Athlon XP Barton for retro gaming pc?

dany man

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Sorry for digging out the crusty dusty long dead hardware and asking about it.

But I have this nice recapped KG7-RAID that with a bios update/mod can run Barton's but t at 166fsb.
I been tossing around the idea of putting together a gaming pc around it, but I'm thinking Id be better with something else given the lower FSB and agp 4x vs 8x of a newer board.

What would say a Barton running at 2ghz be like compared to a Intel CPU? The only Athlon XP's I dealt with are the older early ones.

The most hardware intensive game I would play on the system would be silent hill 3 or doom3. But If I could pull of plying warband on a system from around the same time Id like that too.
 
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two trains of thought on projects like this:

1. it's just for fun. So who cares about performance...it's going to be extremely difficult to get any kind of numbers that aren't from circa the time it was actually being used on these things anyway.
2. You're trying to be on the cheap side and using what you have.

if #2, I recommend not doing it. Instead, use hardware that's from this decade. You can build a way more than adequate retro gaming machine for less than 500 for the entire thing using all new parts and fit it in a tiny little pc case you can hide under or around your tv. If you're willing to go used parts, you can drop that price considerably.

This way memory and software can all be current, you can utilize it for other things as well instead of just retro gaming if you want in the future and it will be conventionally fast ....not just fast for software that was written 15 years ago.
I recommend a 2200g + mini itx mb (with wifi) + 2 4GB ddr4 sticks + sata 3 ssd (512GB would be plenty) (all of that new would be about 200-220 bucks )... then you just scrounge up the psu, case, keyboard, mouse, hdmi cable and you're done. Hook it to the tv and go to town.
 

SmokeRngs

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I never used anything but nforce2 chipsets with my Barton. I first had an Asus A7N8X-Deluxe with a mobile 2400+ Barton I could get to 2.3Ghz on. I swapped that motherboard for a DFI Lanparty nForce2 Ultra B later on and managed a 2.4Ghz overclock out it, at least for as long as the motherboard lived. If memory serves the default clockspeed on the mobile Barton 2400+ was 1.83Ghz or something close to that so either way I got a decent overclock out of the CPU.

I never once used an AMD chipset board for any Socket A system. If memory serves they tended to be weak on features and didn't work that well with regards to overclocking compared to VIA or nForce2 chipsets. Hell, I think even the SIS 735 chipset did a better job than the AMD chipsets. I was quite surprised with what I could do with a Duron on the old ECS K7S5A board. Overall, the nForce2 chipset boards were what you wanted for performance and overclocking the Barton CPUs.

Performance with the Barton should be just fine for most software of the time. In general the PR ratings on the AMD CPUs weren't all that far off of the Pentium 4 for a lot of software especially if the software didn't need high memory bandwidth as the P4 excelled there.
 

mvmiller12

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I never used anything but nforce2 chipsets with my Barton. I first had an Asus A7N8X-Deluxe with a mobile 2400+ Barton I could get to 2.3Ghz on. I swapped that motherboard for a DFI Lanparty nForce2 Ultra B later on and managed a 2.4Ghz overclock out it, at least for as long as the motherboard lived. If memory serves the default clockspeed on the mobile Barton 2400+ was 1.83Ghz or something close to that so either way I got a decent overclock out of the CPU.

I never once used an AMD chipset board for any Socket A system. If memory serves they tended to be weak on features and didn't work that well with regards to overclocking compared to VIA or nForce2 chipsets. Hell, I think even the SIS 735 chipset did a better job than the AMD chipsets. I was quite surprised with what I could do with a Duron on the old ECS K7S5A board. Overall, the nForce2 chipset boards were what you wanted for performance and overclocking the Barton CPUs.

Performance with the Barton should be just fine for most software of the time. In general the PR ratings on the AMD CPUs weren't all that far off of the Pentium 4 for a lot of software especially if the software didn't need high memory bandwidth as the P4 excelled there.

And nForce 2 got me started on my Dolby Digital Live addiction...
 
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I LOVE old hardware. I can't seem to ever toss it.

That being said, it is far easier to use GoG versions of games, updated for modern hardware and / or DOS box than use original hardware. One specific build of old hardware is only optimized for a specific period of games.

But old games look terrible on LCD. So newish PC + CRT (up to GTX 900 series can use DVI to VGA adaptors)
 

dany man

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Honestly I have a lot of games that don't have updats to run on newer system and I'm not rebuying games just for an update
 
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Honestly I have a lot of games that don't have updats to run on newer system and I'm not rebuying games just for an update

Fair enough. You could just underclock a more recent computer as an option too, if you have one.
 

primetime

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I have zero interest in retro rigs personally. But its extremely rare i find a game that cant be played on win 10 and new hardware. (sure sometimes it takes a few google searches for help)
 

dany man

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I have zero interest in retro rigs personally. But its extremely rare i find a game that cant be played on win 10 and new hardware. (sure sometimes it takes a few google searches for help)
Your lucky. I have well over ten. Most are very early 3d games locked to older APIs or OSs. Take MW2. Sure you can get it to run on a new system.
But have fun with glitches. Resident evil 1/2? Sure both will work, in software rendering mode. They are games the are locked to old, very old video cards. And don't think a glide emulator will work just because it has a voodoo mode. It's not a glide game.
A new beginning? Sure, if you don't mind buying a new copy of the game and don't mind software rendering or glitchy DX mode.
Oh and what about games that use midis for music? Sure your have music. But with MS's subpar software midi emulator. And let's not forget the slew of early windows gmaes that need a old sounb blaster. Oh and the dreaded 16bit installers. I ran into a ton of games I had to install on a older system just to move the files onto a 64bit system to run.
 

hititnquitit

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Do it up man. You may as well use the mb you have now. At least until you know if its any good. Do you have any memory yet? What gpu are you planning on running on it?
 

mvmiller12

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Your lucky. I have well over ten. Most are very early 3d games locked to older APIs or OSs. Take MW2. Sure you can get it to run on a new system.
But have fun with glitches. Resident evil 1/2? Sure both will work, in software rendering mode. They are games the are locked to old, very old video cards. And don't think a glide emulator will work just because it has a voodoo mode. It's not a glide game.
A new beginning? Sure, if you don't mind buying a new copy of the game and don't mind software rendering or glitchy DX mode.
Oh and what about games that use midis for music? Sure your have music. But with MS's subpar software midi emulator. And let's not forget the slew of early windows gmaes that need a old sounb blaster. Oh and the dreaded 16bit installers. I ran into a ton of games I had to install on a older system just to move the files onto a 64bit system to run.

I have a 486 system I keep around for truly old stuff. It has a Gravis Ultrasound, a Soundblaster 64 Gold, and an MPU-401 fully compatible (including intelligent mode) card that is connected to a Roland MT-32 (rev1) and a Roland SoundCanvas SC55mkII. The Roland modules are shared with my main rig using a MIDI Merge box and a Roland UM-1 Mk II USB-to-MIDI adapter. I have a hack called Coolsoft MIDIMapper that adds a MIDIMapper back into Windows (Microsoft removed theirs with Windows 8) which allows you to change the default MIDI output device to something that ISN'T the crap software synth that is built-in to Windows. This also means that older MIDI software (32-bit, at least) will work with Windows 10. DOSBox and SCUMMVM can both be configured to work with the MIDI modules as well.
 

sirmonkey1985

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I LOVE old hardware. I can't seem to ever toss it.

That being said, it is far easier to use GoG versions of games, updated for modern hardware and / or DOS box than use original hardware. One specific build of old hardware is only optimized for a specific period of games.

But old games look terrible on LCD. So newish PC + CRT (up to GTX 900 series can use DVI to VGA adaptors)


same i still have tons of old hardware in boxes.. athlon 1700+(can't remember what board it's still mounted too), athlon 64 3000+ clawhammer with a DF LPI UT NF250Gb motherboard, athlon 64 x2 6400+ with an m2n sli deluxe, and assortment of other random old gpu's. doubt i'll ever resurrect them but can't bring myself to get rid of them either.. wouldn't be surprised if my old P2 300 and Pentium 166 is some where in one of those boxes as well. even have my first laptop i got, old ass compaq with an athlon XP-M 2400+ and the damn thing still works.. they definitely don't build laptops like they use to.
 

SvenBent

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I LOVE old hardware. I can't seem to ever toss it.

That being said, it is far easier to use GoG versions of games, updated for modern hardware and / or DOS box than use original hardware. One specific build of old hardware is only optimized for a specific period of games.

But old games look terrible on LCD. So newish PC + CRT (up to GTX 900 series can use DVI to VGA adaptors)

I played te old master of orion for dos this year in Dosbox
game still fucking rocks.

but now i goet endless space wcih is pretty close.
still missing some of the uniqiregamepaly mechanics. Nothing came close to the original Moo in uniqire game mechanics
 

B770

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i had a Athlon XP1800 mobile that was an insane overclocker, wish the new stuff would clock proportionally the same.
 

deton8

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Is it really that hard to get retro games running on modern HW? It seems like you'd be way better off even just running Windows 98 in a VM on a modern ITX setup than physically recreating a Barton/NF2 system.

Note: I have not tried this so my ignorance is probably glaring
 

dany man

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Is it really that hard to get retro games running on modern HW? It seems like you'd be way better off even just running Windows 98 in a VM on a modern ITX setup than physically recreating a Barton/NF2 system.

Note: I have not tried this so my ignorance is probably glaring
Is not always the OS, Its the hardware. A VM does not emulate older hardware that has, S3D, ati's CIF, matxor's MSI, or many other of the other APIs older games use.Then you have the number of games like RE1 and 2 that are locked to a few older GPUs despite being a DX game.
Now PCemu does emulate alot of older hardware, but its buggy and does not support faster CPUs systems and voodoo2 emulation is buggy.
 

Susquehannock

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Love playing with vintage hardware (pun intended). Have an Abit KG7-raid myself. Bought new back in the day. Well as a couple Abit KR7A, and several NF2 boards. My humble opinion experimenting with several Athlons and doing comparisons is don't bother with a Barton unless your heart is set on it, or price is about same. Performance gain of the larger cache over a comparable speed T-bred is minimal - well within possible margin for error. As always, YMMV.

[edit]
While it's true many older games can be run on GoG or comparability mode in newer OS, if you're into nostalgia there is nothing like the feeling running a 3dfx card in a period system. Especialy if you have a CRT monitor. My very first one, a 21" Dell trinitron, still games on the desk in my spare bedroom.
 
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dany man

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Love playing with vintage hardware (pun intended). Have an Abit KG7-raid myself. Bought new back in the day. Well as a couple Abit KR7A, and several NF2 boards. My humble opinion experimenting with several Athlons and doing comparisons is don't bother with a Barton unless your heart is set on it, or price is about same. Performance gain of the larger cache over a comparable speed T-bred is minimal - well within possible margin for error. As always, YMMV.

[edit]
While it's true many older games can be run on GoG or comparability mode in newer OS, if you're into nostalgia there is nothing like the feeling running a 3dfx card in a period system. Especialy if you have a CRT monitor. My very first one, a 21" Dell trinitron, still games on the desk in my spare bedroom.
I would have thought the added cache would help alot, kinda like the piii-S CPUs.
 

kamikazi

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same i still have tons of old hardware in boxes.. athlon 1700+(can't remember what board it's still mounted too), athlon 64 3000+ clawhammer with a DF LPI UT NF250Gb motherboard, athlon 64 x2 6400+ with an m2n sli deluxe, and assortment of other random old gpu's. doubt i'll ever resurrect them but can't bring myself to get rid of them either.. wouldn't be surprised if my old P2 300 and Pentium 166 is some where in one of those boxes as well. even have my first laptop i got, old ass compaq with an athlon XP-M 2400+ and the damn thing still works.. they definitely don't build laptops like they use to.

I remember buying a 2400+ mobile and an Abit NF-7S. I was going to overclock the crap out of it. However, that was right after the Athlon XP was end of life and common sense got the better of me. I sold it on ebay for what I paid for it.

The weirdest thing, someone was trying to track down the buyer and wanted me to verify the shipping address. They said something about back child support I think. I told them to have the cops ask me and I never heard another word.
 

Susquehannock

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I would have thought the added cache would help alot, kinda like the piii-S CPUs.
Most of my screen shots from back then were lost due to my stupidity storing them on cheap optical media. But I do remember it was very application dependent. More advantage in number crunching software than games. Here is a page with many comparisons you may like. And a couple graphics benches from it. The two 2800s were pretty close as you can see. Nothing that would be perceived with the naked eye while gaming. Also shows some P4.

biz-winstone.gif


3dmark.gif


ut-botmatch.gif


The t-bred pulls ahead in some tests.

lame.gif
 
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RamonGTP

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I miss my 486/66, it gave me some of the most fun, headaches and challenges one could ask for. While the hardware we use today is so much better, I miss those early days, it was like the old west of computers.

I get acid reflux thinking about those days... IRQ conflicts, jumpers, figuring out how the fuck to free up another 50kb of "conventional memory" by editing my autoexec.bat and config.sys files so a game could actually load even though I had plenty of "extended/expanded" memory available. No freaking thanks!
 
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I have two currently working Athlon XP systems that are up and running. A 2600+ T-Bred and a 2500+ Barton at 3200XP speeds. Both use an Asus Nforce 2 board. I recommend finding the A7N8X Deluxe. They work well and you don't really need a sound card with them. In fact, the Nforce 2 sound subsystem was basically the same as the original Xbox.

I just upgraded my P166MMX to a P200MMX. I bought a 233MMX but the cursed jumpers don't have a setting for it. Thanks NEC! It's a good thing I like the weirdness of your computer. Riser cards EVERYWHERE!

Upgraded from 16MB of EDO to 128MB of EDO. Next I need to get my Voodoo 2 running with Windows 95 and then see how bad the AWE64 Gold is going to be to get running.... I do this to play Tie Fighter....WORTH IT!
 

Centauri

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I've got a Barton rig I built this year around an HP board with an XP 3200+/400FSB, 2GBs of RAM, a 256GB SSD on a PCI SATA card, a SoundBlaster and a 256MB 9800 XT.

It's a hoot. And I'm surprised to see how well it handles Far Cry.
 

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dany man

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Upgraded from 16MB of EDO to 128MB of EDO. Next I need to get my Voodoo 2 running with Windows 95 and then see how bad the AWE64 Gold is going to be to get running.... I do this to play Tie Fighter....WORTH IT!
Careful maxing out the ram. Not all socket 7 boards can cashe the ram and you end up slowing the system done.
 

funkydmunky

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I played te old master of orion for dos this year in Dosbox
game still fucking rocks.

but now i goet endless space wcih is pretty close.
still missing some of the uniqiregamepaly mechanics. Nothing came close to the original Moo in uniqire game mechanics
Ya that game is tops for many. I had a friend try to get me into it long ago. I tried it out as was like, hell no! I have a life! LOL. Well I used to back then :)
 

Zepher

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My retro machine is an old Phenom 9950 with I think an MSI board and a GTX285 with Windows XP. I have no real desire to go to an earlier Windows OS.
the main purpose of the machine is to run a few older devices, a Kodak Dye Sub Printer and Matrox and Pinnacle capture devices.

IMG_3305.JPG IMG_3308.JPG

IMG_3479.JPG IMG_2408.JPG IMG_2426.JPG
 
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Deleted member 134608

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I played te old master of orion for dos this year in Dosbox
game still fucking rocks.

but now i goet endless space wcih is pretty close.
still missing some of the uniqiregamepaly mechanics. Nothing came close to the original Moo in uniqire game mechanics

I know the feeling. I played through XCom Apocalypse not too long ago again. Still awesome after all these years
 

killroy67

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I get acid reflux thinking about those days... IRQ conflicts, jumpers, figuring out how the fuck to free up another 50kb of "conventional memory" by editing my autoexec.bat and config.sys files so a game could actually load even though I had plenty of "extended/expanded" memory available. No freaking thanks!

I never really had too many issues, most of those days were a positive experience for me. Sorry to hear it was such a bad time for you.
 

RamonGTP

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I never really had too many issues, most of those days were a positive experience for me. Sorry to hear it was such a bad time for you.

Don’t get me wrong, I learned a lot but I’m glad those days are in the past.

That said, I am curious... Where did the headaches and challenges come from if you didn’t have issues?
 

killroy67

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Don’t get me wrong, I learned a lot but I’m glad those days are in the past.

That said, I am curious... Where did the headaches and challenges come from if you didn’t have issues?

I never said I didn’t have issues, I said I didn’t have to many of them, and for the most part I look fondly upon those early days, I would even love to relive them.
 

ccityinstaller

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I get acid reflux thinking about those days... IRQ conflicts, jumpers, figuring out how the fuck to free up another 50kb of "conventional memory" by editing my autoexec.bat and config.sys files so a game could actually load even though I had plenty of "extended/expanded" memory available. No freaking thanks!


Man I spent roughly 20hrs tweaking AutoExex.bat trying to get my brand new copy of Janes ATF working with my MS Sidewinder 3DPro joystick. Never again.
 

TMCM

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I get acid reflux thinking about those days... IRQ conflicts, jumpers, figuring out how the fuck to free up another 50kb of "conventional memory" by editing my autoexec.bat and config.sys files so a game could actually load even though I had plenty of "extended/expanded" memory available. No freaking thanks!


640k is more than enough for anyone ;D
 

elm669

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This reminds me of my old AXP 2400+ mobile rig I built in highschool, was just barely fast enough to play doom3 with a heavy overclock on cpu and gpu with the shitty FX5700le. I built it in a Thermaltake Xaser III which I got on sale from frys. I had a Zalman CNPS-7700-CU precariously strapped on top.. Had some pretty hair raising moments with that big chunk of copper and the bare barton die of the AXP. I used that rig from October 2004 all the way up until June, 2007. The motherboard finally quit on me around 2015
1-31-05 @ 313am.jpg
 

UnknownSouljer

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For me, it would be hard to not build what I always wanted to build when going down a path like this.

I'd likely want to build a dual 1GHz Coppermine P3 build with an Abit VP6... but that would cost a lot of change. A lot of advantages though, multitasking would be a lot better than any "single core". And those machines cranked in their day.
Pair it with an AGP 6800GT (or Ultra) and a Soundblaster Live and call it a day.

That's basically the hardware at the time I always wanted but could never afford. We all have our different memories in our dreams though.
 

bucks2145

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i had a Athlon XP1800 mobile that was an insane overclocker, wish the new stuff would clock proportionally the same.

I remember my AMD 1700+ and my Epox 8rda running at I 2.4ghz 24/7 like yesterday. Such bang for your buck back then...

That said....For this topic, I would just spend a little money one newer (used) hardware to alleviate all the inevitable headaches for today.
 
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