ASUS to customer: we don't care if you didn't cause the problem. We still won't fix motherboard.

Discussion in 'Motherboards' started by x509, Jun 14, 2018.

  1. x509

    x509 [H]ard|Gawd

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    I am helping a friend build a system based on a low-end ASUS board, cost about $120 at the egg. I'm doing the actual system build. I'm an experienced system builder, with at least 8 systems built in the last 20+ years, and never any issues around CPU socket damage.

    When we installed the CPU into the motherboard, it would not POST with all four memory slots filled. It did post with only two slots filled, and we did the usual substitution tests to establish that two memory slots were detective. So we went the board into ASUS for warranty repair.

    Their response was that there were 12 (or 14?) CPU pins bent, and there was physical damage, they would not fix the board at their expense. We actually escalated the call all the way to third-level support and then to the support department manager. All said the same thing. Unlike the others, the support manager seemed knowledgeable, because he is also a system builder. I gave several reasons for why I didn't cause the bent pins, (which I won't list out here), and the support manager said it probably wasn't my fault. BUT HE STILL REFUSED TO HONOR THE WARRANTY.

    Early in the call, the support manager said I should have first photographed the CPU socket with a high-resolution digital camera as a way to inspect the pins, since it's impossible to detect a few bent pins with normal vision (at least for my vision).
    I have never heard this recommendation before, and how many of us have such a camera. A cellphone camera won't do the trick here.

    So what ASUS is basically saying is, "You have a warranty, but good luck enforcing it." Bye ASUS, I'm looking for alternatives for my friend's build right now and for my own next high-end build in 3-4 months.

    x509
     
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  2. x509

    x509 [H]ard|Gawd

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    The call I'm describing in my first message took about 90 minutes on the phone talking with four different support people. We ended up with a Level 3 guy who said the same thing as the original RMA tech, plus first level and second level support. So we asked to speak to the Support Manager, who normally doesn't take calls.

    The support manager called the next day and said the same thing, and we thought, "We're done with ASUS." But 20 minutes later, the support manager called me friend to say that HIS management wants to talk with my friend, but he also said that they wouldn't repair or replace the board. I'll post an update after my friend gets that call.

    x509
     
  3. DTN107

    DTN107 [H]ardness Supreme

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    I always take pics of the socket for any RMA or sale.

    Why? Because it is the most sensitive part of the motherboard and if an accident happened, it can be difficult to determine the cause.

    A decent smart phone (even an old iphone 5) should be able to take a picture of it. A cheapo camera with macro setting should be able to as well.

    Good luck with your RMA cause but I'll be honest, it will be an uphill fight. I hope it works out though.
     
  4. jmilcher

    jmilcher 2[H]4U

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    Actually I've taken high res photos from my phone, when selling used boards. At certain angles it's very obvious if there are bent pins.
     
  5. x509

    x509 [H]ard|Gawd

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    Well, it's now Wednesday and the ASUS management guy still hasn't called. So if some management guy thought he should call my friend, it obviously wasn't any kind of priority. So adios, ASUS. I've been using their boards in all my builds for over 20 years now, with great success, but this RMA issue has me really angry.
     
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  6. KingGlade

    KingGlade [H]Lite

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    That's scary man. I have purchased my first ASUS MB and I hope that I don't have any issues with it.
     
  7. x509

    x509 [H]ard|Gawd

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    I've purchased a bunch of ASUS boards and been very happy. That's why I recommended ASUS for my friend's system. Post #5 in this thread, on June 20. Well it's now July 12 and ASUS still hasn't called. So as far as ASUS is concerned, I'm outta here. Those schmucks "saved" $115 by not repairing my friend's system for free, but that cost them business from me just in 2018: a new ROG or similar motherboard that supports 8 RAM slots, a 1060-class vid card with enough VRAM to drive a 4 K display, possibly a new high-end router.

    My friend got a Gigabyte motherboard, installed easily, booted up right away. As good as ASUS, and better in some ways. Only niggle is that their front panel connector "G Connector" doesn't help any with those weird cables. And the BIOS colors are garish. So it's adios, ASUS.
     
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  8. Nebulous

    Nebulous [H]ard|Gawd

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    Wow that's some serious shit. I haven't had an Asus board since X58. I've read nothing but horror stories about their RMA practices. Corsair did the same to me and I haven't owned a Corsair product in years. Little by little certain companies lose my business. Does it hurt them? Hell no, they have billions, but at least they won't get another red cent from me. I'm happy.
     
  9. cdabc123

    cdabc123 [H]ard|Gawd

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    [H] tip. you can fairly easily bend pins back in place with a magnifying lense (or a decent camra) and an xacto knife
     
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  10. Mr. Bluntman

    Mr. Bluntman [H]ardness Supreme

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    I've heard of ASUS long since screwing their customers since the Core 2 era, that's no surprise. I only ended up with one of their boards because it was in a killer combo (used, bought on the forums here). But Corsair? Really? Their PSUs and RAM are go-tos for me.

    This x3. I've rescued a couple "dead" 775 and 115x boards this way for buddies.
     
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  11. willdearborn

    willdearborn Limp Gawd

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    If you are within 30 days of purchase, why not return the board to newegg? If they sent it to you damaged I'm pretty sure they will swap it out for a new one.
     
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  12. Archaea

    Archaea [H]ardForum Junkie

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    Actually their warranty explicitly calls out they won’t RMA for bent CPU pins because that is not a manufacturing issue. And they shouldn’t. It’s basically IMPOSSIBLE to have been manufactured that way since they are machined.

    The pins were probably bent as you or your friend took off the plastic cover. That’s it. There’s no evil Asus here.

    Sell the board on eBay as is with the explanation the CPU pins are bent and someone will buy it for ~$40 and fix it. (Typically)

    Sorry, but the onus for this issue is not on Asus.
     
    Last edited: Jul 20, 2018
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  13. legcramp

    legcramp [H]ardForum Junkie

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    That may be the case but ASUS is shit in general.
     
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  14. nEo717

    nEo717 Limp Gawd

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    File for Shipping damage and use Asus message of physical damage as part of proof... or, recontact nEgg and let them know when you got the board it had shipping damage.
     
  15. KingGlade

    KingGlade [H]Lite

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    That's garbage! I have owned a fair amount of ASUS products, and I hope that I don't run into any of those issues dealing with warranty if I have any problems.

    I have had issues with Corsair PSU's failing, but they didn't give me any problems replacing them. I have had excellent luck with their RAM, however.
     
  16. Kardonxt

    Kardonxt 2[H]4U

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    ASUS support does suck. That said, new parts should always be returned to the retailer for a replacement. Dealing with any support instead of just getting a replacement from egg or amazon is 1.) going to take way longer and 2.) be more likely to have issues.

    This is also a good reason to have some self control and not be one of those guys that orders parts one at a time over the course of months. By the time you have the parts needed to test your purchased components your return window is gone.
     
    Last edited: Jul 13, 2018
  17. GiGaBiTe

    GiGaBiTe Gawd

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    ASUS has been garbage since long before that, the 2000s was a particularly dark time in their history.

    It started out with the capacitor plague (which they often refused to do warranty repairs for) and then shoddy engineering on high end boards. I had a few buddies with high end Athlon 64 boards of theirs with the most bizarre issues you'd never believe. One of them had a problem where the RAID controller would predictably cause BSODs in Windows, which turned out to be a well known design fault. ASUS had crammed too much functionality on the board, to the point where bus crosstalk caused it to be unstable. The fix if I recall was something ridiculous like disabling the legacy ports in the BIOS.

    But after the capacitor plague, they moved right into the ROHS solder plague in 2006. Cracked BGA joints on chipsets and surface mount chips killed swaths of their and ASRock boards, and even more for HP and Dell machines which used their OEM boards. I don't think that stopped being a thing until 2010-2011. I can still find Compaq/HP machines to this day from that era with broken chipsets due to the bad ROHS solder.
     
  18. cyberguyz

    cyberguyz Limp Gawd

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    The recommendation of the high res camera is a good one except for a few issues.

    Not sure everyone that works with computers would have such a camera. I have a dslr with a macro lens but I certainly wouldn't be carrying that into a computer store to buy a motherboard. And the egg, well they are an e-tailer so you would have to take a video of actually opening their packaging and inspecting the socket as soon as you receive the package. I'm not sure most smartphone cameras are up to these tasks.

    Now if you have a pal that bought the parts and is looking to you to assemble them, there is not an awful lot you can do.
     
  19. faugusztin

    faugusztin 2[H]4U

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    ASUS USA at it's best. Note i said USA. ASUS in EU is rather nice. A photo of the pins even with an average phone camera is good enough as a proof tho.
     
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  20. _l_

    _l_ I Am A Cock

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    You open the CPU holder latch, pull up the metal retention frame w/plastic cover, pop in the CPU, close the frame and as you snap in the lever the plastic cover pops off as designed.

    Please enlighten me how that can possibly bend any of the pins. The CPU only has contact pads so even if you place the arrow incorrectly no pins will bend. Unless someone messes around with a tool and the pins or drops the CPU on it's edge onto the pins I can see no way for the pins to bend. Far as I know (which I admit may not be that far) the plastic cover is used to protect the pins from falling objects, nothing more and nothing else
     
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  21. Archaea

    Archaea [H]ardForum Junkie

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    Consider this

    Which do you think is more likely to have caused 14 of 1150 CPU pins to be bent on the Mobo? The machine that pumps out thousands of these per day? assembling and capping the CPU socket with accuracy and speed only a machine can manage?

    No


    What about the freight shipping carrier? Do you think they dropped the pallet and damaged 14 of the 1150 pins under the protective cap?

    No


    How’s about the retailer? Did the box get damaged sitting in the Newegg shelf such that 14 of 1150 pins were bent, but the outer box was fine?

    No


    Okay then it must have been the customer shipping company. They probably kicked the box and just happened to kick it so it damaged 14 of the 1150 pins underneath the CPU cap.

    No?


    Then that leaves the novice user who drug the plastic CPU cover ever so slightly against the exceptionally lightweight metal CPU pins — even if unknowingly. Or perhaps slightly angled the CPU on insertion instead of carefully dropping it into into place from 180* overhead.

    Of this 5 scenarios. I know where I’d place my money, and so does Asus —- that’s why they have the warranty policy they do.

    The only exception to this little logical exercise would be if the motherboard wasn’t actually new/sealed, was an open box, or was a customer return and some other human had messed up 14 pins. Machines and shipping damage don’t mess up only 14 of 1150 pins.

    The only winner here is Intel for making their board partners absorb this drama. (Remember pins used to be on the Intel CPU, not the motherboard.)
     
    Last edited: Jul 18, 2018
  22. _l_

    _l_ I Am A Cock

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    My mistake, I didn't get the hyperbole in your comment when I read / commented and:

    I agree. Having worked as a repair tech in a HP repair center I saw my fill of warranty repairs that clearly were customer caused but since just one spectrum analyzer could cost up to $45K (in '87) we just went ahead and fixed it. Many customers were US Navy, NASA, etc. Also, had my share of lying buyers on eBay through the years. It's become so common I don't sell at eBay anymore
     
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  23. Hagrid

    Hagrid Kyle's Boo

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    Or they were fine when sent in and they bent the pins for him. :)
    Easy money.
     
  24. viivo

    viivo Gawd

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    Even if support doesn't come through, it's entirely possible you can straighten the pins yourself. I had a few bent pins on a z370 board which were my fault, and it only took a few minutes under bright light with a toothpick to fix them.
     
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  25. mnewxcv

    mnewxcv [H]ardness Supreme

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    there are tons of asus bent pin rma stories on hardforum. Haven't heard about it with other manufacturers.
     
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  26. Factum

    Factum [H]ard|Gawd

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    Why would ASUS replace a board that has physical damage too it?

    Someone fucked up and bent those pins...and I bet it wasn't ASUS.
     
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  27. bachastain

    bachastain n00bie

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    My ASUS motherboard also had multiple bent pins, as if something heavy sat on the socket. The first most obvious problem was slot 1 didn't work at all. After spending what seemed like hours carefully straightening pins under extreme magnification, I discovered the slot 1 problem was actually extremely tiny solder flakes in the CPU socket shorting pins together. Once the flakes were removed, slot 1 started working. But then it developed radom failures associated with the PCIE bus. Slowing it from PCIE 3.0 to 2.0 helped quite a bit but it was still far from acceptable. In the end I had to throw in the towel. Since I bought it from Amazon I was able to bypass ASUS and return it, no questions asked.

    When I got it the product it was properly packaged, undamaged, and still factory sealed. Whatever QA ASUS does on their products was wholly insufficient.

    To replace it I ordered a different ASUS motherboard and it's still running flawlessly.
     
  28. cyclone3d

    cyclone3d [H]ardForum Junkie

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    Back in the day, the first ASUS x58 board I bought had 1 bent pin from the factory. How do I know it was like that and not my fault? Because I examined the socket BEFORE installing the CPU.

    I did my research and found that the pin was a "no connection" pin so I didn't bother trying to get the board replaced. About a year later, the board died and when I RMA'd it through ASUS, they tried to give me trouble about that one single pin, but then I explained to them that it was like that when I bought it and checked to make sure it wouldn't cause a problem.

    But, the board they sent me as a replacement had a corner of the board damaged with a surface mount capacitor actually missing. That board worked for a week before it completely died.

    I then contacted ASUS about it and they were absolute jerks and put on the ticket "CLOSE!"

    Then I contacted Newegg about it and they gave me an RMA number and refunded me the the full amount I originally paid for the board.

    Sadly, I am guessing Newegg will not step up like this anymore since this was long before they were taken over by that Chinese company.

    Basically, if you buy an ASUS product you better not plan on haveing any sort of warranty if you are in the USA. It is much simpler and much less hassle to just toss the dead ASUS product and vow to never purchase from them again.

    Yes, I do have ASUS stuff in my main rig... I waited a few years before trying them again, hoping that their RMA support had gotten better.

    The motherboard I have now was the 4th replacement board for an x79 Sabertooth. First one the sent me was DOA. Second one I think also had something screwy with it. 3rd one was damaged in shipping. They finally decided to send me a "NEW" x79 Deluxe which has not really given me any trouble. Then a few days after that an R9 390 arrived at my door with 0 notification and no explanation of why they sent it to me. I called them up to see what was going on and they said management sent it to me for free for all the hassle I had to go through.

    From the stories I have heard about USA ASUS' RMA support since then, absolutely nothing has changed. They screw people over as much as they can.

    The big problem is, is that the USA ASUS' is actually a 3rd party company that just resells ASUS products.

    So the problem isn't actually with ASUS, but with the super crappy 3rd party company in the US.

    I really with ASUS corporate would say screw it and actually have a real presence in the USA instead of letting some $#@%$"&(#%^$&#^%(&%#@(^&@$$(@^& @!#(*!@#$^$#@*^@$#$*@^ company in the USA be allowed to resell and tarnish the ASUS brand.
     
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  29. bigdogchris

    bigdogchris Wii was a Novelty

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    I've never thought about examining the motherboard pins before installing a CPU. I guess I'm going to have to get burned once before learning not to touch the stove.
     
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  30. MrDeaf

    MrDeaf Limp Gawd

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    At one of my local computer shops, if you go to buy or pickup an LGA mobo in store, they will open up the package on the spot and check, with you right there, to make sure no pins are bent from the factory.
    I assume it's to also confirm that if you bent pins, you can't claim it was like that to start with.
     
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  31. _l_

    _l_ I Am A Cock

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    much of what you mentioned (especially dropping the cpu onto the pins) is technician error, happens to all techs sooner or later and if the pins were on the CPU they would still bend and no, the MFG's are not to be responsible for the builder's error(s).

    Now if only someone could get all customers to stop lying about how a tech item really got damaged/failed then IMO RMA's wouldn't be the nightmare they all too often can be these days.

    There's customers who lie (a lot) and companies who lie (a lot) ... what an insane world
     
  32. Dougie

    Dougie [H]Lite

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    From someone who handled 100s of boards, I can tell you it's the latter, they don't come that way from the factory. Advertising something like: experienced system builder, build over 20s systems, is like claiming you have a sandwich making degree from university. No offense OP, but chances are you broke the board.

    I have personally dealt with someone who claimed that exact same thing to me, I have no doubt in my mind that he damaged the pins.
     
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  33. Revenant_Knight

    Revenant_Knight Limp Gawd

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    I’ve worked on about 50 or 60 Asus boards over the years. Somewhat of a mixed bag. I’ve had two of their TUF series boards be anything but tuff. I have Nforce boards I still can’t kill (we use them for training now). Lately, they seem to be going downhill. The z170 pro gaming ended up being one of their worst QC efforfs for a board they ever made (I had two that literally had SATA connectors on crooked), and the Strix boards shipped with defective BIOs.

    Gigabyte used to OEM for Intel (if i remember correctly). They’re pretty solid. MSI used to have BIOS issues in the Z68 era, but most people like them now. I’ve got three ASROCK builds and they’re going solid. Just follow Buildzoids advice and avoid the cheaper boards if you can afford to.

    I’ve seen pins get bent before. 95% of the time it’s a user error. 4% of the time it’s a shipping problem. The rest of the time it’s usually a bad pin from a manufacturing defect that slipped through QC. We had one board come in, and It had a straight up finger print in the pins. Kinda of want to know the story on that...

    Be happy though that it’s not like it used to be: bent CPU pins got expensive fast and I’ve seen quite a few cracked dies before heat spreaders.
     
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  34. cyclone3d

    cyclone3d [H]ardForum Junkie

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    I'd much rather deal with bent CPU pins than with bent socket pins.

    CPU pins are pretty easy to straiten out. Socket pins are very hit or miss and break quite easily.

    I once went on a warranty call for a brand new Dell workstation that wouldn't POST.

    Got there and found out the CPU had pulled out of the socket in shipping. I spent probably an hour straightening out all the bent pins before it would go back in the socket. It booted right up after that.

    I guess that is one downside of CPU pins as the CPU is not held in the socket near as well as the socket for pinless CPUs have a much better retention mechanism.

    Still, I would rather straighten out CPU pins any time over socket pins.


    As far as cracked CPU dies... oh yeah, that was definitely a thing if you weren't careful. I never killed any bare die CPUs back in the day on initial install. But swapping out heatsinks got kinda nerve-racking. I think I killed one or two after quite a few swap outs.

    I also broke an Athlon XP CPU into 3 pieces when I was tightening down a water block I made. Tightened it down just a bit too much and heard a nice snap. Whoops.
     
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  35. Hagrid

    Hagrid Kyle's Boo

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    Your percentages might be wrong if you factor in that maybe when you send them in, that they bend them?
     
  36. Executioner

    Executioner Limp Gawd

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    Same here. I was NOT careful enough, and bent the pins. I sent the board back to Asus for repair/replacement. I learned the hard way - next time I will thoroughly examine the socket prior to placing the CPU in the socket - AND CAREFULLY.
     
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  37. somebrains

    somebrains Limp Gawd

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    I didn't build my last PC with any Asus components bc of a nightmarish multi-year multiple 280x RMA debacle thru a previous employer.

    I straight up told the guy we were on retainer with HBO at the time, I think I texted him one of my Oscar work badges.

    That got the gpus back, not working, so in the recycling can they went.

    To this day that company won't use anything Asus in their projection servers.

    They have gear running shows and rides for Universal, Adobe, HBO, etc.

    Figure about $50k spent on just projection parts/year and this was 2013. Company had been in biz since 2005 and is still going strong.
     
  38. 777

    777 [H]Lite

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    Things are working as intended. Intel saves the cost of putting pins on their CPU's and feast on the extra margins while motherboard companies get the headaches and backlash.

    Did anyone ever have problems with CPU pins? I can't ever remember any of my 486/Pentium/Athlon CPU pins ever bending when I've breathed on them.
     
  39. Revenant_Knight

    Revenant_Knight Limp Gawd

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    Keep in mind CPU pins, for the most part, vanished long before there were 2066 pins on them. Today it would be just as bad as a socket. Worse, if you managed to mangle a $1000 CPU, that’s the price of 3-4 mainboards. I’ll keep my pins on the mainboard thank you very much.
     
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  40. 777

    777 [H]Lite

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    No sense catering to the 1% when 99% of consumers (enthusiasts included) will not ever buy any CPU even approaching $1000. Putting the delicate parts on the motherboard, which is a much lower margin part compared to the CPU, creates a lot of problems for the consumer. Much incentive for the motherboard company to tell you to f off.

    I'm still trying to figure out how someone would manage to mangle the pins on a CPU. In my experience they aren't anywhere as delicate as Intel LGA sockets are purported to be.