Baldurs Gate 3 - Official Discussion Thread (2019)

Aireoth

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Sorta confirming my suspicions that this isn't a real BG game...

I'm not sure what that means though. All the characters and races exist in the DnD universe, and they can't really do the Bhaal spawn plot line and any tie in to it would fall flat because your character was custom made in those titles. I'm not a fan of deep tie ins, always creates continuity and tonal problems, I prefer skin deep contact with prior installment (ie new star wars trilogy vs Mandalorian).

What is it that you mean? Realtime combat with pause? same locations?
 

Axman

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It makes it sound like they don't just have their priorities in a twist, they have their priorities all the way up the plot of a '90s summer blockbuster about a rogue, rag-tag gang of tornado-hunting meteorologists.

But not like, in a cool way.
 

Derangel

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It makes it sound like they don't just have their priorities in a twist, they have their priorities all the way up the plot about a '90s summer blockbuster about a rogue, rag-tag gang of tornado-hunting meteorologists.

But not like, in a cool way.

The fuck are you talking about? Larian made a fucking joke in their patch notes. They have a sense of humor. Get over it.
 

Andrew_Carr

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So I played it a bunch earlier in the week and I guess I'll give my opinion. Overall I think this game will appeal to DOS2 fans and maybe 5e table top fans, but not people that dislike Divinity games and were looking for the next Baldur's Gate. Unfortunately, despite everyone claiming it's Early Access and therefore everything wrong with it will be fixed over the next year, I think that really only applies to bugs and major balance issues, and that they won't be redesigning it or making major changes to how the game plays or how it's written. That would just be too much rework, and Larian, on a fundamental level just doesn't get it.

Pros:
Storyline - The main quest is a cool premise IMO and the cutscenes that support it are great.
Graphics - Overall graphics are good.
Controls & UI - Not terrible, but not as good as something like NWN. I can see opportunities for improvement here while it's in EA though, and I have low expectations for UIs in modern games.
Performance - Very good performance on my 5700 XT / Ryzen 3600 build.
Character Creation - It's very limited and simplified compared to 3rd edition games, but I actually kind of like that and I think this fits into their goal of drawing in more casual D&D players for WOTC. I'd prefer a more in-depth system but it's not bad.

Cons:
Sadistic DM - Conversations, skillchecks out of combat, etc. all play like Larian is a sadistic DM. I think this is due to their unfamiliarity with making a D&D game and that this will improve somewhat due to Early Access feedback. If not, be prepared for your high intelligence (or w/e) character to act like a complete retard on important skillchecks from time to time.
Combat - Turn based like other divinity games. If I wanted to play a table top simulator I would hop on roll20.net or play a table top game. Some people prefer turn based, I hate it, especially when fights get larger, and unfortunately this was a conscious design decision and I don't seem them offering BG2 style combat ever. Environmental effects are still clown tier Divinity style, and although I think they'll be toned down further, are currently a mess. I do think they've improvement combat compared to DOS2, but I still hate it. Jumping & Pushing are stupid bonus actions and should be removed, but I doubt that will happen since Swen seems to love them.
Buggy - Should be (mostly) fixed during EA
Mood & Atmosphere - Everything from the color palette, to the font, to the way characters behave reminds me of Divinity games more than Baldur's Gate. I see things like the font possibly being fixed, but I doubt the Fort Joy part Troix intro will be changed or anything else that would take major rework.
Characters & Writing - I don't think it lives up, but we only have 1/3rd of the game so it's hard to tell if it'll get better or if there are twists we're not aware of.
Lore - This is probably WOTC's fault because they authorized a terrible set of novellas that the game has to follow, but apparently there are tieflings all over the place now and the random books strewn around just feel like check the box lore fillers. It just feels off.


Overall, it's more of the same from Larian. If you expected a change of tone from the Divinity games I think you'll be disappointed. If you liked the Divinity games and always wanted one with D&D 5e rules, you'll probably like it.
 

Aireoth

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It makes it sound like they don't just have their priorities in a twist, they have their priorities all the way up the plot of a '90s summer blockbuster about a rogue, rag-tag gang of tornado-hunting meteorologists.

But not like, in a cool way.

I still don't understand how it won't be "Baldur's Gate" and out side of some complaints over turn based vs realtime pause, no one seems to be able to put words to it.

Of course its going to have Divinities turn based system, they have a great system and great engine. Maybe some would have been happier if BG had been given to Obsidian's Pillars of Eternity division, but frankly I'm happy its not a microsoft product as a result.
 

UnknownSouljer

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Thanks for the mini review Andrew_Carr as well as inputting acknowledging your own bias'. I'm on the other end of the spectrum where I want full blown, turn based, tactical combat. Fallout hasn't been Fallout since 2. And I'm thankful that Larian is creating CRPG's with turn based combat.
I never got into NWN or BG because of this before and as the reverse of you, now I'm more interested. Especially as I go through and play DOS.

I think that will be the dividing line for players and rightfully so.

EDIT: I also posted the play-through of Quill on one of the previous pages. Just to add again, his play-through just makes me all the more interested in the game. I'm not sure how much of the game will be linear vs open, but even if this game is 100% linear, it looks like the story is very in-depth and thought through. And for me having that strong story with great combat is what I want. Again, like you, acknowledging my bias' - If you want RT combat and open world all the time always (with a much less defined story) then this game might not be for you. I personally hate sandboxes and prefer narrative storytelling so this is checking all my CRPG boxes. I have basically hated all of the titles from Bethesda, considering Skyrim to be the lowest brow CRPG I've ever played (you can do anything, but simultaneously nothing you do has any impact - kill everyone in a city and doesn't really make a difference - the FPS combat is unenjoyable at best and story matters basically not at all). I would say that Bethesda and Larian are basically at opposite corners when it comes to narrative style and combat and I clearly prefer Larian in every way that matters.
 
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Comixbooks

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I expect them to have a Baludurs Gate city which you visit then maybe it will look more like BG then.
 

Axman

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I still don't understand how it won't be "Baldur's Gate" and out side of some complaints over turn based vs realtime pause, no one seems to be able to put words to it.
It's turn-based, I don't know where this "real-time turn-based" thing came from.

If you think having D&D stats and D&D races is what makes it a BG game, I'm guessing you didn't really play the originals?
 

Aireoth

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It's turn-based, I don't know where this "real-time turn-based" thing came from.

If you think having D&D stats and D&D races is what makes it a BG game, I'm guessing you didn't really play the originals?

I beat them multiple times. I don't know what your complaining about or even talking about, maybe you didn't play the originals? Maybe you are thinking the horrid console aRPG games? (I rented that shit once from blockbuster and quickly forgot everything about it)

Also the original series was not true turn based, it was realtime with a timing system for actions and a pause function, . You did not hit end turn for each character, or perform moves in some kind of turn sequence.

The new website is glitching on my phone, but here is the link describing BG's time system. https://baldursgate.fandom.com/wiki/Time_System

I am trying to understand what makes something Baldurs Gate? The Bhaalspawn plotline? the Westheart lands? Amn? What is it you think makes a BG game?

I will say I am not a huge DnD player, I can count on one hand the number of DnD sessions I've had, I played the computer games, Baldur's Gate, Icewind Dale and NWN 1 & 2 where my primaries. I am not steeped in the lore of DnD and frankly my experience with those who are in DnD sessions left me rolling my eyes, rule mongers over flow and progression (or death), which is largely why I gave up playing spending 2 hours sorting out one thing because Joe Joe McHumpty doesn't like that their Blind and Mute lizard monk has trouble doing much outside of combat wasn't my idea of a good time.

*I say all of this, yet no one has been able to express why this isn't a BG game, so I currently chalk it up to the usual whining of 'but its not the flavor I wanted' rather than a legit grievance with the system or story. I have also beaten every Isometric CRPG (except for bug riddled messes that are impossible to complete), as it is my favorite Genre. So I understand the turn based system verses the time based system.
 
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Domingo

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Yeah, Baldur's Gate was never turn-based. It was real time, but you could pause. Actions took time to execute, but unless you were mid-action, you could change your mind. It was technically more lenient than Dark Souls since it's not like you can interrupt an attack or heal in those games. Pausing was borderline necessary for a party of at least 3 people. Otherwise you'd get clobbered just because you don't have time to execute anything. At least without some damn good AI...which barely existed back then.
The new game (and NWN + even Dragon Age) are just more modern/new takes on the same concepts. I don't really see a massive difference beyond the UI. I guess there could be newer D&D rules in play that I'm unaware of, but I see things the same way on the surface.
 

Axman

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I beat them multiple times. I don't know what your complaining about or even talking about
Yeah, Baldur's Gate was never turn-based. It was real time, but you could pause.
That's wrong.

The Infinity Engine BG games are turn-based. You can tell the game to stop after every round in the settings. Even the Neverwinter games are turn-based, even if you can't auto-pause the same way. If you change a character's action mid-turn, it forfeits the turn, and resets for the next turn. That link: https://baldursgate.fandom.com/wiki/Time_System explains how the turns work. In D&D 2.5 and how it's represented in the Infinity Engine; a turn is called a round, and ten rounds are called a turn. Each round has 10 .6-second ticks that are used for attack speed, movement, and spell casting time.

Baldur's Gate, in terms of plot, and how well that will tie into this, I don't know, we don't know. Thematically, it should have something to do with the nature of predetermination, godhood, and accepting or denying fate. Baldur's Gate also did a great job of starting off humble, and over the course of the story, with gains and losses, growing into a different character by the end of the chapters, games, and expansions.

One of the main themes was moral ambiguity. It didn't really matter what you did and playing to the extremes resulted in punishing the player. Not quite as harshly as Torment, but if you were overtly evil the would would try to kill you preemptively, and if you were righteously good, you were forced to make sacrifices, forego wealth or opportunity. Even give up party members.

I don't mind if the gameplay changes too much. If it replicates tabletop gaming more or less, then that's good. But if it gets mired in player romance, morality policing, and so much of the other crap that beats you over the head with out-of-game, real-world contextualization, then screw.
 

Aireoth

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That's wrong.

The Infinity Engine BG games are turn-based. You can tell the game to stop after every round in the settings. Even the Neverwinter games are turn-based, even if you can't auto-pause the same way. If you change a character's action mid-turn, it forfeits the turn, and resets for the next turn. That link: https://baldursgate.fandom.com/wiki/Time_System explains how the turns work. In D&D 2.5 and how it's represented in the Infinity Engine; a turn is called a round, and ten rounds are called a turn. Each round has 10 .6-second ticks that are used for attack speed, movement, and spell casting time.

Baldur's Gate, in terms of plot, and how well that will tie into this, I don't know, we don't know. Thematically, it should have something to do with the nature of predetermination, godhood, and accepting or denying fate. Baldur's Gate also did a great job of starting off humble, and over the course of the story, with gains and losses, growing into a different character by the end of the chapters, games, and expansions.

One of the main themes was moral ambiguity. It didn't really matter what you did and playing to the extremes resulted in punishing the player. Not quite as harshly as Torment, but if you were overtly evil the would would try to kill you preemptively, and if you were righteously good, you were forced to make sacrifices, forego wealth or opportunity. Even give up party members.

I don't mind if the gameplay changes too much. If it replicates tabletop gaming more or less, then that's good. But if it gets mired in player romance, morality policing, and so much of the other crap that beats you over the head with out-of-game, real-world contextualization, then screw.

No it is not wrong and you are incorrect as BG is not turn based, its Real Time Turn Based and there is a huge difference in how that plays compared to a full on turn based game. I know you know the difference and just want to be right, so I'm going to stop and ignore your nonsense on turn based. It is a legitimate complaint for a series fan to make between TB and RTTB, it is just not a complaint I have.

Divinity OS is traditional turn based, you move one character, take all your action points, and move to the next character in initiative order. BG3 will be using this system, which again, is not RTTB.

As for the rest, you really have nothing to go on so I'm going to chalk it up to you don't know if you'll like the game (which is fair and should be the normal stance for anyone before a launch). However, Divinity Original Sin hit all the notes of moral ambiguity, starting humble and growing to god hood, and decisions changing both outcomes and rewards.

There also wasn't much for romance in either DOS game, and morality was a concept you could play with (I don't recall ever being beaten over the head by anything).
 
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infojunkie

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I loved BG but I am not sure if this generation of gamers are gonna be OK pressing space every second and reading combat logs, so I can accept their choice.
 
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I loved BG but I am not sure if this generation of gamers are gonna be OK pressing space every second and reading combat logs, so I can accept their choice.

True, I actually like Larian's other TB games quite a bit but it just seems wrong to me to have BGIII not be RTWP.
 

Axman

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BG is not turn based, its Real Time Turn Based
If you have to use "turn-based" to describe "real-time turn-based," it's turn-based.

Shame they're going to discrete turns instead of simultaneous turns. That's a deal-breaker.
 

Aireoth

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If you have to use "turn-based" to describe "real-time turn-based," it's turn-based.

Shame they're going to discrete turns instead of simultaneous turns. That's a deal-breaker.

See, not the same thing. Case dismissed.
 

Andrew_Carr

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I starting replaying Baldur's Gate after trying this and it really helped me realize what's wrong with Larian's combat system. They're trying to balance BG, DOS, and D&D fans on both console and PC which is a lot of conflicting goals. In Larian's prior DOS games, there weren't really fixed classes and you had a lot of consumeables and barrels to throw around as well. In BG3 you just watch characters miss repeatedly or add stuff like jump/shove/hide as bonus actions and give the player tons of consumables, pissing off D&D and BG fans in the process. Larian's not going to implement RTWP to address the combat issues, and even if they tried they'd probably screw it up. So their other option is to rebalance the game to make the combat more engaging. This will piss off the D&D crowd, won't satisfy by the BG crowd, and probably won't be enough for the DOS crowd. Overall the impression I get from the Larian dev team is that they're not acknowledging the design flaws in the game and they think it just needs a lot of bugfixes, tweaks, and content. That's why I returned it.
 

polonyc2

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Patch 4 for Baldur's Gate 3 will add the Druid class to the game...Druids will get to use over thirty spells and abilities, as well as eight different shapes to shift into (Deep Rothe, Cat, Raven, Dire Wolf, Badger, Spider, Polar Bear, and Aberrant)...

 

Domingo

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Just curious, how "complete" is the game right now? I don't really know how this Early Access stuff works. Is it a finished game that they're still adding to, is it just buggy as hell, or is it episodic?
 

Seelenlos

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Just curious, how "complete" is the game right now? I don't really know how this Early Access stuff works. Is it a finished game that they're still adding to, is it just buggy as hell, or is it episodic?
It's a beta test. Every company runs them a little differently. The early access gets them feedback from fans and helps them find the bugs. Hopefully we get a more polished game on release.
For this one you only have access to Act one out of probably three acts. Things change, new content gets added, things get removed, get fixed and then broken and fixed again, etc.
If you don't enjoy replaying and dealing with bugs avoid early access.
 

you2

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Did they ever fix what was causing the game to crash the system ?
 

Andrew_Carr

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Just curious, how "complete" is the game right now? I don't really know how this Early Access stuff works. Is it a finished game that they're still adding to, is it just buggy as hell, or is it episodic?
I've heard there's been a datamine of Act 1 and about 1/3rd of Act 1 our of three I think is mostly complete. I didn't really run into any gamebreaking bugs, just graphical bugs and balancing issues. I would recommend staying away for now unless you want to be in a paid beta.
 

Aireoth

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Just curious, how "complete" is the game right now? I don't really know how this Early Access stuff works. Is it a finished game that they're still adding to, is it just buggy as hell, or is it episodic?

If they do it like they did divinity original sin 2, act 1 will be all the EA content, and the rest of that game will follow at launch.

It worked for DOS2 but had its draw backs, you can tell the most polished area is act 1, not that the other acts are bad in DOS2 just that the level of polish in act 1 is noticable.
 

Domingo

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If the game isn't complete, I'm not going to touch it. Knowing how I am with DLC's that show up later, I'll end up completing Act 1 and I'll forget everything that happened. As a result, I'll never touch the game again because I don't want to start all over.
 
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Aireoth

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If the game isn't complete, I'm not going to touch it. Knowing how I am with DLC's that show up later, I'll end up completing Act 1 and I'll forget everything that happened. As a result, I'll never touch the game again because I don't want to start all over.
well, yeah, thats basically my issue with EA in a nut shell. If your like me in that regard, take the advice of someone who has bought a lot of EA titles, don't and wait for launch.
 
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