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ATI...chases the buck...NOT producing high end cards anymore
- Thread starter Ricko
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TheQuestor
Limp Gawd
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Ricko said:
I guess I was one of the lucky ones who actually GOT a retail [or oem for that matter] X800 XT PE AGP, but like many after a couple of months it went POOF and I had to send it in for replacement, this process took almost a month. BUT I was sent back a new X800 XT PE and it has worked flawlessly since.
My problem is this now, I want to upgrade to PCI-Express but alas, no go until its time to buy ANOTHER $550+ video card. Though I am thinking of Ebay'n this card and getting a new shiny and actually available 850XT thought the PE is so unreasonably priced its almost a joke.
Ricko said:
how is this a change? ati has been the largest laptop graphics provider for as long as i can remember... infact, they've LOST some ground to nvidia since the early geforce era...
ATI's focus has always been on oem's, the retail market was (and always will be) just an afterthought...
If you were a company, what would you rather target to sell your product... walmart, or little specialty shops?
personally, i'm glad they have their priorities straight and are keeping their OEM partners happy... my stocks are going up
Ricko said:
Yeahhh, it's old news. They have been OEM for a long time, since the 1990's too. In fact, they only became noticed when they decided to jump into the high-end competition for fun and released the all new Radeon cards. They became successful so they stayed at it for a while. But their roots has always been OEM and they will stay in the OEM sector because that's where their business/product experience had always been. nVidia is behind on that. So, this doesn't sound so surprising to me. It's actually a smart move on ATI's part because if they lose their OEM side of the business, they will go down under so dreadfully quick. And that is something we don't want to happen, if we want competition anyway.
-J.
Ricko said:
yeah right, that'd be stupid. The low end cards are developed in the high end. The ati 9200? It's based on the 8500 (still love mine), the top end card from a couple years ago. By developing the high end cards today they are able to create the low end better, more efficiently, and cheaper. Back before they got into the high end with the radeons their products were boring crap, not much inovation. They're not getting out of the high end unless they are getting completely out of the game of making interesting graphics products.
MapleSyrupMods
Bring on Titan X Volta
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ati and nvidia should just combine and make a uber card. and then everyone would quit whining(hopefully)
ATI9700Pro said:
I think that would increase the whining. While the card would probably kick ass...the price would be prohibitive. Those who think that $550 is rediculous for a top end card would be completely flabberghasted by the fact that it would be over $700 and possibly/probably higher due to the fact that there's no competition.
I should think that the OEM market will be most lucrative for ATI. While ATI still needs to make high-end cards to compete with NVDA, its focus has been and should be the OEM sector. I believe I read some statistics a while back that stated that the OEM sector was about 80-90% of the graphics card market. Not to mention, most of the games today *cough* not HL2 *cough* don't take full advantage of the high end cards on AGP, much less high end PCI-E cards.
Snobok said:
No kidding! Aside from Battlefield Vietnam, HL 2, Chronicles of Riddick and Doom 3, I haven't come across any games that have warranted the power of the X800XT PE I have. I would have been perfectly happy if I "only" had a radeon 9800 pro for another year or so. The problem right now with PC's isn't the availability of high end cards but rather the fact that we have virtually no good games to take advantage of them! We need a bigger variety of games (e.g. fighting) on the PC rather than 100 fps and rts clones. Once xbox 2/ps3 are available and if they have kb/mouse support I'm just gonna invest my next 4 grand in a nice plasma tv and screw off PC's for gaming altogther.
I've also heard sapphire makes ati boards.
Yeah pc gaming isn't in such a great spot as so many people would rather buy a $300 console. Though I do hate console games I think i might have to by the next round cause consoles get a lot of good games.
Yeah pc gaming isn't in such a great spot as so many people would rather buy a $300 console. Though I do hate console games I think i might have to by the next round cause consoles get a lot of good games.
iirc it's PC Partner out of Hong Kong that is OEM/ODM for Sapphire......or to put it another way Sapphire is a division of PC Partner......as I said in another thread, my 9700pro was fabbed in Canada & I believe most anything newer has been made in China (Hong Kong & Taiwan)...
There was another OEM/ODM involved last year (can't remember the Company); evidentaly ATi wasn't to happy with them and went back to PC Partner.
There was another OEM/ODM involved last year (can't remember the Company); evidentaly ATi wasn't to happy with them and went back to PC Partner.
Jima13 said:iirc it's PC Partner out of Hong Kong that is OEM/ODM for Sapphire......or to put it another way Sapphire is a division of PC Partner......as I said in another thread, my 9700pro was fabbed in Canada & I believe most anything newer has been made in China (Hong Kong & Taiwan)...
GFT. He's right on. I don't know anything about the China part. If you buy a Saphire card you are basicaly getting a BBA card.
Jima13 said:iirc it's PC Partner out of Hong Kong that is OEM/ODM for Sapphire......or to put it another way Sapphire is a division of PC Partner......as I said in another thread, my 9700pro was fabbed in Canada & I believe most anything newer has been made in China (Hong Kong & Taiwan)...
There was another OEM/ODM involved last year (can't remember the Company); evidentaly ATi wasn't to happy with them and went back to PC Partner.
For some reason i don't get what your saying....I think you answered my question but i still don't understand what you are trying to say
PruBowl300
Weaksauce
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I don't understand why everybody is worried. Go buy a "Built by Nvidia" card, oh wait, you can't. Obviously ATI is just trying to gear themselves towards becoming like Nvidia. Yes they are aiming towards chipsets and oems, but so does Nvidia. It's where the money is. They probably put a lot of thought into this decision. I doubt they just decided to do this overnight.
Having the fast flag ship cards has two positives, neither if huge profits (that i'm aware of)
Marketing:
If you have the biggest and best card even if little timmy can plunk down 500 for a new card he might spend 300 for one that is a striped down version. (Think getting a Monte Carlo instead of a Corvet)
Reserch:
Allows them to come out with tomorrows main streem card. 9800 was in the 400's when it first came out. Now litttle Timmy can get it in AIW flavor and still not break the bank. Still the same chip from a year before.
Marketing:
If you have the biggest and best card even if little timmy can plunk down 500 for a new card he might spend 300 for one that is a striped down version. (Think getting a Monte Carlo instead of a Corvet)
Reserch:
Allows them to come out with tomorrows main streem card. 9800 was in the 400's when it first came out. Now litttle Timmy can get it in AIW flavor and still not break the bank. Still the same chip from a year before.
timeless said:For some reason i don't get what your saying....I think you answered my question but i still don't understand what you are trying to say
I give a lot of obtuse answers
I believe over the last 2.5 years or so ATi's BBA have actually been [reboxed, relabeled] Sapphires. Except for maybe the BBA AIW's.....
DukenukemX
Supreme [H]ardness
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Ricko said:
I like your way of thinking.
You got my vote.
wizzackr said:ATI wants OEMs (bread and butter) -> OEMs only want ATI cards as long as their customers do so -> customers (even the ones going for low-/mid-range products) go for whatever has the 'king of the hill"-sticker, the merc-image, the porsche logo on the front-hood - what drives the sales.
hence, it is essential for ATI to have the prestigious top-spot in order to score the OEM deals with dell and whoever else. They may do that on yesterdays lorels to a certain extent, but that will not let them step out of the high-end arena even for a short period. i mean what do you think? whoever is the first to knock on mike dell's door and asks for an OEM contract gets the deal?
Now, if ATI does not cater the retail in the first place that seems more than logical, but why on earth would they not sell massively into retail anymore (= free extra market) if they have no yield problems on future cards - high end cards that they have to develop anyways? If all this conspiracy theory is about the simple yield-problems ATI is having right now i can tell you we've had that before with loads of companies and products: CPU manufacturers, now ATI - just as well as nvidia before. remember the time they were working on xbox and their next-gen PC product (forgot the damn nv'whatever'number)?
...switching to nvidia because they seem more honest to you is certainly a reason i never heared before, though
good logic, but not true in the real world. ati is not the number one oem graphics solution - it's intel, by far. if you're talking about add on cards, that's a different story, but the vast majority of oem machines have integrated video and intel owns that market. intel hasn't made any graphics chipset worth mentioning in a very long time. i guess it could be argued that the halo effect from intel's cpus apply, but i honestly don't think most people know enough about graphics to even look at who makes the chipsets in the oem market. outside of techies, i've never met anyone who knows what a video card is or does
chrisf6969
[H]F Junkie
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BigTaf said:
Yes, it is definitely has the highest profit margin (per unit).
However, OEM (high, middle & low end) sales is where the volume is... so:
100,000 cards @ $20 unit profit > 1,000 cards @ $50 unit
So ATI is putting all of its resources in to keeping their OEM buyers happy.
You don't want to piss off the buyer for a major company like Dell that costs you millions of $ vs. a few hundred [H]ard core enthusiasts being mad at you.
The last 2 posts have verified everything that was previously stated by myself in previous posts on this thread. The thing that is so irksome about ATI is this...they have made several bold face LIES involoving products that they already knew would NEVER be produced by them. The reason....keep the supposed fan base treading water until their next "big" supposed technological breakthrough. They ARE scared that many will fly the coop to NVIDIA. Too late. There fan base MUST be scratching their heads over the incredulous and scandalous unfulfilled promises. Also, what bothers me is all this blind devotion to this company.
Ricko said:
Damn Ricko.. I think you are getting just slightly over-emotional about the situation. Take a step back and take another look:
1. ATI has ALWAYS been focussed on OEM. ALWAYS. Do you understand that? You have ignored anyone who told you that up to this point. What they are doing now is not a new strategy.
2. No company is immune to problems supplying their highest end products in bulk. ATI, Nvidia, Intel, and AMD all have had the same problems in the past, and will again in the future. Im sure it's especially worse when they are under pressure to provide a high end solution to a current contract.
You are jumping to far too many conclusions just because of a supply problem.
DrDeathGNJ
Gawd
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- Nov 25, 2001
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Um I checked on pricewatch for the mentioned ATI cards here and theres a crap load of links to venders who have them and they all seem to be in stock at this very moment! Maybe they are hard to find out in HANDS-ON retail stores but on PRICEWATCH they seem to be readily available!
Besides have we all not learned by now that the video card industry is less then reliable in many areas? I mean really, Nvidia and ATI have both had their ups and downs and screwed the high-end users from time too time with delivery and it will always be that way. Why does everyone continuely get their balls in a bunch year after year? This year its ATI , next year it might be Nvidia! WTF! Who cares! There are more then enough Kick ass cards out there by Both manufactures! I stopped getting upset along time ago because its pointless! The industry will always be that way!
THE END!
Besides have we all not learned by now that the video card industry is less then reliable in many areas? I mean really, Nvidia and ATI have both had their ups and downs and screwed the high-end users from time too time with delivery and it will always be that way. Why does everyone continuely get their balls in a bunch year after year? This year its ATI , next year it might be Nvidia! WTF! Who cares! There are more then enough Kick ass cards out there by Both manufactures! I stopped getting upset along time ago because its pointless! The industry will always be that way!
THE END!
jacuzz1
Supreme [H]ardness
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^eMpTy^ said:
Oh man .............thats great. Best quote i have seen in awhile. Cudos to Empty
I am ROFLMAO
I'm not sure of the exact numbers, but the enthusiast market accounts for a very, very tiny fraction of the whole. Heaven forbid that a company actually focus on markets where they make money. How scandalous!!!
I still think this is all being blown out of proportion, and I'm fairly certain that you'll be seeing high end ATI video cards for many years to come.
I still think this is all being blown out of proportion, and I'm fairly certain that you'll be seeing high end ATI video cards for many years to come.
Freon....I appreciate you pointing out several things. However...
1. I am not emotional about this...I just am sick of the ...lies.
2. I have never had any misconceptions about their involvement with oem contracts.
3. You have lost your focus of the point I was trying to originally make.
You seem to have overlooked or forgotten what I said about the constant lies regarding new high end card lines and then....no cards. Go to the ATI store and try to order the X850XT...there are tons of people that have pre-ordered and then told....no availability. The exact same thing happened last year with the X800XT PE....no cards available. The reason stated in the email that was sent to potential customers was that "our responsability is to first provide to our clients (oem)". Now that I have re-established the original premise for you...I can say this. Why all the false promises? it's easy man: They are trying to get their fanbase to tread water ....instead of switching sides. Any novice could see this.
1. I am not emotional about this...I just am sick of the ...lies.
2. I have never had any misconceptions about their involvement with oem contracts.
3. You have lost your focus of the point I was trying to originally make.
You seem to have overlooked or forgotten what I said about the constant lies regarding new high end card lines and then....no cards. Go to the ATI store and try to order the X850XT...there are tons of people that have pre-ordered and then told....no availability. The exact same thing happened last year with the X800XT PE....no cards available. The reason stated in the email that was sent to potential customers was that "our responsability is to first provide to our clients (oem)". Now that I have re-established the original premise for you...I can say this. Why all the false promises? it's easy man: They are trying to get their fanbase to tread water ....instead of switching sides. Any novice could see this.
Ricko said:
if you are fed up with all the lies get out of the hardware-business altogether. you zoom in onto ATI and make fuss about it as if it was the first company to do paperlaunches. and this because of simple yield problems. i still don't get it...
Ricko said:
however, you somewhat seems to confuse ATI is dropping the BBA line because of yield problems in favour of their 3rd party manufacturers (again - you CAN BUY these cards, as stated before) with ATI dropping the development of high-end cards alltogether.
Ricko said:
i get that, but... SO WHAT? as stated multiple times before: it has happened before with ALL companies that you are currently having inside of your rig right now. each and all of them. no big deal, no conspiracy either. ATI is working just the way they have for the last years, just as everyone else. end of story. heck, you even started this thread at rage3d.com and all - what for?
Ok, it's time to get rid of the tinfoil hats. Perhaps ATI has yield problems or some other supply problem. Perhaps they are getting ready to transition to other vendors to supply their cards a la NVidia. Perhaps a lot of things. There is hardly a conspriacy to get out of the high end market.
I love when Nvidiot biased morons come in spouting this crap
Try finding a PCI-E 6800GT-Ultra at msrp, oh wait, you cant (not easily anyway)
X800XT-PE's not available??? WTF are you talking about?? I can link you to 10 online retailers with it in stock to ship RIGHT NOW.
And the worst part is 99% of you dont call them on this BS. Yes ATI has some problems pumping these cards out at first. But after awhile they start getting them out there, just like they always have. This is nothing new. Anyone that has been in this scene for a bunch of years knows this. I remember when the 9700Pro was impossible to find, and was hundreds over MSRP, Hell I remember people paying $600 for a Voodoo3
Try finding a PCI-E 6800GT-Ultra at msrp, oh wait, you cant (not easily anyway)
X800XT-PE's not available??? WTF are you talking about?? I can link you to 10 online retailers with it in stock to ship RIGHT NOW.
And the worst part is 99% of you dont call them on this BS. Yes ATI has some problems pumping these cards out at first. But after awhile they start getting them out there, just like they always have. This is nothing new. Anyone that has been in this scene for a bunch of years knows this. I remember when the 9700Pro was impossible to find, and was hundreds over MSRP, Hell I remember people paying $600 for a Voodoo3
Ricko said:
I think i get what you are yapping about now.
you are afraid that ATi will lose there business to manufactures like powercolor, asus, msi sapphire. I doubt that ati would lose such big amounts of money selling there gpu's to those manufactures instead of selling there own BBA cards to customers. Im sure they will have the money to keep up with the R&D still. So you dont have to worry, you will still be able to buy your ATI cards, you just have to buy it from another card builder then ATI
If you can't accept the idea of buying the cards from someone else beside the actual gpu manufacturer, get over to www.nvidia.com, im sure you can buy a built by nvidia card from them.
ThomasE66 said:
They started this transition almost 4 years ago> http://www.macworld.com/news/2001/05/30/ati/
Ricko is just being anal about the situation...
TheGameguru
[H]ard|Gawd
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I cant believe this thread is still going on..
what happens when ATI stops making cards alltogether and goes 100% the Nvidia route..
Are peoples heads gonna explode then?
WTF is the big deal??
what happens when ATI stops making cards alltogether and goes 100% the Nvidia route..
Are peoples heads gonna explode then?
WTF is the big deal??
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