ASUS/BENQ LightBoost owners!! Zero motion blur setting!

Discussion in 'Displays' started by Mark Rejhon, Dec 14, 2012.

  1. NCX

    NCX [H]ardness Supreme

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    I sold my VG236H last August, the best I can do is a CRT test. TBH I don't see any point since enough experienced people (Vega, PC Monitors, Playerwares [BenQ XL2411T], Mark) have all tested/stated that the Asus (and BenQ) has low lag and all of Asus's other 120-144hz displays low input lag. The VG278HE's 1 frame of lag @60hz is the only anomaly.

    If it were a new Samsung model which they advertised as having low lag this would matter more.
     
    Last edited: Feb 24, 2013
  2. Vega

    Vega [H]ardness Supreme

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    I am not convinced that LB add's appreciable input lag. I'll do some testing when I get around to it. The numbers speak for themselves. 144 Hz normal mode is 2.4 times clearer than a 60 Hz display. 120 Hz Lightboost increases that 144 Hz - 2.4 times clearer to 12 times clearer! It's a no-brainer. No one should be doing CTR-T anything. After you get LB to "stick", you remove the check-mark in the "enable 3d" box and everything works perfectly.

    Actually, since there still seems to be some confusion here, I'll do a step-by-step:


    1. Change your monitor to the Asus VG278H.inf and make sure your desktop is running at 120 Hz (if something else is selected, once you leave the 3D test it will kick it back out of LB mode).

    2. If IR emitter installed, skip this step. If no IR emitter, install the enable 3D always registry file. Reboot.

    3. Open NVIDIA control panel, select set stereoscopic 3D, run setup wizard, click next, next, (screen may now become slow and stuttery but don't worry), monitor is now in LB mode, click exit.

    4. Make sure "enable stereoscopic 3D" is un-checked.

    Your monitor is now permanently LB enabled, will work flawlessly, no CTR-T, slowdowns, etc, etc.

    Optional step:

    5. Go to adjust desktop color settings, use NVIDIA settings, adjust the RED channel down to about ~35% and tweak from there.
     
  3. Mark Rejhon

    Mark Rejhon [H]ard|Gawd

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    Hmm, I have a lightbulb moment. I have two LightBoost monitors. I have a 1000fps camera. I should point my camera at both simultaneously, with one with LightBoost turned on. This will provide a means of determining input lag. Keep tuned.
     
  4. Mark Rejhon

    Mark Rejhon [H]ard|Gawd

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    Beta testers of this INF file wanted. This INF file benefits users of BENQ XL2411T, ASUS VG248QE, and ASUS VG278HE.

    New INF file that enables:
    - 120 Hz LightBoost
    - 144 Hz NON-lightboost

    -> For people who always keep the "3D Stereoscopic" checkbox enabled at all times (those of you who hit Control+T when entering a game), turning on/off LightBoost is as simple as switching between 120 Hz (LB) and 144 Hz (non-LB), and you can use a utility such as MultiRes to have easy switching of LightBoost on/off.

    -> For people who want LightBoost to stick without stereoscopic 3D (so you don't have to hit Control+T), you need to enable-Apply-and-then-disable-Apply the "3D Stereoscopic" checkbox in nVidia Control Panel, everytime you switch back to 120 Hz. This will keep LightBoost running, be Battlefield 3 compatible, and eliminate the need for hitting Control+T when you launch a game. MultiRes can still be used, to speed things up a bit.

    LightBoost-compatible INF file that now supports 144 Hz NON-LightBoost:
    www.blurbusters.com/files/LightBoost-Monitor-EDID-override.inf
     
  5. Morkai

    Morkai Limp Gawd

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    Just setting S27A950D in frame sequential worked perfectly, i had completely missed it earlier in the thread.
    To think it was so simple.. and it also has the bonus effect of darkening the monitor/running on 100% brightness, effectively eliminating pwm (pwm wasnt a huge deal to me, but it made whites look "not solid" which was a minor annoyance reading text). I wouldn't say its exactly as good as crt, but certainly really really good compared to standard mode.
    If it adds input lag, i don't notice it (and i do clearly notice input lag from vsync).
    Running standard nvidia settings, but maximum pre-rendered frames at 1 (single gtx 680).
     
  6. Torr Samaho

    Torr Samaho [H]Lite

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    that would be this benq xl2411t crimson fix. thanks for this post.




    cool. i have ordered a benq xl2411t and a gtx 670, should be here next week. can't wait. i remember how clear the image was during circle strafing and fast mouse movement, i must have given away my CRT 6-7 years ago.




    yep, i notice vsync the moment i move my mouse if it's on. as i wrote earlier, i have tried lightboost on my S27A750D. input lag is difficult to describe, for me it's like i'm playing with gloves on, somehow input feels "floaty", less direct.

    different people, different sensitivities. the guy who bought my samsung doesn't notice any difference except the darker, colder image, but then again, i'm used with playing shooters on my pc only, while he's more a console player, and tv screens are known to lag, so he's probably more used to it.
     
  7. elvn

    elvn 2[H]4U

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    Let me know if you get any eyestrain. I did on my 750D. Like I said earlier, I'm not assuming that the Asus/BenQ's with 1ms backlight strobing and zero blur would have the same effect on me. During pixelperan text testing my 750D in sequential mode, there was an afterimage / crosstalk at several speeds during the test, and at the fastest the afterimage was on top of the original text making it unreadable. So -- those effects and perhaps a slower backlight strobe could have made my eyes sore where the faster panels+faster backlight strobing+less crosstalk with zero blur would not. My FW900 crt does not bother me at high hz btw, but viewing 3D material on my 750D always made my eyes sore.
     
  8. box_this_lap

    box_this_lap n00bie

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    I have the Asus VG248QE and just tried out the new INF (also using the .reg fix for 3d). When I switch to 144hz, Lighboost turns on and it's very stuttery. Only when I switch to 60hz am I able to turn LB off. Switching to 120hz turns it back on.

    Still looking forward to easily switching between 120hz with LB and 144hz no LB! Thank you for the hard work so far, Mark! Hope this helps.
     
  9. Vega

    Vega [H]ardness Supreme

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    Wait, are you sure you had LB on at 144 Hz?
     
  10. Mark Rejhon

    Mark Rejhon [H]ard|Gawd

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    I'm not sure. But I think it's a glitched mode to be disregarded: I got accidentally LightBoost working at 90 Hz but with lots of framedropping. I suspect he was having a 144 Hz refresh rate with a 120 Hz LightBoost, which would yield some similarly nasty framedropping motion.

    Have you tried my INF file and see how it works?
     
  11. box_this_lap

    box_this_lap n00bie

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    Yeah, I believe that is what happened.
     
  12. Vega

    Vega [H]ardness Supreme

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  13. Morkai

    Morkai Limp Gawd

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    I have now used the frame sequential on S27A950D all day today, and no eyestrain nor any problems of any kind. It's really great. Works fine at low fps as well (planetside 2.. fun game, but such low fps on a high end machine - often drops to 30-40 fps this patch, cpu bound on a 4.3Ghz 3930k).
    Still didn't notice any extra input lag.

    Excellent performance in fast games such as tribes.

    The screen is just a touch too dark in windows, but quite perfect in games.
     
    Last edited: Feb 25, 2013
  14. frunction

    frunction Limp Gawd

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    Thanks! Tried installing the new EDID and unchecking this box got bf3 working.

    I am still torn though on which I like better, feel like a can play better just going 144hz and uncapped framerate. Maybe there is some input lag with lightboost.
     
  15. Andyk5

    Andyk5 [H]ard|Gawd

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    Don't buy this monitor through whoever (erwin) is selling it on Amazon right now!! Make sure you get it with through Amazon with prime. If not, pay some extra and get good shipping. I bought it through a company that uses Amazon to sell it last Monday. They also charged me $15 for shipping. It shipped last tuesday and according to Fedex delivery date is as late as next monday. 15 friggin days to get a 24inch monitor across USA. It is ridiculus. What they do is, they take Amazon's price then jack it up $15, and then they add $13 for shipping and not charge you tax. So in the end the total amount of money that comes out of your pocket is about the same but instead of you state getting the money as tax income, these jerks get it as profit, on top of that insteadof you getting your monitor in 2 days, you get it in 2 weeks. So overall, Amazon loses a sale, your state loses the tax money and you wait 2 weeks for your monitor, just so these crooks at erwin computer can make an additional $25 on your purchase. I am pretty sure, if there is anything wrong with this monitor, they are going to refuse RMA or at least make me pay for return shipping, another benefit we lose as a customer for dealing with mom and pop computer shops. I can't wait until giants like Amazon and Costco completely wipes these bastards off the face of the earth and forces them in to bankruptcy.
     
    Last edited: Feb 25, 2013
  16. Andyk5

    Andyk5 [H]ard|Gawd

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    By the way, how come is this monitor 24 inches but 1080p? Is it 16:9? I thought 23inches was 16:9 and 24 was 16:10with 1900x1200, industry strandard.
     
  17. elvn

    elvn 2[H]4U

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    There are plenty of different sized monitors and laptops at 1080p. If talking about "Standard", the standard now is 16:9 like it or not. :p
    .
    Monitors are measured diagonally, so the ppi calculation is completely different for a 24" 16:9 vs a 24" 16:10, or any monitors with the same "inches" label but different aspect ratio for that matter.
    .
    In gaming considering HOR+ / virtual lenses/ virtual-cinematography 16:9 will always show more scene than a 16:10 anyway, so imo even a 16:10 is better off running games in 16:9 mode. The 27" korean 2560x1440's are all 16:9 too.
    .
    .
     
  18. Andyk5

    Andyk5 [H]ard|Gawd

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    Yes I am aware that 16:9 is the norm, just usually if a monitor is 24 or 30 inches it is 16:10 and 23 or 27 inches it is 16:9. This is the first time I saw a 24 inch monitor with 1920x1080 instead of 1200.
     
  19. Mark Rejhon

    Mark Rejhon [H]ard|Gawd

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    You can uncap your framerate during LightBoost, if desired. Some players are using 600fps@120Hz with VSYNC OFF with the strobe backlight. And, by the way, try high-speed low helicoptor passes -- aiming as the ground zooms by below.

    If you are very used to LCD game play styles, rather than CRT game play styles, then you may not benefit as much in the reduced reaction times overcoming any tiny LightBoost lag. Your mileage may vary.
     
  20. elvn

    elvn 2[H]4U

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    There are a lot of smaller 16:10 1920x1200's including 23" ones (do a google search 23" and then 24" 1920x1200 -> shopping.. apple, hp, dells, etc.) , and there are some 27.5" display area 1920x1200 (hanns-g, hannspree, etc). A handful of 24" 1920x1080 granted (Samsung, ASUS, ViewSonic, Dell, BenQ)
     
  21. elvn

    elvn 2[H]4U

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    Movement-aiming feels tighter to me even using the inferior version of sequential strobing on my samsung A750D, though it is noted to have some input lag. I'm still getting used to viewing it though. I played a few rounds of L4D2 last night and then took a break. My eyes didn't get beat up anywhere near as much as the first time. I also made doubly sure that I turned the response time to normal before I turned on sequential mode, and made sure I didn't view that monitor at all other than during the gaming session.
    .
    That deal on the Asus VG248QE for around $250 is tempting, but it will be some time before I upgrade to the next gen of nvidia card (titan or gtx 780 dependent on reviews). I'm also hoping a glossy 1ms Lightboost2 monitor will come out, or that I can bother vega to remove the ag coating off of one for me failing that, after I upgrade the gpu.
     
  22. Mark Rejhon

    Mark Rejhon [H]ard|Gawd

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    The LightBoost HOWTO has been updated with some new tips:

    The HOWTO now has the new INF file that supports the non-strobe 144 Hz mode (no LightBoost):
    http://www.blurbusters.com/files/LightBoost-Monitor-EDID-override.inf
    This allows users to more easily turn on/off LightBoost by switching to 60 Hz then back to 120 Hz or 144 Hz, without needing to uninstall the INF file.
     
    Last edited: Feb 26, 2013
  23. Falkentyne

    Falkentyne [H]ard|Gawd

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    The day that someone actually makes this work with the Asus/Benq monitors on an AMD Radeon card (someone mentioned people were attempting the hack the firmware? How's that going along?) for this will be a very happy day indeed.
     
  24. Vega

    Vega [H]ardness Supreme

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    Crap, testing 3x portrait LB Surround and having a heck of a time trying to get games to launch and not kick-off LB. I can get 3x portrait LB Surround to work fine on the desktop but it's like the games switch to some slightly different 120 Hz 3240x1920 resolution or something and kick LB off. Funny thing is once the games is closed and goes back to desktop LB turns back on. So frustrating!
     
  25. Mark Rejhon

    Mark Rejhon [H]ard|Gawd

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    There's been some research on DDC/CI using Entech SoftMCCS beginning at post 494 of HardForum thread. So far, the most successful DDC command is 03 FA 00 0A (from post 572) which enables the strobe backlight mode on the XL2420T but doesn't correctly fix the pixel response curve to stay synchronized with the strobe. SoftMCCS command final byte 00 through 0A adjusts the LightBoost OSD setting from 0% through 100%. We need more SoftMCCS guinea pigs to crack the DDC/CI puzzle, so a software utility can be made.

    It should improve convenient for nVidia users (And likely make 3-screen gaming less problematic for Vega too), so for nVidia users, the Plan B is to instead petition nVidia to make this an official driver toggle; I think nVidia would rather do this (and lessen developer pressure to create a utility) than let AMD get all the LightBoost goodness.

    Does this happen regardless of whether you enable/disable the Stereoscopic 3D checkbox? I'd like to help you troubleshoot this, because there might be a second person (who just got a pair of Titan's) considering surround gaming with LightBoost.

    -- (easy) Also google "3D Vision surround"; those instructions also help quite a lot. This forces you to use the Control+T method.
    -- (medium) Another idea is to download NVInspector.exe and trying to override the resolution, so that it stays at the same timings/resolution as desktop.
    -- (hard) Fund the accelerated creation of a LightBoost system tray utility. It would solve your problem.

    Let me know if I'm helping any?
     
    Last edited: Feb 27, 2013
  26. ru.imfine

    ru.imfine n00bie

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    1. Disable DDC/CI in monitor OSD.
    2. Try to enable Lightboost.
    3. Wonder.
    4. Reverse engineering some benq firmware modifers at http://gaming.benq.com/downloads/
    5. Do 144hz lightboost.
     
  27. Mark Rejhon

    Mark Rejhon [H]ard|Gawd

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    Reverse engineering firmware code is much harder than creating a simple serial monitor (Arduino unit to snoop DDC/CI channel). This should be able to capture the entire series of commands necessary to enable LIghtBoost. I've got the skills to build one of those, but there are so many things I need to focus on first, and I've got full time work outside of Blur Busters Blog. Besides, BENQ's site has no firmware for my XL2411T. Plus, the minimal research done so far is that the 03 FA commands actually work on all LightBoost monitors to adjust the LightBoost strobe length, provided LightBoost was already enabled (that's the part that needs work) on the non-XL2420T monitor. So, assuming all the series of command is captured from the nVidia driver, a system tray utility could then be created. Firmware mods would be very monitor-specific.

    Anyone else here who is a hobbyist with Arduino's?
     
  28. ru.imfine

    ru.imfine n00bie

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    Just try to enable lightboost with disabled DDC/CI. Or my hardware setup is so unique that can enable lightboost without DDC/CI?
     
  29. sharknice

    sharknice [H]ard|Gawd

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    Has anyone tried contacting BENQ? Maybe if they were aware they would develop it themselves.
     
  30. cpharlok

    cpharlok n00bie

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    I just purchased a 2411T just for the lightboost hack. It is incredible, at last we can enjoy proper animation! However, one of the main reasons for me to be happy is that I am a old arcade enthusiast (MAME emulator mainly) and thought lightboost will solve the problem of terrible blurring in fast scrolling arcade games. But seems not. With MAME properly configured to output to 1920x1080 at 120Hz blur still persists, and I think it is because games runs at 60Hz and mame just double the frame (via triplesync for example) to adjust them to 120Hz, and that seems to cause the blurriness. When a game is actually refreshing the screen at 120hz images per second, differents each one, seems it goes smooth, but if we take 60 images per second and double each one to achieve 120Hz seems blur appears... maybe that is the problem I do not really know... which is your opinion? Should frame interpolation algorithms should be added for lightburst and zero blurriness? If I run MAME at 2x speed games are cristal clear, no ghosting as expected, but alas, they are too fast ;) . Thanks!
     
  31. Falkentyne

    Falkentyne [H]ard|Gawd

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    MAME is an arcade emulator and arcade machines until around 2000-ish" mostly used CRT's. The only way in the world you're going to get MAME to look as it should is by using a CRT. There's no way at this time that 60 FPS will *ever* look smooth on a LCD.
     
  32. box_this_lap

    box_this_lap n00bie

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    Switching from 60 Hz to 120 Hz works fine. However, switching to 144 Hz turns LB on.

    Also, when in 3D mode, games freeze constantly until I hit ctrl-T (minor annoyance, but it takes a few seconds, especially when alt-tabbing back into a game). This does not happen when using the original .inf file supplied with monitor used in conjunction with the .reg fix to turn 3D on.

    I have also noticed when alt-tabbing back into a game, vsync sometimes turns on :confused:, as a result there is input lag. I have to toggle 3D mode (ctrl-T) a couple times to turn vsync off.
     
  33. Mark Rejhon

    Mark Rejhon [H]ard|Gawd

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    Normally, this is true, but there's something that's technically achievable: LightBoost at 60 Hz, accomplished via the 120 Hz + software-based black frame insertion trick. It would flicker like crazy, but would have the CRT 60 Hz effect necessary for more accurate LCD emulation of CRT for MAME. This would provide the perfect "nintendo silky smooth pans" effect on an LCD. But to do this, you need to do some modification of the software to pull off a 60 Hz black-frame insertion effect.

    Yes, CRT is however, more accurate, for emulaors, since arcade machines used CRT. But it should now be possible to reduce MAME motion blur by 85-92% using this trick.

    That said, you can have zero-motion-blur 60 Hz if MAME was reprogrammed to black out every other refresh (so that even-numbered refreshes at 120 Hz had MAME image, and odd-numbered refreshes were simply blacked out). This would reduces blur by 50% alone (60Hz frames at 8.33ms samples), then when combined with LightBoost strobe backlight, would reduce MAME motion blur by a whopping 85% to 92% (60 Hz frames at 2.4ms to 1.4ms samples, depending on the LightBoost OSD setting) .... The image would be darker, though. But it would be "CRT perfect glassy-smooth motion".

    Basically, this could be a special MAME command line switch.
     
    Last edited: Feb 28, 2013
  34. Torr Samaho

    Torr Samaho [H]Lite

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    IMO, nvidia has to realize that they have a good selling point with lightboost for zero blur motion. i can only speak for myself, but i'm about to upgrade to a 670 instead of a 7970 as originally planned because of this lightboost trick. the xl2411t arrived today, the 670 should take a few days longer.

    nvidia has the technology already, so it's just a matter of advertising zero blur motion properly and adding one menu to the driver.

    as for AMD, i hope they can implement a strobed backlight driver too, it's possible, as strobing on the samsung S-series shows, although nvidia's solution is faster.

    i think you should make it clear to them that every gamer can profit from clear motion, not just the hardcore types as some might imagine. i went to a friend who has a CRT left last week to take a look and refresh my memory. perhaps many gamers are so used with this lcd blur they have to see the difference yet.
     
  35. Mark Rejhon

    Mark Rejhon [H]ard|Gawd

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    My magic question, becomes: How are the graphics drivers turning on LightBoost? (If not via DDC/CI) That is the six million dollar question.
     
  36. Vega

    Vega [H]ardness Supreme

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    Yes, it is the million dollar question. Even with the 3D emitter I cannot get games to use this "mystery" Lightboost resolution/Hz that the desktop uses in Surround.

    So frustrating starting at a portrait Surround desktop in LB mode, starting a game which kicks it out of LB even though the resolution/Hz is exactly the same, going back to desktop and LB kicks back on. :confused:
     
  37. cpharlok

    cpharlok n00bie

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    Thanks Mark, that was I was wondering, if adding a black frame will do the trick. Actually was thinking also in a frame interpolation but it will add strange artifacts for sure, so I think I will go with the flicker thing. Time to get to source modification :D. Thank you!
     
  38. cpharlok

    cpharlok n00bie

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    Got it working! A perfect, cristal clear MAME scrolls and sprites, like CRT! No noticeable flicker at all, only brightness halved but with a 2411T you can increase it and tweak gamma and looks good. Thanks Mark, you are my hero now :D
     
  39. Mark Rejhon

    Mark Rejhon [H]ard|Gawd

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    Congratulations! I knew it would work.
    Can you email a source code (preferably as a patch against a specific version of MAME)? Blur Busters Blog would like to blog about this.
    Can you make it an easy command line option and submit it to official MAME source code base?

    If not, and you don't know how to make a "patch", can you send me the original source code zip separately, and email the modified source code files, so I can compile & make a temporary Blur Busters specific version of MAME, crediting you? I'd like to create a dedicated MAME page on Blur Busters -- with your name as credit as the first person to do pull off the source code change for the MAME LightBoost miracle on LCD. It will benefit every emulator fan who owns a 120 Hz LCD owner (LightBoost and non-LightBoost) with 50% blur reduction and 85%-92%+ blur elimination respectively.

    New idea: A system tray utility that does black frame insertion at the Windows Desktop, benefitting all emulators, not just MAME. I think it's technically possible with some good knowledge of driver API's. The Blur Busters Blog would be happy to be a download host for such utilities.
     
    Last edited: Mar 1, 2013