Batman: Arkham City Performance Preview @ [H]

FrgMstr

Just Plain Mean
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Batman: Arkham City Performance Preview - Batman: Arkham City is upon us, and we wanted to give you a preliminary look at how performance is stacking up. We've found some issues running in DX11 that seem to be a detriment to gameplay. DX11 may not be the best option, at this time, for this game, our performance data and feedback explain why.
 
Guess I'll be waiting to pick this up once the DX11 bugs are ironed out...
 
I'll also be waiting for these bugs to be squashed. I thought this was going to be a day one purchase for me. Looks like this game will fall in line behind skyrim. Skyrim will probably be purchased next month after another patch that fixes crossfire large content aware and a few other quirks. This one will likely follow in early January. I'll just play battlefield 3 which is working flawlessly now since the last patch. The only thing I need in that game is a bit less of a performance hit when enabling deferred AA on AMD hardware.
 
Yeah I pulled myself away from Skyrim last night to test this and Serious Sam. The game is unplayable with DX11 enabled. I tried for close to an hour to get it running better but to no avail.

To say that I am disappointed is an understatement considering all the extra time they have had to get it running perfectly and that the original game had no issues at all. I guess BF3, SS and Skyrim are going to be priorities until a patch or driver update is released that fixes this.
 
Yeah I pulled myself away from Skyrim last night to test this and Serious Sam. The game is unplayable with DX11 enabled. I tried for close to an hour to get it running better but to no avail.

To say that I am disappointed is an understatement considering all the extra time they have had to get it running perfectly and that the original game had no issues at all. I guess BF3, SS and Skyrim are going to be priorities until a patch or driver update is released that fixes this.

How's serious sam? It looks like an interesting game that has sweet graphics and old school style gameplay that can be addictive. I might get that game if eyefinity and crossfire are working and performance is up to par with minimal bugs. I'll easily put that game above skyrim and batman until their bugs are fixed.
 
I don't care. The only reason I didn't buy this the instant it was released is that I had some out of the blue money problems come up as they always seem to do. As long as this is playable, whether DX9 or DX11, the second I've got $60 to spare, I'm buying. I loved the first game and its the only game I've ever played 3 times thru, back to back. Judging from videos and reviews, Ill love this one just as much so Ill be plenty happy with DX9 and when they fix DX11, Ill have a good excuse to play it thru again.

Same goes with Mass Effect 3. I don't care if I have to play it in DX8, Ill still be there day 1.
 
Why have some of the big name titles recently stuck with DX9 instead of going with at least DX10? Is it because the current consoles are not able to work with anything higher than DX9?
 
Can only say that I have the game running with max DX11 settings (including high PhysX) on my GTX 580 + GTX 280 @1920x1200 and at its worst times it drops into the high 40s, but remains fluid and otherwise hovers in the 80s and above.

Does all that and looks quite nice doing it. I haven't flipped DX11 on and off to check the IQ differences yet, but interestingly enough hair looks rather good in this game which seems like DX11 territory and it is otherwise by far the best-looking UE3 game I've yet played (PhysX definitely helps that in some areas as now that I have an entire GTX 280 dedicated to that cloth simulation is pretty much completely fluid and the interactive smoke is cool).
 
Why have some of the big name titles recently stuck with DX9 instead of going with at least DX10? Is it because the current consoles are not able to work with anything higher than DX9?
A few reasons. DX9 and DX10+ have core differences in their set-ups. Having "DX10/DX11 mode" is almost a matter of having a second version of the game's graphical core. DX10/11 have a different library of functions from DX9, and are at least as different as Windows XP is to Windows Vista and 7 (recall how Vista/7/8 drivers are pretty interchangeable even if there are kinks here are there, but XP drivers....).

So, since not all cards inherently support DX10/11, if you want to target the broadest possible audience then you'll typically want to support DX9 for those players. But then also supporting DX10/11 requires a significant amount more work on top of the DX9 base. Of course, Battlefield 3 side-stepped this by not supporting DX9, and that's the easiest way to go full-out with DX10/11 and get good results.

The other thing is that DX10/11 are fundamentally different from DX9 in many respects. DX10/11 focus much more on shaders and are much more inherently adaptable. They do less work for you but give you more control over how that work is done. This contrasts to DX9 where it really is more of a proper API. DX9 is actually very limited, inherently, but it has been hacked to hell and back to do what people have needed to make it do. That said, there is a bit of a learning curve involved for your programmers to develop in DX10/11 and it changes your pipeline a bit as well (also, DX10/11 don't include some things- mostly loaders- that have to instead be developed in-house).

For the console bit, the X360 runs on a modified version of DX9 and the PS3 uses its own version of OGL. That said, the techniques leveraged on both more closely mimic PC DX9 than DX10/11 (although it's not unusual to see the X360 flex its weak tessellation muscle from time to time because while many PC graphics cards had the capability for awhile it wasn't standardized while it is standard in an X360), and if you're just trying to straight-port then DX9 is going to be optimal. What we're seeing more of recently, from Deus Ex: HR and Arkham City notably, are developers taking extra time with their PC ports to add the extra DX11 functionality.

TLDR: DX10/11 take a fair bit of extra effort to implement on top of DX9 and as long as DX9 graphics cards remain a significant percentage of the market, DX10/11 are somewhat laborious to support on top of it *or* the developer needs to consider dropping DX9 support and a significant segment of the market. DX10/11 support will continue to rise as DX10/11 graphics card market penetration continues to grow (and with DX11 cards two years old now, we're seeing games like Deus Ex: HR and Arkham City put more emphasis on at least DX11 for the high-end).
 
the company is aware of the problem btw..

Also i saw that running an older version of GFWL fix the problems ? Maybe someone install the one that came with the other Batman game? and test it.. surely test that tonight..

It run great when it's not stuttering (faster than 30 fps) and the Benchmark is borked because of the stuttering. there's way more tesselation inside the game than in the Benchmark too..
 
anybody have screenshots of the DX11 stuff in this game? sounds like it has some pretty tasty graphical features... even if it doesn't run right, I want to know what we have to look forward to when it gets patched up.
 
Of course, Battlefield 3 side-stepped this by not supporting DX9, and that's the easiest way to go full-out with DX10/11 and get good results.

That's one of the few decisions that EA has made that impresses me.
 
Why have some of the big name titles recently stuck with DX9 instead of going with at least DX10? Is it because the current consoles are not able to work with anything higher than DX9?

DX9 works in WinXP whereas you need at least Vista for DX10. I'm sure it has to do with making the title available to the most potential customers possible.
 
anybody have screenshots of the DX11 stuff in this game? sounds like it has some pretty tasty graphical features... even if it doesn't run right, I want to know what we have to look forward to when it gets patched up.

Really cont notice a difference in the actual game(not benchmark) with dx11 on. The only immediate thing I notice is motion blur, which Im not too fond of anyway.

DX11 On:
dx11-1.jpg


DX11 Off:
nodx11-1.jpg


DX11 On:
dx11-2.jpg


DX11 Off:
nodx11-2.jpg


And from the actual benchmark:


Not DX11:
notdx11-3.jpg


Dx11:
dx11-3.jpg


Not DX11:
notdx11-4.jpg


Dx11:
dx11-4.jpg
 
DX9 works in WinXP whereas you need at least Vista for DX10. I'm sure it has to do with making the title available to the most potential customers possible.

It's more like DX9 is fairly well known by almost all developers(since it's the basis of Xbox 360's API) and that means cheaper development due to less time messing with the engine. DICE proved that you can get great sales without supporting XP, and hopefully that translates to other companies.
 
Of course, Battlefield 3 side-stepped this by not supporting DX9, and that's the easiest way to go full-out with DX10/11 and get good results.

That's one of the few decisions that EA has made that impresses me.

Batman AC, unfortunately, looks like it falls under the category of mediocre console port in its current form. The PC version was going to get DX9 one way or another. I had high hopes as Rocksteady did a great job with with the Batman AA port. Hopefully a patch or two will fix this.
 
I picked up the game yesterday and saw the problems. I was looking for the [H] thread last night. Glad to see that it is a known issue.
 
Brent

I hope you wait till dx11 gets fixed before you do a performance review of this game. Take your time, we'll wait for it (cause it will be the best review). One more thing, can we get an 1155 or 2011 test system?
 
Nice to see the wait for these awesome DX11 features was worth it.

Also why no AA did I miss something?
 
Also. DX9 is certainly smoother but the crossfire scaling doesn't seem that great. The GPU usage of each card is only 50-70%. Anyone test SLI?

This is DX11 off, 8x msaa and everything on high at 1920x1200. It still looks better than the Xbox 360 version but the DX11 stuff was what I was looking forward too. The only reason I bought it for a second time.

batmanac201111231733537.jpg


batmanac201111231734039.jpg


batmanac201111231734145.jpg
 
Also why no AA did I miss something?
It supports FXAA- with FXAA High I haven't been able to spot any glaring aliasing, or really any at all. Don't want to take a guess at what gen it is, but it definitely seems to be more in-line with gen 3 rather than the gen 1 FXAA most recent titles have been sporting.
 
It supports FXAA- with FXAA High I haven't been able to spot any glaring aliasing, or really any at all. Don't want to take a guess at what gen it is, but it definitely seems to be more in-line with gen 3 rather than the gen 1 FXAA most recent titles have been sporting.

Sorry. I know it supports AA, I'm using 8x MSAA. I'm just wondering why they didn't use AA in this performance preview.
 
they should have just made a high res texture option instead of fooling with DX11. the game looks fine in DX9 but some of those textures are just too low res. anyway, I will probably be done with the game when or if they ever fix the DX11 issues.
 
I'm kind of glad now my Credit Card didn't pass authentication on Steam for this game, going to wait this out, got bills to take care of bills first.The problems will get fixed. You remember Dead Island with a lot more problems at release than this game, I can't really tell that huge of a difference between Dx11 and Dx9 for this game besides in the benchmark.
 
I can't really tell that huge of a difference between Dx11 and Dx9 for this game besides in the benchmark.

I personally am not going to start playing it until DX11 is fixed but I am sure there are more actual ingame screenshots that could show what DX11 and Tessellation can do such as:
http://syllogizing.com/images/batmanac/notdx11-3.jpg
to
http://syllogizing.com/images/batmanac/dx11-3.jpg

The lion has some differences as well but not anywhere as pronounced.
 
Of course, Battlefield 3 side-stepped this by not supporting DX9, and that's the easiest way to go full-out with DX10/11 and get good results.

That's one of the few decisions that EA has made that impresses me.

you should be giving DICE the credit for that not EA. EA didn't do shit.
 
PC DirectX 11 Issues Please Read

We have received reports of performance issues from players of Batman: Arkham City on PC. After researching the matter, we found that running the game with DX 11 is causing the performance issues. We’re working on a title update to address this matter and expect to make it available in the near future.

In the meantime, a workaround for this issue is to run the game with DX 9 instead of DX 11. Instructions on how to turn off DX 11 are listed below.

We sincerely apologize for any inconvenience with your gameplay experience and thank you all for your patience as we work to resolve this issue.

Instructions for changing DX 11 to DX 9
The Launcher can be accessed on Games for Windows LIVE and Steam to change DX 11 to DX 9 in the Settings menu.
Change both DirectX 11 Features and DirectX 11 Tessellation to OFF.

Games for Windows LIVE
Start > All Programs > Games > Right click on Batman: Arkham City and select Launcher > Settings
1. Open the Start Menu
2. Select All Programs and then the Games folder
3. Right click on Batman: Arkham City and select Launcher
4. Choose Settings then click on the arrow next to DX options to change
Steam:
Launch Steam Client > Library > Right click on Batman: Arkham City > Configure PC Options
1. Open Steam
2. Select Library
3. Right click on Batman: Arkham City and select Configure PC Options
4. Choose Settings then click on the arrow next to DX options to change
 
Thanks for the heads up, do like these prelim tests that come on or very soon after release day, gives me a good idea what to expect performance wise what with it taking valve 3 days to email the game to the steam uk servers. Shame about dx11 but the game still looks pretty fancy in dx9, much better than the onlive demo would have suggested.
 
Just run it under the DX9 renderer and don't look back. As can be seen in comparison screenshots the DX11 renderer hardly improves much.

The PhysX effects in this game are pretty decent. Not on par with Alice: The Madness Returns (Best implementation of physx thus far) but they've ramped it up compared to Batman: AA.
 
I realise that those are the top-two single-GPU cards available on the market at the moment, but would it not make sense to also include the 570 so that we can see how a similarly-priced card compares to the 6970?

Here in Europe at least the price difference between the 6970 and the 580 is a gaping chasm.

I guess time constraints apply also though! Just saying...

Regardless, it definitely seems to be a bug, I am sure it will be ironed out shortly. Does raise the question though of how the hell it got through testing if people are able to reproduce it pretty much universally...
 
I realise that those are the top-two single-GPU cards available on the market at the moment, but would it not make sense to also include the 570 so that we can see how a similarly-priced card compares to the 6970?

Here in Europe at least the price difference between the 6970 and the 580 is a gaping chasm.

I guess time constraints apply also though! Just saying...

Regardless, it definitely seems to be a bug, I am sure it will be ironed out shortly. Does raise the question though of how the hell it got through testing if people are able to reproduce it pretty much universally...

They are going to do more testing when the DX11 version is patched. This is just a 'preview'.
 
nobody seems to notice that physx is not working right in the game either. gpu usage drops down when encountering heavy physx instead of going up.

you can see here without physx on my gpu usage is at almost 100%.






with physx on(normal or high as does not matter) my gpu usage drops to under 50% which makes no sense.

 
Isn't that because physx still uses some cpu to feed the gpu, and then if that bottlenecks it'll pull down the framerate, reducing gpu usage? Also note that gpu usage across both cards is down maybe 50% (30% if sli) despite framerate dropping by almost 80%, so they are doing something on top of just rendering the game slower.
 
Isn't that because physx still uses some cpu to feed the gpu, and then if that bottlenecks it'll pull down the framerate, reducing gpu usage? Also note that gpu usage across both cards is down maybe 50% (30% if sli) despite framerate dropping by almost 80%, so they are doing something on top of just rendering the game slower.
I just checked in Mafia 2 and gpu usage drops in that game too with hardware physx on. oh well maybe thats how it works but it sure seems bassakwards.
 
I get that... just saying that if only including two cards in a preview, using cards on a similar level would be more beneficial to see how differently AMD/Nvidia handle it.
 
Now is when the choice gets hard... I waited for PC because I wanted dx11, but now I have to wait longer... and longer for the bugs to be fixed for optimal gameplay, while console the game is going for $25 black friday deals :/ such a hard decision.
 
Actually in game Tesselation is used a LOT (not in the benchmark), you can see it everwhere on wall, statues, flooring etc. It may be one of the most utilisations i've seen of tesselation in game so far (with Crysis 2 too on the environnement).

I'am pretty sure the game will run nicely, if they fix this thing.. off course.. because when it doesn't CACHE (Stutter) like madness, it actually run great..
 
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