Bdie + X570 Master + 5800X3D Ram OC Timings Advice?

supra21

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I am well aware the gains to be had will be small with 5800x3d but I am looking to get the timings as tight as possible. I have been looking online and Zen Ram OC leaderboards spreadsheet and can see some awesome results with various dual rank b-die 32gb kits but I do not seem able to get stable (TestMem) with similar timings.

I have the Team Group 8Pack Edition 32GB (2x16GB) TDPPD432G3200HC14ADC01 ram kit and this is the best I have been able to do whist passing a TestMem test:
Screenshot 2023-05-01 181448no error.jpg


Dropping tCL to 14 requires tRFC to be at 666 (auto) in order to pass a TestMem test. Additionally I do not want to exceed 1.5v on the ram either. From what I've seen online this should be possible also with tighter secondary and tertiary timings but I just can't seem to get stable. I have also seen tighter timings stable with the exact same ram kit but paired with a 5800x.

Any suggestions?
 
Since you have dual rank RAM you want to run RttNom 6, RttWr 3 RttPark 3 and try lower ProcOdt, these settings should improve stability.
You could also try VGDG IOD ~1.050-1.060V but if memory serves this is more for pushing past 3800.
Try drop the SCL to 4.

You can find a excellent guide on tweaking timings here which will give you some rules to follow and let you know how some timings need to be set in relation to others for optimal performance, because you can set a timing to low vs another which will result in a loss of performance.
https://github.com/integralfx/MemTestHelper/blob/oc-guide/DDR4 OC Guide.md
 
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1. That's a good timings set, and the FCLK of 1900 is not too shabby. Have you tried FCLK 1933 / 2000?

2. For longer test, try to download the other config of TM5 here.

3. If you want to decrease the vdimm (to ~1.45v) and generate less heat, try 3800 with primary 16-16-16-16, trdrd/twrwr scl to 2, tWR 16 --> tRTP 8, tCWL 14.
 
From memory 2 is best for two single rank sticks and SCL 4 is usually best for 4 single or two dual rank. But it has been a while since I was overclocking RAM and there is just to much to remember, so try both and see if there is a performance or stability difference unlessriev90 can confirm that my memory is faulty.
 
Since you have dual rank RAM you want to run RttNom 6, RttWr 3 RttPark 3 and try lower ProcOdt, these settings should improve stability.
You could also try VGDG IOD ~1.050-1.060V but if memory serves this is more for pushing past 3800.
Try drop the SCL to 4.

You can find a excellent guide on tweaking timings here which will give you some rules to follow and let you know how some timings need to be set in relation to others for optimal performance, because you can set a timing to low vs another which will result in a loss of performance.
https://github.com/integralfx/MemTestHelper/blob/oc-guide/DDR4 OC Guide.md
The settings you suggested did stabilize tCL 14 much further into the test, but still errors out:
Screenshot 2023-05-02 131952close.jpg


Here's stable results from someone else with the same kit with a 5800x + x570 mobo, but they are not stable on my setup:
jVSrPsx.png


I will try reverting back to my previous tCL and voltages and try SCL 4.
Also oddly I cannot set exact voltages on my mobo, for example to get IOD voltage to 1.0625v I had to enter 11063 in the bios. If I enter 1060/1061/1062 I get 1.0595v. Only voltage that is "exactly" as I enter is VSOC, but even then I sometimes catch it jumping up to 1.313v in Zen Timings for a second, but its rare.
 
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1. That's a good timings set, and the FCLK of 1900 is not too shabby. Have you tried FCLK 1933 / 2000?

2. For longer test, try to download the other config of TM5 here.

3. If you want to decrease the vdimm (to ~1.45v) and generate less heat, try 3800 with primary 16-16-16-16, trdrd/twrwr scl to 2, tWR 16 --> tRTP 8, tCWL 14.

1. Anything beyond FCLK 1900 results in WHEA errors, even tried 1.55v but really don't wanna drive more than 1.5v daily.
2. Thanks for link
3. I don't mind 1.5v, my case has fairly good ventilation (x2 140mm intake, x1 120mm intake, x3 120mm exhaust (240mm aio) in a meishfy c.
 
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The settings you suggested did stabilize tCL 14 much further into the test, but still errors out:
3800C14 is a tall ask and most sticks will need over 1.5v unless you got very lucky.
I have 8x8GB sticks of b die 4x3200c14 and 4x4400c19 and only two of them can do 3800c14 with under 1.5V.

The settings you are following have VSCO lower than VDDG which is not ideal so it may not be the best settings to follow.


Raising tWRRD to 3 may also help your performance and stability with a dual rank kit.
To get rid of that error 0 at c14 here is a few other things you could try.

Lift tRC in order with the rule of tRC = tRP + tRAS & Increase more if unstable.
Try relax tRRD and tWTR.
 
From memory 2 is best for two single rank sticks and SCL 4 is usually best for 4 single or two dual rank. But it has been a while since I was overclocking RAM and there is just to much to remember, so try both and see if there is a performance or stability difference unlessriev90 can confirm that my memory is faulty.
Haven't tried dual rank b-die, though, so that's just my assumption that if we can loose the primary timings (OP was 16-15-15-15 which will require more voltage) to 16-16-16-16, then the SCL can be decreased to 2 (can confirm with any of my b-die kits I've tried after 2021 :D )

1. Anything beyond FCLK 1900 results in WHEA errors, even tried 1.55v but really don't wanna drive more than 1.5v daily.
2. Thanks for link
3. I don't mind 1.5v, my case has fairly good ventilation (x2 140mm intake, x1 120mm intake, x3 120mm exhaust (240mm aio) in a meishfy c.

I can confirm that I can run trident z neo 3600c16 to 4000 14-15-15-15 with 1.6v daily stable with minimum front air intake, but just food for thought, the more heat the ram produces, the harder it's to be stabilized.

This is the screenshot of my neo running at 4000 (but it's not dual rank, though):

Ryzen 5600x 4600mhz 1.21v Neo 4000mhz 14-15-15-15-30 trfc 270 1.6v SoC 1.2v.JPG


Do note that the SCL in the screenshot is still set to 4, because at the time I had this rig (5600x, msi b450m pro max, neo at early 2021), I still don't know if the SCL can be set to 2 haha.
 
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3800C14 is a tall ask and most sticks will need over 1.5v unless you got very lucky.
I have 8x8GB sticks of b die 4x3200c14 and 4x4400c19 and only two of them can do 3800c14 with under 1.5V.

The settings you are following have VSCO lower than VDDG which is not ideal so it may not be the best settings to follow.


Raising tWRRD to 3 may also help your performance and stability with a dual rank kit.
To get rid of that error 0 at c14 here is a few other things you could try.

Lift tRC in order with the rule of tRC = tRP + tRAS & Increase more if unstable.
Try relax tRRD and tWTR.
Tried loosening timings based on guide and what you suggested but it after a few faliures it was voltage that was the issue, 1.51v passed:
Screenshot 2023-05-03 154000cl14STABLE.jpg

Going to see if I can now tighten any further.
 
Was expecting a better latency result tbh. (135 processes in task manager when bench was run):
Screenshot 2023-05-03 171341CL14 FINAL.jpg
 
Lower your VDDG IOD to ~0.07V bellow VSOC and the VDDG CCD to ~0.05V bellow IOD and see if you can drop the CLDO VDDP back to 900 without loosing stability.
VDDG draws it's power from the VSOC so it cant be higher and running the same will result in Vdrop hence why it is best to keep it lower.
CCD does not need to be bellow IOD but it typically doesn't need to be as high.

Background process can have a huge impact on latency so try run it in windows safe mode to rule that out as a problem.

Try
tRCDWR 9
tRAS 27
tRC 40 (Could also try 33 but most likely unstable)
tRDRD both 5
tWRWR both 7

With tRC 40 try tRFC
240
178
110
If tRC 33 works try tRFC
231
172
106


Leave this till last.
You may be able to run GDM Disabled 2T or if you set AddCmdSetup to 56 it may run GDM Disabled 1T.
Setting it to 56 drops performance, for me it was still faster at 1T with GDM disabled but others have found running 2T GDM Disabled without touching AddCmdSetup better while most leave GDM enabled as it's much easier.
 
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Lower your VDDG IOD to ~0.07V bellow VSOC and the VDDG CCD to ~0.05V bellow IOD and see if you can drop the CLDO VDDP back to 900 without loosing stability.
VDDG draws it's power from the VSOC so it cant be higher and running the same will result in Vdrop hence why it is best to keep it lower.
CCD does not need to be bellow IOD but it typically doesn't need to be as high.

Background process can have a huge impact on latency so try run it in windows safe mode to rule that out as a problem.

Try
tRCDWR 9
tRAS 27
tRC 40 (Could also try 33 but most likely unstable)
tRDRD both 5
tWRWR both 7

With tRC 40 try tRFC
240
178
110
If tRC 33 works try tRFC
231
172
106


Leave this till last.
You may be able to run GDM Disabled 2T or if you set AddCmdSetup to 56 it may run GDM Disabled 1T.
Setting it to 56 drops performance, for me it was still faster at 1T with GDM disabled but others have found running 2T GDM Disabled without touching AddCmdSetup better while most leave GDM enabled as it's much easier.
Cheers, will give this a shot tomorrow and post my results.
 
A little more detail on those choices.

tRCDWR 9 (I think this gives you a tRCD value of 12 for calculating tRAS once averaged with tRCDRD 15)
tRAS 27 (I remember it being suggested to add +2 to the combined value of tRCD and tRP)
 
A little more detail on those choices.

tRCDWR 9 (I think this gives you a tRCD value of 12 for calculating tRAS once averaged with tRCDRD 15)
tRAS 27 (I remember it being suggested to add +2 to the combined value of tRCD and tRP)
In terms of the voltages suggested as I mentioned earlier I cannot get exact values, what I enter in my bios is not what Zentimings reports the voltage is, for example VSOC in bios 901 = 0.902v or 900 = 0897v in zentimings, so the voltages in the screenshot is the closest I could get to intended voltage.
That being said I was able to pass testmem with the settings below 🎉.
tRC 33 and anything below tRFC 240 gave errors (I assume higher voltage would help here but 1.51v is my limit). Same with either variation of GDM disabled (1T or 2T) also with AddCmdSetup 56, but all did boot to desktop.
Screenshot 2023-05-04 015451TIGHTERTIMINGS.jpg


After 3rd run of AIDA bench:
cachemem3RDRUN.png


Safe mode:
cachememSAFEMODE.png
 
Would be interesting to see gdm disabled latency test even if it needs some extra juice just for the test.
Extra v is only a problem from a heat stability point of view as the RAM can take it.

You may be able to lower ProcOdt a little.
With GDM disabled only you could try
tWR 10 with tRTP 5

But otherwise it's looking about as tight as you can get.
It might also be interesting to see a before and after tuning timespy score.


Edit: oh and tCKE 9 may also help stability at 3800
Also CkeDrvStr 24-30 may allow you to run less v.
Probably leave addr at 20 but you can also try the others at 24
 
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Would be interesting to see gdm disabled latency test even if it needs some extra juice just for the test.
Extra v is only a problem from a heat stability point of view as the RAM can take it.
I would run it at 1.55v but this ram does not have any thermal probes (as far as I am aware) so I don't know what the temps are.
 
If temps were high I can guarantee you would have errors at 240 tRFC and tRC 40.

Oh also try tRDWR 7 or 9 if that fails.
 
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Would be interesting to see gdm disabled latency test even if it needs some extra juice just for the test.
Extra v is only a problem from a heat stability point of view as the RAM can take it.

You may be able to lower ProcOdt a little.
With GDM disabled only you could try
tWR 10 with tRTP 5

But otherwise it's looking about as tight as you can get.
It might also be interesting to see a before and after tuning timespy score.


Edit: oh and tCKE 9 may also help stability at 3800
Also CkeDrvStr 24-30 may allow you to run less v.
Probably leave addr at 20 but you can also try the others at 24
GDM disabled with [email protected] = bsod, with 56 it boots but errors in test
GDM disabled [email protected] = boot without 56 but errors, latency was around 58.5ns

So sticking with GDM enabled, plus tRDWR 9 is stable :)

Here is a comparison of a game benchmark (which seems to be very memory sensitive)

[Previous ram kit] Corsair Doms (4x8gb @3600mhz 16-15-19-19-21-1T):
bench 1.jpg


TG 8Pack Edition 32GB B-die (2x16gb@3600mhz XMP):
bench 2 b-die.jpg


TG 8Pack Edition 32GB B-die (3800mhz 14-15-13-27-40-1T)
Bench 7 bdie stable fine tuned 1.jpg


Pretty huge leap in score even with a 5800X3D :).
 
That is a nice improvement for a 3d chip.

I just noticed that you are only running 3 pass of TM5 you need to edit the .cfg file to increase that to around 24 to be a solid stability test.

Also not sure if you missed this late edit which may help if you're current settings prove unstable.

Edit: oh and tCKE 9 may also help stability at 3800
Also CkeDrvStr 24-30 may allow you to run less v.
Probably leave addr at 20 but you can also try the others at 24.
 
That is a nice improvement for a 3d chip.

I just noticed that you are only running 3 pass of TM5 you need to edit the .cfg file to increase that to around 24 to be a solid stability test.

Also not sure if you missed this late edit which may help if you're current settings prove unstable.

Edit: oh and tCKE 9 may also help stability at 3800
Also CkeDrvStr 24-30 may allow you to run less v.
Probably leave addr at 20 but you can also try the others at 24.
Yeah going to leave the longer stability test running next week whilst i'm at work.
 
That is a nice improvement for a 3d chip.

I just noticed that you are only running 3 pass of TM5 you need to edit the .cfg file to increase that to around 24 to be a solid stability test.

Also not sure if you missed this late edit which may help if you're current settings prove unstable.

Edit: oh and tCKE 9 may also help stability at 3800
Also CkeDrvStr 24-30 may allow you to run less v.
Probably leave addr at 20 but you can also try the others at 24.
100% STABLE.jpg
 
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