AT&T Rolls out Fake 5G Network

Discussion in 'HardForum Tech News' started by Megalith, Apr 29, 2017.

  1. Megalith

    Megalith 24-bit/48kHz Staff Member

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    Aren’t there rules against this kind of thing? It does seem like false advertising when you slap the shiny 5G moniker on a service that is actually 4G LTE. Hopefully, AT&T’s new “5G Evolution” doesn’t make fools out of too many people or dilute the perceived potential of the faster standard before it even genuinely lands.

    …AT&T [is] beginning its campaign to sully the still-whole notion of 5G with its new campaign promoting its "5G Evolution" network rolling out in Austin, Texas and, soon, Indianapolis, Atlanta, Boston, Chicago, Los Angeles, Nashville and San Francisco. 5G Evolution, according to AT&T, is still entirely based on 4G LTE. There is nothing — nothing — in its current incarnation that has to do with what will eventually become 5G. Instead, it incorporates the same advanced 4G LTE features that T-Mobile, in its own admittedly bravuro way, has been touting for the past few months: 3x carrier aggregation, 4x4 MIMO and 256 QAM modulations.
     
  2. chenw

    chenw 2[H]4U

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    Does it conform to the 5G standard? If not, that's false advertising
     
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  3. azuza001

    azuza001 Gawd

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    If there isn't there should be, but even then who would inforce such a rule? Not our lame duck fcc.
     
  4. U-238

    U-238 Limp Gawd

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    The FCC won't and shouldn't because it's not their job. False advertising falls under jurisdiction of the FTC.
     
  5. Viper87227

    Viper87227 [H]ard as it Gets

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    Didn't the same thing happen with 4G? I seem to recall T-Mobile saying they had 4G when they really didn't. Then we had HSPA, then HSPA+, before they started rolling out LTE. I dunno if HSPA or HSPA+ were technically 4G or not.
     
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  6. Dead Parrot

    Dead Parrot 2[H]4U

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    If I followed the link from the 5G wiki article correctly, there isn't a 5G standard yet nor will there be until 2019. http://www.itu.int/en/ITU-R/study-groups/rsg5/rwp5d/imt-2020/Pages/default.aspx

    So anyone claiming to be 5G compliant when there is no official standard is weaving a web of story telling. Not much different the most of the WiFi vendors through the years.

    Sounds like AT&T is both trying to take advantage of the hype around 5G while at the same time creating lower expectations for a real 5G network scheduled for sometime Real Soon Now.
     
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  7. nysmo

    nysmo Gawd

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    I remember this. Personally I gave them a free pass because HSPA+ operated at near 4G speeds even though it wasnt the same tech at all. I was getting like 40-60mbps down back in 2005 or something. Because of this they tried to brand it as 4G which was sorta fair given how close it was in performance. From what I gather this 5G thing is total nonsense and only marginally faster than 4G. This is a deliberate attempt to mislead by ATT whereas Tmobile was just trying to woo users with a comparable service.
     
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  8. Spidey329

    Spidey329 [H]ardForum Junkie

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    Your Motorola RAZR must have been flying!
     
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  9. Chunder

    Chunder Gawd

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    This is where government regulation should be welcomed by everyone on what can and can't be called "5G". Same goes for the "organic" "all natural" "gmo free" "cage free" and other BS labels that only a few brands can actually claim to be true. We have universal nutrition labels, MPG on cars, energy efficiency ratings on electronics, etc. We should have the same for internet speed with 4G, 5G, broadband (no DSL, "500Kbps is not broadband). And what do we do if a company violates this? Give them the Volkswagon treatment. But actually PUNISH them. Volkswagon made billions on illegal sales of vehicles that didn't meet regulation requirements, but paid less in fines than what they made in their criminal sales.
     
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  10. Ocellaris

    Ocellaris Ginger @le, an alcoholic's best friend.

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    Now actual 5G will need to relabel the spec to 6G when it launches...
     
  11. Arbit3r

    Arbit3r Limp Gawd

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    Like how AT&T rolled out the "4g" as they advertised it but it was really 3g HSPA+. False advertisement is normal for AT&crap.
     
  12. Class action in 3, 2, 1....
     
  13. Eradan

    Eradan [H]ard|Gawd

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    7G or GTFO. I mean if you're just going to make shit up...
     
  14. Agent_N

    Agent_N Limp Gawd

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    AT&T and Verizon are just getting to the initial hardware testing stages which occur a few years before any technology rollout. Carriers in this stage are trying to iron out hardware and software bugs and figure out how they are going to deploy the new technology. AT&T got caught without a competing technology in 2011 with Verizon's 4G LTE rollout. AT&T's response was HSPA, otherwise known as faux G. HSPA is an extension of UMTS/GSM, namely focused on data aspect. LTE is loosely based on GSM, but they are more like very distant cousins.

    5G will be a lot faster, 10Gbps is the target bandwidth. 4G LTE is reaching for 1Gbps. Both will utilize carrier aggregation, 256 QAM, MIMO; but 5G will likely be shorter range as they will have to use higher frequencies (trial tests have been 60 Ghz) to push 10 Gbps. Carriers will likely put 5G tech on lower frequencies as they phase out 4G LTE.

    5G is more efficient at moving data than 4G, though not so much to net a tenfold increase in bandwidth.
     
  15. YeuEmMaiMai

    YeuEmMaiMai [H]ardForum Junkie

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    T-Mobile was claiming 4G speeds and they were right in line with what early LTE was
     
  16. Agent_N

    Agent_N Limp Gawd

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    Cellular operators were not using carrier aggregation at that time so I think you meant 4-6mbps. I watched a Verizon tech hammer a new "XLTE" (4G LTE on 2100mhz frequency band) upgrade and he was only able to achieve 35-40Mbps on that frequency alone, and that gets divided up between all connected users at any given moment anyway.
     
  17. Agent_N

    Agent_N Limp Gawd

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    The issue here is that 4G LTE is not HSPA, therefore it was not like 3.5G in terms of actual software protocol, 4G LTE is a much different protocol that allows data transfer, and because of this allows for higher bandwidth above what HSPA was capable of. AT&T played customers for fools since they had nothing to compete with Verizon's rollout of 4G LTE. Bandwidth was close, but bandwidth is only a part of the picture, the underlying technology that moves that bandwidth is what truly determines what it should be called. It would be like AMD calling one of their Vishera core CPUs and calling it an i7-6700. Is it as fast as an intel 7-i6700? Not even close.
     
  18. Parja

    Parja [H]ardForum Junkie

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    I'm double one-upping you and releasing 8H.
     
  19. Darunion

    Darunion 2[H]4U

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    Apparently in 2010 the ITU made the decision to include HSPA+ into the 4G qualifications. So it was actually "4G" but "4G LTE" was different. Consumers being the dumb beings they are, did not notice the difference in terminology (companies being aware of this and then altered their marketing accordingly) so it was easy for this to become a mess.

    Your analogy is close, but better would be if a 3rd party agency were in charge of defining what 'generation' of processor it was. IE if Intel had their 7th generation processor AMD could also create a 7th generation processor, thus creating a nice mess of naming schemes, not that it already isn't.
     
  20. flashoverride

    flashoverride Limp Gawd

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    Both AT&T and T-Mobile were claiming HSPA as 4G, and it eventually got shoe-horned into the 4G qualifications. Although they operate in different bands, both T-Mobile and AT&T were GSM/UMTS services, and now are UMTS/LTE. Part of the big switch is the re-architectured Core Networks - the EPC and the IMS. Once those are finished being ironed out, then the push for 5G RAN will be on.
     
  21. Vicinity

    Vicinity 2[H]4U

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    Holy shit, a telecom lied? Phone up the Supreme Court, boys.
     
  22. Agent_N

    Agent_N Limp Gawd

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    Most customers couldn't care less if HSPA was 4G or not, they cared about whether or not it was faster.

    T-Mobile didn't want to get left behind in the data race so they followed AT&T's lead. T-Mobile is in a much better position now as the number 3 cellular operator and the may be planning on using 5G tech on their newly acquired 600 MHz band to get broader coverage faster even if the bandwidth at 600 MHz might only reach 20 Mbps (speculating since I don't know how much more efficient 5G may be than 4G at a given frequency). Nevertheless, T-Mobile is aggressively upgrading their network to compete with top two operators.
     
  23. Agent_N

    Agent_N Limp Gawd

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    The issue started further back. Verizon chosse the path of CDMA, which later turned out to be the lesseer choice for the fundamental shift towards data bandwidth delivered to mobile devices. AT@T chose GSM, which which led to HSPA, which turned out to be a more robust choice. Back in the CDMA/GSM days of 2G, cell operators had to figure out which tech was going to work best for them since they would have to invest billions to upgrade their networks. Verizon couldn't go any further with CDMA bandwidthwise so they had to do something, such as move to 4G LTE for data bandwidth. Verizon leap frogged ahead and AT&T chose UMTS/HSPA and HSPA+ because it offered comparable bandwidth (at the time) to compete with 4G LTE. "4G" was shoehorned in becuase AT&T and other such large companies have stockholders to please and this way they could have a competitive solution utnil they were able to add 4G LTE to their network. The CDMA/GSM protocol split was part of the problem, two paths to do the same things. 4G LTE has brought all the cell operators together under one protocol. Now, the only advantage you might claim is more bandwidth available per user than your competitor. 5G should be an evolutionary step for each cell operator and should maintain the 4G and 5G tech until 5G takes over and 4G fades out around the time that 6G is being solidified as the next standard.

    Still, AT&T shouldn't be pulling another stupid move and claiming 5G when they have no hardware that uses 5G protocols. AT&T is recycling much of their spectrum for 4G LTE (700 mhz, 850 Mhz new and formerly used by now shutdown GSM tech, 1900 PCS, 2100 AWS, and lastly 2300 WCS bands). They have a lot of spectrum to move a lot of data no with carrier aggregation. However, 5G is shiny and new and a a marketing device to drum up sales for a crappy company that is losing ground to T-Mobile. Even Verizon is losing customers to T-Mobile. They are depsarate to retain customers and lower customer churn.
     
  24. buzzbomb

    buzzbomb Gawd

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    Oh yeah? Well, I have 9J...DEAL WITH IT.
     
  25. Darunion

    Darunion 2[H]4U

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    walkie talkies, having better range than cell phones for decades
     
  26. Agent_N

    Agent_N Limp Gawd

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    Yeah, but they aren't trying to make walkie talkies thin and light, so they have bigger batteries and therefore capable of higher transmit power.
     
  27. nightfly

    nightfly 2[H]4U

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    Basically, it's always safe to assume that ALL advertising is complete bullshit. All of it. Nostalgia buffs like to say that the amount of bullshit has increased, but I'm 60, and advertising was total bullshit back when I was a kid, too. Never believe any commercial or for that matter, any type of advertisement. The fine print and fast talk takes away virtually everything that the big print /fancy pictures of hot chicks, and slow talk tell you.
    Class action usually only benefits the lawyers and the gov't with all the legal work. By the time it's all settled, usually the consumer gets about 99 cents or something almost worthless like that. Like with the Volkswagen scandal, the corporations usually make more money than the fines they have to pay, or any reimbursement to the plaintiffs. Remember the exploding Ford Pinto's? They deemed it cheaper to pay off the families of the dead people than to do the recall. And Ford survives nicely today bigger than ever.
    That's the type of business people we have in America. Bastards. It's their job to sell you the cheapest crap possible, at the greatest price.
    So never, never believe an advertisement.
     
  28. YeuEmMaiMai

    YeuEmMaiMai [H]ardForum Junkie

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    that's why I said 4G speeds and they were just as fast as LTE at the time... Now they are on LTE...
     
  29. GotNoRice

    GotNoRice [H]ardForum Junkie

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    I don't even see the point of 5G. 4G LTE is already very fast in most situations. Fast enough that anyone can easily use up their entire monthly data cap in a few hours if they wanted to. Somehow I don't see them getting generous with the data caps just because of 5G. Hell I'd even be fine with 3G if it came with big or unlimited data caps. And to be clear, when I say "unlimited", I don't mean the current crop of unlimited plans where you get knocked down to 2G speeds after the first few gigs.
     
  30. toast0

    toast0 Gawd

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    They've got all the G's
     
  31. Simplyfun

    Simplyfun Gawd

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    Pfff I already rolled out 10 G in my basement.
     
  32. SixFootDuo

    SixFootDuo [H]ardness Supreme

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    You guys really think ATT is dumb? Somewhere they have a team of legal eagles telling them .... "don't worry, we took care of it" ..... "it's in the fine print!" lol

    ATT just didn't decide on a whim to wake up and pull this kinda crap out of the ass out of thin air. I'm sure they covered their bases very well.

    You guys are naive and gullible as fuck if you really think they are going to get themselves into hot water over this.