battle of the forget parts: 6200 vs 9800

trek554

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BlackTigers91 said:
Would it help if I told you that I don't need eye candy to game?
would it help if i told you that eye candy is not an option with a 5200. Far Cry gets less than 20 fps at 800x600 on all low settings and no aa/af.
 

Demon_of_The_Fall

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BlackTigers91 said:
I can run BF2 on an FX5200 very strongly. Granted, its nothing spectacular, but my FX5200 is by no means weak...

With absolutely every setting whacked to the lowest, DX level 7 and everything, I got pretty poor performance out of my 5200, not enough to comfortably play competitively.

Halo 1 was a slideshow, even in 640x480

Joint Operations was.... horrible.

Far cry ran ok, just in 800x600 and low.

FX5200 = the worst purchase ever.
 

lithium726

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BlackTigers91 said:
That's odd, because every game I've thrown at it had played just fine... ;)
No game i threw at ran at anything near playable.

and this is WITHOUT eye candy.
 

Sabrewulf165

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I'm not going to make any bold assertions or bring overclocking into this, but my opinion is that the 9800 pro will be a much better performer than the 6200, stock for stock.
 

BlackTigers91

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trek554 said:
your own bencmarks show that the card is crap. Doom3 is not even playable at 640x480. i dont know how you got the Far Cry scores because my old 5700 got much lower than what you got for the 5200.
He had them all at ihgh settings on Doom 3 ;).
 

trek554

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BlackTigers91 said:
He had them all at ihgh settings on Doom 3 ;).
no he didnt. it says LQ which is low quality.

his own comments: "the game is playable at 640x480LQ with the ARB path and 2xAF, but could use some tweaks to play more smoothly"
 

pxc

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trek554 said:
your own bencmarks show that the card is crap. Doom3 is not even playable at 640x480. i dont know how you got the Far Cry scores because my old 5700 got much lower than what you got for the 5200.
Well, it was a classic PCI card and i've seen 0-20% performance improvements comparing AGP to PCI versions of the same card.

Doom 3 had all options enabled, and tweaking the game for a card of that class is usually required. I wanted to make the tests comparable to other scores, so I left the settings on. Doom 3 was playable on that card with reduced settings as I noted beneath the benchmarks.

I also had a 5700 Ultra in my HTPC and it got much better scores in Far Cry than that PCI 5200.

The 5200 in that post wound up in my nephew's computer and he happily played many games with it, until I upgraded the system to a newer Dell with an overclocked 6600 PCI-E.

I'm happy to debate any benchmark scores if you want to post some of your's.
 

Firebat

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ForBuilding said:
good topic, good to know for people like me who have a 6200 and are happy with it! the best i've owned was a 6600 and played prince of persia? i just play starcraft now...anyone here still play that?

Oh hell yes (Hence the name firebat ;) ) . I play halo2, doom3, F.E.A.R, oblivion, you name it. But when it's all said and done, i always return to my roots, Starcraft. It's just got something nothing else does...

On topic though, Im sure the 9800 would own a 6200. Why don't you bring both of them home and benchmark them both?
 

axeman

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when you are refering to the the 6200 vs the 9800 pro,there seems to be lots saying if the 6200 is overclocked to the nines it will be close to/even with/beat the 9800pro.
well if that be the case then why not overclock the 9800pro.
i will tell you why.then you would be right back to where you started ,the 9800pro destroying the 6200.
for the record i use a 9800xt in one rig a 6600gt in a second and a 6800ultra in a third,and in my opinion there is not a lot of difference between them.in benchmarks there is some difference but in playing games there is not much difference.i dont buy cards to do benchmarks.only the quality of playing the games counts with me. :)
 

lithium726

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axeman said:
well if that be the case then why not overclock the 9800pro.
Because the 9800 series was a .15um part, and the pro/XT were pretty damn close to their maximum clock speed already, the OCs people got on those cards were pretty small.
 

Trimlock

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not only the small increases on them, it most of the time made it unstable with out some sorta extra cooling

the thing with OC'ing the 6200's, they were shipping with the NV43 core, and had only had one quad disabled in the drivers, you could enable an extra 4 pipes on the card and sometimes unlock the mem bus too (if it wasn't already 128), so with the 6200 you had alot more potential, such as putting an extra 100mhz on the core and enable the other 50% of the GPU, where on hte 9800 you could get maybe 20-30mhz on the core and possibly 40mhz on the memory in a best case senario
 

Sabrewulf165

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And yet still it brings you back to the point of having to heavily overclock the 6200 in order to simply match or slightly defeat the 9800 at stock speeds. Why would someone using this machine for a casual guest gaming box want to suffer through all the hassles and possible instabillities of overclocking? This isnt' a purchasing decision, the guy already has both cards, so why would he complicate matters by doing heavy overclocking? All he asked was which one is better, and the 9800 pro/xt clearly wins in that regard.

I don't know why every comparison thread on this forum always boils down to overclocking f4nboys vs. stock performance. There's simply no excuse for a thread like this to be up to 3 or 4 pages.

PS - this post isn't directed at anyone in particular, just a general observation.
 

Trimlock

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Sabrewulf165 said:
And yet still it brings you back to the point of having to heavily overclock the 6200 in order to simply match or slightly defeat the 9800 at stock speeds. Why would someone using this machine for a casual guest gaming box want to suffer through all the hassles and possible instabillities of overclocking? This isnt' a purchasing decision, the guy already has both cards, so why would he complicate matters by doing heavy overclocking? All he asked was which one is better, and the 9800 pro/xt clearly wins in that regard.

I don't know why every comparison thread on this forum always boils down to overclocking f4nboys vs. stock performance. There's simply no excuse for a thread like this to be up to 3 or 4 pages.

PS - this post isn't directed at anyone in particular, just a general observation.

the last two posts above yours was to compare the fact that the 6200 had a shit ton of head room in it, OC'ing the 9800 wasnt really an option

heavily overclocking? all it required was toolbits to be installed, open the quad, and let it auto detect the card, i think the temp changes on the card were anywhere from 3c to 8c max

also, no one should ever wonder why a discussion on an enthusiasts forum like this one would ever turn into OC'ing or stock performance it is in our nature, no one here was making a biased opinion, except for the dude who wanted him to get it because it ruled in Doom3... and only Doom3...
 

Sabrewulf165

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Trimlock said:
the last two posts above yours was to compare the fact that the 6200 had a shit ton of head room in it, OC'ing the 9800 wasnt really an option

heavily overclocking? all it required was toolbits to be installed, open the quad, and let it auto detect the card, i think the temp changes on the card were anywhere from 3c to 8c max

also, no one should ever wonder why a discussion on an enthusiasts forum like this one would ever turn into OC'ing or stock performance it is in our nature, no one here was making a biased opinion, except for the dude who wanted him to get it because it ruled in Doom3... and only Doom3...

1) You're ignoring the fact that these tasks are not as simple for everyone as they might be for you or me. You're ASSUMING that everyone who comes here for advice knows how to do these things.

2) Just because this is an enthusiasts forum doesn't mean it's an OVERCLOCKERS forum. Plenty of people can be enthusiastic about computers and hardware without necessarily wanting to overclock. That whole "this is an enthusiast forum what are you doing here if you don't OC every single piece of hardware you come across as far as you can?" is such a lame cop-out anyway.

Just my two cents. I'm sure everyone with 5 minutes and an opinion will disagree with me. I'm not even sure why I bother posting in threads like this but here I am clicking "submit" again anyway.
 

Trimlock

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1) You're ignoring the fact that these tasks are not as simple for everyone as they might be for you or me. You're ASSUMING that everyone who comes here for advice knows how to do these things.

2) Just because this is an enthusiasts forum doesn't mean it's an OVERCLOCKERS forum. Plenty of people can be enthusiastic about computers and hardware without necessarily wanting to overclock. That whole "this is an enthusiast forum what are you doing here if you don't OC every single piece of hardware you come across as far as you can?" is such a lame cop-out anyway.

1) you are ignoring the fact that it is simple and if he wanted to know what to look for or how to do it, he wouldn't need alot of experience to accomplish it

2) you are ignoring the fact that this site is yet again for enthusiasts, not only but its something everyone here pretty much preaches and will always give a helping hand in it, wether asked for or not, you go to car forums to talk about cars, you go to a forum with a bunch of enthusiasts about video cards you are going to get pretty much you stated, i don't see why you are getting mad at this fact

not to mention just because i said its an enthusiast forum doesn't mean we are going to go ahead and recommend he OC everything before he talks to us, thats just simple ignorant talk right there ... just because people talk about it, what he could do with it and the fact its simple to do if he wanted to do it doesn't mean people won't give him the time of day till he does do it...

and back to your first statement, where did i assume he knew these things? this is a forum for advise, if he wanted advise on how to do ... he'd ask???? seriously the only one here assuming is you and it seems you are just looking for stupid shit to get mad at.
 

pxc

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DaCoOlNeSs said:
you are staring at the sky, I wonder why it was playable :rolleyes:
Actually, it's a building where Alyx was standing if you ever played HL2. She had moved when I took that screenshot. And no offense, but I played HL2 with that card and you didn't. :rolleyes:
 

Sabrewulf165

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Trimlock said:
1) you are ignoring the fact that it is simple and if he wanted to know what to look for or how to do it, he wouldn't need alot of experience to accomplish it

2) you are ignoring the fact that this site is yet again for enthusiasts, not only but its something everyone here pretty much preaches and will always give a helping hand in it, wether asked for or not, you go to car forums to talk about cars, you go to a forum with a bunch of enthusiasts about video cards you are going to get pretty much you stated, i don't see why you are getting mad at this fact

not to mention just because i said its an enthusiast forum doesn't mean we are going to go ahead and recommend he OC everything before he talks to us, thats just simple ignorant talk right there ... just because people talk about it, what he could do with it and the fact its simple to do if he wanted to do it doesn't mean people won't give him the time of day till he does do it...

and back to your first statement, where did i assume he knew these things? this is a forum for advise, if he wanted advise on how to do ... he'd ask???? seriously the only one here assuming is you and it seems you are just looking for stupid shit to get mad at.

You lost any credibility the moment you decided to insult me by calling me ignorant. If you're unable to discern my deliberate exaggeration from a literal statement, then perhaps you'd be better off not responding to my posts.

In any case, I've offered my opinion regarding the OP, and I'm very much done with this thread, so don't waste your time attempting to belittle me again or defending your hackneyed viewpoints, as I won't be checking this thread again.
 

Tigerblade

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MooseEdit: Namecall again, and see what happens.

Firstly, the 9800pro will destroy a 6200. No contest.

Secondly, you can't compare a oc'd card to a stock card.....only a !!!!!! who's on the side of the card being destroyed will do that.

Thirdly, the guy doesn't have to buy the cards, he just wants to know the fastest. I remember seeing a friend *trying* to play Quake 4 with a 6200 turbocache and it was embarassing, it needed to be on lowest everything to resemble playeable. I talked him into taking it back and investing in a 6600GT and the difference was night and day. 6600GT and 9800Pro are roughly on the same level so the choice is obvious.....

OP take the 9800Pro no question.
 

Marvelous

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6200 does not beat a 9800...

Even an overclocked 6600 does not beat a 9800...

I had a overclocked 6600 and a 9800 pro...

and overclocked 6600 is more close to 9700NP performance wise... What I noticed about 6600 is that it lacks memory bandwidth... So games that need more bandwidth will fluctuate frames in games... It goes up and down which makes the game feel out of sync when heavy textures are used.. Also the aniso on 6600 suck compared to 9800 series..
 

Tigerblade

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BlackTigers91 said:
Unlocked and OCed: 6200 > 9800PRO

Even when unlocked it only has the performance of a regular 6600 not the GT from what I've read, so the 9800Pro will still be faster at stock.

So piss about unlocking and overclocking to still be slower than a stock 9800Pro? Only a !!!!!! would do that.....
 

weebob

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overclocking either a 5200 or 6200 does make a massive difference to the frame rates those cards eek out, but it still comes under the age old saying "you cant polish a turd".

I once had a FX5200 ultra, ramping up the clocks on the card (mainly the core) turned farcry from a unplayable mess to a playable mess. I went from playing at 800x600 low details to being able to play at the same res with medium details, completely changing the atmosphere of the game for the better, but it was still far from good. I have since play though the game on an 7600GT with all details ramped up, its awesome. wish i didnt taint it with a shoddy FX5200.
 

BlackTigers91

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Tigerblade said:
Even when unlocked it only has the performance of a regular 6600 not the GT from what I've read, so the 9800Pro will still be faster at stock.

So piss about unlocking and overclocking to still be slower than a stock 9800Pro? Only a !!!!!! would do that.....
I was just trying to get everyone to shut up, sheesh. Calling me a !!!!!! becauseI'm wrong is pretty odd.
 

SilentScope

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As far as I'm concerned, the 6600GT is probably one of the only cards mentioned that will beat a 9800PRO or XT.
 

WhoBeDaPlaya

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BlackTigers91 said:
Absolutely, there is NO game I've run that couldn't be played...
Shens. I have a friend who's in exactly the same boat as you - claims that B&W 2, AOE 3, etc. all run "fine".

But then again, I will concede that you have your own definition of "fine". For me, "fine" is setting the res to 1280x1024, maxing out everything else and forgetting about it :D *looks lovingly at X1900XT*
 

BlackTigers91

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WhoBeDaPlaya said:
Shens. I have a friend who's in exactly the same boat as you - claims that B&W 2, AOE 3, etc. all run "fine".

But then again, I will concede that you have your own definition of "fine". For me, "fine" is setting the res to 1280x1024, maxing out everything else and forgetting about it :D *looks lovingly at X1900XT*
Hahaha, yeah. I don't need eye candy, AA, AF, or 1928309128x9813401298 resolutions :).

I'm perfectly content at 800x600, no effects..
 

trek554

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pxc said:
Actually, it's a building where Alyx was standing if you ever played HL2. She had moved when I took that screenshot. And no offense, but I played HL2 with that card and you didn't. :rolleyes:
i have a 6600 and HL2 is not smooth at 1600x1200 on medium settings. i have hard time believing you played at that resolution on a 6200.
 

lithium726

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trek554 said:
i have a 6600 and HL2 is not smooth at 1600x1200 on medium settings. i have hard time believing you played at that resolution on a 6200.
He had it unlocked and clocked to high heavens, I believe it was around 6600GT clockspeeds.
 

trek554

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lithium726 said:
He had it unlocked and clocked to high heavens, I believe it was around 6600GT clockspeeds.
well then that makes more sense. a stock 6200 sucks and most cannot be unlocked at all. my 6600 is just enough to tease me with most games. i tried overclocking but it really didnt make much difference especially with the super slow ddr1 memory. stock for a 6600 is 300/500 and the most i got was 380/590 so i dont see how that could even get close to 6600gt performance.
 

kirbyrj

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some 6200 (128-bit models), 6600, 6600GT all have same core with different pipes locked/unlocked and different core clocks.

If you're lucky, you can get a 6200 that will unlock to 6600 pipes@300mhz, and if you're really lucky, you may get one that approaches 500mhz core clock like 6600GT (or beyond in some extremely lucky cases...usually with additional cooling also). Either way, you only get DDR memory as opposed to the GDDR3 stuff, so you're memory bandwidth is shot compared to a real 6600GT because you'll never get anywhere near the 1Ghz memory clock speed. 600mhz is sometimes pushing it with that stuff.

6600GT > 9800Pro > 6200 unlocked to 6600+OC'd

That's the way I see it, but you also have to keep in mind that the 6 series does have some features that aren't present on the older 9800Pro. Whether or not the card is fast enough to take advantage of it is debateable. And in some cases the 6200 may beat a 9800Pro, but not in the vast majority of what's out there.

If you're on a really tight budget, the 6200 is probably a little cheaper, but it's a gamble as to what you'll get out of it where the 9800Pro is pretty much a given.
 

pxc

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Firebat said:
I wouldn't go that far...
I wouldn't either. :p Although a 6600 (or unlocked NV43 core 6200) at 500MHz+ has more shading power, the slow 128-bit memory holds it back a lot. It might be possible to find shader heavy games where an overclocked 6600 beats a 9800 Pro at medium resolution (1024x768 or 1280x1024), but that will be an exception.
----

Out of the 7 6200 and 6600 cards I bought, all did at least 525MHz stable on the core and 600-700MHz on the memory. I'd take the 9800 Pro over the 6200 if I was getting a card for free. Successful unlocking is only a 50% chance even with an A3 or older core, and NV43 6200s came in both 64-bit and 128-bit memory flavors.
 
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