BBB Says Mass Effect 3 Was Falsely Advertised

weebling1

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And? Doesn't a cost of entry to a complete help weed out illegitmate claims?

Do you want the complaints to be filed for free? Really? Over the internet? And you don't see a problem with this?

People have no longer have any understanding of what Laissez-faire and Caveat emptor meant in the marketplace.
 
D

Deleted member 134608

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To me this is just further evidence that consoles are holding back what is possible in gaming.

I mean can you imagine if they had forked the series with ME3 and made the version they did now for consoles and an entirely different game for PC? Hell they could have used the money made for the PC development.

Bioware could realize what this series was dreamed up to be with a PC exclusive. I mean what is 50Gigs of hard drive space? Not a big deal.

They could make a game that has dozens of possible climaxes, scenarios, experiences and endings. The game could end quickly or over a long period based on what you do. They could allow you to play through the experiences of other characters on what effect your Shepard had on their lives. You could have been able to actually experience the war while running around building alliances and doing random favors. You could have consequences to characters or even entire planets by what you choose to do, what time it takes you. Different missions appear and some dissappear. The ability to do missions to make amends for previous choices....

Developers need to wake up and realize whats possible on PC. Sure you could argue the smaller market, but games used to create PC market share. People used to buy PCs just to play games, that could happen again.
 

Greg-O

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252
Developers need to wake up and realize whats possible on PC. Sure you could argue the smaller market, but games used to create PC market share. People used to buy PCs just to play games, that could happen again.

I totally agree with you on this Vic, although I did grow up playing console games I also did grow up loving to play RTS games on PC. Also for the people that do prefer a controller over a keyboard and mouse that is not an issue with most current games these days, yes partially due to the games being ports.
 

SkribbelKat

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To me this is just further evidence that consoles are holding back what is possible in gaming. /snip

I agree with much of what you're saying, at least in principal. The trouble is that developers are generally using increases in compute power to improve effects quality (mostly graphics) versus expanding the scope of a game or implementing original ideas.

Furthermore, replayability is potentially a liability since it discourages future purchases that are caused by people who are bored with their current game(s).

Finally, more complex, interesting titles are limited by the abilities of humans making them. It, after a point, becomes too difficult and costly to manage a large staff building a dream world that responds realistically across a huge number of potential variables that give the illusion of ultimate freedom.

While I've been wishing for depth and massive scale since playing TES: Arena on a 486DX at 33 MHz, I'm of the mind that such a day might never come because of the massive undertaking in development something like that might demand.

Then again, The Unreal World looks a bit promising and is very fun in its current version after about 20 years in development. www.jmp.fi/~smaarane/urw.html
 
D

Deleted member 134608

Guest
I agree with much of what you're saying, at least in principal. The trouble is that developers are generally using increases in compute power to improve effects quality (mostly graphics) versus expanding the scope of a game or implementing original ideas.

Furthermore, replayability is potentially a liability since it discourages future purchases that are caused by people who are bored with their current game(s).

Finally, more complex, interesting titles are limited by the abilities of humans making them. It, after a point, becomes too difficult and costly to manage a large staff building a dream world that responds realistically across a huge number of potential variables that give the illusion of ultimate freedom.

While I've been wishing for depth and massive scale since playing TES: Arena on a 486DX at 33 MHz, I'm of the mind that such a day might never come because of the massive undertaking in development something like that might demand.

Then again, The Unreal World looks a bit promising and is very fun in its current version after about 20 years in development. www.jmp.fi/~smaarane/urw.html

I'm sure you could compensate with "lost" money from high re-play value with DLC.

I would also like to think the reason to get into bed with a company like EA is to have the money and resources required to build such a game, rather than just celebrity voice actors and market exposure.

I agree, the day may never come, which is sad because making such a game is possible right now with PCs.
 

roaf85

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No one has mentioned that the reason people hate the BBB is that people pay for the rating. I am not sure if many of you are homeowners but some of the best places I have dealt with are not BBB rated and they have excellent customer service. This is contractors like plumbers etc.

I have used companies such as home inspection services/electricians and hell even car dealerships that are A+ rated only to have a hell of a time with getting refunds after filling complaints.

A company here A&A Windows, does not advertise locally, they carry 2 year guarantees, they will even acknowledge the BBB report means nothing other than to show people they have it and they are literally one of the best companies I have done business with.

Geico is a terrible company that have outright denied a 200 claim I had against one of their drivers. I had to take them to small claims court and file a complaint with the state of nebraska. The BBB wouldn't even investigate the claim for me. Makes sense since it is insurance, but why do they allow them to be BBB certified?

TL:DR - Companies pay for the rating. It offers nothing in terms of protection for the consumer other than a feel good. Companies that don't pay for the A+ rating are downgraded regardless of having no complaints.
 

Cobalt35

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I did the best thing the 3+ million people should of done. Not buy it until some real feed back (not the bullshit reviews) were posted. After Dragon Age II I knew better. Fool me once, shame on you, but fool me twice....not going to happen.
This. I haven't bought it and don't intend to. I have absolutely no desire to play a game that destroys what I consider was a great franchise... haven't even played the demo.
 

Kitebasher

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The ending was not even original. It was a near direct ripoff of the original Deus Ex's ending.

YES! Someone else saw it too. Every time I would make a post I would always start comparing the two in my mind. The one big difference was that Deus Ex left me satisfied, but since it had already been done, Mass Effect 3 did not.
 

roaf85

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Someone really saw Deus Ex? How? I can compare about 100 more comparisons to the Matrix vs Deus Ex HR. By the way DX HR was another game that had unoriginal endings similar to ME3 with just the dialogue and pictures being different.

Synicate was a terrible ending to a game. Where is the beef there?
 

roaf85

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Shit reading > me. When I think Deus Ex I am thinking HR vs the original. Sorry for the misunderstanding, but the other point of HR's shitty endings still remain.
 

mashie

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Who is this "Bio Ware" BBB is talking about in the article? I mean I know BioWare made ME3 but they aren't mentioned a single time. :confused:
 

NKDietrich

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Shit reading > me. When I think Deus Ex I am thinking HR vs the original. Sorry for the misunderstanding, but the other point of HR's shitty endings still remain.

DXHR had a number of mitigating circumstances that made its shitty endings less of a big deal.

They weren't wrapping up a three-game series that people had been enjoying for years. It's a prequel, and presumably, not the final story of Adam Jensen. We already know what happens in the long run, just not what happens 5 minutes after the ending. Second, most of the fan worries about DXHR were centered around the fact that it would not stand up in terms of gameplay. Turns out the gameplay was very good, so people could overlook some of its other flaws like the lame boss fights and the ending.

Also DXHR fanbase contains less of the whiny child market that can't frame their game criticisms in a way other than foam-at-the-mouth rage.
 

swalters

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I dislike the BBB. First, any customer can file a complaint with them for any reason. Then the company has to jump through hoops and fill out paperwork if they don't want a blemish on their record. Second, they charge you to become a BBB certified company. That just means you get a piece of paper saying you paid some fees and had no complaints, so you're a good company to buy from. They're more of an advertisement company than a measure of the company's actual customer service record.

Regarding ME3, I'm not saying that false advertisements were NOT made. And while I wasn't thrilled with the ending, I enjoyed my overall experience with it. I think the gameplay was phenomenal and the rest of the story was very well done. I'm excited that Bioware is going to expand upon it to help add more closure for the fans, but at the same time I'm glad they didn't rewrite their ending.
 

armandh01

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To me this is just further evidence that consoles are holding back what is possible in gaming.

I mean can you imagine if they had forked the series with ME3 and made the version they did now for consoles and an entirely different game for PC? Hell they could have used the money made for the PC development.

Bioware could realize what this series was dreamed up to be with a PC exclusive. I mean what is 50Gigs of hard drive space? Not a big deal.

They could make a game that has dozens of possible climaxes, scenarios, experiences and endings. The game could end quickly or over a long period based on what you do. They could allow you to play through the experiences of other characters on what effect your Shepard had on their lives. You could have been able to actually experience the war while running around building alliances and doing random favors. You could have consequences to characters or even entire planets by what you choose to do, what time it takes you. Different missions appear and some dissappear. The ability to do missions to make amends for previous choices....

Developers need to wake up and realize whats possible on PC. Sure you could argue the smaller market, but games used to create PC market share. People used to buy PCs just to play games, that could happen again.

I'm all for hating on consoles when it comes to visual fidelity that pcs are superior at. But thinking there is some sort of superior creative freedom on pc is a load of shit.

Not to mention the more Bioware does, the buggier their product gets.
 

Breath_of_the_Dying

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Jan 8, 2007
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1,454
There are few developers that I trust buying day 1 anymore. And with my backlog of games, I'm perfectly fine waiting for every other game to drop significantly in price before getting it.

Honestly though, if I cleared my backlog of games I probably would've bought ME3 day one, but my backlog grows faster than I clear it with every steam sale.


Last year, the only games I remember buying Day 1 were Dark Souls and Skyrim.

This year, the only 2 games I see getting day 1 are Diablo 3 and Borderlands 2 (and possibly XIII vs if its this year, stll to early to tell).
 

Farkle

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No one has mentioned that the reason people hate the BBB is that people pay for the rating. I am not sure if many of you are homeowners but some of the best places I have dealt with are not BBB rated and they have excellent customer service. This is contractors like plumbers etc.

TL:DR - Companies pay for the rating. It offers nothing in terms of protection for the consumer other than a feel good. Companies that don't pay for the A+ rating are downgraded regardless of having no complaints.

This. I worked for a general business property maintenance company over a summer as a teenager. I pressure washed walkways, sprayed weeds, mowed lawn/removed debris and replaced outdoor light bulbs/fixtures/ballasts. They had quite a few bad ratings which all went away when the owner started subscribing to the BBB and paying dues. They had employees that stole materials, tools from construction companies and even office crap from job sites. They still had the same terrible service and theft related problems, but were an A+ rating by the time I quit in August of that year. BBB isn't out to protect the little man, they're out to sell subscriptions.
 

Steampunk

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All this negative feedback makes me not want to open my CE of ME3. Maybe i'll opened it when the new ending comes out. Hopefully, enough people will complain that they'll make the DLC ending free.
 

fdiaz78

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This is still an issue? Get over it folks. The ending sucked yes, but as a whole ME3 was well worth the price. I didn't feel cheated or demand my money back. I haven't felt so satisfied with my purchase since I bought a Honda. Move on already.
 

Eisenblut

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Feb 23, 2011
Messages
1,108
What we need is MDK3. Though I would fear for its well-being in the hands of Bioware these days. But there's really not much to screw up, I wouldn't think.
 

DeathPrincess

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Well I never claimed the product was "rendered completely useless". You're using some twisted logic to come to that conclusion. I wanted a full refund, which would be equivalent to "returning" the product (which is technically impossible due to it being a digital download).
The issues I was concerned with were multiplayer issues, centering around the hacking which was so rampant in the dec-jan time frame that server admins were being booted from their own servers due to glaring open security holes Dice left in the code, even after being told about them during alpha testing. And that's in addition to all the usual aimbotting, insta-killing, etc asshattery that usual comes with a hacker in an FPS. Add in that there was zero communication from DICE/EA regarding the issues until ... well actually I don't think they ever admitted there were issues... so yeah, hence the complaint. I also touched on a multitude of other things in my complaint, from Origin and it's spying, to Battlelog, to lack of "basic" pc shooter features, etc etc.

If every disgruntled gamer stood up for themselves and their (assumed) hard-earned money, then we might have a games industry that is both flourishing and fair to consumers. Personally I don't want the games industry to become a mirror image of the film or music industry.

The reason for return makes me think I can get full refunds for pretty much every game I have purchased ever. All valve games have crappy public games which means that on pub games it's nearly entirely unplayable even though it promotes online play. All the unreal tournaments don't have loads of people playing anymore or even at the time of purchase and also still have swathes of people running hacks and aimbots. RO2 at launch had you being kicked every 2 minutes by punkbuster for a huge list of reasons such as "running too fast" because you held shift too long or if you fell out a window for "flying" or kicking entire teams just because. Compared to that BF3 is entirely bugfree.

Having launch bugs is pretty much a standard game feature, the more complex they become the more bugs there shall probably be. If companies and programmers are not allowed bugs or gamers will deserve refunds, then games are going to get very very simple and basic. Features will get left out or not bothered with, especially new stuff, content will be removed if there is a possibility that it will cause issues. Most people were able to play from launch onwards. Usually waiting a few weeks means the bugs get ironed out.

Gamers, especially on the PC like to moan about everything, probably one of the reasons why making PC games seems less and less attractive. If companies know that releasing a game on PC means that they will get swathes of returns for small issues, then they probably wont bother to release there anymore. It wouldn't be financially viable or rewarding to do so.

Origin doesn't "spy" on you either. That was some conspiricy theory made by a single nutjob which was proven false about 10 minutes later but for some reason was continued as it made a good "shock" story. Battlelog is what it is, just a different way of doing things, it's just a replacement for the main menu, after a few seconds of getting used to it doesn't negatively impact anything really. It's not really different from it being on steam. Both services you have to log into, and don't work if theres no internet.

The BBB is like paypal user complaints. Pretty much whatever the consumer asks for the consumer is going to get, because the consumer is always right, or the seller gets sanctioned heavily. There is no balance to it, at all.

Why is that logical?

Eat half the cake, pay for half... Why isn't it? :p
 

DirtyB

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Millions of copies sold disagree with you.

Thats ok never been one to follow the masses of retards and nerds that like to RP and talk for hours and then play a game with horrid controls, flow, pace and overall gameplay. Ill stick to valve and blizzard.
 

roaf85

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The BBB is like paypal user complaints. Pretty much whatever the consumer asks for the consumer is going to get, because the consumer is always right, or the seller gets sanctioned heavily. There is no balance to it, at all.

Did you miss some of the posts in this thread? The BBB doesn't do shit for customers. I have filed 2-3 complaints with companies in my area and Geico and the BBB just closed the case with some bullshit resolution about how they don't do investigations or that the business just told them they were following up.

Seriously the only recourse anyone has is legal recourse which requires a shit load of time and money.
 

lilbabycat

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The reason for return makes me think I can get full refunds for pretty much every game I have purchased ever.....Compared to that BF3 is entirely bugfree.
Saying that other games also have similar issues doesn't mean that EA is not in the wrong.
Having launch bugs is pretty much a standard game feature, the more complex they become the more bugs there shall probably be. ....Usually waiting a few weeks means the bugs get ironed out.
Did you ignore the part about the hacking issues being known from alpha? The issues I described were not fixed until late february, months after the release and many months after becoming known
Gamers, especially on the PC like to moan about everything, probably one of the reasons why making PC games seems less and less attractive. If companies know that releasing a game on PC means that they will get swathes of returns for small issues, then they probably wont bother to release there anymore. It wouldn't be financially viable or rewarding to do so.

Holding companies accountable for their product is not a bad thing in my mind. Why should I accept a product that not only has issues, but is also inferior to the previous product from the same developer?

Origin doesn't "spy" on you either. That was some conspiricy theory made by a single nutjob which was proven false about 10 minutes later but for some reason was continued as it made a good "shock" story.

Whether or not it does, they explicitly give themselves the right to do so in their ToS, and if you say "no", you can't play, period. I don't trust EA, do you?


As far as BBB itself, I don't particularly like the company either, but it is virtually the ONLY way of getting results from behemoth's like EA as an individual.

It seems to me that you are suffering from an advanced case of complacency, and frankly people that accept mediocrity disgust me.
 

roaf85

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As far as BBB itself, I don't particularly like the company either, but it is virtually the ONLY way of getting results from behemoth's like EA as an individual.

It seems to me that you are suffering from an advanced case of complacency, and frankly people that accept mediocrity disgust me.

BBB is something after the fact. I can understand if you hired a contractor and they fucked up something in your house and you can't establish communication. In my findings really most people don't care. If someone isn't willing to correct a business mistake with you over the phone, then the BBB sure as hell isn't going to be able to do anything about it. BBB plain and simple is just a feel good to get people to say "oh geez this company is BBB certified they must do good work".

It isnt always the case and in this economy where customer service seems to be a thing of the past in lieu of raping the next consumer, but for a video game?

That is static. Your video game copy is 99.9 percent of the time going to be the same as the next person who bought Mass Effect 3. Therefore since the experience is the same and repeatable it is easy to do research on it before buying it.

To get someone like BBB involved because you thought ME3 was false advertising is ridiculous for a few reasons. One being that the endings of games like Syndicate/Deus EX HR were pretty much just as bad and the other being that ME3 is playable. The ending is just a small part of the experience.
 

Guyverunit1

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I wouldn't trust much that the bbb had to say their ratings for bad companies is almost spot on but the rest of there policies are garbage. Could just be my local branch but they pretty much extorted or tried to my boss.

Back story is we were coming up for renewal and our score went from an A+ to b- With 0 complaints or issues my boss called about the drop in status after one of our loyal customers noticed it when writing a review for us on their site. Turns out we were coming up for renewal they asked if we wanted to renew my boss said no then they called when it was up for renewal the whole time still B- boss says no thanks about 2 days later we are back at an A+. They called again still a no.
 

roaf85

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I wouldn't trust much that the bbb had to say their ratings for bad companies is almost spot on but the rest of there policies are garbage. Could just be my local branch but they pretty much extorted or tried to my boss.

Back story is we were coming up for renewal and our score went from an A+ to b- With 0 complaints or issues my boss called about the drop in status after one of our loyal customers noticed it when writing a review for us on their site. Turns out we were coming up for renewal they asked if we wanted to renew my boss said no then they called when it was up for renewal the whole time still B- boss says no thanks about 2 days later we are back at an A+. They called again still a no.

That doesn't even make sense. It is hard to follow your post the way it is written.
 

Topweasel

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1,509
That doesn't even make sense. It is hard to follow your post the way it is written.

They called his boss ahead of time to see if they wanted to Renew, then some time later they got a B- rating, with no negative reviews, Boss calls in, nothing. Then when it their subscription expired they called back and where again told no by the Boss. Finally a while later they move them back up to A and called one last time and where told no.

Basically he is insinuating that they lowered the score for no other reason then deciding to no longer be a member, refused to switch it back, and then after a while kicked them back up in attempts to show them some love to get them to rejoin.
 

roaf85

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They called his boss ahead of time to see if they wanted to Renew, then some time later they got a B- rating, with no negative reviews, Boss calls in, nothing. Then when it their subscription expired they called back and where again told no by the Boss. Finally a while later they move them back up to A and called one last time and where told no.

Basically he is insinuating that they lowered the score for no other reason then deciding to no longer be a member, refused to switch it back, and then after a while kicked them back up in attempts to show them some love to get them to rejoin.

Ahh makes sense now. I figured that, but it was hard to follow. Either way shady as shit business practice.

Not sure why most people would even put up with that. If it was me I would ask to have my listing removed altogether.
 
D

Deleted member 134608

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I'm all for hating on consoles when it comes to visual fidelity that pcs are superior at. But thinking there is some sort of superior creative freedom on pc is a load of shit.

Not to mention the more Bioware does, the buggier their product gets.

I respectfully disagree about superior creativity on PCs. I mean PCs degraded from creative gaming into high fidelity console ports. Some games are just not possible on a console due to the lack of RAM and storage.

One could argue about the creativity of World of Warcraft, hell I don't even like it, but nobody could argue it is possible to run it on any console in its current form.

Sure you can be pretty creative on limited resources. Indie games and phone apps for example. Even the artwork people have come up with using a simple program like MS paint is fantastic. But give the same people much more powerful tools and I'm sure they come up with even more impressive work.

I agree on Bioware making buggy games though. They've been like that since Baldurs Gate.
 

Trimlock

[H]F Junkie
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Sep 23, 2005
Messages
15,228
I really enjoyed ME3.

So what it doesn't give an ending most wanted? It should be a shitty story if they gave everyone the ending they wanted. I give them credit for the backbone, this was a great game, I still think ME2 was the best :D.
 
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