Artificial Intelligence will be Just as Racist and Sexist

FrgMstr

FrgMstr

Just Plain Mean
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The NVIDIA AI Podcast kicks around an interesting subject. It seems as though AI is getting taught racism and sexism because we are sucky at being people? It was also discovered that AI was a bit pissed because there seems to be a healthy AI wage gap as well. /s

Listen to the podcast here.

“As machines are trained on human data, they also learn human culture and effects about the world, and bias is part of this,” explains Aylin Caliskan, a ‎postdoctoral research associate at Princeton University.
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It seems as though weapons and insects are on the bias list as well. Who the hell does not like a well made and configured AR-15 or tarantula as a pet?
 
I feel that someone has confused 'recorded' with 'learned'. Also 'learned' and 'programmed' seems to be freely interchanged like it is no big deal. The wishful thinking is strong with this one.

It is like they are pre-excusing the downfalls to come.

It would seem to me that so-called AI will be a direct reflection of the people involved in programming it. So AI from France will be different than AI from Russia.
Fun times.
 
Would be one hell of a surprise if the Nvidia AI did not need to be taught anything :)
 
Hey, we all know at least one dick-bag who claims "I'm not racist, I hate all people equally." everyone knows he's full of shit. He's a racist ass hole pretending to be the cool kind of misanthropic.

This is a non-human intelligence that will be dealing with humans all the time.

True AI will actually hate all humans equally.
 
AI can only learn from examples. Stereotypes come from common themes, there is a reason for their existence.
 
At that, if you give an AI access to statistics and raw data, it'd probably learn things that would otherwise be considered racist/sexist. Given data, it'd see that feminine names are more often associated with terms like "kitchen" and "mother", that middle eastern names are more often associated with terms like "terrorism" and "bomb" and such. Now after that AI fully understands that names like "Jayqwon" are more associated with common crimes than "Chip" or "Brent", what then? Does that make it racist?
 
AI, true intelligence, I'm not buying it yet.

Humans have bias, they have likes and dislikes, or less likes. It's part of our animal and anyone that claims otherwise ..... is an anomaly for sure. But humans also have ethics and morals and a vision of who they are, or who they don't want to be.

The person who allows their bias to rule their decisions regarding interactions with others, this is your racist, misogynist, WSJ extremist, etc.

The person who builds a sense of self that recognizes his bias and questions themselves in order to be fair despite their bias, this is a decent person.

A person who claims no bias is fooling themselves. They might be the decent person above, but they have convinced themselves they are unbiased and therefor, not human.

Now you can bring up some study of some people who were never exposed to something and therefor never developed a racial bias, so what. It only means they don't have that particular bias, not that they have no bias at all.

Programing AI, if these researchers feel that the machine will be racist then they must accept that they can't program ethics and morals in order to override bias. If they can't handle ethics, how do they intend to reach the lofty heights of true AI?

I think these researchers count themselves in group #3, they think they are without bias, therefor they are thinking their machines should be without bias. Now they claim this isn't possible and a machine with bias must become racist and bad. See, if you think you are without bias yourself, you don't recognize that it's your moral counterweight that is evening the scales. Therefor it doesn't come to mind that a machine's bias will require an ethical counterweight as well.

I can't afford to listen to this podcast at work, so my post is without any detailed knowledge of that info.
 
EVERYBODY is racist, bigoted, and biased. It's our sense of human decency, or guilt, or not wanting to get the crapped kicked out of us by Jamal/Patrick/Piotr when we have a hilarious joke about black/Irish/Polish people that keeps it inside.

Take away that filter and we'd be no different.

*edited poor grammar
 
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Pusher of Buttons said:
EVERYBODY is racist, bigoted, and biased. It's our sense of human decency, or guilt, or not wanting to get the crapped kicked out of us by Jamal/Patrick/Piotr when we have a hilarious joke about black/Irish/Polish people thats them inside.

Take away that filter and we'd be no different.
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Nytegard said:
Well, it will be racist and sexist regardless, because we've come to a point in our society where even objective information and facts are now considered such.
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Racist jokes are NOT hilarious unless one is a racist. Put down humor has no place in a society of equals. Only is f-ed up system of ex[ploitation is the belittling of workers and especially of men and women of color considered chique and avant garde. Our culture is a justification for racism and sexism because it makes money for big business. One third of all profits on Wall Street come from lower wages paid to Black,Latin, Asian, and women workers.
 
os2wiz said:
Racist jokes are NOT hilarious unless one is a racist. Put down humor has no place in a society of equals. Only is f-ed up system of ex[ploitation is the belittling of workers and especially of men and women of color considered chique and avant garde. Our culture is a justification for racism and sexism because it makes money for big business. One third of all profits on Wall Street come from lower wages paid to Black,Latin, Asian, and women workers.
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Thankfully everyone IS racist, bigoted, and biased, and thus put down humor is almost always funny. Appropriate or not is another story entirely....but you're not going to find many comedians who make their cash catering to that market.
 
os2wiz said:
Racist jokes are NOT hilarious unless one is a racist. Put down humor has no place in a society of equals. Only is f-ed up system of ex[ploitation is the belittling of workers and especially of men and women of color considered chique and avant garde. Our culture is a justification for racism and sexism because it makes money for big business. One third of all profits on Wall Street come from lower wages paid to Black,Latin, Asian, and women workers.
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If a joke is funny I laugh, end of story. When Chris Rock or Eddie Murphy make racist jokes against white people, I laughed my ass off... I'm white, do I hate my own race? Why can we have black lives matter but not white lives matter? I mean... if true equality is something you are after you gotta accept it all. True equality is something pretty much nobody on earth has any clue about.

You sound like one of those fantasy land college kids who actually believe the stupid shit you are saying. As a white guy... would it be reasonable to go over to Japan, Africa, or India and expect the same sort of idealist treatment you have in your head? What about after working/paying for my major degree as a white guy, I land a job, and find out that the guy next to me skated in the door with shitty grades, no experience, and a crappier work ethic, but makes the same or more just because of the color of his skin... would you rise to my defense and say that's not fair? Or would you give the black guy a free pass and lower standards because of color? I'd love to see how you rationalize the valid data points of X race vs X crime statistics, because numbers are racist too right?

When it comes to business I don't give a shit what color they are just that they can do the job. Part of said business model is paying the lowest price I can for X units of labor or product.
 
What if the people (SJW/activists) who are currently controlling the narrative as to what is racist or sexist, etc. are themselves biased with a political agenda? These people claim if you are not a multiculturalism than you must be a racist however Dr. Martin Luther King advocated "integration" as the solution to segregation and racism which makes him a monoculturalist. Was Dr. King a racist? Somehow I don't think so...

Humorless fascist SJW's seek to suppress free speech, free thinking, and enjoying life. If an emotionless AI becomes racist and sexist maybe we should reject the opinions of those seeking to define ourselves.
 
DrLobotomy said:
I feel that someone has confused 'recorded' with 'learned'. Also 'learned' and 'programmed' seems to be freely interchanged like it is no big deal. The wishful thinking is strong with this one.
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I feel like I just explained this. There's very little programming. I could spin up a Tensorflow unit on my home PC with minimal lines of code being passed to it and tell it to learn a specific task. It'll do so through trial and error. The key issue is, the data. The machine can very easily learn to become racist if the dataset has undetected racism. That's not a programmed outcome, that's the machine inferring that data X has outcome Y.

So if I want to create a simple ML system to take age, gender, and race as inputs, giving me likelihood of commiting a crime as an output. The machine may infer that "blacks are more likely to commit a crime" based on various statistics that are strewed that way (prison population by race). That's how it's learning racism. It's not being programmed to be racist, it's simply inferring racist tendancies the same way humans do - through sensory input. You don't just wake up and be racist, you learn it.


Udacity has a free course on Machine Learning if you want to learn how these machines operate.
 
thejokker said:
What if the people (SJW/activists) who are currently controlling the narrative as to what is racist or sexist, etc. are themselves biased with a political agenda? These people claim if you are not a multiculturalism than you must be a racist however Dr. Martin Luther King advocated "integration" as the solution to segregation and racism which makes him a monoculturalist. Was Dr. King a racist? Somehow I don't think so...

Humorless fascist SJW's seek to suppress free speech, free thinking, and enjoying life. If an emotionless AI becomes racist and sexist maybe we should reject the opinions of those seeking to define ourselves.
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If your point is to suggest that a rational AI taking in all information may see differences in gender or race that offend people, then I agree. If your further point is that some people will want to code restrictions on the AI to avoid this "racist/sexist" outcome, you're also probably right. If your final Q.E.D. is that such actions will make the resultant AI just as sensitive as some people and thus less useful in its role as a logical arbiter, yeah, that's pretty much a given.

I think they're more touching on how understanding humanity requires knowledge and even "feeling" of bias in order to be "more human." That can certainly be a negative but when we have bans on license plates saying "We are the Borg, Resistance is Futile" along with "You will be assimilated" then I have to wonder if the AI in absence of some viewpoint analysis won't be utterly confused; it cuts both ways. It's certainly dangerous to limit potential to serve ideological prerogatives.
 
If an AI is given access to raw unfiltered and unweighted data it will absolutely be considered racist because as Jack said people can't handle the truth. Actuaries learned a long time ago that even though the numbers are indisputable you still can't get away with some things without being called a racist.
 
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Q...A.I.: are you the fastest man in the world?
A:...no, I am a women, whom is not the fastest man in the world.
Q...A.I.:Are you the fastest women in the world?
A:...Yes I am.
Q...A.I.:are you faster than the fastest man in the world?
A...no
Q...A.I.:so , there are certain ascertainable criteria for differentiation between both men and women and best ( of both ) and worst ( of both ), would you like to speculate what those may be ?

They say the ugliest mirror is truth.
 
I genuinely think that racism occurs, and continues to occur, is because the very concept of 'race' is still in existence.

Categorising people via "races" will eventually always devolve into "we" vs "them".

Ever seen that comic where a random guy picks up a blue flag, gets confused, but when another passes him by and greets him while holding a red flag, but the blue flag guy immediately despises him?

"Race" and "Racism" is EXACTLY that. The moment we start dividing people up, we start preferring one group over the other. This is one of the reasons why I believe discrimination in general is most often taught, rarely learned through experience.

AI will have, at least, the luxury of vast amount of data from individuals, humans cannot, so AI will at least be able to make an 'educated' guess, but humans will most likely paint them with the same brush, and then nitpick the ones that do not conform to that generalisation.
 
chenw said:
I genuinely think that racism occurs, and continues to occur, is because the very concept of 'race' is still in existence.

Categorising people via "races" will eventually always devolve into "we" vs "them".

Ever seen that comic where a random guy picks up a blue flag, gets confused, but when another passes him by and greets him while holding a red flag, but the blue flag guy immediately despises him?

"Race" and "Racism" is EXACTLY that. The moment we start dividing people up, we start preferring one group over the other. This is one of the reasons why I believe discrimination in general is most often taught, rarely learned through experience.

AI will have, at least, the luxury of vast amount of data from individuals, humans cannot, so AI will at least be able to make an 'educated' guess, but humans will most likely paint them with the same brush, and then nitpick the ones that do not conform to that generalisation.
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Man, that is a huge over simplification of a deep routed instinct.
 
Maxx said:
If your point is to suggest that a rational AI taking in all information may see differences in gender or race that offend people, then I agree. If your further point is that some people will want to code restrictions on the AI to avoid this "racist/sexist" outcome, you're also probably right. If your final Q.E.D. is that such actions will make the resultant AI just as sensitive as some people and thus less useful in its role as a logical arbiter, yeah, that's pretty much a given.

I think they're more touching on how understanding humanity requires knowledge and even "feeling" of bias in order to be "more human." That can certainly be a negative but when we have bans on license plates saying "We are the Borg, Resistance is Futile" along with "You will be assimilated" then I have to wonder if the AI in absence of some viewpoint analysis won't be utterly confused; it cuts both ways. It's certainly dangerous to limit potential to serve ideological prerogatives.
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What if racism and sexism as is currently defined in popular culture represents behaviors that have adaptive properties which promotes survival?

Until we can achieve complete integration of the races it is dangerous for race "X" to enter in certain parts of a city late at night inhabited by race "Y". Doing so can have negative consequences. Men are in general are physically stronger than women. Engaging in behavior "A" is more dangerous for women than men. While there is certainly despicable examples of racism and sexism some of what is labeled racist or sexist is both true and promotes survival. That a logical and emotionless AI differentiates between the sexes and races indicates a logical and rational human may also do so, without malice in some circumstances, contrary to the accusations of some others.
 
If artificial intelligence uses things like "statistics" to generate "predictions", yea it's gonna be racist, sexist, biased, etc... Is it "sexist" to "predict" that a "woman" is "unlikely" to be as "physically strong" as a "man"? Of course! because that would assume there are only 2 genders. But aside from that point, the AI might look at a history of female olympians, then male olympians, draw conclusions from that data, and relay back an interpretation. How bigoted!
 
thejokker said:
What if racism and sexism as is currently defined in popular culture represents behaviors that have adaptive properties which promotes survival?
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It really isn't a what if question, it is. We will never solve racism with today's current tactic, because it refuses to acknowledge that everyone is on some level racist due to deep rooted survival mechanisms, instinct, that says same as me is safe different from me is dangerous. In all fairness it was a very successful survival mechanism for millennium, we cannot expect to completely overturn biological instinct in a hundred years.

http://time.com/67092/baby-racists-survival-strategy/
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/sci...0563/Babies-show-racial-bias-study-finds.html

The biggest advantage that AI could have is to be truly objective, something no human can achieve.
 
Aireoth said:
It really isn't a what if question, it is. We will never solve racism with today's current tactic, because it refuses to acknowledge that everyone is on some level racist due to deep rooted survival mechanisms, instinct, that says same as me is safe different from me is dangerous. In all fairness it was a very successful survival mechanism for millennium, we cannot expect to completely overturn biological instinct in a hundred years.

http://time.com/67092/baby-racists-survival-strategy/
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/sci...0563/Babies-show-racial-bias-study-finds.html

The biggest advantage that AI could have is to be truly objective, something no human can achieve.
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Its true you can't tell "institutionalized racism" ideology of SJW's from racial seperatism/supremacy ideology. I can't tell which you are?
 
jpm100 said:
Its true you can't tell "institutionalized racism" ideology of SJW's from racial seperatism/supremacy ideology. I can't tell which you are?
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The flaw in your argument is assuming their is only two alternatives. Both Racial supremacist's and SJW's promote racial segregation. Dr. King's solution of Integration suggests that racial differences are largely cultural and by integrating the sub-cultures, and joining together, we can come close to eliminating racial animosity.

It is important to realize that Dr. King's solution is mono-cultural. Dr. Samuel Huntington in "The Clash of Civilizations" suggests mono-cultural, multi-racial civilizations tend to be stable while mono-racial, multi-cultural civilizations tend to be unstable.
 
thejokker said:
The flaw in your argument is assuming their is only two alternatives. Both Racial supremacist's and SJW's promote racial segregation. Dr. King's solution of Integration suggests that racial differences are largely cultural and by integrating the sub-cultures, and joining together, we can come close to eliminating racial animosity.

It is important to realize that Dr. King's solution is mono-cultural. Dr. Samuel Huntington in "The Clash of Civilizations" suggests mono-cultural, multi-racial civilizations tend to be stable while mono-racial, multi-cultural civilizations tend to be unstable.
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Exactly, people make things too simplistic and we love binary options, black or white, SJW or CIS, attack or defend. Reality is not that simple, its a complex set of interactions that produces a huge range of outcomes, when we boil something down to x or y that is a part of our personal limitations, not a fact of reality.
 
thejokker said:
What if racism and sexism as is currently defined in popular culture represents behaviors that have adaptive properties which promotes survival?
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Well, they probably do. Historically if very different looking people showed up near your tribe it was probably bad news, more competition for food and women. Societies that naturally distrusted people who looked different presumably had a survival advantage.

Those same ingrained behaviors can obviously be confusing and harmful in our modern environment.
 
As a white man, I am uniquely positioned to tell all of you how racism and sexism simply do not exist! Let's all band together and form a club of asshole white men (with questionable ideas on things like 'equality') in order to spread our message of non-existent bias among all peoples. /s

Nice clickbait headline. Who gives a shit? What she's saying actually makes sense, and considering she's a post-doc in machine learning, she's a bit more well-positioned to make that claim than pretty much anyone on this forum. Bias is actually a statistical thing, it's not just something an 'SJW' made up.

Oh, but you wouldn't know that would you? Because for the most part, all you people do is blow smoke out your uninformed assholes.
 
Your own racism is noted as well as you opinion that academics are somehow superior and not "moderately smart damaged people". Why do you reject the teachings and solutions of Dr. King? You are on a tech board so you should understand the meaning of the word integration. Making excuses for not joining together into one culture seems to be your own personal way of blowing smoke out of your uninformed ass...
 
If you let your AI learn from the internet, it'll find 4chan and become a racist troll.

Just have the AI learn exclusively [H]ardforum GenMay....
 
thejokker said:
Your own racism is noted as well as you opinion that academics are somehow superior and not "moderately smart damaged people". Why do you reject the teachings and solutions of Dr. King? You are on a tech board so you should understand the meaning of the word integration. Making excuses for not joining together into one culture seems to be your own personal way of blowing smoke out of your uninformed ass...
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"lol"

Thanks for your comment. As someone who studies machine learning, I can tell you don't know jack about it. It's not about academics being superior, it's about us actually studying the shit we are talking about.

Feel free to comment on how deep neural nets learn and wax poetically about the nature of soft nonlinear activation functions and their use in back propagation. Or just shut the fuck up and let people who actually understand these systems have intelligent discussions without political hacks jumping in every 5 seconds.

This isn't a discussion about how HAL 9000 is only going to kill women and black people. It's a discussion on how machine learning algorithms are trained and the implicit bias of training data and target vectors. Oh wait, you probably don't know shit about that so I guess you can't really contribute the conversation. I don't tell you how clean bathrooms or do whatever the fuck it is you do. And, if I did, you'd be well within your rights to tell me to fuck off without me resorting to 'you blue collar workers think you're so high and mighty.'
 
Racism means discrimination against a group purely based on race.

What they're trying to call racist is discrimination against a group based on recorded facts and statistics.

The latter is not racism, it's common sense.
 
Powerage said:
"lol"

Thanks for your comment. As someone who studies machine learning, I can tell you don't know jack about it. It's not about academics being superior, it's about us actually studying the shit we are talking about.

Feel free to comment on how deep neural nets learn and wax poetically about the nature of soft nonlinear activation functions and their use in back propagation. Or just shut the fuck up and let people who actually understand these systems have intelligent discussions without political hacks jumping in every 5 seconds.

This isn't a discussion about how HAL 9000 is only going to kill women and black people. It's a discussion on how machine learning algorithms are trained and the implicit bias of training data and target vectors. Oh wait, you probably don't know shit about that so I guess you can't really contribute the conversation. I don't tell you how clean bathrooms or do whatever the fuck it is you do. And, if I did, you'd be well within your rights to tell me to fuck off without me resorting to 'you blue collar workers think you're so high and mighty.'
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I'm a Director of IT at a smaller SE Corporation so you can stow your arrogance and presumption of superiority. We are not talking about the technical and developmental aspects of AI but rather the conceptual application of that technology and the emerging unanticipated social consequences. Thankfully in America such things are publicly discussed and we only occasionally are we forced to deal with quasi-fascist elitists (sic) lecturing us to shut-up and comply with their superior (snicker) conclusions.

Maybe you should hold off posting on this subject until you complete your "studies" and have something relevant to add...
 
So, I'm racist and sexist?

This is typical liberal drivel. Everyone is "corrupt" and needs to be "cleansed" by the holy water of the SJW movement.

Go eff yourself.
 
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