Army Trying New Recruitment Tactic – Interactive Centers

[Terry Olaes]

Seeing the success of interactive sites such as Apple stores and the ESPN Zone, the US Army is planning to unveil a pilot concept interactive recruitment center in late August. Using simulators with full-scale mock-ups of Army equipment and even a gaming area featuring America’s Army, a 2002 FPS that doubled as a recruitment tool, the Army hopes to appeal to a generation that no longer depends on traditional media outlets and boost recruitment numbers. Is it me or are you equally surprised at the Major’s title below: Marketing Exec? Wow, how times have changed.

"The modeling command and control systems are like those used in Iraq," said Maj. Larry Dillard, U.S. Army marketing exec. The Apache simulator allows a pilot and co-pilot to experience the aircraft and its weapons systems. The Black Hawk helicopter simulator provides four door gunner positions. And, the armored HMMWV vehicle simulator has positions for a driver and several gunners.

 

[Night Black]

Seeing the success of interactive sites such as Apple stores and the ESPN Zone, the US Army is planning to unveil a pilot concept interactive recruitment center in late August. Using simulators with full-scale mock-ups of Army equipment and even a gaming area featuring America’s Army, a 2002 FPS that doubled as a recruitment tool, the Army hopes to appeal to a generation that no longer depends on traditional media outlets and boost sagging enlistment numbers. Is it me or are you equally surprised at the Major’s title below: Marketing Exec? Wow, how times have changed.

Doesn't really surprise me. Recruitment must be suffering as of late, and you gotta change or you die.

The Forces up here in Canada now use simulators to qualify reserve soldiers before they get to go to a live firing range. Basically, C7 rifle with external gas connection to cycle, no rounds or anything. Soldiers fire at a screen, laser notes where they shot, computer keeps count of what they do and forces them to reload when needed. Cool system.

 

[next-Jin]

Nothing wrong with it imo. Then again it's this same reason we get young soldiers in the Army who question why they have to go to Iraq/Afghanistan, etc. You give all these cool things to kids with promises of education and adventure which is fine. Just make damn sure you tell them the facts, which current recruiters do not do. (I got picked up for recruiting but luckily got out of it) 90% of the recruiters on the street did not want to do recruiting. Recruiting is viewed by many soldiers as committing "Career Suicide" which basically holds true with the exception of a few major cities where people just walk right in and you do not have to do anything other than sign the forms.

 

[velusip]

Like all survival tactics, in an elevated society they become an entertainment industry.

 

[dagas]

The soldiers of WWI thought war would be awesome there were celebrations all over Europe, hurray we are going to war!. Surprise, surprise! It's not! It's not as bad for American soldiers today though with all their fancy gear, but it's still war it's still about killing people, about getting killed, about seeing your friends die. It's a lot harder to get people enthusiastic for war these days although not too much harder. Most people still think it will be great until several years later they wonder WTF happened.

 

[PynkFloydd]

The "army marketing exec" example is a sad reality that has slowly been taking place over the last 20-ish years. I served most of my time in a line unit within the 82nd Airborne.

I enlisted in 1998 and noticed that the army was shifting their focus from performance to business. During my time, I noticed that the army's goal was purely numbers and achieving the minimum standards in performance. I saw a lot of disappointing things in the military (low standards, rewarding the weak obedient soldiers while punishing the best that were a little wild, people in charge that had no business being in charge, etc.) but, the bureacracy was the worst. I guess you could compare what's happened to Hollywood over this same time period with the army.

You put a bunch of businessmen in charge of a system that requires quality instead of quantity and it goes down the drain. I expect more desperate attempts to market the army in the near future...

 

[PynkFloydd]

It's not as bad for American soldiers today though with all their fancy gear,

Fancy gear? lol Where?!?!!??! Serving in the military isn't the same as the video games that you see... (at least in the infantry units where I have been) You get the same rucksacks that the military has been using since the 70's, the same rifle that's been in service since the 60's (a little modified) and the same Kevlar helmet that's been around since the 80's or so. We still used the same parachutes from the 70's! (seriously, these things have issue dates stamped on them) Even in special ops, there's not much "fancy gear".

Most of the land warrior systems and what not are in test units of perhaps around 50-100ish soldiers. They advertise, I mean..."release stories" on them to gain support amongst the public for integration. Trust me, nothing negative would get out about them because all stories (with interviews) are filtered through Public Relations officers. Most units detest these systems because you have to deal with:

-added weight (full combat load with ruck was around 150-180ish pounds plus body weight)

-battery problems (batteries don't last forever...you can only charge a limited amount at a time in the middle of nowhere and each lithium battery carried weighs around 5ish pounds)

-sensitive item losses (you don't just walk away after losing a $20,000 piece of equipment, you walk the area until you find it)

-extensive training to kids that aren't really technology friendly

-durability and replacement funds (the army and each unit doesn't have unlimited funds...everyone is on a budget for each quarter)

The only proven weapon and "fancy gear" are well-trained and fit soldiers.

 

[impaler]

are there watching-my-friend's-legs-get-blown-off and PTSD simulators?

 

[xBanzai89]

In war time there is always sagging numbers. Yet if I'm not mistaken WW2 saw a huge enlistment even though there was a war due to Pearl Harbor.

 

[next-Jin]

The "army marketing exec" example is a sad reality that has slowly been taking place over the last 20-ish years. I served most of my time in a line unit within the 82nd Airborne.

I enlisted in 1998 and noticed that the army was shifting their focus from performance to business. During my time, I noticed that the army's goal was purely numbers and achieving the minimum standards in performance. I saw a lot of disappointing things in the military (low standards, rewarding the weak obedient soldiers while punishing the best that were a little wild, people in charge that had no business being in charge, etc.) but, the bureacracy was the worst. I guess you could compare what's happened to Hollywood over this same time period with the army.

You put a bunch of businessmen in charge of a system that requires quality instead of quantity and it goes down the drain. I expect more desperate attempts to market the army in the near future...

The Army is a big place mate and while I wil agree with you on 90% of what you said
not every unit is the same. My first unit was absolutely terrible, and I was planing on getting out after OIF 1 but after seeing a good unit with good leadership and good soldiers I stayed in. I realized that if you want things to change you have to change it yourself and make the soldiers/NCO's under you not go through the same things you or I have. Thats the main reason I am actually staying in.

Funny enough my 1SG from my first unit always said "It's just business".... mf'er it's the Army not a business. And yea I'm still carrying around the vietnam rucksack and M16, well I was till I got to my current special duty assignment.

 

[SamuraiInBlack]

In war time there is always sagging numbers. Yet if I'm not mistaken WW2 saw a huge enlistment even though there was a war due to Pearl Harbor.

That's because we gave a damn about our country then. Today we show we care by buying an American flag, and sticking it on our Toyotas and Hondas.

 

[next-Jin]

That's because we gave a damn about our country then. Today we show we care by buying an American flag, and sticking it on our Toyotas and Hondas.

+1 I could not agree more so than what you just said, patriotism is more than sticking an american flag on the front porch and watching fox news.

 

[PynkFloydd]

The Army is a big place mate and while I wil agree with you on 90% of what you said
not every unit is the same. My first unit was absolutely terrible, and I was planing on getting out after OIF 1 but after seeing a good unit with good leadership and good soldiers I stayed in. I realized that if you want things to change you have to change it yourself and make the soldiers/NCO's under you not go through the same things you or I have. Thats the main reason I am actually staying in.

Funny enough my 1SG from my first unit always said "It's just business".... mf'er it's the Army not a business. And yea I'm still carrying around the vietnam rucksack and M16, well I was till I got to my current special duty assignment.

Definitely true. I think a lot has to do with the standards in leadership. When I first arrived to my unit, we had real soldiers and real leadership. You did your job, you were rewarded and every now and again a head was turned to allow you to relieve stress. ...you know "work hard, play hard" but, we all loved our job. After leadership changed, we got a platoon sergeant whose idea of PT was going on profile and screaming commands through the window of the NCO room. He cared more about how startched your uniform was as opposed to performance. Somewhere in between we had a special ops guy that you couldn't even find....and not that "sshhh, I'm sneaking up on the enemy" kind of stealth. ...you just start thinking, "wow...I'm supposed to rely on these guys when the bullets start flying?" ...and our unit was supposed to be one of the best that the army had to offer!

I can't comment how it is currently but, it'll take people like you to give people pride and trust to want to enlist/reup. You hear things like the latest Air Force disaster (with misplacing the nukes, etc.) and there's no amount of marketing that would make people want to risk their lives under that kind of command. Much respect to you, we need good people staying in!

 

[Manaknight]

yep its standing up to your government gone wrong...

enlistment #s sag because at this point very few americans support the war (even the conservatives). It's hard to get someone to sign up with the pay they get, knowing full well they are going to get shipped out to a very dangerous situation.

I don't blame them...and i've personally kept friends from joining when they had an inkling to. I fully support the troops that are already there, and i support them more by agreeing that its time to come home

i remember for a while back when we were going into afghanistan, i seriously thought about joining up...then i realized something...the first time a drill instructor would yell at me i would probably punch him, get into a huge brawl (and probably get my ass kicked) and arrested... at that point I accepted the fact that i don't take orders very well and moved on with my life.

 

[xX_Jack_Carver_Xx]

I take issue with the 2002 video game comment in the article. America's Army has continually been updated and is very current. Based on UT technology, it will progress as UT does.

And I enjoy playing it from time to time, as I have since it was in open beta.

I dont see ANY simulator ever being able to get close to real battle conditions, other than letting you inexpensively get rot repetitive training on basic concepts, the real world is the only way to get real experience.

That's why Seargents are so important.

 

[Manaknight]

i think thats why i get so jaded about it.

its all simulation. But that doesn't prepare you for what happens out there, watching someone you know or are friends with die is very harsh. I have friends who came back from active duty with many issues. They all said that nothing could have prepared them for it. It hurts seeing how changed some of them were.

 

[jaxstraww]

Problem is a kid in actual combat will think he can respawn after 30 seconds.........

 

[DemonDiablo]

sagging enlistment numbers.

Couldnt help but to catch that. All 4 service branches are well ahead of their targeted enlistment numbers for the year. Heck most of them are going to, if not already, reach their targets for the end of the year by the end of the third quarter.

 

[next-Jin]

Problem is a kid in actual combat will think he can respawn after 30 seconds.........

lmao we was taking fire once and one of the soldiers looked pretty tense and he knew I played PC Games so I started screaming "Where the fuck is my mouse, goddamn it someone get me my keyboard and mouse!" all the time running back and forth down the wall, pretty much the whole squad started rolling. It wasent anything serious but the guy was brand new in country, much less the Army.

 

[DemonDiablo]

That's because we gave a damn about our country then. Today we show we care by buying an American flag, and sticking it on our Toyotas and Hondas.

+1

lol to funny, to sad, and to true.

And i dont see what the big deal is with the whole "business model". You adapt or you die.

 

[HardOCP News]

Couldnt help but to catch that. All 4 service branches are well ahead of their targeted enlistment numbers for the year. Heck most of them are going to, if not already, reach their targets for the end of the year by the end of the third quarter.

Yeah, that was an unfortunate comment, enlistment for our all voluntary military is huge. While the perception the media likes to give off is that the country is facing "sagging numbers" what they are basing that on is Recruiting statistics. I can't find the 2008 numbers (probably too early to tell) but the 2007 numbers are:

07 Recruiting Statistics

BRANCH..........ENLISTED.....GOAL.....PERCENTAGE

Army .......80,407.......80,000......101

Navy .......37,361.....37,000.....101

Marines .......35,603.....35,576.....100

Air Force .......27,801.....27,801.....100

Nat.Guard .......66,652.....70,000.....95

Army Res. .......35,734.....35,505 .....101

Navy Res. .......10,627.....10,602.....100

Marine Res. .......7,959.....7,256.....110

Air Force Res. .......7,110.....6,834.....104


So, while the Army may be "missing its goal" this year, that is hardly a crisis. What the article is attempting to illustrate is that the Army is now trying different recruiting methods as opposed to the age old ones we've been using.

The new numbers may be worse than last year's number posted above but remember, when you project 70,000 and you only get 60,000....it may sound bad on paper but the truth is you have 60,000 people signing up...it's not like NO ONE is signing up over 311,000 people enlisted in the armed forces las year.

 

[Terry Olaes]

Sagging was probably too strong of a term. I've revised the article to reflect recruitment numbers, as the original article alludes to a decrease in new recruits. My apologies for any misunderstandings.

The effort comes as the number of new recruits for the active Army decreased minimally last year, per the Dept. of Defense.

 

[srangara]

In war time there is always sagging numbers. Yet if I'm not mistaken WW2 saw a huge enlistment even though there was a war due to Pearl Harbor.

It's amazing what kind of enlistment numbers you get when there's a draft.

 

[HardOCP News]

It's amazing what kind of enlistment numbers you get when there's a draft.

Yeah, but back then there was a sense of honor / pride fighting for your country. People would even LIE about their age to join the Military to fight the enemy. If you were left behind there was a sense of shame you weren't doing your part. Women did their part by taking over their husbands factory jobs while they were away etc. etc. etc.

There is hardly any of that left anymore. People today want to enjoy the freedoms our country provides but have little idea what it takes to provide those freedoms.

People talk long smack on the military now, cry about fighting wars that aren't ours and so on....but the truth be told, we've always been the defender of the free world (WWII is a great example) and even though 95% of the countries we SAVED from being lost in WWII hate our guts today and talk trash about us "filth Americans" they wouldn't even be there today if not for us. And....if they were attacked tomorrow, we would go to their aid again.

So yeah, it is "It's amazing what kind of enlistment numbers you get when there's a draft" the United States has the LARGEST all volunteer military in the world, always have.

 

[legendz411]

It's amazing what kind of enlistment numbers you get when there's a draft.

Haha

 

[Vashypooh]

I think the thing is back in WW2 people felt they were actually fighting for something to make the world a better place.

Now when you ask that same question of what are we fighting for you are greeted with so many answers to the point of I don't think anyone even really knows what we are fighting for anymore.

Society has given up on America and became sheep. Over the past few years we have just became more and more passive and just take everything in the ass and say thank you sir, may I have another.

We have fallen from our roots, and in my opinion need to get back on track. When was the last time a people took to the streets has happened over something the government has done recently. It just doesn't happen. Look at the french, their government screws with anything of theirs and they will be in the streets within the hour.

When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty. -Thomas Jefferson.

 

[oROEchimaru]

when do you get to experience what its like to be the...

cook, the toilette bowl cleaner, the guy that sweeps sand out your shit, the laundry dude...

 

[srangara]

Yeah, but back then there was a sense of honor / pride fighting for your country. People would even LIE about their age to join the Military to fight the enemy. If you were left behind there was a sense of shame you weren't doing your part. Women did their part by taking over their husbands factory jobs while they were away etc. etc. etc.

There is hardly any of that left anymore. People today want to enjoy the freedoms our country provides but have little idea what it takes to provide those freedoms.

People talk long smack on the military now, cry about fighting wars that aren't ours and so on....but the truth be told, we've always been the defender of the free world (WWII is a great example) and even though 95% of the countries we SAVED from being lost in WWII hate our guts today and talk trash about us "filth Americans" they wouldn't even be there today if not for us. And....if they were attacked tomorrow, we would go to their aid again.

So yeah, it is "It's amazing what kind of enlistment numbers you get when there's a draft" the United States has the LARGEST all volunteer military in the world, always have.

Too much opinion and extrapolation here. Not enough evidence.

I'm pretty sure, for example, that there was no U.S. All-Volunteer force before Nixon created it in 1973. So "always have" loses some heft compared to, say, India.

 

[SilverSliver]

As soon as I can safely sit behind a computer screen and drive around a robot spewing death and destruction, sign me up.

 

[HardOCP News]

Too much opinion and extrapolation here. Not enough evidence.

I'm pretty sure, for example, that there was no U.S. All-Volunteer force before Nixon created it in 1973. So "always have" loses some heft compared to, say, India.

You know exactly what I was saying, there has never been a requirement for mandatory military service in this country. We have always had a volunteer Army, the draft has only been used in times of need. Yes, there is the Selctive Service in case there ever was a draft but, as you pointed out, there hasn't been a draft since Nixon. Charles Rangle tried to get a bill passed to bring back the draft but that's about it.

There are many countries that require military service, our country isn't one of them.

The people that defend our country do it voluntarily and that is one of the things we love and respect about our men and women in uniform.

 

[DemonDiablo]

Thanks Steve for those numbers and Terry for the amendment.

 

[srangara]

You know exactly what I was saying, there has never been a requirement for mandatory military service in this country. We have always had a volunteer Army, the draft has only been used in times of need. Yes, there is the Selctive Service in case there ever was a draft but, as you pointed out, there hasn't been a draft since Nixon. Charles Rangle tried to get a bill passed to bring back the draft but that's about it.

There are many countries that require military service, our country isn't one of them.

The people that defend our country do it voluntarily and that is one of the things we love and respect about our men and women in uniform.

You can be as proud as you want about the American Armed Forces. I am a scientist and would rather leave the rhetoric out of it.

My argument is that you cannot compare enrollment numbers in draft years with enrollment numbers in non-draft years.

Further, I would go so far as to say you cannot compare the dedication of troops during draft years (where a Pat Tillman lurked in every platoon) with that of troops during non-draft years (where the vast majority of enlisted men and women are economically disadvantaged).

 

[Monkey God]

You can be as proud as you want about the American Armed Forces. I am a scientist and would rather leave the rhetoric out of it.

Further, I would go so far as to say you cannot compare the dedication of troops during draft years (where a Pat Tillman lurked in every platoon) with that of troops during non-draft years (where the vast majority of enlisted men and women are economically disadvantaged).

Pat Tillman volunteered, during non-draft years. What point were you trying to make?
Also, whats with the economic disadvantage thing? Most people go in to learn a skill, to get money for college or just because its a career they want. As a "scientist" you should be careful of letting your opinions be portrayed as facts.

Most of the people I knew when is served wanted to learn a skill, make decent money with little expenses and get money for college. Only a handful were there because "I had to choose between jail or bootcamp" or because "I was broke as shit"

 

[next-Jin]

when do you get to experience what its like to be the...

cook, the toilette bowl cleaner, the guy that sweeps sand out your shit, the laundry dude...

Hey now all of those jobs are pretty much covered in every MOS in the Army. We make every soldier do those things now adays , builds character

 

[Monkey God]

Hey now all of those jobs are pretty much covered in every MOS in the Army. We make every soldier do those things now adays , builds character

No shit, the worst part about Boot was KP.
13 mile forced march? No worries. Guard duty all night? Fun!
KP? KILL ME NOW

 

[srangara]

Pat Tillman volunteered, during non-draft years. What point were you trying to make?
Also, whats with the economic disadvantage thing? Most people go in to learn a skill, to get money for college or just because its a career they want. As a "scientist" you should be careful of letting your opinions be portrayed as facts.

Most of the people I knew when is served wanted to learn a skill, make decent money with little expenses and get money for college. Only a handful were there because "I had to choose between jail or bootcamp" or because "I was broke as shit"

I think you misread my post. My point in mentioning Mr. Tillman was that the draft resulted in a higher proportion of high-profile recruits than could reasonably be expected in a non-draft war year. That sounds like opinion, but I have no particular bias.

Pat Tillman (and to a lesser extent Prince Harry) is a modern standout when compared to the likes of... well, just peruse this list: http://www.answers.com/topic/celebrities-who-served-in-wwii. (Note: you will have to mentally filter out the names of people who became celebrities after serving.)

But forget the celebrities. The armed forces have their own definition of what they consider to be High Quality candidates. I am not inventing facts here--check out the National Priorities Project's conclusions about the 2007 numbers quoted in this thread:

Wealthier neighborhoods remain under-represented

In 2007, upper-middle and high-income neighborhoods – those with median household incomes of $60,000 and greater – remained under-represented. The representation of these neighborhoods declined compared to 2004. Low- and middle-income neighborhoods – those with median household incomes of between $30,000 and $54,999 – became more over-represented compared to 2004. As the Iraq War continues for almost five years, the burden continues to be borne by low- and middle-income neighborhoods. See Graph.

Economically disadvantaged != Michael Moore portrayal of "broke as shit".

OK, lab coat off. Thank you for serving, sir.

 

[Monkey God]

I think you misread my post. My point in mentioning Mr. Tillman was that the draft resulted in a higher proportion of high-profile recruits than could reasonably be expected in a non-draft war year. That sounds like opinion, but I have no particular bias.

Pat Tillman (and to a lesser extent Prince Harry) is a modern standout when compared to the likes of... well, just peruse this list: http://www.answers.com/topic/celebrities-who-served-in-wwii. (Note: you will have to mentally filter out the names of people who became celebrities after serving.)

But forget the celebrities. The armed forces have their own definition of what they consider to be High Quality candidates. I am not inventing facts here--check out the National Priorities Project's conclusions about the 2007 numbers quoted in this thread:



Economically disadvantaged != Michael Moore portrayal of "broke as shit".

OK, lab coat off. Thank you for serving, sir.

OK thanks for explain the Pat Tillman point, I get it now.

However, your last comment about "wealthy" areas under represented. That doesn't mean "broke as shit". To me it means, just not "rich".

If I was rich, I wouldn't have gone into the Army to learn how to fly helicopters. Mommy and Daddy could have paid for $100K worth of flight training for me. That doesn't mean my family was "economically challenged" it just means we weren't stupidly rich. That was MY point.

 

[Romale23]

i dunno about y'all but most well off people who i know that join the army dont last very long, too weak because most of them didn't hafta earn things growing up

 

[PynkFloydd]

I am a scientist and would rather leave the rhetoric out of it.

Further, I would go so far as to say you cannot compare the dedication of troops during draft years (where a Pat Tillman lurked in every platoon) with that of troops during non-draft years (where the vast majority of enlisted men and women are economically disadvantaged).

I'd like to see your data there. You're basing your opinion on assumtions. In my unit alone, I'd estimate that only about 2 in 50 were from "economically disadvantaged" households. ...this is based on personal experience and actually knowing the people. In my unit, around 5 out of 50ish were from very, very, very wealthy households. I'd say that the majority are middle class. This was Fort Bragg and Fort Benning. A majority of the people were proud to be there. I can't speak for the rest of the army.

At an average starting salary of less than $20k for enlisted and around $30k for officers (someone with a 4yr degree), most people aren't looking at the money.

 

[KrylonArt]

Doesn't really surprise me. Recruitment must be suffering as of late, and you gotta change or you die.

The Forces up here in Canada now use simulators to qualify reserve soldiers before they get to go to a live firing range. Basically, C7 rifle with external gas connection to cycle, no rounds or anything. Soldiers fire at a screen, laser notes where they shot, computer keeps count of what they do and forces them to reload when needed. Cool system.

Same thing the Army uses: Engagement Skills Trainer, we use this system at Fort Carson in place of the NBC fire portion of a range as well as the night fire portion.