I'm seeing $310 for the MSI 290 on Newegg...
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ASUS GTX 970 STRIX DirectCU II Video Card Review @ [H]
- Thread starter FrgMstr
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I'm seeing $310 for the MSI 290 on Newegg...
Starrbuck
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They didn't even compare it to the MSI 290!
Ocellaris
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Heat / power consumption + AMD drivers were easily enough to keep me steered towards Nvidia. I've done the 3 monitor Eyefinity rodeo with past AMD cards, I found the Nvidia solution works much more reliably.
MacLeod
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Thats for the top end one. Theyve been down around $220-240 for a little while now and with mail in rebates you can easily get away with one for $210.
No but they compared it to a 290. MSI, Asus, XFX, theyre all gonna be close enough.
Im with ya on heat but power isnt a big deal especially considering youre saving $100-150. AMD drivers arent bad at all these days. Im still running a 5870 in my boy's PC and they work just as well as Nvidia's do.
Starrbuck
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Oh, I didn't realize you meant one that was "close enough." Did you miss the Watch Dogs page where the 290 was 12 FPS behind the 970 and the 970 was > 60 FPS? Guess 12 FPS is "close enough?"
MacLeod
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Did you miss the BF4 where they were tied? Or the Tomb Raider where they were tied? Or the Crysis 3 where they were tied? Or the Far Cry 3 where it was only 2 fps behind? For $100-150 less, that aint too shabby.
And what I meant by "close enough" is that a 290 is going to perform about the same regardless of the brand. Theyll all be "close enough" to each other that the brand wont matter.
Well he specifically mentioned a brand new MSI 290:
But beyond that, in my searches the absolute cheapest brand new 290 was this HIS 290 at $270. There is an even cheaper one at $260 but it's open box and from PowerColor so yeah. Not disagreeing $270 is cheaper than $350, but the difference isn't as impressive as it would be if a brand new 290 was $210.
Starrbuck
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So it's not really $210 out the door. You have to shop around, wait for rebates that may never come, etc. Just a tad misleading!
Also, this [H] review is for the Asus 970, which is known to perform less than the MSI and Gigabyte cards. The Gigabyte 970 at $370 is a much better value proposition, since it is 10-20% faster than the 290 in all games they tested except BF4, and is even neck to neck with the 290X.
Just opened up my brand new 970. Took it out and admired just how big it was.
Yes, I bought it partially on the basis of the [H] review (Thanks Kyle, and yes I did use my [H] Amazon click through).
Uninstalled my AMD drivers, shut down the system, and proceeded to tear it apart. Took out my old Radeon HD7850, and only then I realized that I had built my water cooling loop too damn tight. The inlet tubing to my waterblock is only about 1/2" past the end of the Radeon. And the 970 is too long. And I am not going to redo my loop tonight, especially after working 12 hours.
So it's back together with the Radeon, re-installed the drivers, and my 970 will have to sit there until the weekend.
I sure am glad I installed some Koolance QD or it would be even a bigger PITA.
Yes, I bought it partially on the basis of the [H] review (Thanks Kyle, and yes I did use my [H] Amazon click through).
Uninstalled my AMD drivers, shut down the system, and proceeded to tear it apart. Took out my old Radeon HD7850, and only then I realized that I had built my water cooling loop too damn tight. The inlet tubing to my waterblock is only about 1/2" past the end of the Radeon. And the 970 is too long. And I am not going to redo my loop tonight, especially after working 12 hours.
So it's back together with the Radeon, re-installed the drivers, and my 970 will have to sit there until the weekend.
I sure am glad I installed some Koolance QD or it would be even a bigger PITA.
D
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I picked up two of these for SLI. Love them! Quiet, powerful, and super fast. I have not felt the need to OC them yet, beyond the stock OC speeds. Well deserved Gold [H] Gold award!
Ocellaris
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MacLeod
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So Im an AMD fanboy (despite owning an Nvidia card) because I expressed an opinion based on this review that a $220'ish card that tied or came very close to the performance of a $350'ish card would be a pretty good buy? Tough crowd.
Looking at Anand's Bench it shows a 970 around 8-10% faster than a 290. Thats not a huge amount for a $100+ difference and makes the 290 a great card for the money. Thats all I was ever trying to say.
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dude seriously are you for real. Everyone gets it that the GTX 970 is a great card and much more power efficient than R9 290 and R9 290X. That is the reason which has also forced price cuts on R9 290 and R9 290X. But there are some very good deals to be had for anyone who is purchasing a graphics card. Custom R9 290s can now be got for USD 270 and custom R9 290X cards for USD 330 - 360. So stop being a fanboy and appreciate the excellent prices and choice for consumers.
http://www.amazon.com/XFX-Double-1000MHz-Graphics-R9290XEDFD/dp/B00HHIPN5A
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814202079
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814161457
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814161459
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814150697
prices have changed significantly and now the R9 290 can be had for as low as USD 270. the custom GTX 970 cards are competing with R9 290X cards and thats a close contest. If you did observe the R9 290X has performed admirably well in recent titles like Shadow of Mordor, Ryse Son of Rome, Civilization Beyond Earth and is competing or even beating the GTX 980 in few of these games. The same can be said for R9 290 against GTX 970.
Shadow of Mordor Middle Earth
http://www.pcper.com/reviews/Graphics-Cards/Middle-earth-Shadow-Mordor-Performance-Testing
http://www.play3r.net/news/middle-earth-shadows-mordor-1440p-benchmarked-amd-top/
Ryse Son of Rome
http://www.computerbase.de/2014-10/...n/#diagramm-grafikkarten-benchmarks-2560-1600
http://www.purepc.pl/karty_graficzn...art_graficznych_crytek_znowu_morduje?page=0,5
http://www.pcgameshardware.de/Ryse-PC-259308/Specials/Test-Technik-1138543/
http://ht4u.net/reviews/2014/pc-version_von_ryse_im_test/index4.php
Civilization beyond earth
http://www.pcper.com/reviews/Graphi...mance-Maxwell-vs-Hawaii-DX11-vs-Mantle/2560x1
http://www.computerbase.de/2014-10/...diagramm-grafikkarten-benchmarks-in-2560-1600
http://www.anandtech.com/show/8640/benchmarked-civilization-beyond-earth/2
http://www.anandtech.com/show/8640/benchmarked-civilization-beyond-earth/3
http://www.legitreviews.com/civiliz...rmance-benchmarked-amd-versus-nvidia_152260/3
Alien Isolation
http://www.computerbase.de/2014-10/...t/#diagramm-grafikkarten-benchmarks-2560-1600
http://ht4u.net/reviews/2014/alien_isolation_im_test/index5.php
http://www.techspot.com/review/903-alien-isolation-benchmarks/page4.html
AMD is now giving a free copy of Civilization Beyond earth in addition to the 3 games from NEVER SETTLE bundle for the R9 290 series
http://www.pcper.com/news/General-Tech/AMD-Gaming-Evolved-Goes-Beyond-Earth-Hawaii
the R9 290 cards are right now unbeatable in their perf/$ at USD 270 pricepoint. if AMD add Dragon Age Inquisition to the NEVER SETTLE bundle it becomes even more favourable to the R9 290 as this game is one of the hottest and best looking titles this holiday season and supports Mantle at launch..
http://www.techspot.com/article/911-dragon-age-origins-hands-on/
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Again, show me where you can buy a brand new 290 for $220 on Newegg. It doesn't exist period.
The EVGA 970 FTW costs $10 more than the Gigabyte 970 G1 but with less performance. Why don't you look at the link I posted earlier where it shows the Gigabyte card being 10-20% faster than 290 in all games except BF4, and is basically neck to neck with the 290X.
Also it's not always about raw performance or squeezing every last drop of performance for the money. A major reason why I'd never get the 290 or 290X is because I don't want a space heater for a card. If Gigabyte 970 in SLI is enough to raise my room temp by 2C after 2 hours of gaming, I can't and don't want to imagine what 290 or 290X in XFire would do to my ambient temps.
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MacLeod
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Cant. Im at work and we cant pull up any retail websites. Dude posted he got his for $220, I took him at his word. I know they were in the $250 ballpark last time I was browsing around Newegg about a week ago and the 290X was down around $330. Seemed reasonable that one could find a 290 for $220 after a mail in rebate or a sale or something.
That one shows 20%, [H] shows virtually no difference and Anand shows less than 10%. Either way if youre trying to say its a faster card, I totally agree. I never said it wasnt. For fuck sake, is it this bad around here that a person cant say "man for the money thats a great card" based on nothing more than a HardOCP review without everybody coming out spitting all over themselves about fanboys and trolls. God damn.
Well see there's a pretty big difference between
A) $350 970 basically the same as a $210 290 and
B) $370 970 10-20% faster than a $270 290
In A) the 290 is clearly much better value for the money (performance-wise anyway), but in B) it doesn't look that impressive anymore. Plus it appears to grab a 290 at $210 you have to wait for a sale and rebate, in which case I'd argue you could do the same for 970 and potentially knock off $50 or even more. So once again the price/perf gap isn't as large and the 290 isn't as impressive as that guy would want to make it seem.
I mean hell, I could just say I got two Gigabyte 970s for $333 a piece without putting in the fine print, and make it seem like it's the best thing ever.
Alien Isolation doesn't really do the 290 any favor lol
In all fairness I think you really ought to mention all those reviews use either the Gigabyte WindForce, Sapphire Tri-X, or XFX Double D for their 290 tests, and all three cards cost around $300.
I'm not trying to be pedantic, nor am I disagreeing with the value proposition of the 290. But since 290's existence hinges squarely upon its price/performance ratio, it's in a very precarious position, so any extra cost incurred is a knock against it, however small that cost might be.
A) $350 970 basically the same as a $210 290 and
B) $370 970 10-20% faster than a $270 290
In A) the 290 is clearly much better value for the money (performance-wise anyway), but in B) it doesn't look that impressive anymore. Plus it appears to grab a 290 at $210 you have to wait for a sale and rebate, in which case I'd argue you could do the same for 970 and potentially knock off $50 or even more. So once again the price/perf gap isn't as large and the 290 isn't as impressive as that guy would want to make it seem.
I mean hell, I could just say I got two Gigabyte 970s for $333 a piece without putting in the fine print, and make it seem like it's the best thing ever.
Alien Isolation doesn't really do the 290 any favor lol
In all fairness I think you really ought to mention all those reviews use either the Gigabyte WindForce, Sapphire Tri-X, or XFX Double D for their 290 tests, and all three cards cost around $300.
I'm not trying to be pedantic, nor am I disagreeing with the value proposition of the 290. But since 290's existence hinges squarely upon its price/performance ratio, it's in a very precarious position, so any extra cost incurred is a knock against it, however small that cost might be.
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look harder at computerbase and ht4uresults
The R9 290 is not mentioned in the computerbase results. But given that the R9 290X is 8% faster than GTX 970 its easy to see the R9 290 on par or slightly ahead of GTX 970. ht4u reflects this result with the R9 290 edging out the GTX 970 at 1600p. http://www.computerbase.de/2014-10/...t/#diagramm-grafikkarten-benchmarks-2560-1600
http://ht4u.net/reviews/2014/alien_isolation_im_test/index5.php
Now come on the XFX R9 290 DD and HIS R9 290 Iceq are at USD 270 at newegg. by the same stance the costliest GTX 970 cards are closer to USD 400.
precarious hardly. If you look at the game bundle its Civilization Beyond Earth + 3 free games. You can grab Alien Isolation which is a well reviewed and recent title
http://www.metacritic.com/game/pc/alien-isolation
You get access to Star Citizen which is quite popular
http://sites.amd.com/us/promo/never-settle/Pages/never-settle.aspx
"What is included for the Star Citizen Game Offer?
The Star Citizen Mustang Omega Variant Racer by Accelerated Mass Design! Along with the Star Citizen Mustang Omega Variant Racer you also get access to the Star Citizen multiplayer module “Arena Commander” and the “Murray Cup Race Series”.2"
http://www.pcper.com/image/view/49077?return=node/61625
The bundle has a fairly good collection of older titles. There is also a good chance that Dragon Age Inquisition could make it to this bundle this holiday. R9 290 is competing or beating the GTX 970 in the most recent titles. So its in no way a clear win for GTX 970 even in perf leave alone price/perf and game bundle.
'R9 290 is competing or beating the GTX 970 in the most recent titles.'
patently false.
i just skimmed through tpu, guru3d, and anandtech's reviews of the 970 and they have it beating the 290 at every resolution in every game at STOCK clocks except for heavily amd-sided games like the older crysis's and coh 2. slightly factory overclocked cards beat it handily in every single game, amd preferential or not. give me a break. you also have a lot more overclocking headroom with a 970 than you do a 290. furthermore, you can get the new ac game or fc4 with a new nvidia card, both of which will resell for a lot more than what comes with the amd card.
the 970 is competing with the 290X, not the 290.
patently false.
i just skimmed through tpu, guru3d, and anandtech's reviews of the 970 and they have it beating the 290 at every resolution in every game at STOCK clocks except for heavily amd-sided games like the older crysis's and coh 2. slightly factory overclocked cards beat it handily in every single game, amd preferential or not. give me a break. you also have a lot more overclocking headroom with a 970 than you do a 290. furthermore, you can get the new ac game or fc4 with a new nvidia card, both of which will resell for a lot more than what comes with the amd card.
the 970 is competing with the 290X, not the 290.
Not at all. I have posted those performance reviews of the recent games like Shadow of Mordor Middle Earth, Ryse Son of Rome, Civilization Beyond Earth, Alien Isolation
http://hardforum.com/showpost.php?p=1041211886&postcount=57
So you are just arguing without anything to backup your statements
comprehension fail. the launch reviews are not testing these recent games.
As for the games with Never Settle they are already out, well reviewed and available for download. As for FC4 or AC Unity being a better resell than Alien Isolation, Civilization beyond earth or Star Citizen module thats an opinion and not a fact. Not to forget the fact that you get only 1 game with Nvidia whereas with AMD you get 1 (Civilization ) + 3 from the NEVER SETTLE bundle. Also many people are buying these cards to play the latest games so it does not hurt if those latest games are being given free
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Ultimately value is subjective and I personally I strongly believe I got my dollars worth with my New Asus Strix 970. I would rather pay more for this card that 220 to have a better overall experience. Better drivers, more updates and regardless of our feelings of Nvidia "working" with developers its 10X better than what AMD does. Years ago I was part of the red team and it was a gamble on how a game would run waiting in vain for an updated driver. I've been using Nvidia cards since the 8800 GTS and will never look back.
Those of you wondering why GTX 970s don't stay in stock, look at the TDP for this version - all of 145 watts. What has been the TDP of mainstream - not enthusiast - GPUs going back to the GTX550Ti? (The GTX660 has a TDP of 150 watts - in both regular and Ti trim; only the half-length GTX650 has a lower TDP among any Kepler-driven GPUs.) Secondly, Maxwell (all versions) have been about efficiency - far more than Kepler; performance-wise, medium Maxwell beats Kepler, and without needing any more power. In short, big-Kepler performance, in baby-Kepler-type TDP - that is why GTX 970 can't stay in stock.
Starrbuck
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AMD fanbois are getting quite irate. AMD fanbois in an NVIDIA review thread bragging about how prices are crashing on their wondercard.
look harder at computerbase and ht4uresults
http://www.computerbase.de/2014-10/...t/#diagramm-grafikkarten-benchmarks-2560-1600
http://ht4u.net/reviews/2014/alien_isolation_im_test/index5.php
So you accuse people of not backing their claims with data, but then go on to extrapolate (or should I say interpolate) data yourself. Very nice.
Now come on the XFX R9 290 DD and HIS R9 290 Iceq are at USD 270 at newegg. by the same stance the costliest GTX 970 cards are closer to USD 400.
Show me an XFX 290 DD that goes for $270 at Newegg please. My point was it's unfair to compare results that use a $300 card, and then go on to say the $270 will perform the same. The cheapest Zotac 970 is $328, but it's not going to be performing anywhere near the performance of the $370 Gigabyte 970.
That actually kind of proves my point lol, that AMD has to pull every trick in the book to make the 290 look more attractive. And are you seriously arguing the popularity of games now rofl? What if I told you I have no interest in any of the games in the Never Settle bundle, but am really looking forward to Far Cry 4 and The Crew? Are you going to call me an outlier and that I don't represent everyone? Newegg is also offering 2 free games with 970 and 980 now, but even before this offer 970 and 980 were flying off the shelves everywhere. We don't see the 290 and 290X going out of stock even with these ridiculous price cuts do we? (OTOH the Titan Z is now completely out of stock at Newegg ever since the price cut to $1500 lol)
Exactly this. I've already stated it's the whole package instead of the raw price/perf ratio, and that one of the major reasons why I'd never buy a 290 or 290X is because both of those are space heaters, and I could do away with them. That 970 can match or even exceed both cards at only HALF their TDP is an amazing accomplishment, but of course efficiency be damned because this is [H} blah blah blah
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Starrbuck
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Yup, value is very subjective so why someone felt the need to come in a thread with an NVIDIA review to 'brag' about how their 'other-branded' card is a supposedly better buy is totally [H]ard, brah. Better buy is in the eye of the buyer. Trying to convince others your purchase was the right thing is silly and childish, really. It might be fine for you, not for others, but keep it to yourself, or in your own fanboi board.
dude ht4u had data for R9 290 in Alien Isolation which you chose to ignore. computerbase showed the R9 290X ahead of GTX 970 by 8%. so its not difficult to see the R9 290 match GTX 970.
MSI R9 290 OC - USD 270
www.amazon.com/MSI-Computer-Corp-290-GAMING/dp/B00HPS4AFG/
Gigabyte R9 290 - USD 255
http://www.ncixus.com/products/?usa...R929WF3-4GD&manufacture=Gigabyte&promoid=1250
btw here is the R9 290 Tri-X (1000 Mhz) vs R9 290X Tri-X (1040 Mhz) vs Gigabyte GTX 970 G1 Gaming.
http://www.hardware.fr/articles/928-20/recapitulatif-performances.html
R9 290 OC Tri-X (1000 Mhz) - 98
Gigabyte GTX 970 G1 Gaming - 103
R9 290 OC Tri-X (1040 Mhz) - 105
Its a well known fact that on average at the same clocks R9 290 is roughly 5% slower than R9 290X. This is reflected it in the above review. So the MSI R9 290 OC (1007 Mhz) is a good value at USD 270.
lol. So when AMD bundles games they are pulling every trick to sell their cards and when Nvidia does the same its perfectly allright. the R9 290 and R9 290X do go out of stock. but they also come back in stock soon as there is plenty of supply. the sapphire tri-x does go out of stock. but is quickly back in stock within a day or two. here is the XFX R9 290 BE DD out of stock.
www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814150700
The R9 290 OC Tri-X is now selling at USD 320 (300 after rebate) and the R9 290 OC Vapor-X for USD 270 (250 after rebate)
www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814202079
www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814202103
As a buyer you just have to be smart and scout for good deals.
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Ocellaris
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As a buyer you just have to be smart and scout for good deals.
I heard there is a Hot Deals forum for that!
I heard there is a Hot Deals forum for that!
smart buyers would check it before they make a purchase
RaDeonXtreme
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I heard there is a Hot Deals forum for that!
And that is where i got my msi 290 for $210. It seems a few Nvidia fans really want to feel great about their purchase. All i said was that i can get a dirt cheap 290 for around the same performance as a $350 970 and they get their panties in a bunch.
And that is where i got my msi 290 for $210. It seems a few Nvidia fans really want to feel great about their purchase. All i said was that i can get a dirt cheap 290 for around the same performance as a $350 970 and they get their panties in a bunch.
well said.
Starrbuck
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If this were true, 290s would be out of stock and there would be plenty of 970s to buy. (Hint for AMD Fanbois: The opposite is true.)
I didn't ignore it, 970 was better at 1080p, 290 was better at higher resolutions, so it's not a clear win for 290. And if you really wanted to argue this, I could just say that the vast majority game at 1080p or below, and the difference in savings could easily be offset by having to buy a more expensive 1440p or 4K monitor in order to take advantage of 290's slightly better performance at those resolutions. Or that 970 is a new release and performance will improve with future driver releases, which certainly seems to be borne out by the fact that in older releases the 970 decidedly edges out the 290, but in the latest titles it has less of an edge. But then we'd just be grasping at straws.
What I'm saying is you buy the card that best suits your needs. Since I game at 1080p because I don't want to sacrifice 120Hz and the ROG Swift is $800+ right now, I pick the card that performs best at 1080p, and that's the 970. If you game exclusively at 1440p or 4K then by all means get the 290 if that floats your boat.
Please go back and read what you wrote:
Now come on the XFX R9 290 DD and HIS R9 290 Iceq are at USD 270 at newegg. by the same stance the costliest GTX 970 cards are closer to USD 400.
I specifically said "Show me an XFX 290 DD that goes for $270 at Newegg please" because of what you said. I'm also pretty sure I mentioned previously that comparing a firesale price after rebate on a year old product to the MSRP on a new release that's not even 2 months old (and hence unlkely to have any special promos going on) is kind of silly. But yeah ok.
The performance index comparison was done at 1440p, which we already know from Alien Isolation that 290 has a slight edge. But 1080p might be a completely different story.
lol. So when AMD bundles games they are pulling every trick to sell their cards and when Nvidia does the same its perfectly allright. the R9 290 and R9 290X do go out of stock. but they also come back in stock soon as there is plenty of supply. the sapphire tri-x does go out of stock. but is quickly back in stock within a day or two. here is the XFX R9 290 BE DD out of stock.
www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814150700
The R9 290 OC Tri-X is now selling at USD 320 (300 after rebate) and the R9 290 OC Vapor-X for USD 270 (250 after rebate)
www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814202079
www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814202103
As a buyer you just have to be smart and scout for good deals.
There's a difference between bundling games in order to make your cards a better value proposition because they wouldn't be as attractive otherwise, and bundling games when you don't really have to because your cards sell out within a few hours (or 30 minutes) of being restocked, and then go out of stock for a week or more before coming back again.
I already addressed the point about price/perf ratio not being the be all and end all TWICE. Except for the mining craze period, AMD cards have always been about bang for buck (except maybe the 295X2, but considering it was competing against the Titan Z it was insanely good value). Hell bang for buck is the entire MO of AMD. If raw performance and bang for buck were the only two things that mattered nVidia should've gone out of business by now. But no clearly that has not happened, and if anything it's the opposite situation. So clearly apart from the usual fanbois, those who buy nVidia cards do so for more than price/perf ratio. I already gave mine, which was I simply did not want a space heater for a card, and that's enough reason for me to avoid these 300W AMD cards.
Also has it dawned upon you that AMD is simply taking the brute force, raw performance over everything and heat and noise be damned approach to their cards? It's not all that hard to keep increasing the die size and pack in more transistors to improve performance, but it does take a lot of R&D and engineering to deliver the same performance at half the TDP. Not to mention nVidia had to turn their entire R&D team around and reengineer Maxwell on 28nm when TSMC failed to deliver on 20nm. That's extra cost that had to be incurred. Now I'm not saying nVidida doesn't charge a premium because they certainly do, but when the cost basis is different one could afford to charge less without affecting profit margins.
Oh and I got my Gigabyte G1 970 for $333 a piece out the door without having to pay the 9.25% CA sales tax so yes that's a good deal indeed.
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Lord_Exodia
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I'm going to utilize a bunch of gift cards I have for newegg to buy a 970 and only pay $20 out of pocket and go Troll the AMD forum to say that since I paid $20 for my 970 it's the bestest EVAR!!!!!
Liquid_Static
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Except it won't have been $20...
Starrbuck
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Well, we're still looking for that $210 290 card.
Lord_Exodia
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Oh yeah... Oh Yeah!! then I'll sell that 970 I paid $20 out of pocket to someone for $200 and to them it'll be $200 and the best EVAH!!!!!