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Best 30" Monitor?
- Thread starter Kenjiwing
- Start date
I really like my Dell 3008wfp. Some claim there's bad input lag with the monitor, but I haven't noticed any. If you want a professional/workstation oriented monitor, there's the NEC 3090WQXi. Note this monitor isn't really meant for watching movies or playing games though.
There's one from HP LP3065 (similar to 3007 with no scaler), and another from Gateway XHD3000 (similar to 3008 with built in scaler). I would still go with Dell because they offer better warranty coverage including a zero dead pixel policy and their monitors offer height adjustable stands, which to me is very important given the huge real estate 30 inchers provide.
MetalSluggX
Limp Gawd
- Joined
- Jan 30, 2003
- Messages
- 245
I'll copy and paste somthing I found really usefull that KCComp said on a different forum:
"The dirty secret of many of the 30" displays is the digital delay. This is additional time to process the incoming data stream prior to displaying the picture. It's NOT the same as LCD pixel response time but is inclusive of that time.
Would you buy a modern display if it were actually 30+ ms instead of the advertised 6-8 ms? 32 ms delay is two whole frames at 60 fps.
Digital delay has of course zero impact on photo editing or document work. It only matters for gaming and movie playback. In gaming, it means that the player you are shooting at is actually 2 frames away from where you think they are. In movie playback, since there is no facility in nearly any PC playback application to compensate for lip sync delay, you're going to start seeing noticeble lip sync issues. Studies have shown that viewers perceive lip sync problems of 30 ms or greater.
DigitalVersus has tested digital delay on the 3007WFP, 3008WFP, and Samsung 305T. Using their same methods (mirrored display on a CRT and the panel, with the same motion softare as DigitalVersus, photographed with a DSLR), I've tested delay on the Apple 30" Cinema Display and the Gateway XHD3000.
The Dell 3007WFP and the Apple 30" Cinema Display have no appreciable delay. Both use the same LG panel without a scaler. DigitalVersus tests show 11.5 ms delay for the 3007WFP-HC and my tests show similar results for the Apple. The HP 3065 also uses the same panel and although I haven't formally tested it, in quick evaluation results it seems to have the same negligible delay.
The Samsung 305T and the Gateway XHD3000 have significant delay. Both use the same Samsung panel and in this case the panel itself (and ancillary direct electronics) appear to cause the delay. DigitalVersus tested the Samsung at 29.3 ms and my tests show at least as much on the Gateway. Note my Gateway tests were performed with the scaler disabled. In resolutions supported by the scaler (the Gateway operates only in pass-through mode at 2560x1600 without any color control, etc.) the results would inevitably be worse. Any scaler is going to add a minimum of 15 ms, and probably 30 ms, just by itself because scalers always buffer at least one full frame for processing.
The Gateway XHD3000 also had a lot more ghosting with its pixel response than the Apple 30" Cinema Display, despite the Apple specs showing slower response.
The Dell 3008WFP has the worst digital delay of the lot, undoubtedly because its scaler does not appear to run in pass-through at native resolution. The scaler is still active at 2560x1600. DigitalVersus shows a 46.6 ms delay which seems very coincidental, i.e. approximately 15 ms native panel delay + 30 ms scaler delay.
I was quite enthusiastic about the 3008WFP until I discovered this issue. At this point I consider the only viable 30" displays for movies & gaming to be the Dell 3007WFP-HC, HP 3065LP and Apple 30" Cinema Display. Of the three, the Apple has the highest quality chassis. The Apple and the HP have about equal backlight uniformity while the Dell can very greatly in uniformity quality from unit to unit and at best is never as good as the Apple & HP. The Dell 3007WFP-HC and the HP have wide-gamut capability while the Apple does not.
All told, it seems like the HP 3065LP is the best overall, with good uniformity, wide gamut, no appreciable delay, and reasonable build quality (better than the 3007WFP-HC, not as good as the brushed-aluminum Apple). If only Apple would get off the stick and release a wide-gamut version!
In summary:
Negligible delay: Dell 3007WFP/3007WFP-HC, Apple 30" Cinema Display, HP LP3065
Significant delay: Samsung 305T, Gateway XHD3000
Unacceptable delay: Dell 3008WFP
KC"
"The dirty secret of many of the 30" displays is the digital delay. This is additional time to process the incoming data stream prior to displaying the picture. It's NOT the same as LCD pixel response time but is inclusive of that time.
Would you buy a modern display if it were actually 30+ ms instead of the advertised 6-8 ms? 32 ms delay is two whole frames at 60 fps.
Digital delay has of course zero impact on photo editing or document work. It only matters for gaming and movie playback. In gaming, it means that the player you are shooting at is actually 2 frames away from where you think they are. In movie playback, since there is no facility in nearly any PC playback application to compensate for lip sync delay, you're going to start seeing noticeble lip sync issues. Studies have shown that viewers perceive lip sync problems of 30 ms or greater.
DigitalVersus has tested digital delay on the 3007WFP, 3008WFP, and Samsung 305T. Using their same methods (mirrored display on a CRT and the panel, with the same motion softare as DigitalVersus, photographed with a DSLR), I've tested delay on the Apple 30" Cinema Display and the Gateway XHD3000.
The Dell 3007WFP and the Apple 30" Cinema Display have no appreciable delay. Both use the same LG panel without a scaler. DigitalVersus tests show 11.5 ms delay for the 3007WFP-HC and my tests show similar results for the Apple. The HP 3065 also uses the same panel and although I haven't formally tested it, in quick evaluation results it seems to have the same negligible delay.
The Samsung 305T and the Gateway XHD3000 have significant delay. Both use the same Samsung panel and in this case the panel itself (and ancillary direct electronics) appear to cause the delay. DigitalVersus tested the Samsung at 29.3 ms and my tests show at least as much on the Gateway. Note my Gateway tests were performed with the scaler disabled. In resolutions supported by the scaler (the Gateway operates only in pass-through mode at 2560x1600 without any color control, etc.) the results would inevitably be worse. Any scaler is going to add a minimum of 15 ms, and probably 30 ms, just by itself because scalers always buffer at least one full frame for processing.
The Gateway XHD3000 also had a lot more ghosting with its pixel response than the Apple 30" Cinema Display, despite the Apple specs showing slower response.
The Dell 3008WFP has the worst digital delay of the lot, undoubtedly because its scaler does not appear to run in pass-through at native resolution. The scaler is still active at 2560x1600. DigitalVersus shows a 46.6 ms delay which seems very coincidental, i.e. approximately 15 ms native panel delay + 30 ms scaler delay.
I was quite enthusiastic about the 3008WFP until I discovered this issue. At this point I consider the only viable 30" displays for movies & gaming to be the Dell 3007WFP-HC, HP 3065LP and Apple 30" Cinema Display. Of the three, the Apple has the highest quality chassis. The Apple and the HP have about equal backlight uniformity while the Dell can very greatly in uniformity quality from unit to unit and at best is never as good as the Apple & HP. The Dell 3007WFP-HC and the HP have wide-gamut capability while the Apple does not.
All told, it seems like the HP 3065LP is the best overall, with good uniformity, wide gamut, no appreciable delay, and reasonable build quality (better than the 3007WFP-HC, not as good as the brushed-aluminum Apple). If only Apple would get off the stick and release a wide-gamut version!
In summary:
Negligible delay: Dell 3007WFP/3007WFP-HC, Apple 30" Cinema Display, HP LP3065
Significant delay: Samsung 305T, Gateway XHD3000
Unacceptable delay: Dell 3008WFP
KC"
young wing
2[H]4U
- Joined
- Jan 21, 2007
- Messages
- 2,552
This question has never been asked here before.
Given the cost, one could argue that it's possibly worth waiting for the 3010 to see. I think input lag is getting better with newer models, some offering gaming modes that bypass the scaler and thus get down to panel delay alone. White LED backlighting potentiates longer life, lower color change over that life, and possible contrast and color purity improvements.
Forced to choose I'd say 3008 if you can life with the lag. 3007 if you can't. 305T if you prefer middle of the road and better contrast than either of the first two. I wouldn't bother with the XHD3000.
Forced to choose I'd say 3008 if you can life with the lag. 3007 if you can't. 305T if you prefer middle of the road and better contrast than either of the first two. I wouldn't bother with the XHD3000.
I've only experienced the lp3065. Satisfied with both of mine. Solid stands and the built in input selector is pretty cool if you can see yourself using that. No OSD sucks ass so you'll probably want to calibrate whatever you end up buying. All of these 30inch monitors have been out for a while now, so you might be better off waiting a little longer to see whats on the horizon. Apple has to be considering a product refresh for the 30" CD.
Wildwhippy
Limp Gawd
- Joined
- Jun 7, 2004
- Messages
- 313
how come the LG W3000H is not included on the list?
l88bastard
2[H]4U
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- 3,710
I love, my xhd3000, there is no backlight bleeding and if you play at 2560x1600 native there is no input lag, so I really dont get all the hate. If your gonna hate, then hate on gateways terrible customer service.
Now my two dell 2007fps that flank it, well they have backlight bleeding, but I got none on the xhd3000
Now my two dell 2007fps that flank it, well they have backlight bleeding, but I got none on the xhd3000
The XHD3000 screen is very good. The customer service, especially some time after the sale has been made and something goes wrong is not good. Dell gets accolades time and again for, sometimes years after the sale, going the distance and replacing a monitor that has somehow failed.
I prefer S-PVA vs IPS for contrast. I prefer Samsung over LG for far better quality control. But when it comes to monitors, the support you get from the vendor matters a lot. Dell isn't perfect, and sometimes you do have to defend your rights as a purchaser with some vigor, but Dell looks really good when you hear the war stories with some of the other vendors regarding bad monitors and getting replacements. I'm fairly sure Gateway's warranty was 1 year only. Mind you the Samsung panel that goes into the Gateway is warrantied for 3 years from Samsung when sold in the 305T, so the panel is a good one, but I don't really trust Gateway's service, and clearly they don't want to hear from you after a year.
So as much as I prefer S-PVA panels, either get it from Samsung (lacking inputs) or else go with S-IPS from Dell or HP. And make sure you have a warranty period suitable to the kind of money you are spending on such a premium item.
The 2711 with the LED backlight and 2560x1440 resolution would probably get me to buy if the contrast ratio isn't horrible. Personally the U2410 CR is not good enough for me, so I'm hoping the 2711 is better. It's all rumours at this point, as even the Apple 27" hasn't been solidly tested. I don't like IPS as much, and I prefer 16:10 but the 27" has "enough of the stuff I want" to make me leap.
I prefer S-PVA vs IPS for contrast. I prefer Samsung over LG for far better quality control. But when it comes to monitors, the support you get from the vendor matters a lot. Dell isn't perfect, and sometimes you do have to defend your rights as a purchaser with some vigor, but Dell looks really good when you hear the war stories with some of the other vendors regarding bad monitors and getting replacements. I'm fairly sure Gateway's warranty was 1 year only. Mind you the Samsung panel that goes into the Gateway is warrantied for 3 years from Samsung when sold in the 305T, so the panel is a good one, but I don't really trust Gateway's service, and clearly they don't want to hear from you after a year.
So as much as I prefer S-PVA panels, either get it from Samsung (lacking inputs) or else go with S-IPS from Dell or HP. And make sure you have a warranty period suitable to the kind of money you are spending on such a premium item.
The 2711 with the LED backlight and 2560x1440 resolution would probably get me to buy if the contrast ratio isn't horrible. Personally the U2410 CR is not good enough for me, so I'm hoping the 2711 is better. It's all rumours at this point, as even the Apple 27" hasn't been solidly tested. I don't like IPS as much, and I prefer 16:10 but the 27" has "enough of the stuff I want" to make me leap.
Lateralus
More [H]uman than Human
- Joined
- Aug 7, 2004
- Messages
- 18,485
I am in love with my 3007-HC. I don't know why I waited so long to join the 30" club, but I'm sooo glad I did. One of the best upgrades ever. Totally worth it.
patrickgerry
Weaksauce
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- Aug 20, 2005
- Messages
- 99
another vote for the LG W3000H
AbsintheGuy
Limp Gawd
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I am thinking of purchasing a Dell 3007WFP-HC from Costco for $999.00. Seems like a fairly good deal. Anyway, I also have a Dell 2405 FPW and 8800GTX graphics card. Will this card run both 3007 and the 2405 at the same time? I intend to run Everquest II on the 3007 and I want to have the 2405 available for internet browsing. Maybe I need to get a cheap graphics card to run the 2405?