Bad Trade: beheo2019 with RTX 2080TI

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tnt3k

tnt3k

2[H]4U
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Dec 3, 2006
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Recently selling a bunch of graphics card for me and my roomate. Last item on my list was a new, sealed replacement RTX 2080TI i received from NVIDIA since the old board burned out.

11 trades and no problem from this thread. Sold a desktop and a macbook air with many other graphics cards. Received heatware back for most and all are positive:
https://hardforum.com/threads/fs-nest-mini.1993665/

Turn of events:

Sold the RTX 2080ti to beheo2019 for a reduced price of $825 shipped.
He asked for product images and here is what I sent over:
He paid via paypal gift and i shipped next day via USPS w/ insurance and siganture: 9406103699300014971211
Messaged him on the day he said he would receive it and he said it was coming late then this response came:
1586921140649.png


Multiple positive Heatware reviews, shipped two 1080TI's, a whole desktop, a macbook except this last one: https://www.heatware.com/u/66526/to
Buyer's heat: https://www.heatware.com/u/79243/to

Suggestions on how to resolve?

4/14 update:
Individual sent me an email. Thinking of the best response. Can anyone let me know how i can download the hippovideo?
1586897286223.png

1586899330142.png


My best response without blowing up:
1586907647580.png


Additional responses from him:
1586922394333.png


4/15 - beheo edited Heatware feedback. is trying to deal with ebayer.
4/17 - hold on paypal is gone. Buyer made this right.
 
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Wow that is messed up. Did he file a dispute already asking for a refund? Did that guy have heat?
 
beheo2019 Do you have anything to say about this? This looks pretty bad on your part.

Also OP, do you have the package weight? That may help with some things. a 2080ti surely weighs more than 2 hard drives.
 
tnt3k said:
3. Not many people do unboxing videos from the mailing package unless you obviously knew something was up or are trying to stage something. Person on video obviously had 0 reaction to the unboxing too.
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My thoughts exactly when watching this video. Even if it's a big purchase, you already know you're covered by PayPal (even with Paypal Gift) and his lack of reaction seemed super suspicious. Comparing what he got to the pictures you posted, I think a few things could have happened:

1. The Nguyen guy received the RTX card, took it out and replaced it w/the 2 hard drives and repackaged it and subsequently "sold" it to his "brother".
2. Both are in on the scam and setup this charade to file a dispute and get a free card.
3. The pictures you posted vs the box he received clearly shows it's been tampered with.

What I suggest: Pull the money from PP if you haven't already and remove all your bank accounts/cc from the account since PP will pull from your bank if you go negative. If they don't rule in your favor, fuck them and close the account and make another. Anyway, it seems to me the buyer is pulling a scam, it's clear as day.

P.S. NEVER trade with new [H] members.
 
elite.mafia - Yes i checked paypal and it already has a -800 statement balance. I will call paypal tmr to see options there are. Package was shipped USPS flat rate so no package weight but it was signed for.
5150Joker - thanks for the advice. Will chat with paypal tmr. I've had this paypal account for a long time and hundreds of good transactions. There's only been two exceptions and one was an ebay scam and now this. Already pulled money from PP but i dont think I can close the account that like.
 
5150Joker said:
What I suggest: Pull the money from PP if you haven't already and remove all your bank accounts/cc from the account since PP will pull from your bank if you go negative. If they don't rule in your favor, fuck them and close the account and make another. Anyway, it seems to me the buyer is pulling a scam, it's clear as day.
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They'll just ding your credit or mail you a bill. Don't see how that would just make the dispute no longer OP's problem if the guy won.
 
elite.mafia said:
They'll just ding your credit or mail you a bill. Don't see how that would just make the dispute no longer OP's problem if the guy won.
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They can try to send you a bill but you can dispute it and take them to small claims. Has PP ever used a disputed transaction as a way to ding someone's credit though? I hear all they do is just shut your account down and keep asking for payment.
 
5150Joker said:
They can try to send you a bill but you can dispute it and take them to small claims.
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Well I also don't think they can just withdraw from your bank account if your paypal goes into the negative... I'm pretty sure it will just stay negative. They can't just withdraw money without authorization.

edit: from paypal themselves:
https://www.paypal.com/hk/smarthelp...negative-balance-in-my-paypal-account-faq1905
How do I resolve a negative balance in my PayPal account?



Your PayPal account balance could become negative if your transaction is reversed for any reason, such as a chargeback or a lost claim, and there aren’t enough funds in your account to cover for the amount.

In such cases, you must reimburse PayPal for the amount of the reversed transaction, plus any associated fees incurred by PayPal. Please resolve your negative account balance as soon as possible. If the negative balance isn’t resolved within 120 days, your account may be locked and you won’t be able to log in to your PayPal account.

To resolve a negative balance, you can add funds to your account following the steps below:
  1. Go to your Wallet.
  2. Click Transfer funds.
  3. Click Add funds to your balance.
  4. Follow the instructions on page.
If your account has a negative balance, we may set-off the negative balance with any funds you receive into your account or with the funds you have in a different currency balance. Pending withdrawals may also be cancelled on the account.
Click to expand...
 
elite.mafia said:
Well I also don't think they can just withdraw from your bank account if your paypal goes into the negative... I'm pretty sure it will just stay negative. They can't just withdraw money without authorization.
Click to expand...

Could be, from what I understood they had pre-authorization to pull if it's negative when you link the account but it's been a while since I checked. Still better safe than sorry IMO.

Seems you may be right: EDIT: removed my link since you linked directly from PP.
 
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Remember that if the person paid with paypal gift funds, they might have initiated the chargeback based on claiming a fraudulent transaction (entirely on their end... like a hacked account might) and your proof of shipment, tracking number, associated transactional details are going to be entirely new info to paypal.
 
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ChefJoe said:
Remember that if the person paid with paypal gift funds, they might have initiated the chargeback based on claiming a fraudulent transaction (entirely on their end... like a hacked account might) and your proof of shipment, tracking number, associated transactional details are going to be entirely new info to paypal.
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Correct. I didn't see anywhere to dispute or add information from my end so I will provide details when I call paypal tmr. Thanks
 
If you're going to take a video of you opening the package, you need to video every side of the USPS box and the shipping label. That's a complete scam video.
 
FrgMstr said:
Banned. Marked bad trader.

Been here 6 months, less than 100 posts.

Maybe we should make FSFT 500 posts +?
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Yes please. It would also reduce spam from assholes who come here, shit the board up for minimum posts then sell/buy stuff and cause issues or clog the board with FS/FT stuff.

OP you did the right thing. Fuck them and their stupid likely scam, re-shipping isn't your problem.
 
You could but I got a sweet monitor when I had barely enough posts from a user here not all the noobs are hateful. I didn't want to buy a new one because QC was poor but this guy had a working model for a bit less than msrp. here we are 4 years and change later it still works fine, thanks Starrbuck also it's way faster to ship things from Texas to Arkansas than it is from California or anywhere else besides another bordering state that these things generally do not ship from. not to mention the lower distance means less opportunity for hateful shipping company workers to destroy the package.
 
Yeah I have been doing this a while. Is that actually your package? People need to stop and think here. Why in gods name would you be recording yourself opening a package in the first place? I have done many trades and have never needed to be so paranoid as to record myself unboxing a package from a trade... As another user stated, his lack of reaction opening the box is suspicious enough. Do whatever you need to protect yourself and mark that guy as a bad trader and/or ban him.

The taping on the other side of that package definitely looks like it was re-tapped, so theres that.
 
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tnt3k said:
Recently selling a bunch of graphics card for me and my roomate. Last item on my list was a new, sealed replacement RTX 2080TI i received from NVIDIA since the old board burned out.

11 trades and no problem from this thread. Sold a desktop and a macbook air with many other graphics cards. Received heatware back for most and all are positive:
https://hardforum.com/threads/fs-nest-mini.1993665/

Turn of events:

Sold the RTX 2080ti to beheo2019 for a reduced price of $825 shipped.
He asked for product images and here is what I sent over:
He paid via paypal gift and i shipped next day via USPS w/ insurance and siganture: 9406103699300014971211
Messaged him on the day he said he would receive it and he said it was coming late.
Did not get any word from him until today. and he wrote:
Did you send me empty box with 2 hard drives inside the 2080ti box? I received the package but did not open it and sent it straight to my brother. He recorded it and he saw only 2 hard drives inside the box.
https://www.hippovideo.io/video/pla...hv-campaigns&hreferer=private&_=1586832827517
unboxing video. Something is wrong here man.

My response:
A couple of issues i see there.
1. The product box tape is cut open and taped over again. This is not the way it was shipped.
2. Why would you receive it for your brother and ship it back to California? Not to question your brotherhood but your payment last name was Nguyen and the person unboxing is Steven Steinbeck?
3. Not many people do unboxing videos from the mailing package unless you obviously knew something was up or are trying to stage something. Person on video obviously had 0 reaction to the unboxing too.
4. If you did not open it and shipped it to someone else, that secondary transaction is no longer in my control and I am no longer liable.
5. I will dispute with Paypal.

Multiple positive Heatware reviews, shipped two 1080TI's, a whole desktop, a macbook except this last one: https://www.heatware.com/u/66526/to
Buyer's heat: https://www.heatware.com/u/79243/to

Suggestions on how to resolve?
Click to expand...

That sucks that you got robbed. You have evidence let’s hope PayPal does the right thing.

how did I miss a 2080ti for 825 tho
 
Oh this really sucks. WTF I have never did video me opening a box when I trade. One thing I am grateful I have always had positive transactions here on HF. Sorry this happen to you and hope paypal finds in your favor.
 
No way you lose this, OP.

If this dude and his "brother" aren't in it together, it cannot be proven beyond a doubt that this buyer's "brother" did not double-cross his own blood and engineer the felony swap.

If they ARE in it together, it still cannot be reasonably proven that you were any more the "culprit" (ofc, you did not) than either of these two human stains.

Retsam's observation is also on point. Opening the box to $825 worth of suprise harddrives would set 98% of people off. The other 2%, well - not so much, and we know why type of scum they are.
 
atp1916 said:
No way you lose this, OP.

If this dude and his "brother" aren't in it together, it cannot be proven beyond a doubt that this buyer's "brother" did not double-cross his own blood and engineer the felony swap.

If they ARE in it together, it still cannot be reasonably proven that you were any more the "culprit" (ofc, you did not) than either of these two human stains.

Retsam's observation is also on point. Opening the box to $825 worth of suprise harddrives would set 98% of people off. The other 2%, well - not so much, and we know why type of scum they are.
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PayPal doesn't provide friends and family claims, per the tos. That's why it's free. He's screwed likely. Even if you use normal PayPal, they don't help with charge backs generally.

Also, if you do any transaction with a negative balance, they are allowed to add the negative to the charge. If you don't pay a negative balance they usually hit your credit and send to collections.
 
GoldenTiger That's fine. I won't dispute what PP usually does.

In this case, the buyer sent the device to a third party. If the OP can offer proof of it, will PP consider such an action a deviation from SOP and go against their normal processes?

Looking to see how PP handles this one, to be honest.
 
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atp1916 said:
GoldenTiger That's fine. I won't dispute what PP usually does.

In this case, the buyer sent the device to a third party. If the OP can offer proof of it, will PP consider such an action a deviation from SOP and go against their normal processes?

Looking to see how PP handles this one, to be honest.
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I doubt it, unfortunately. Best of luck to op, though :). EDIT: I have heard of them taking the hit sometimes though and just fixing it but it's rare.
 
What a dick move.

Weird that the scammer would be willing to pay via paypal gift. I expect that paypal will refund you, but maybe at their own expense while the buyer disputes it with his credit card?

I wonder if that was a highjacked heat account or the buyer is just turning a new leaf as a scumbag. There was a 5 year gap between any marks and another red flag is that he went from purchasing middle of the road hardware (GTX 970) up to god tier 2080Ti after 5 years of silence..

FrgMstr said:
We have gone to great lengths to provide an open trading community here while offering some sort of protection.... against yourselves.
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It's a stretch but my gut says adding an internal rep system to [H] or way better, requiring 2FA for all forum members who wish to post in fs/ft may help, at least reduce risk of abandoned accounts being accessed and using the stolen credentials to gain trust... Maybe even get some [H] lifers who may be willing to volunteer services as an escrow on very high dollar trades.. I'm sure this has all been mulled over before, but yeah..
 
FrgMstr said:
We have gone to great lengths to provide an open trading community here while offering some sort of protection.... against yourselves.
Click to expand...
One thing that irks me whenever I put up a for sale thread is I almost always get messages from people with brand new accounts with like, 1 or 2 posts. I think restricting users PM status might help somewhat. Obviously not in this case but...

Also I wonder, is it possible to hide the fs/ft user from unregistered users?
 
Best of luck to OP. Hope everything will sort out in your favor.
 
FrgMstr said:
Banned. Marked bad trader.

Been here 6 months, less than 100 posts.

Maybe we should make FSFT 500 posts +?
Click to expand...

I think spamming would be through the roof, but yeah, it's A lot of effort, would weed out some potential scammers.
Also heatware should be mandatory, It's not perfect, but you can add eBay/other marketplaces to prove credibility if you don't have heat feedbacks at all.
And yeah, as elite.mafia said, make FSFT not visible for unregistered users. Won't get their appetite up if they don't know what's selling.

Oh, and under new 500 post rule I won't be able to see FSFT lol.
 
GoldenTiger said:
I doubt it, unfortunately. Best of luck to op, though :). EDIT: I have heard of them taking the hit sometimes though and just fixing it but it's rare.
Click to expand...

I have had to deal with Paypal twice in the past when buyers have accused me of something. Both times I won. Both times it took nearly 6 weeks, as they give the buyer numerous weeks to even reply and then warning weeks when they do not. I provided TONS of evidence, including emails and pictures.

Provide everything you can and I bet they don't even try and fight it. Often times they hope you just give up and chalk it up to a lesson learned. Do not give the buyer that opportunity.
 
Ridiculously high post count requirement seems unfair to me... Something like 100 posts and 1 year to see the forum is more reasonable. There are users that have been here for 5+ years and have less than 500 posts. A user looking for a quick way to scam people is not going to hang around for a year. And then, probably require 2FA enabled to be able to post is FS/FT is a good idea too, like someone said, prevent old abandoned accounts from being abused.
 
FrgMstr said:
Banned. Marked bad trader.

Been here 6 months, less than 100 posts.

Maybe we should make FSFT 500 posts +?
Click to expand...
While I agree it was a bad transaction, I've been on the site since around 2004 and have just hit 400 posts... I mean, seems kind of high # (and arbitrary). I don't feel that's fair to those of us using it responsibly, but understand that these things are frustrating.

To OP: Please contact PP and let us know what happens.

* Edit * Just wanted to point out, my account creation date for the forum was much later than when I actually started reading and viewing the site.
 
Ready4Dis said:
While I agree it was a bad transaction, I've been on the site since around 2004 and have just hit 400 posts... I mean, seems kind of high # (and arbitrary). I don't feel that's fair to those of us using it responsibly, but understand that these things are frustrating.

To OP: Please contact PP and let us know what happens.

* Edit * Just wanted to point out, my account creation date for the forum was much later than when I actually started reading and viewing the site.
Click to expand...

Not to disagree, we I think 500 is too much, but you have nearly 800 posts.
 
elite.mafia said:
One thing that irks me whenever I put up a for sale thread is I almost always get messages from people with brand new accounts with like, 1 or 2 posts. I think restricting users PM status might help somewhat. Obviously not in this case but...

Also I wonder, is it possible to hide the fs/ft user from unregistered users?
Click to expand...
Tetsu said:
I think spamming would be through the roof, but yeah, it's A lot of effort, would weed out some potential scammers.
Also heatware should be mandatory, It's not perfect, but you can add eBay/other marketplaces to prove credibility if you don't have heat feedbacks at all.
And yeah, as elite.mafia said, make FSFT not visible for unregistered users. Won't get their appetite up if they don't know what's selling.

Oh, and under new 500 post rule I won't be able to see FSFT lol.
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auntjemima said:
Hiding the FS/FT forum to members with less than 100 count makes sense.
Click to expand...
Furious_Styles said:
100 to see the forum 250 to participate.
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David-Duc said:
Ridiculously high post count requirement seems unfair to me... Something like 100 posts and 1 year to see the forum is more reasonable. There are users that have been here for 5+ years and have less than 500 posts. A user looking for a quick way to scam people is not going to hang around for a year. And then, probably require 2FA enabled to be able to post is FS/FT is a good idea too, like someone said, prevent old abandoned accounts from being abused.
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I will start a thread where we can discuss this more....
 
I'm sure you guys mean well, but restricting FS section will just slowly kill it. Scams happen everywhere, no market place is immune to them, for this one bad trade there were probably 1000 good ones, I think this is a really trustworthy community overall.
Ask this to yourself would you rather use the FS section or eBay? Restricting traffic to FS section is a bad idea, all you have to do is look at FS sections of other forums that did this, fraction of users remains. If barrier to entry is too high, people will just move on to other platforms, most of which have no requirements at all.

OP, if the scammer is claiming the package was re-mailed, that automatically protects you from claims, but you need to point it out and provide that evidence to PayPal. I'm not sure why he paid gift, but it's possible he is not disputing trough PayPal, but rather his CC. That makes it weird, because technically there is no seller protection, because it was a gift. If you didn't ask for gift payment you need to tell that to PayPal and maybe try to prove it. 800$ is grant theft in a lot of states, you should file with police if you can bother.
 
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