Arnold passes the "violent" video game bill in California.

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Stiler

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http://pc.ign.com/articles/656/656998p1.html
October 7, 2005 - After a long process of campaigning, opposition, and legislative approval, a California bill which bans the sale of violent videogames to minors has been signed into law. On Friday, Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger approved the bill, which levies fines of up to $1000 for violations, and requires that mature games be clearly labeled as such.

"Today I signed legislation to ensure parent involvement in determining which video games are appropriate for their children," said Governor Schwarzenegger. "The bill I signed will require that violent video games be clearly labeled and not be sold to children under 18 years old. Many of these games are made for adults and choosing games that are appropriate for kids should be a decision made by their parents."

Assembly Bill 1179 was written and championed by Assemblyman Leland Yee, who has offered similar bills for several years now. Yee has maintained his interest is not in censoring or limiting the game industry, but in keeping minors from playing mature-themed games without parental consent.

Yee believes the interactive nature of videogames creates a unique danger. "Unlike movies where you passively watch violence, in a video game, you are the active participant and making decisions on who to stab, maim, burn or kill," he said. "As a result, these games serve as learning tools that have a dramatic impact on our children."

Opponents of the legislation, including the Interactive Entertainment Merchants Association (IEMA), an industry interest group, argue that the current ESRB rating system already identifies mature content in games and prevents sale of such games to minors. Opponents also maintain legislation like AB 1179 introduces regulates game media in ways that books, movies, and music are not, and see such laws as a challenge to First Amendment rights.

California is not only the nation's most populous state, but the primary home of the $31 billion videogame industry. AB 1179 will officially become law on January 1, 2006.
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Complete and utter bullshit if you ask me.

For those that don't know, the bill under-mines the ESRB.

Instead, they will now re-label what in their "opinons" are "violent" games, with MANY teen rated games such as fighting games, etc to now be "mature."

I don't know about you, but at the age of 10 I doubt games like street fighter and such harmed my "fragile" little mind...:rolleyes:

It's also filled with complete bullshit like:
"unlike movies where you passively watch violence, in a video game, you are the active participant and making decisions on who to stab, maim, burn or kill," he said. "As a result, these games serve as learning tools that have a dramatic impact on our children."

Seriously, I hope they can get this crap turned over.
 
well im 24, so this doesn't really affect me. unless it keeps some immature dorks from being on server i'm on if i play that game online. in that case, yeay!
 
Seriously lately everyone has lost their damn minds. Stop blaming everything else for you own problems and piss poor parenting. Arnold are you serious... cause didnt you make a living pretending for over half your life to kill people in spectacular and glorified ways? Its a good thing the war in Iraq is going so well or I might really be pissed off.
 
holybonkers said:
lol this coming from arnold, pure comedy i tell ya
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lol. Get in zee choppah!
It won't change things too much. The kids will find other ways of obtaining them.
 
hmm...i really dont care, Im 21, but it does suck for the youger kids! Even though the bill passed in cali, I do not think that it is going to make a diff in society! :rolleyes:
 
ferrisnox said:
Seriously lately everyone has lost their damn minds. Stop blaming everything else for you own problems and piss poor parenting. Arnold are you serious... cause didnt you make a living pretending for over half your life to kill people in spectacular and glorified ways? Its a good thing the war in Iraq is going so well or I might really be pissed off.
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It's the american way man! Now wasn't the ESRB rating just in there as a "guide" sort of thing that stores never really enforced? If they actually made it so kids 13 yo's couldn't buy M games that I think would be enough. If it forced you to bring your parent in to buy the game then all of this would totally be on parenting. (Which it is anyway)
 
You mean it's going to fall into my lap to make sure my little brothers have violent video games to play with me? Geez, what ever is this world coming to?
 
And so it starts.

Thats two states down for this rediculous law. Its now only a matter of time before the others follow suit.
 
Parents generally buy games for younger kids anyways.....so I don't know who this effects. My local target (In Jersey) actually asks for ID when buying games.
 
I get it now. There is no need to educate parents on m rated titles and why they shouldn't be sold to minors. Let's just pass a law so it can help politicans' political career.
 
california has been doing things like this for a while; vehicle emissions laws come to mind. the only reason why these bills are becoming law is because parents don't seem to be able to take responsibility for parenting their children nowadays... and the kids have to pay:(

edit: too slow, my point about parenting was stated by the previous two posters.
 
I was laughing so hard i think i may have dribbled a little pee.

What's the world coming to, seriously. When Arnold is passing "ledge" on the very thing that got him where he is today, violence. If he wasn't the Terminator he wouldn't be "da' Goobener".
On the flip side, he's trying to be a real politician, regardless of his personal feelings on the matter, which are probably different "Off the record", he was under pressure from others on this issue.

I would love to see a drastic decline in 12 year olds online, but at the same time, if there would have been online multiplayer when I was 12 i'd be playin.
 
What this means of course, is that kids need parental permission to play violent games. Of course this doesn’t really change anything at all. :rolleyes: Yay for another bill to keep politicians from addressing real issues.
 
Back when my mom had to buy me games, she would be like "Violence and Gore, Zach I really dont want you playing this" and then buy it for me(this is when I was like 15 or 16 but some dumbass at gamestop didnt want to sell me that game)

I remember I was 17 me and my mom were running errands and stuff we stopped by some game store I ran in and some idiot said I wasnt old enough to buy a M rated game, I had my drivers license and shit. So I go get my mom feeling like I just got bitch slapped and the prick has the never to read the "The game is rated Mature for violence Gore blah blah blah"


Only law should be dont let idiots hvae kids, yes I do think a 10 year old kid in general should not play GTA:SA and shit like that, there may be exceptions but comon 10 year old kids try to use karate on thier friends for a week after seeing a Jackie Chan movie. :p
 
wasnt it allready illegal to sell mature rated games to minors? instead of making new laws, we should enforce the laws currently on the books. this was a waste of time and redundent. apparently, we have nothing better to do with our time than double book laws.
 
Bo_Bice said:
well im 24, so this doesn't really affect me. unless it keeps some immature dorks from being on server i'm on if i play that game online. in that case, yeay!
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This line of thought is quite short sighted. Publishers will often cut content, dialoge, and occassioanlly entire portions of a game in order to avoid an M rating. In some cases, this is ok, but imagine being inable to do the inverted neck snap because someone thought it might teach children how to hang upside down and break eachother's necks, or nixed the ledge grab because it was deemed too gruesome.

Now consider dev has a really neat, completely original spy game idea, but CAN'T find a publisher for it, because the ideas seem like substantially BETTER learning devices for our children to practice murder/espionage.

It is what you DO NOT see because publishers won't foot the bill on untested IP that hurts us ALL. Not what we do see, but Jimmy isn't old enough to play.

What I find slightly ironic about many of these petitions that video games are 'worse' than movies, because they are interactive and thus are learning devices for children never seems to click with authorities that these damned things MIGHT just be making our children smarter, or perhaps COULD, if they didn't spend so much time trying to figure out how to crush the medium, instead of utilizing it. Mah. maybe the authorities just don't want the next generation to get any smarter.

Ah well. I haven't even read the bill. Maybe it provides a better solution than the ESRB has produced, so I can't comment directly. I'm still under the impression our society is just fucked, and parents are quite possibly the weakest link of our culture. Most of them are children pretending to be adults by isolating and even neglecting their children from exposure to the world, so the parents can keep going about their lives pretending to be more adult, while they insist the rest of society monitor, educate, and actually raise their offspring for them.
 
I think it's funny, Arnold should make a point to say "If any of you, whiners, little people, and or/retarded pedestrians think aboutze playing Grand theft auto games, I'll KILL YOUUU" whilst spinning his shotgun.
 
The esrb ratings are not and were not a law.

Just like the MPAA ratings for movies are not laws. They are both a voluntary based ratings board.

Many stores do card, for both movies and games, but some do not.

The problem with this bill is that it defines "Violent" games basically as : "any game in which the range of options available to a player includes killing, maiming, dismembering, or sexually assaulting an image of a human being."

It doesn't simply abide by the ESRB ratings for M games (which are 17+) with thier definitions , the "M" games under this law are 18 plus (which would be AO for the ESRB rating) and under this law many Teen rated games would be considered "Mature" games now. EVERY single FPS game with humans in it, period. The ones that don't show one drop of blood or anything, are now going to be "mature" and finable under this law.


Here's more from gamespot on it:
http://www.gamespot.com/news/6135332.html

Also it pisses me off that Yee is spreading lies like "violent games are teacing tools for kids to do these things," etc when if ANYONE would freaking look, violence in kids is DOWN NOT UP since video games have become more and more popular.

The media and parent whiny groups think games are causing violence, then why is violence in youth DOWN?
 
Kiggles said:
This line of thought is quite short sighted. Publishers will often cut content, dialoge, and occassioanlly entire portions of a game in order to avoid an M rating. In some cases, this is ok, but imagine being inable to do the inverted neck snap because someone thought it might teach children how to hang upside down and break eachother's necks, or nixed the ledge grab because it was deemed too gruesome.
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but isn't that the point of of different ratings? to make the separation of different-rated games more distinct? why would someone consider that an M rated game might teach children to do it if there was law prohibiting them from buying it? if anything after this law, the M games will become even more mature.
 
You're missing the point-

It isn't that games seem to make our children less violent, perhaps because they can work through their agressions in a digital medium, instead of upon one another, but rather that it TEACHES our children how to kill, maim, rape, rob, or break.[/sarcasm]

but isn't that the point of of different ratings? to make the separation of different-rated games more distinct? why would someone consider that an M rated game might teach children to do it if there was law prohibiting them from buying it? if anything after this law, the M games will become even more mature.
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Good point, but probably not. There is still a very strong stigma in our culture that video games are... well, games. Only the immature and children play games. Right now some 'mature' software can exist because many publishers out there believe they can exploit younger audiences like Mortal Kombat did. Once younger audiences are LEGALLY barred from buying 'mature' software, they will DEFFINITELY be reluctant to publish any software which will LEGALLY cut their potential audience by a fraction.

Now, again, you make a good point, but it just won't work that way. This is effectively censorship. It behooves us to censor as little as possible. Those the quality, on average, for 'mature' or comparably rated software might improve (less gimick gore, and more legitimate mature themes), that will not change the fact that A) the target audience is already reduced substantially, thus development funds will take a hit. B) There won't be as much 'mature' rated software out there. We enjoy a very hit or miss past time, and most of the time they are misses. If we cut any number of ideas before they are even on the drawing board, that means less hits. Maybe the ratio will even improve, but if we were looking at 2 or 3 hits a year (per platform) before, now we might be lucky to see even 1.

I do have to agree, inspite of my faceteousness, Games ARE very peculiar because we can interact with them, but it is because of that very aspect I really believe we should be very reluctant to censor, or take any action which remotely suggests censorship of this medium. It is a powerful tool, where assuming the role of a Nazi can be just as fun as shooting the Nazis. I don't want to see the potential in this medium die out because someone was afraid it might taint their neighbor's children.
 
Bo_Bice said:
but isn't that the point of of different ratings? to make the separation of different-rated games more distinct? why would someone consider that an M rated game might teach children to do it if there was law prohibiting them from buying it? if anything after this law, the M games will become even more mature.
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Many publishers see the $$$ more then the thought.

They see an "M" (18+ rating) that might sell ok, but then they see a lower rating that would have an audience much much more huge and a "potential" to reap a bigger profit based on the audience, often negelecting that the majority of gamers are adults these days. They think adults will enjoy it aswell, but so can kids and therefore it will have a bigger audience.

This is excatly what happens with movies, so many horror movies, etc get cut to a pg-13 rating instead of an R rating simply becuase "more people can buy/see it" overall then an R rating.
 
I can't wait for Mario to be rated as 18+ adult only in California, because the blatent racism and unbridled rage mario shows towards Koopas and Goombas by killing them.


OMFG MARIO IS A HATE CRIME OFFENDER! CALL THE SENATE, SHUT DOWN THE GOVERMENT, ITS THE END OF DAYS!
 
Komataguri said:
I can't wait for Mario to be rated as 18+ adult only in California, because the blatent racism and unbridled rage mario shows towards Koopas and Goombas by killing them.


OMFG MARIO IS A HATE CRIME OFFENDER! CALL THE SENATE, SHUT DOWN THE GOVERMENT, ITS THE END OF DAYS!
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Do it for the children!
 
Komataguri said:
I can't wait for Mario to be rated as 18+ adult only in California, because the blatent racism and unbridled rage mario shows towards Koopas and Goombas by killing them.


OMFG MARIO IS A HATE CRIME OFFENDER! CALL THE SENATE, SHUT DOWN THE GOVERMENT, ITS THE END OF DAYS!
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ROFL, that is hilarious!
 
I dont get why anyone is crying about this. Who does it hurt? NOBODY. It simply makes retailers responsible for their actions. It makes the ratings a law instead of a BS guideline.
Some retailers didn't give a rats ass what ESRB rating a game has. Ive seen kids buying GTA, and when I asked the guy at Software Etc if he was supposed to do that, he said it isn't against the law. Smaller mom and pop type stores sell everything but X rated stuff to just about anyone. So now maybe they wont do it.. Who knows? If a parent doesn't care about what their kids play, and many don't seem to, they will continue to buy these games for kids anyway; like the 85 year old grandma who wanted to sue Rockstar over the Hot Coffee mod, because she bought the game for her 14 year old grandson.
Or, maybe the clear markings required for the games will raise awareness.. Honestly, how many parents actually know to look for that little ESRB rectangle on the back of the box?
 
-freon- said:
I dont get why anyone is crying about this. Who does it hurt? NOBODY. It simply makes retailers responsible for their actions. It makes the ratings a law instead of a BS guideline.
Some retailers didn't give a rats ass what ESRB rating a game has. Ive seen kids buying GTA, and when I asked the guy at Software Etc if he was supposed to do that, he said it isn't against the law. Smaller mom and pop type stores sell everything but X rated stuff to just about anyone. So now maybe they wont do it.. Who knows? If a parent doesn't care about what their kids play, and many don't seem to, they will continue to buy these games for kids anyway; like the 85 year old grandma who wanted to sue Rockstar over the Hot Coffee mod, because she bought the game for her 14 year old grandson.
Or, maybe the clear markings required for the games will raise awareness.. Honestly, how many parents actually know to look for that little ESRB rectangle on the back of the box?
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Who does it hurt?

IMO, everyone. It's another law that is taking away a freedom we all have by restricting us.

I say get rid of the law and make parents more responsible for their children. Raise pay, lower taxes make life more affordable so that one parent can stay home and raise their children.

THE TV IS NOT A PARENT!!!
 
-freon- said:
I dont get why anyone is crying about this. Who does it hurt? NOBODY. It simply makes retailers responsible for their actions. It makes the ratings a law instead of a BS guideline.
Some retailers didn't give a rats ass what ESRB rating a game has. Ive seen kids buying GTA, and when I asked the guy at Software Etc if he was supposed to do that, he said it isn't against the law. Smaller mom and pop type stores sell everything but X rated stuff to just about anyone. So now maybe they wont do it.. Who knows? If a parent doesn't care about what their kids play, and many don't seem to, they will continue to buy these games for kids anyway; like the 85 year old grandma who wanted to sue Rockstar over the Hot Coffee mod, because she bought the game for her 14 year old grandson.
Or, maybe the clear markings required for the games will raise awareness.. Honestly, how many parents actually know to look for that little ESRB rectangle on the back of the box?
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So do you feel the same way about movies?

The mpaa ratings are not laws and stores are not "Required" to card for them.
 
Bo_Bice said:
well im 24, so this doesn't really affect me. unless it keeps some immature dorks from being on server i'm on if i play that game online. in that case, yeay!
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No more "leet kewl" dorks! :D :D
 
Moose777 said:
Who does it hurt?

IMO, everyone. It's another law that is taking away a freedom we all have by restricting us.

I say get rid of the law and make parents more responsible for their children. Raise pay, lower taxes make life more affordable so that one parent can stay home and raise their children.

THE TV IS NOT A PARENT!!!
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It is a sad day when the American goverment, either local, state, or federal, has to pass frivilous laws instead of nipping the problem in the bud, That is parents not monitoring their children.


I mean, afterall, Its not a parents job to raise a kid...its the goverments job. So lets pass stupid laws! Entering a bathroom that is occupied by a minor is now a Felony with up to 15 years in prison as punishment, Using a naughty word? 500 hours of community service, Having underage sex? Oh boy, That theres the death penalty!
 
Komataguri said:
It is a sad day when the American goverment, either local, state, or federal, has to pass frivilous laws instead of nipping the problem in the bud, That is parents not monitoring their children.


I mean, afterall, Its not a parents job to raise a kid...its the goverments job. So lets pass stupid laws! Entering a bathroom that is occupied by a minor is now a Felony with up to 15 years in prison as punishment, Using a naughty word? 500 hours of community service, Having underage sex? Oh boy, That theres the death penalty!
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I totally agree with you.

This country is getting rediculous with all the rules, regulations, laws. This "system" is doing nothing more than suppressing it's people which feed fires that will eventually led to a revolt.

This government had seriously take a look at it's own people and discontinue it's obsessive concern with the world and it's opinion. The United States's people are calling for recognition and a government to listen to them and it's falling on deaf ears.
 
As a parent of a teenager, I have to say I look forward to a simmilar law being passed in Ohio. Why? Because my 14 year old daughter does have her own money, called allowance (not free, she does chores to earn it). I don't want her going out to see rated "R" movies that me or my wife haven't said she's allowed to see (depending on their content), but since the movie theater actualy cards for those movies, even though they're not required to, I don't worry about it too much. As for video games, I myself am a heavy gamer, and I've seen the 10-12 year old kids buying games like GTA & Postal, & the clerks & managers at those stores (unlike the movie theater's) don't give a rats ass what they sell to who, as long as the store gets the money for the game, they're happy. The ESRB is completely meaningless unless the individual stores enforce these ratings. A law like this forces them to take the ratings seriously & take responsibility for the products they're selling which is just a good moral buisness standpoint to take anyway.
 
I would think if you were a strict, but good parent, Then the kid wouldn't violate your trust by going behind your back.



Like my Aunt, Very strict, but very fair. And her kids don't go behind her back and do what htey are not supposed to do, even when I encourage them otherwise.


Which is a good thing.
 
I read the bill, doesn't seem like that big a deal. I thought that stores, even before this bill, were not supose to sell mature rated games to minors.
 
I have to agree with Sheldron. This doesn't seem like such a bad thing. True that in an ideal situation the child would make the right decisions, everyone would respect everyone else, we would dance in flower fields and sing kumbya. We would have no need for laws, and everything would take care of itself. Unfortunately it doesn't work that way, so people have to turn to the government to crush stupidity with stupidity. It just goes in the box with tobacco, alcohol, pr0n, movies, and voting.
 
Nobody cares about this crap anymore. All I know is, i'm 19, and I can buy any game I want, and I won't go out and try to kill someone after I do so.
 
Lame imo. It won't really change anything.

I would agree with a low restricting stores from selling M/AO titles to minors, it wouldn't change much overall but it's how a responsible store would act already.
 
Everyone who says this doesn't really affect anyone because they (suck and) are over 18, picture this:

You're in high school, and you want to see a movie. I probably wasn't alive back when you were a teenager or I was still crapping in diapers, so let's just say you wanted to go see Ace Ventura (hey, it was on TV today :p). In that movie (Pet Detective), Ace gets 2 spears thrown at him, and even though it's funny and Ace doesn't really get hurt, you can't see the movie without someone else over 18 because the state you're watching this movie in thinks that your mind will be corrupted and you'll start throwing spears at anyone you see because it's funny.

Now that example was about a movie (which obviously taints your mind much less than the games), but what about actual games? Remember that really good game, The Legend of Zelda? In Arizona it may be rated E for everyone, but here in California, this game has the potential to make you start swinging swords and throwing bombs at other people. If you want this game you'll have to either have someone over 18 buy it for you or get it elsewhere, such as from a 6 year old who is legally allowed to buy it in Arizona.

You may just say 'What's another year for those little brats? They need to learn to wait sometime.' How would you have liked not being able to drive for another year in high school? How would you have liked to not be able to drink (legally, duh) until you were 21 (or 19 if you're from Canada)? How would it feel to have to wait another year to get a piece of software/hardware/etc. that you have the money already saved up for, but it's not legal for you to buy it? For all you boomers, what's another year of waiting for retirement?

Eventually my parents should come around and realize that I've played hundreds of hours of CS, Diablo2, Farcry, etc. that I got as gifts, and have not yet shot anyone or made any living animal explode into a pile of blood and guts. Until then, If I have to, I'll just get other people at my high school to buy the games for me, or even go drive over to Arizona once I get my license and buy the next Zelda over there because it won't be legal for me to buy it under the law my Governator so stupidly signed.

For those who think this means nothing, these laws are setting precedents to let the government to control more and more of your life, wether you like it or not. There could have been a lot more time spent fixing California like the legislators are supposed to be getting paid for doing, if the new law was simply a $1000 fine for selling an M-rated game to someone under 17. Short, simple, to the point, and the ratings system is already in place. As for the ESRB rating games appropriately, if Titanic were a game with all the naughtiness as the movie, it would be rated AO. If Return of the Sith: the game was as graphic as the movie, it would be rated M.

Jack Thompson could probably get more money and innocent verdicts by correctly blaming/suing the parents of the messed up kids who play GTA for a minute in a store and say it caused them to blow up the police station.
 
rowbear62468 said:
wasnt it allready illegal to sell mature rated games to minors? instead of making new laws, we should enforce the laws currently on the books. this was a waste of time and redundent. apparently, we have nothing better to do with our time than double book laws.
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..we live in a time of disposable laws/legislation ... they need to start coming on a little paper towel roll or something so it'll be easier to get to the next one.
 
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