
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So much lies and elitism up in hurr.
I agree.
As for the crossing the street bit, it's just trolling.
It is a fact that CLC have a significantly higher failure rate than air coolers .. that most are significantly noisier .. that most don't cool as well as air coolers, especially at same noise level .. that they are generally significantly more expensive .. and if a CLC fails it's a significant expense because the entire CLC has to be replaced to get system operational again. With an air cooler it only requires a fan replacement .. not the complete cooling system .. and any fan will do in a pinch.
I can understand why many of those who got sucked in by the CLC hype are reluctant about admitting they are not all they were / are hyped up to be.
Still, it is interesting how often I see posts of people who were sucked in / strayed from air cooler and are now born again air heads.
I can understand why many of those who got sucked in by the CLC hype are reluctant about admitting they are not all they were / are hyped up to be.
Still, it is interesting how often I see posts of people who were sucked in / strayed from air cooler and are now born again air heads.
They are... for GPUs where an air heat sink doesn't have 8 inches of height and huge overall volume to work with.
They are... for GPUs where an air heat sink doesn't have 8 inches of height and huge overall volume to work with.
No, they are not.
GPU coolers not having as big or as much cooling as CPU coolers has no bearing on how CLC market is more hype than fact.
In fact there are no full block GPU CLCs out there, only adapters to use CPU block CLCs with little or nothing being done to improve cooling on the other GPU components.
For every review of the D14 you cant find many CLC that perform better. D14 is one of the top air coolers for the last few years. Far better than an Arrow and Hyper 212. I dont know of ANY CLC/AIO that can cool as well as a D14 at the same noise level. The D14 is VERY quiet for a high end cooler that can take on a lot of wattage. It keeps my 2600k under 80c @ 1.48v w/ HT on and about 63-65c HT off. My H100i could not do that and it was noisy as hell.
That 240 Glacer cost how much? It performs only slightly better than a D14 AT BEST if I remember right. D15 is probably neck and neck for cheaper, less worry, and better longevity. I just do not understand where the hype is for a more expensive solution w/ a potential to damage other parts when it fails for only equal or less performance than an air cooler. Its one thing to go all out water cooling, as thats customization and you can actually get something from it. Enjoyment and cooler temps. What do you gain from going CLC/AIO? Higher cost? Maybe equal but probably less performance? More potential for failure and damaging of other parts? Cant see the benefit.
Like I said in my post above, there are situations that warrant one and I can understand. But for someone with quality airflow case (usually on the medium+ size), it makes no sense to run CLC/AIO in my opinion other than bragging rights of "Oh, I have water cooling too!".
GlazedDonut
n00b
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I seriously dont understand the hate for CLC/AIO around here.
This is an H110 with stock fans setup as pull and exhaust.
This is after running Aida64 for an [email protected] volts and the system is quiet enough to hear when my hard drive starts and stops spinning.
This is an H110 with stock fans setup as pull and exhaust.
This is after running Aida64 for an [email protected] volts and the system is quiet enough to hear when my hard drive starts and stops spinning.
It's not a hate of AIO / CLC. (All CLCs are AIOs, but not all AIOs are CLCs)
It's a hate of CLC advertising hype and reviews that show them performing way better than top air coolers when in fact can only the best CLCs can barely keep up with top air
It's a hate of CLC advertising hype and reviews that show them performing way better than top air coolers when in fact can only the best CLCs can barely keep up with top air
Zepher
[H]ipster Replacement
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I currently use a Freezer 7 Pro but just ordered an H80i since the Freezer blocks my Ram slots.
system runs pretty cool with the Freezer,
I went with the Corsair since I have an H60 on my 3770K and that cooler has been running great for almost 4 years non stop.
I generally don't care about lights on my PC, but for this one I put red fans in, the GPU lights up the name of the card, the soundcard lights up red, and the Corsair logo on the H80i lights up.
system runs pretty cool with the Freezer,
I went with the Corsair since I have an H60 on my 3770K and that cooler has been running great for almost 4 years non stop.
I generally don't care about lights on my PC, but for this one I put red fans in, the GPU lights up the name of the card, the soundcard lights up red, and the Corsair logo on the H80i lights up.
I knew better than to buy a AIO. If I could kick my own butt I would. Buying a H100i was a total waste of hard earned cash. Just ordered the parts today for my own cooling loop. Can't wait to get the H100i out of my machine and to the range to use it for something worth while as a target. Then scoop the parts up and ship them to Corsair.
omegatotal
Gawd
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What issues are you having with it?
I have a h100 classic push exhaust config with non-corsair fans on a q6600 that is oc'd to 3.6ghz. I dont think any air cooler would be able to handle it, while the h100 barely does. but compared to a built WC setup it was definitely more cost effective.
My only gripe is corsair's lack of software and firmware updates for their corsairlink cooling nodes and thus the h100 fan controller (which has a known issue with some PWM fans that requires intervention to get functioning correctly every power cycle)
I would have loved to spend the money on a custom setup but this h100 does the job and can still be fairly quiet when not loaded even with fans that do 200cfm each (pwm fans ftw)
I really need to pull that cpu out and replace it with this xeon thats been on my desk for ages staring at me :-P
The software sucks. My H100i has been letting the cpu temps rise since install sept. 2014. I've worked with 5 tim's, many fan combos. And it just keeps getting worse. I have a sick feeling the china fluid in my unit is turning into jello and pluging up the copper base. The aluminum rad is truly crap. The first rule of water cooling is never mix alum, brass and copper. Just based on rule #1 I knew better than to get this junk. I just ordered proper water cooling parts today. Hope they are here before next weekend so I can get this machine finished up and move on to other projects.
Sounds like the pump is going bad .. progressively moving less coolant resulting in progressively higher CPU temps. I'm assuming the radiator is clean.