AT&T: We've Shelved Ideas Thanks To Net Neutrality Rules

[HardOCP News]

AT&T Senior Vice President Bob Quinn, speaking at the Phoenix Center’s annual symposium, says his company has had to shelve ideas thanks to net neutrality rules. While that may be true, no one said they were GOOD ideas.

“Since the Open Internet order came out we've had weekly calls with the business units and literally 15 lawyers who are all trying to figure out whether that stuff we've invested in ... would be a violation of the order," he said. "We've had to shelve a bunch of stuff because we've got to wait and see.”

 

[Quix]

They're had to shelve the idea of charging you a 50% surcharge on all packets sent to Netflix and giving you free access to AT&T-endorsed services without that surcharge and other similarly scams.

 

[Old_Way]

I read "shelve ideas" as ideas that make them more money for providing crappier service.

 

[Gman1979]

AT&T have also been screwing with their traffic management after the neutrality rulings. IF I make an encrypted connection I get my full speed and 0% packet loss. Any unencrypted connections I make incur 50%+ packet loss starting exactly 15 seconds after the connect starts transferring data, with the problem hop being an AT&T ip address one hop out from my router. When I call to complain they just keep trying to replace my gateway even though replacing it four times hasn't fixed the issue yet lol

 

[Deleted member 93354]

AT&T have also been screwing with their traffic management after the neutrality rulings. IF I make an encrypted connection I get my full speed and 0% packet loss. Any unencrypted connections I make incur 50%+ packet loss starting exactly 15 seconds after the connect starts transferring data, with the problem hop being an AT&T ip address one hop out from my router. When I call to complain they just keep trying to replace my gateway even though replacing it four times hasn't fixed the issue yet lol

That makes no sense. Are far as encrypted vs non encrypted traffic goes the tcpip data packets look exactly the same. Sites just handshake befirehand to say...im going to encrypt and this is the key.

Are you sure you are testing the same sites with http and https?

It is also possible your browser might be redirecting all non encrypted queries to some spyware site. Test a clean windows or linux distro on a new machine for similar problems

 

[SvenBent]

Comming from AT&T, that sounds like net neutrality worked then

 

[eldertru]

I have the same issue. I have to use Private Internet Access to get Facebook and several other websites working fine - otherwise it loads really slow - and I have Gigapower.

Once I'm on VPN, it loads lightning fast.

 

[Gman1979]

That makes no sense. Are far as encrypted vs non encrypted traffic goes the tcpip data packets look exactly the same. Sites just handshake befirehand to say...im going to encrypt and this is the key.

Are you sure you are testing the same sites with http and https?

It is also possible your browser might be redirecting all non encrypted queries to some spyware site. Test a clean windows or linux distro on a new machine for similar problems

If they are doing packet inspection, it definitely does make a difference. The problem happens on multiple systems I have connected to AT&T through our home service. OSX, IOS, Android, Linux and Windows devices all show the same behavior. Starting at 15 seconds after an unencrypted connection is made, they all start experiencing major packet loss. Switch to the same site/server with an SSL connection and the problem never pops up. It's most evident on streaming sites. The problem does not manifest itself when connecting to any AT&T's own sites or services regardless of the connection protocol.

This issue also affects my AT&T wireless service. This service isn't connected to the home service at all yet the same IP address starts dropping packets after 25 seconds or so when trying to stream anything to my iphone or Android tablet (both when running on 4G and when running on wifi at home.

I haven't had to actually pay for the past six months of home service due to them repeatedly crediting our account over the problem instead of just fixing it. It's pretty damn ridiculous actually but our only other option is Comcast, and when we tried them out they failed to show up to do the install for about 3 weeks before we canceled. They still tried to bill us for a month of service we never got to use lol.

 

[Sovereign]

I have the same issue. I have to use Private Internet Access to get Facebook and several other websites working fine - otherwise it loads really slow - and I have Gigapower.

Once I'm on VPN, it loads lightning fast.

I recall reading one reason VPNs may appear to work better has less to do with encryption and more is "May use different pathways to the same destination." Not sure how true that is.

As for the thrust of the article, yeah, they've "shelved" monopolistic, anti-market practices. If there can't be competition (let's be honest, Google Fiber needs to be WAY bigger to bring meaningful competition to most markets) they should and will be treated like the monopolistic utility they are.

 

[Gman1979]

I have the same issue. I have to use Private Internet Access to get Facebook and several other websites working fine - otherwise it loads really slow - and I have Gigapower.

Once I'm on VPN, it loads lightning fast.

This is exactly what was going on for me. My VPN connections were flying right along no matter what site or service I was connecting to. When the VPN wasn't connected, sites would start loading very slowly or not finish loading at all.


And I'd like to mention that when I call AT&T to complain, once I get past the CSRs and actually talk to a tech, they actively try to avoid discussing the issue when I mention it directly. The normal experience I've gotten is the tech immediately tries to push me to a manager as soon asd I mention traffic shaping or packet loss. The manager then pushes me off on someone in customer retention who tries to solve everything with yet another billing credit.

 

[sfsuphysics]

They're had to shelve the idea of charging you a 50% surcharge on all packets sent to Netflix and giving you free access to AT&T-endorsed services without that surcharge and other similarly scams.

You sir win the internet for today... it's just too bad that it will cost you extra to use that internet unless you are an affiliate of AT&T

 

[TwistedAegis]

AT&T mad that the other kids won't allow their superhero to have all the powers in their make-believe game, takes ball and goes home.

News at 11.

 

[amddragonpc]

AT&T will just pass the cost of "shelving those ideas" onto the consumer.

 

[TechLarry]

Pssst. AT&T...

WAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHH

 

[Deleted member 93354]

AT&T will just pass the cost of "shelving those ideas" onto the consumer.

You act like they weren't going to in the first place. After all they have share holders to make happy.

 

[Lith1um]

Dear AT&T,

No Fucks Given.

Sincerely,
The American Consumer

 

[Deleted member 93354]

If they are doing packet inspection, it definitely does make a difference. The problem happens on multiple systems I have connected to AT&T through our home service. OSX, IOS, Android, Linux and Windows devices all show the same behavior. Starting at 15 seconds after an unencrypted connection is made, they all start experiencing major packet loss. Switch to the same site/server with an SSL connection and the problem never pops up. It's most evident on streaming sites. The problem does not manifest itself when connecting to any AT&T's own sites or services regardless of the connection protocol.

Have you run a packet trace test between encrypted and non encrypted to see if the hops are the same?

 

[Lith1um]

You act like they weren't going to in the first place. After all they have share holders to make happy.

Pleasing shareholders is just a façade in the United States.

It's all about the CEO, upper management, and directors, lining their own pockets while selling the shareholders an illusion. All the CEO really wants to do is placate shareholders while maintaining his own 500x compensation ratio.

This Is The Income Inequality Video CEOs Don’t Want Americans To See,
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4_ymNmttW34

 

[TheCAD]

Recently I noticed my data usage how gone up a ton despite me not really doing anything different.

Checked my usage and its was the NFL app. Normally I stream a ton of csgo on twich but had been watching NFL instead. Turns out the NFL app has no quality settings and uses a ton of data.

I think verizon is pushing 1080p on this on purpose or something.

 

[pxc]

What part of NN blocks rate increases for worse service? AT&T seems to be doing fine.

 

[Lith1um]

I randomly picked the first link my search revealed,

CEO vs. worker pay: Walmart, McDonald’s, and eight other firms with biggest gaps


10. AT&T

CEO: Randall Stephenson

Average hourly worker wage: $13.28

CEO’s hourly compensation: $7,412 (558 times the wage of an average worker)

Overtime required to equal an hour of CEO pay: 1.45 months

Source: http://www.csmonitor.com/Business/2...-and-eight-other-firms-with-biggest-gaps/AT-T

 

[Deleted member 126051]

Oh boo hoo!

Maybe now they can stop wasting money on pilot programs to sell you 50 year old phone lines that MAYBE give you 384K down and 28K up, then cut your speed in half after the first month and spend it on something like IMPROVING THEIR FUCKING NETWORK!

 

[OFaceSIG]

I used to work in sales management for BellSouth which was absorbed by ATT. These guys are asshates. If they want net neautrality dismantled that's all the more reason to keep it in place. If it bugs them, EFF it, keep it.

 

[Gman1979]

Have you run a packet trace test between encrypted and non encrypted to see if the hops are the same?

Indeed I have. It's how I found out the issue was happening in the first place. I had some lag spike issues with a certain game. I started trying to get as much info as I could together to submit to the game's support staff regarding the issue. I get a 22ms avg response time from the problem IP with packet loss of roughly 53% as of right now as I watch it.

If I turn on the VPN, it gets routed through the same IP but no packet loss.

 

[Zarathustra[H]]

I feel like there is an Onion headline in this somewhere.

Either way, I guess that means it is a success? AT&T is not doing ethically questionable stuff because Net Neutrality regulations can fine them for doing it?

WIN!

 

[Zarathustra[H]]

Indeed I have. It's how I found out the issue was happening in the first place. I had some lag spike issues with a certain game. I started trying to get as much info as I could together to submit to the game's support staff regarding the issue. I get a 22ms avg response time from the problem IP with packet loss of roughly 53% as of right now as I watch it.

If I turn on the VPN, it gets routed through the same IP but no packet loss.

Wow,

I wonder what they are doing to cause this...

I never have any packet loss online.

have you considered sending this over to the FCC?

 

[EODetroit]

So he's saying the law is working as intended? Sounds like a win for the consumer.

 

[dr.kevin]

yeah, fuck ATT. I left ATT half a year ago.
They still serve slow ass Uverse in my upper middle class neighborhood.
I have no doubt they shelved some shitty ideas.

Net neutrality has probably kept ATT's shitty products from becoming shittier

 

[Deleted member 83233]

I've got more or less the same sentiments as everyone here. Furthermore, if you took his comment as sincere at face value, and assume these "ideas" existed in the first place, and weren't about how to charge people more or anything like that...

What could AT&T possibly have an idea about that would be interesting or exciting to ANYONE AT ALL, that people would be disappointed that they had to shelve it.

I mean seriously, they're a communications provider. Hardly something exciting...

Aside from that, fuck AT&T...

 

[AceGoober]

Dear AT&T,

What are the shelved ideas?

Best regards,

American Consumer

 

[heatlesssun]

Dear AT&T,

What are the shelved ideas?

Best regards,

American Consumer

That's what I'd like to know and how net neutrality negatively affects them. If net neutrality is bad then this would be a great way to make the case.

 

[evilsofa]

Remember that time when we had posters here really angry about net neutrality because it was going to screw the consumers? Where are you guys now?

 

[heatlesssun]

Remember that time when we had posters here really angry about net neutrality because it was going to screw the consumers? Where are you guys now?

What would the telcom landscape look like now had the AT&T/T-Mobile and Comcast/Time Warner mergers gone through along with the defeat of Net Neutrality?

 

[pothb]

Consider the ideas are coming from AT&T (Or any big (maybe small) telecom), I'd have to say, it's too bad they shelved them....... instead of bring it out back and drop a nuclear bomb on it.

Fuck you telecoms.