Australian Research Finds That Opening Loot Boxes Is Equivalent to Gambling

[Twisted Kidney]

These companies hire psychologists to make their products as addictive as they can. They're playing dirty and trying to skirt the law to boot, if they play dirty the people get to play dirty. We have a lot of tools at our disposal to protect ourselves and one another from companies setting themselves up to be new age pushers.

The adults in the room seem to not want to accept responsibility!

I agree, and I get that many people believe that companies should never, ever be held responsible for breaking a law. That's just social engineering and corpo-brainwashing though. The solution is that these games should only be available from licensed establishments to adults of the legal gambling age in your jurisdiction. Any company that is caught letting a child gamble should face the same hundreds of thousands of dollars in penalties that casinos do and for every single underage gambler they allow. It's not somebody else's job to keep children out of your casino, the ol' blame his mum and dad line won't work, these games need to be policed like a casino. Companies that fail to meet those standards should lose their permits to operate their online casino and be closed down.

 

[Lith1um]

Bullshit. "Rolling the dice" whether it's in fucking loot box or "crate" is still "rolling the dice" which is gambling on whats in the box. (Forms of RtD go back since man was a caveman, roll the bones anybody?) When you have more than 2 options and no choice on said options or what the out come is, it's gambling. And regardless of how people perceive it, when you trade a "level up" for a "loot box" there is your very definition of gambling. If the loot box just said "weapon X-15" inside than it's trading level for said item not gambling on a "game of chance, whats in the box".

Ever heard the term "Gambling with your life"? Not monetary is it? Games like Dice's new Star Wars Battlefront absolutely were ruined by this bullshit. All Dice had to do was put a nice, new coat of paint on the original BF series and let people shoot and throw grenades at each other without all the customization, loot crates, buying super star crystals or whatever the fuck those were. We just wanted an unlocked, all characters playable from the start Star Wars game. Couldn't do it, had to get greedy. And Dice is just as bad as their EA overlords, they could have had an independent distributor.

That is literally what my post implied, that it is gambling and that the fact that it is gambling would not even be questioned if there wasn't a profit motive.

 

[VMaxx]

These must really piss them off then.
Any arcade game is trading coin for the chance to win a slot to put your name.
Crane games trade coin for a chance to win a toy.
Toy vending machines trade coin for a random toy (wow exactly like loot boxes).
The only difference is because its an online game, common sense flies out of the window.

 

[Lith1um]

These must really piss them off then.
Any arcade game is trading coin for the chance to win a slot to put your name.
Crane games trade coin for a chance to win a toy.
Toy vending machines trade coin for a random toy (wow exactly like loot boxes).
The only difference is because its an online game, common sense flies out of the window.

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Yeah, and what stops online publishers from fucking you specifically based upon your identity, spending habits, or a number of other variables? How do you know if the playing field is level?

For all you know different classes could recove different payoff odds or different odds to get specific covetted items.

 

[AshG]

Try having severe OCD and genetically-based addictive tendencies. I'm not asking the nanny state to step in and save me from the big bad world, but it's hell now with many games because they trigger my condition. I have to walk away from otherwise entertaining content because I don't want to risk burning through part of a paycheck trying for the newest released character or weapon upgrade.

The feeling is hell. It is tactile; it starts as a tingle at the base of my skull and turns into a full-body feeling of my skin crawling until I do something about it. And this is on meds. Thankfully this hell only lasts for a couple hours after I walk away from whatever it is that triggered it.

 

[Armenius]

Developers are already experimenting with ways around this. See the Battlepass in Fortnite and Rocket League. You get to pay for the privilege of earning random crap the more you grind through a "season."

I only care about lootboxes because they tend to ruin otherwise decent games. I don't really care if someone spends $2000 on gambleboxes in a $20 game. I do care when the game is designed around the gambleboxes mostly in the form of "rewarding" people with anything which can affect gameplay.

I don't care how much people spend on a game because I'm not them and they can go to hell for all I care; I do care about the game is affected to promote spending on gambleboxes.

Quoting for truth.

 

[DeathFromBelow]

These must really piss them off then.
...

Do you know anyone who has ruined their life with a debilitating claw crane game addiction? Can you think of any factors that might make those kind of activities different from gambling? Take your time and think about it. Maybe even read the rest of the thread.

 

[lcpiper]

only if you buy the loot boxes. Overwatch is a game with loot boxes but you get them free when you level up, or you can buy them.
I've gotten over 1500 loot boxes in the game and haven't paid for any. the only only money used was to buy the game itself.

And I can walk into a casino and not gamble, or I can lay my money down and roll the bones. Just because you can play the game and not have to buy loot boxes does not mean that buying loot boxes with real money isn't gambling.

I'm not backing the EU on this but my stance doesn't change, not my back yard, not my problem.

 

[lcpiper]

Not necessarily. Since Nevada is a huge gambling state, I like to reference their definition of it.



Loot boxes would fall under "game played with electronic device for any representation of value."

The representation of value does not mean money. If I bet a pink slip against a pink slip (cars), it's still gambling as it has a value. Iirc, this all ties back to sweepstakes court cases and why they always have a free option.

The argument is whether what you obtain/stake (digital goods) has value. The thing is, the game developers usually assign value to it by having an in-game currency that can be purchased with real world currency.

Subtract the real-world currency and it may no longer meet the definition. That of course would defeat the purpose of it and they'd just remove loot boxes altogether.

Actually the key words here are "for any representation of value". I think you must win the argument that by buying loot boxes in the game, you gain something "outside of the game" that would be representative of value. If what you gain, solely exists within the game world, and doesn't reasonably transfer to real world value outside of the game ...... this definition may not apply.

 

[MaZa]

These must really piss them off then.
Any arcade game is trading coin for the chance to win a slot to put your name.
Crane games trade coin for a chance to win a toy.
Toy vending machines trade coin for a random toy (wow exactly like loot boxes).
The only difference is because its an online game, common sense flies out of the window.

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Playing an arcade game is not a game of chance but of skill. You are simply paying to play the game. Try again.

Toy cranes can be classified as gambling. And I am sure they are somewhere. Probably here in Finland because I don't remember seeing one anywhere around here but I have seen a lot of them in ship that goes between Sweden and Finland. Since it travels in no-mans land on sea it can have not only Tax-free shops but also Casino that I think is not owned by Veikkaus/RAY, which is the company that has monopoly on gambling things around here.

No other opinion about toy vending machines other than I have never heard of anyone having gambling problems with them. Unlike with mobile and videogames that have real money lootboxes.

 

[Zepher]

And I can walk into a casino and not gamble, or I can lay my money down and roll the bones. Just because you can play the game and not have to buy loot boxes does not mean that buying loot boxes with real money isn't gambling.

I'm not backing the EU on this but my stance doesn't change, not my back yard, not my problem.

Did you not read what I wrote?

 

[Zepher]

Blizzard sells these little figurines in a sealed opaque plastic bag. They are $5 or 6 each and you don't know which one of the dozen or two figurines you will get when you open it.
You can't feel to see which one it is since they are inside a plastic clam-shell in the little bag so they all feel the same.
This would be considered gambling as well.