Asus 39 inch 3840x2160 60Hz panel.

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I know its been mentioned in the other asus 4k thread but I thought it deserved its own thread. No model number yet. Due to the fact its VA its almost certain it uses the CMO 39 inch 3840x2160 S-MVA panel which is basically the 39 inch version of the panel in the seiki displays.

Article about it from computex:

http://news.softpedia.com/news/Computex-2013-39-Inch-ASUS-4K-Monitor-Leads-the-Charge-358075.shtml

Currently TV's that use this panel in China are already available at around $650-700 USD. This means unlike the 31.5 inch IGZO display (PQ321) this one is likely to be affordable and could well be under $1000. All these TV's have a 30Hz max refresh rate.

According to the article the Asus one will have display port and be capable of 60Hz.

So far I think this is the most promising 4k monitor as of yet.
 

Sieg

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I seriously doubt that this will be less than $3000 even with that stand but I could be wrong. Willing to part with my eyefinity setup for this.
 

SixFootDuo

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The cool thing about 4k displays is that several companies in Taiwan and mainland China have invested in the the production side of this panel technology and consumers are no longer held as slaves to high prices when you only have 1 or 2 companies releasing said technology.

The 50" Seiki 4K display I can guarantee was seen as a "disruptive" product because it basically short changes Sony, Panasonic, Sharp, etc from coming to market later and at a much higher price point with these types of panels.

The Chinese have this game figured out. Invest now in infrastructure and reap the benefits 10x fold now and 100x later. All bases are covered.

We will see 4K displays in all sizes and shapes in the coming 18 to 24 months. Personally, I want a 50 - 60" 16:10 4K display for my desktop. To get a mental picture of this, take a 42" HDTV and add on an additional 14" to either side of the 42".

Both Japan and Korea will have no choice but to enter the market at prices that make sense to consumers.

Competition is awesome.
 

Blade-Runner

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I observed for the first time in person an LG 84" 4K screen at my local electronics/gadget store and was absolutely floored by the fidelity and acuity of these new screens. Seriously all the 1080P screens in the vicinity looked like absolute dog shit in comparison in terms of sharpness, vibrance and color reproduction.

So my only question now is why the fuck is it taking so long for desktop equivalents to be available given that PC enthusiasts have a much greater propensity to spend huge wads of cash on new tech!? The first manufacturer who puts out a 30" 4K 120hz glossy monitor with lightboost will get my cash.
 
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I seriously doubt that this will be less than $3000 even with that stand but I could be wrong. Willing to part with my eyefinity setup for this.

With the exact same panel going under $700 USD in China why would it be over $3000? That would amaze me if they ripped off consumers that bad.

Honestly anything over $1200 would make me think they are being greedy little bastards and its hard to imagine it being over $2000 to me.
 

Xpuser

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usually they markup the prices due to "electronics" letting consumers shell out 2k+ for "added features" of said tech. in essence you pay more for a scaler on top of of a mediocre panel.
 

Mark Rejhon

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The 39" 4K panels are available in factory quantities (e.g. thousands of units) for $425 per unit (excluding electronics and TV casing) -- build a TV/casing around them, and profit. The market for cheap 4K is just getting ready to take off.
 

Ravynmagi

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With the exact same panel going under $700 USD in China why would it be over $3000? That would amaze me if they ripped off consumers that bad.

Honestly anything over $1200 would make me think they are being greedy little bastards and its hard to imagine it being over $2000 to me.

They are greedy little bastards.

Korea has 27 inch 1440p monitors for $300 and in the US Dell, HP, and others sell them for $700.
 

zzz

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So my only question now is why the fuck is it taking so long for desktop equivalents to be available given that PC enthusiasts have a much greater propensity to spend huge wads of cash on new tech!? The first manufacturer who puts out a 30" 4K 120hz glossy monitor with lightboost will get my cash.
Great question. But things make sense when you think about the shit that monitor companies have been putting out. 16:9, lag, TN, and no significant improvement to 2006 tech. Last I checked, most won't even bother with >60Hz.
 

evilsofa

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So my only question now is why the fuck is it taking so long for desktop equivalents to be available given that PC enthusiasts have a much greater propensity to spend huge wads of cash on new tech!? The first manufacturer who puts out a 30" 4K 120hz glossy monitor with lightboost will get my cash.

Best put your cash in a nice long-term mutual fund then, because you've got a long, long wait ahead of you. HDMI 1.4b only does 4K at 24Hz and 30Hz. HDMI 2.0 will support 4K at 60Hz, but you won't see anything with HDMI 2.0 until next year. That will catch HDMI up to Displayport 1.2 which can do 4K at 60Hz now.

So you're waiting for a theoretical HDMI 3.0 or Displayport 1.3. If you can find talk about those being developed, post a link because I haven't seen any.
 

Blade-Runner

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Best put your cash in a nice long-term mutual fund then, because you've got a long, long wait ahead of you. HDMI 1.4b only does 4K at 24Hz and 30Hz. HDMI 2.0 will support 4K at 60Hz, but you won't see anything with HDMI 2.0 until next year. That will catch HDMI up to Displayport 1.2 which can do 4K at 60Hz now.

So you're waiting for a theoretical HDMI 3.0 or Displayport 1.3. If you can find talk about those being developed, post a link because I haven't seen any.

sadpanda.png
 

bexamous

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Best put your cash in a nice long-term mutual fund then, because you've got a long, long wait ahead of you. HDMI 1.4b only does 4K at 24Hz and 30Hz. HDMI 2.0 will support 4K at 60Hz, but you won't see anything with HDMI 2.0 until next year. That will catch HDMI up to Displayport 1.2 which can do 4K at 60Hz now.

So you're waiting for a theoretical HDMI 3.0 or Displayport 1.3. If you can find talk about those being developed, post a link because I haven't seen any.

Gluing panels together isn't going away. The goal is to use just one DP1.2 connector and have GPU driver hide multistream from user, so it just shows up as a single monitor. But technically if all we have are glued panels then no reason each can't have their own DVI-D/DP1.2/HDMI1.4 connector.. and then we'd have more than enough bandwidth. GPU Drivers are already having to be improved to handle the DP1.2 multistream setup, once that is there it's then trivial to support the separate connector version of this.
 

Jinru

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Best put your cash in a nice long-term mutual fund then, because you've got a long, long wait ahead of you. HDMI 1.4b only does 4K at 24Hz and 30Hz. HDMI 2.0 will support 4K at 60Hz, but you won't see anything with HDMI 2.0 until next year. That will catch HDMI up to Displayport 1.2 which can do 4K at 60Hz now.

So you're waiting for a theoretical HDMI 3.0 or Displayport 1.3. If you can find talk about those being developed, post a link because I haven't seen any.

Not to mention you won't be getting consistent 120fps on a 4k monitor without SLI Titans or better. Most modern games to come out will have to be played on Low/Med settings with all the special options turned Off.
 

w35t

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^ But how awesome will they look? Plus, with these higher resolutions AA will become a thing of the past, freeing up resources. I use waaay less AA on my 1440p monitor than I did on my 1080p monitor. I personally can't wait, but will definitely be holding out until one can be bought for well under $1000 and be cable of 60hz.
 

Snowdog

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The Chinese have this game figured out. Invest now in infrastructure and reap the benefits 10x fold now and 100x later. All bases are covered.

More likely they have figured out dumping, like they did for Solar Panels.

Sell your product below cost until all your competition goes broke, then you raise the price to make a profit.
 

Benny

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More likely they have figured out dumping, like they did for Solar Panels.

Sell your product below cost until all your competition goes broke, then you raise the price to make a profit.

Solar panel prices have been artificially held up on a high level due to German subsidies... adding more than 5cent+ per kw/h to the energy cost over here for the next 20 years, not including the necessary added power-line infrastructure.
Subsidies for putting up panels reached over 100 Billion Euros in 2011.

The current government stopped the subsidies (discontinuing some of the the green and leftist parties morgentau plan interpretation), drastically decreasing market value of panels, which were basically fixed to what still payed off at getting 25cent per kw/h in German weather. Many companies expected this to go on indefinitely, paying eco-lobbyists to help sustain it, and now try to label realistic pricing based on actual market value "dumping".

4K LCD panels.
The 39 inch model might not use any new technology as the pixel density is relatively normal. So unlike IGZO the manufacturers do not have to factor in development costs.
If it's based on a traditional panel technology prices far below the new IGZO, closer normal TV panels with a little added for dead pixel scrapping and complexity are realistic.
 
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Snowdog

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Solar panel prices have been artificially held up on a high level due to German subsidies... adding more than 5cent+ per kw/h to the energy cost over here for the next 25 years, not including the necessary added power-line infrastructure.
Subsidies for putting up panels reached over 100 Billion Euros in 2011.

It has nothing to do with Germany and everything to do with massive state subsidies allowing Chinese companies to dump panels below cost and destroy the solar industry in other countries. Which is why both the US and the EU have imposed anti-dumping tariffs on them.
 

Benny

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It has nothing to do with Germany and everything to do with massive state subsidies allowing Chinese companies to dump panels below cost and destroy the solar industry in other countries. Which is why both the US and the EU have imposed anti-dumping tariffs on them.

sorry for going further off topic.. f^^;

It's the history of solar panel prices, until this year it was never necessary to produce them economically as the largest market was so heavily subsidized that the panels could be sold far above what they would actually be worth compared to other means of energy production.
(currently over 32,000 MW with bad solar irradiation installed vs under 8,000 MW in US in regions where it actually makes sense... It used to be MUCH more drastic in earlier years like 2009 when almost half the worlds installed solar power output was installed in snow covered Germany)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_power_by_country#Photovoltaics

The illogic of solar panel pricing is pretty obvious if you look at companies like Nanosolar.
A US company that developed cheaper ways of producing them and started off with a statement like "no matter how cheap the others are we'll be half the price". It never had an impact on the market and competitors as prices were held high by an artificially created demand. (The German Green party's policy for supporting development of green energy no matter what's the cost)
Some companies will stay competitive even under Chinese pressure due to technological achievements, others will be killed off because they never had to worry about prices as these were primarily determined by the amount of subsidies Germans got by installing solar panels.
Chinese state intervention is one factor but the bubble the tariffs are trying to keep from collapsing as well as the companies producing panels in china were originally created by forcing German consumers to pay for overpriced electricity.
Germany is the center of the whole problem surrounding solar energy, as stopping the project (and it's Italian cousin in 2012) almost instantly killed a great portion of the largest market(s) for solar panels, something which even without Chinese state intervention would have had drastic effects on prices.
Even if they are undervalued in therms of production (which they aren't, in relation to what's technologically possible) they are not undervalued in therms of market value, as the market shrunk severely, and products that can't be sold regularly can usually be had with large discounts.

With LCDs the relation is different although comparable.
The technology was largely developed outside china, but china is now able to produce it without having to factor in years development costs, and the hassle of creating the market.
Driving down prices for the companies still trying to get a decent return on the investment by, from a consumers perspective, overpricing products. (like sony intended with the 4K TVs which don't use any new technology I'm aware of, and Seiki ruining the game before it even started)
 
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Pastuch

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Not to mention you won't be getting consistent 120fps on a 4k monitor without SLI Titans or better. Most modern games to come out will have to be played on Low/Med settings with all the special options turned Off.

Graphics performance really is a bloody nightmare, for 4k PC gaming we need HUGE performance increases from video cards in the next two years which is pretty unlikely. The Titan or a couple 780s still won't do it.

This 4k gaming article is quite educational actually:
http://www.brightsideofnews.com/news/2013/3/4/the-state-of-4k-and-4k-gaming-early-2013.aspx
 
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IdiotInCharge

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Graphics performance really is a bloody nightmare, for 4k PC gaming we need HUGE performance increases from video cards in the next two years which is pretty unlikely. The Titan or a couple 780s still won't do it.

This 4k gaming article is quite educational actually:
http://www.brightsideofnews.com/news/2013/3/4/the-state-of-4k-and-4k-gaming-early-2013.aspx

I really don't think so, honestly. Like already mentioned above, you'll be turning settings down to make better use of pixel-shader resources, like shader-intensive AA and fancy in-game effects. You'd do this anyway for any game just to make sure you're hitting your desired FPS/game smoothness and playability mark.

The main worry will be video memory with both an increase in resolution and an increase in memory with incoming consoles, the lowest common denominator.

Hopefully, 6GB and 8GB video cards will be pushed into consumer territory quickly, as the ~1-2GB cards most are sporting won't cut it.
 

Moogles

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The site you linked to mentions a 60Hz refresh rate. I assume they are mistaken?
 

IdiotInCharge

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The site you linked to mentions a 60Hz refresh rate. I assume they are mistaken?

The panels can do that, and more, but the electronics can't handle it if they only support a single HDMI input at a time. Binding inputs works, but the best solution on the desktop would certainly be DisplayPort support for 4k60Hz, and in the future 4k120Hz with upcoming versions.
 

GoldenTiger

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They are greedy little bastards.

Korea has 27 inch 1440p monitors for $300 and in the US Dell, HP, and others sell them for $700.

Dell for example also offers a next-day advanced exchange warranty for 3 years with theirs, though. It's not the physical product that makes for the higher price... build quality and support do. EDIT: That said... I would LOOOOOVE a 39" 4K display that does 60hz on my desk ;).
 
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w35t

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Dell for example also offers a next-day advanced exchange warranty for 3 years with theirs, though. It's not the physical product that makes for the higher price... build quality and support do. EDIT: That said... I would LOOOOOVE a 39" 4K display that does 60hz on my desk ;).

You and me both! Especially if Korea starts making em for less! I'm rockin a 27" 1440 monitor from Korea now and I love it! :cool:
 

Benny

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The 39'' will very likely be much cheaper and based on older technology, the 31.5'' seems to use the expensive sharp panel... (which I'd rather see at an even higher resolution as IPS would also be sufficient for 140ppi)

what makes you think Asus would downgrade it?
 
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Got $3800 for the 31.5 inch version?
http://www.engadget.com/2013/06/03/...site&utm_source=sendgrid.com&utm_medium=email

Seiki better get to work on a 60hz mode for their 50 inch because Asus won't be selling many of these.

The price tag of the 31 inch is no surprise. Its the IGZO sharp panel and the sharp display is over $4k USD.

The 39 inch panel from CMO is already being put in TV's which cost under $700 USD so there is a lot more room for that one being affordable as one panel all the displays are over $4k USD and the other one they are under $1k USD.
 
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The panels can do that, and more, but the electronics can't handle it if they only support a single HDMI input at a time. Binding inputs works, but the best solution on the desktop would certainly be DisplayPort support for 4k60Hz, and in the future 4k120Hz with upcoming versions.

Exactly. Just having a displayport allows it to do 60Hz @ 4k. The problem with the TV's is they are HDMI only.
 

AgentQ

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Graphics performance really is a bloody nightmare, for 4k PC gaming we need HUGE performance increases from video cards in the next two years which is pretty unlikely. The Titan or a couple 780s still won't do it.

This 4k gaming article is quite educational actually:
http://www.brightsideofnews.com/news/2013/3/4/the-state-of-4k-and-4k-gaming-early-2013.aspx

Once the pixels get small enough, running at a non-native resolution isn't all that bad. Just look at the Retina MacBook Pro.

If you have a 4K monitor, there's no need to game at 4K. That's especially true for the ~31 inch models.
 

GoldenTiger

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You and me both! Especially if Korea starts making em for less! I'm rockin a 27" 1440 monitor from Korea now and I love it! :cool:

:).

For now I will "suffer" at 2560x1440 110hz (120 capable but 110 gives better uniformity).
 

Brackle

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Man, was thinkin about maybe going nvidia surround, but if I can get 4k with using DP 1.2 at 60hz. Boy I might be hard pressed not to buy the 31inch version.

Specially with me getting 30k next month :) HURRY UP ASUS AND RELEASE IT.

P.S. Only wish it could be 120hz, but yea thats ALOT of bandwidth.
 

Benny

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Did anyone already mention that the 39'' one will probably be MVA based? (the CMO panel)
 

IdiotInCharge

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Did anyone already mention that the 39'' one will probably be MVA based? (the CMO panel)

Yes, practically everyone; thanks for reading! :rolleyes:

In practice, I think I'd really enjoy one of these in 39" form. 4k will definitely be a stretch for my 2GB GTX670's, but I'd love it for photo editing once calibrated. Keeping track of per-pixel adjustments is hard with a 20MP camera!
 

NLPsajeeth

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Have a few more details and another picture:
http://www.noteloop.com/blog/2013/06/07/asus-4k-39-inch-monitor-prototype/

5000:1 contrast ratio is certainly better on paper than the 800:1 contrast ratio found in their 31.5 IGZO 4k monitor. Though since the panels of each display are made by different companies I'd take that with a grain of salt.

It would have been nice if it had true 10-bit color rather than 8-bit + FRC. But with cost cutting measures like that it should definitely come in way under $1000.
 
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Benny

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Yes, practically everyone; thanks for reading! :rolleyes:

:D looks like I skipped the first line of the thread, :eek:
But most seem to (asking why we expect it to be cheaper than the IGZO based 31'' monitor..)

And with Seiki also planing a 39'' version (hopefully with 60Hz support) there will be a comparable product to push the price down.
 
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Have a few more details and another picture:
http://www.noteloop.com/blog/2013/06/07/asus-4k-39-inch-monitor-prototype/

5000:1 contrast ratio is certainly better on paper than the 800:1 contrast ratio found in their 31.5 IGZO 4k monitor. Though since the panels of each display are made by different companies I'd take that with a grain of salt.

It would have been nice if it had true 10-bit color rather than 8-bit + FRC. But with cost cutting measures like that it should definitely come in way under $1000.


Actually S-MVA type panels are known to have superior contrast to IPS (one of its pluses) without the dynamic light BS. The blacks are super deep on my 50 inch seiki so I would believe that 5000:1 value being thrown around. Its *way* blacker than my 3007-WFP or my catleap Q270.

I think this panel is going to be the most promising 4k panel for monitor use yet.

S-MVA is quite nice. I am really enjoying my 50 incher but at 30Hz and 50 inches it is a bit too big as a monitor. I think a 39 inch would make for a really nice large sized monitor and 60Hz would be awesome. Might even be overclockable to higher too since the panel can do 120Hz.

And w00t. Sub $1000. I knew they could do it if they weren't greedy. Giving me great hope!
 

Megalith

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I will buy it without a second thought if it's priced at 2k or lower.
 
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