Are you guys still buying Intel CPU's inspite of Meltdown/Spectre ?

GotNoRice

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I will continue to buy whatever CPU gives me better performance for my needs. I'd love nothing more than a repeat of the Athlon/Opteron days but i'm not going to choose a slower AMD chip over a faster Intel chip for ethical reasons or any nonsense like that.
 

juanrga

Pro-Intel / Anti-AMD Just FYI
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I wouldn't touch any Intel CPU until they fix the CPU on the hardware level.

We haven't seen any Malware yet based off Spectre and Meltdown. So right now shit has not hit the fan yet....
It is coming



If you are a user worried about the possibility of getting hacks or Malware, I hate to say it, go with AMD. There only issue was Spectre Varient-1 and that was a software fix.

But wait until Intel releases proper CPU's IMO.
AMD is affected by both variants of Spectre

http://developer.amd.com/wordpress/media/2013/12/Managing-Speculation-on-AMD-Processors.pdf

And AMD already announced changes to silicon on Zen2 to deal with Spectre.
 

atarione

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nope.

sitting on a i7-4770k here... ain't buying nothing till procs are fixed (probably going w/ AMD ) and until video card prices are not so jacked up...

i was going to upgrade this year.. but now I'm not sure it maybe next year now.
 

thebufenator

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I do not think that there have been any exploits in the wild. The vulnerability exists but noone has created and released an exploit to take advantage of it. Most importantly, nothing remotely executable. Not saying it won't happen, but I haven't seen that anyone is affected by this. Yet.

exploit right there.
 

Khahhblaab

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exploit right there.
I wonder if anybody has figured out a way to gang / serverfarm 100 raspberries? :confused::cool::sneaky:

bah. I still like Intel cpus even if performance takes a hit.

Antivirus had better figure out a way to exploit the probability of spectre - since its a class specific intrusion - and kill the hack.

Performance loss from a AV engine constantly reading for it is more acceptable than microcode that makes a new CPU act like it was made two or more nodes ago.

....but....then.......

IMHO.
 
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Yeah, I decided to upgrade to coffee lake. I wasn't going to wait around for a fix. I upgrade every few years anyway.
 

Hagrid

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I was going to buy AMD but I got a 7700k, MB, corsair 110i, 32gb 3200 ram for 450. So I guess I will have a buggy sidegrade/upgrade?
 

No3DaleFan

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Back when the reports first said AMD wasn't affected by this, I went ahead and pulled the trigger on a Ryzen 1700 system, complete with $200 worth of DDR4. :( Oh well, my 2700K will go into another system, and I had been wanting to try the AMD anyway.
 

brentsg

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Performance loss from a AV engine constantly reading for it is more acceptable than microcode that makes a new CPU act like it was made two or more nodes ago.
I mean I guess if it's any consolation, those CPUs actually made 2 nodes ago are performing like they were made 4 nodes ago.
 

Shintai

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Shintai

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They still sell Intel chips with that Meltdown feature as well.
Yes and AMD sells bugged CPUs too. There is just a difference between a chip you have to RMA to get a working one and one where the fix is done via software/microcode. Remember to update your AMD microcode too for Spectre ;)
 

Gideon

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Yes and AMD sells bugged CPUs too. There is just a difference between a chip you have to RMA to get a working one and one where the fix is done via software/microcode. Remember to update your AMD microcode too for Spectre ;)
Hey at least that AMD doesn't overheat at stock speeds like them 7700K's do, but don't worry Intel will tell you thats normal. Hope you didnt install those Intel patches that make your machine reboot and unstable, I heard they had to recall that patch. Here is a lesson for ya since you like to cheerlead for Intel, don't throw stones when you live in a glass house.
 

twzTechman

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I have been planning an upgrade for quit awhile. After pricing everything out, I went with a Dell Alienware with an 8700k. Excluding laptops, this is the first PC I have bought (not built) in 20 plus years. I do have mixed feeling about this, but hopefully this will last a couple of years. The 8700K should give me plenty of performance for now.
 

juanrga

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Hey at least that AMD doesn't overheat at stock speeds like them 7700K's do, but don't worry Intel will tell you thats normal.
You mean those '95W' chips are shipped with a 140W cooler, because they are in reality 128W chips? Most of those chips have a hard time trying to run beyond 3.9GHz on air. In fact it is only when you use extreme cooling (LN2) that you can reduce temperatures enough to push those AMD chips to 5GHz.

Hope you didnt install those Intel patches that make your machine reboot and unstable, I heard they had to recall that patch.
This continuous pretension the Meltdown/Spectre issue is Intel-exclusive has to come to an end. AMD is affected as well:

AMD's efforts to prevent and address security vulnerabilities can be costly and may be partially effective or not successful at all. For instance, AMD's mitigation efforts, including the deployment of software or firmware updates to address security vulnerabilities, could result in unintended consequences such as adverse performance system operation issues and reboots. AMD may also depend on third parties, such as customers, vendors and end users to deploy AMD's mitigations or create their own, and they may delay, decline or modify the implementation of such mitigations. AMD's relationships with its customers could be adversely affected as some of its customers may stop purchasing AMD products, reduce or delay future purchases of AMD products, or use competing products. Any of these actions by AMD's customers could adversely affect its revenue. AMD is also subject to claims related to the recently disclosed side-channel exploits, such as "Spectre" and "Meltdown," and may face claims or litigation for future vulnerabilities. Actual or perceived security vulnerabilities of AMD products may subject AMD to adverse publicity, damage to its brand and reputation, and could materially harm AMD's business or financial results
 

Gideon

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name calling and personal insults will not be tolerated .
You mean those '95W' chips are shipped with a 140W cooler, because they are in reality 128W chips? Most of those chips have a hard time trying to run beyond 3.9GHz on air. In fact it is only when you use extreme cooling (LN2) that you can reduce temperatures enough to push those AMD chips to 5GHz.



This continuous pretension the Meltdown/Spectre issue is Intel-exclusive has to come to an end. AMD is affected as well:
I see you went off on a triggered angry tangent that has nothing to do with one another. 4 GHz is where Ryzen tend to top out and it has nothing to do with thermal limits unless your running threadripper. That puny 4 core 7700K is overheating or going beyond thermal design at stock speeds and Intel told them it was normal, cause you know it was just a spike. Plus many have seen Intel chips violate their supposed TDP in many different review sites.

Your next bunch is just funny, Meltdown does not affect AMD, 1 variant of spectre does and the other they feel they are protected from but made a patch anyway just to be 100% sure. Oh and look another quote with no link to anything, what a shocker. You spit out more fake news posts then a Trump tweet.
 

juanrga

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I see you went off on a triggered angry tangent that has nothing to do with one another.
Who did move the goalpost to "overheating", when mentioning him how AMD is RMAing defective RyZen chips with the bug?

Your next bunch is just funny, Meltdown does not affect AMD, 1 variant of spectre does and the other they feel they are protected from but made a patch anyway just to be 100% sure. Oh and look another quote with no link to anything, what a shocker. You spit out more fake news posts then a Trump tweet.
AMD is affected by both versions of Spectre, and I already gave the source to that quote before. It is a quote directly from AMD. You can continue pretending that AMD didn't say that, and you can continue accusing me of posting fake news, but you will be only fooling yourself.
 

Gideon

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Who did move the goalpost to "overheating", when mentioning him how AMD is RMAing defective RyZen chips with the bug?



AMD is affected by both versions of Spectre, and I already gave the source to that quote before. It is a quote directly from AMD. You can continue pretending that AMD didn't say that, and you can continue accusing me of posting fake news, but you will be only fooling yourself.
You like always are moving the goalposts, mine was always about overheating and thats what those stock 7700K's do for some people and Intel said it was normal, pretty crappy bud. Your the one that wants to talk about TDP like it's some sort of written in stone dont pass this line logic. Both AMD and Intel violate the TDP at times, difference is that AMD does not overheat at stock speeds. Perhaps thats because that AMD comes with a usable stock cooler rather then the joke coolers that come with non Intel K chips.

Hey look a link, see it's not hard. Also like I told you before thats is a lawyer prospective and it's written to cover their ass in any way shape or form and means nothing. If you trade on the stock market you have to that included for investors. It literally means nothing other then what could happen, not what is happening, I would think you would know these things. Look forward to next round of BS you want to post.
 

Dermac

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You mean those '95W' chips are shipped with a 140W cooler, because they are in reality 128W chips? Most of those chips have a hard time trying to run beyond 3.9GHz on air. In fact it is only when you use extreme cooling (LN2) that you can reduce temperatures enough to push those AMD chips to 5GHz.



This continuous pretension the Meltdown/Spectre issue is Intel-exclusive has to come to an end. AMD is affected as well:
Meltdown is an Intel specific issue, Spectre is an everybody issue. This means that your Intel CPU is vulnerable to both Meltdown and Spectre and an AMD CPU is susceptible to Spectre. Could somebody explain why a chip that has 2 known issues is better than a CPU with 1 of those issues?

Also that pack in cooler works wonders for my 1700, hell I didn't have to de-lid it or buy a decent cooler just to keep it under control. It may run at 128w (never seen this happen though) but it doesn't even push that cooler.

And you realize that the "quote" you like throwing around is from the projecting for the future part of the budget. In essence, they have to put as many things that could go wrong with their chips, Like intel, they have to mitigate any litigation that could possibly come from a future lawsuit which means, putting on paper, the things that COULD happen. Even in the quote it says tyhese are thing that COULD happen. If you look at the same part from Intel's report, you see much of the same thing, Intel also lays out the things that COULD happen. So please, when putting that particular quote in a random forum, please at least read what comes before and after it and put that in your posts. For fun, go find the one Intel has wrote and write about the things that COULD happen there.
 

ob1

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I want to build a new system but do not want either bug, so when will they be shipping new CPU's without the issue? Probably close to the time video cards are MSRP I guess....
 

somebrains

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I want to build a new system but do not want either bug, so when will they be shipping new CPU's without the issue? Probably close to the time video cards are MSRP I guess....
Asap I'd assume. The brand that can validate skus that are "clean" has a clear market advantage. Funny thing about sales, the other company can counter by flooding the market with discounted product if they can point to zero real world impact, and inventory will sell in channels that prioritize cost over anything else. That company may decide a PR campaign is more beneficial than racing to market.
 

demondrops

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and asus is ever so slow with the x99 spectre fixes. still nothing! meltdown is fixed and some sort of partial protection to spectre. consider that it is both camps affected, and fixes are coming quickly, then no i wouldnt be to bothered to buy either. chances are u already upgrading from a vulnerable system, and newever hardware is probably more focus on so faster fix. unless it open up to that it could still be vulnerable to it and hackers could with time exploit it, i have no idea, but sounds likely. so i really dont know. but i think i will wait and see what amd does with zen 2 and hopefully 8 core 16 thread icelakes on mainstream, atleast this year.
 

somebrains

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and asus is ever so slow with the x99 spectre fixes. still nothing! meltdown is fixed and some sort of partial protection to spectre. consider that it is both camps affected, and fixes are coming quickly, then no i wouldnt be to bothered to buy either. chances are u already upgrading from a vulnerable system, and newever hardware is probably more focus on so faster fix. unless it open up to that it could still be vulnerable to it and hackers could with time exploit it, i have no idea, but sounds likely. so i really dont know. but i think i will wait and see what amd does with zen 2 and hopefully 8 core 16 thread icelakes on mainstream, atleast this year.
I've seen some really good deals on x99, but it gets down to clockspeed over core count for my current needs.

I'm coming off a SB era Xeon I originally built when I was working at an ISP heavy into VMware.

6 years later I want to see what NVME drives do for certain workflow. My Mobo is stuffed with usb 3.0, BT, and ac wifi cards bc it's a server/workstation board. It's time for me to replace what I have with Z270/7700k. I got it cheap enough, and there's no obviously better parts I can order or go pick up at Fry's for long term use.

Battle(non)sense put a clip up on YouTube with the same sentiments of selection based on your actual use.

I'm ok with a small spend right now on a band-aid build.
 

MrGuvernment

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atleast the never chips have this sorted. beyond 8700k.
Since when?

As said who ever can fix this first could win market share. The problem i find is how quick they are able to put out patches and potentially release new silicon, which makes you wonder how long did both camps really know about this>

Also to those who say no exploits, key word being that YOU know of, how often are exploits out that the good guys don't know about, some are kept very close secret. Of course intel and everyone in the media will claim no exploits...
 
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KG-Prime90

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If it's been around for 20 years and they now have fixs forthcoming in silicon then the reveal itself and future plans accordingly was all in lock step. Which is not even suprising or leaving any logical person agahst. Big companies like that aren't piles of money on r & d and marketting and trends and meta data for nothing. Imo it was all better left unspoken in general honestly, though nothing stays a secret anymore for long. I can only assume with logic, that Intel and AMD both anticipated their responses and the general publics backlash, aren't suprised in the slightest and to cushion the blow have released their intentions to fix it in silicon, as was planned all a long.

The issue of culpablility is certainly credible though depending on how long they knew and or how long it had been any kind of realistic threat. It's been known in elite tech circles, but not general public, and certainly not blown wide open in year 20xx media.

At any rate, i'd buy an 8700k tonight not giving a single cluck for home use and run it for 5 years almost certainly without issue. Quite frankly i do not care about this. I don't feel backstabbed by intel or amd for that matter and it would not have changed the fact i still would have bought either companies cpus multiple times in the last 10-20 years regardless. Everything is a risk, and there's absolute ZERO chance i would have gone without a pc in all these years. Even if they said it could possibly give you cancer, lol, and that's just straight up reality. There will always be something, this is just one of those somethings.
 

juanrga

Pro-Intel / Anti-AMD Just FYI
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Meltdown is an Intel specific issue, Spectre is an everybody issue. This means that your Intel CPU is vulnerable to both Meltdown and Spectre and an AMD CPU is susceptible to Spectre. Could somebody explain why a chip that has 2 known issues is better than a CPU with 1 of those issues?

Also that pack in cooler works wonders for my 1700, hell I didn't have to de-lid it or buy a decent cooler just to keep it under control. It may run at 128w (never seen this happen though) but it doesn't even push that cooler.

And you realize that the "quote" you like throwing around is from the projecting for the future part of the budget. In essence, they have to put as many things that could go wrong with their chips, Like intel, they have to mitigate any litigation that could possibly come from a future lawsuit which means, putting on paper, the things that COULD happen. Even in the quote it says tyhese are thing that COULD happen. If you look at the same part from Intel's report, you see much of the same thing, Intel also lays out the things that COULD happen. So please, when putting that particular quote in a random forum, please at least read what comes before and after it and put that in your posts. For fun, go find the one Intel has wrote and write about the things that COULD happen there.
Meltdown also affects to ARM and IBM. It is not "an Intel specific issue".

The 1700 is not a 128W chip, so no really surprised you "never seen this happen though". If you read my former post, you will see that I was not referring to the 1700.

AMD has to put all "that" in the warning, because its chips are susceptible to all "that". You can find similar claims on Intel documents because of the same reason.

Also that quote is not only about what "COULD happen". Several things listed in the quote already happened and/or are happening. For instance some older AMD systems had boot problems after patched, and performance hits on AMD systems patched for Spectre have been measured as well. That "third parties, such as customers, vendors and end users to deploy AMD's mitigations or create their own, and they may delay, decline or modify the implementation of such mitigations" is also happening. Red Hat developed its own patches but then delayed its application after finding problems with the microcodes. The lawsuits are also happening; the last time I checked this AMD faced about six lawsuits.

So neither this is an Intel specific issue nor AMD is in some kind of invulnerable heaven.
 
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somebrains

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Apparently an i7 user is measuring optimizations on recent iterations of Windows patches

https://www.reddit.com/r/hardware/comments/7w4as1
Nice, I'll watch this and see how it all shakes out in the end.
Gains of any kind is preferable to hearing about more 4k or sequential read/write loss.

I should be on an HEDT platform for storage performance needs, but I can wait.

All Spectre and Meltdown has done imo is expose issues with resource and application management.
Example: inability to execute non-disruptive environment updates.

The day to day self-inflicted problems persist, like leaving sec issues open past 170days before they're even discovered.
 

Squall_Rinoa89

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going to sit tight and see what Intel has planned beyond i7 8700k. I was going to upgrade this year.... looks like I'll wait for DDR5/9xxx from Intel. Not for nothing, but I would never go back to AMD. Last AMD processor was a Athlon XP 2400+ and no... just...NO.
 

4330thgink

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Yep. I purchased a Xeon E5-2667v2 rig just recently for a stupidly low price(thank God for eBay with "older" server stuff).

Apply patches where applicable, run firewalls, run AV software, be smart with internet usage. ....you shouldn't have a problem.

If you want to watch transexual midget goat porn, use reputable sites or media on disc on players. Don't go to stupid websites, don't open attachments, don't allow installers, etc, etc.

In the 25 years I've been on the 'net I've been infected 2 times by virus/worm/etc. Be smart.
 

pgaster

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I have been an AMD person for quite a while, but that damn Microcenter had an open box i5 8400 for $159.96 and I couldn't pass it up. Then you get $30 of a bundle with a board, so I got an Asus Z370-A to go with it. I feel dirty.
 

Saturn_V

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Still on a i7 3770k/32GB/GTX 970 as my main machine. I had budgeted to upgrade last year- five year cycle; but elected to go with a 4bay NAS and HDDs instead. Meltdown/Spectre wouldn't stop me from buying, but there's not exactly a compelling need to upgrade (for my use case) either.
 

somebrains

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Yep. I purchased a Xeon E5-2667v2 rig just recently for a stupidly low price(thank God for eBay with "older" server stuff).

Apply patches where applicable, run firewalls, run AV software, be smart with internet usage. ....you shouldn't have a problem.

If you want to watch transexual midget goat porn, use reputable sites or media on disc on players. Don't go to stupid websites, don't open attachments, don't allow installers, etc, etc.

In the 25 years I've been on the 'net I've been infected 2 times by virus/worm/etc. Be smart.
Lolz, but what else are you going to use VR for :)
 

thecold

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If I needed to buy something right now I would. Both my laptop and desktop were updated in the last year.
 

Sycraft

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Ya, of course. We don't knee jerk, we research things and see what the actual impact is. So in our testing the patch has little to no noticeable performance impact on user apps and on servers that do heavy user-mode computation. It may have some impact on our VM servers but it doesn't matter since they aren't CPU bound, memory and disk IO are the areas they are low on, CPU is always way under utilized.

Also we know that security issues happen, it is life and always has been. The idea that you'd drop a product because an issue was discovered is unreasonable because then we'd have no vendors left to use.

So as ever, it is based on what is best for a given use. AMD is certainly on the table, they always have been, but we aren't giving them any special consideration because of this. It's business as usual for us. It's just another security issue to mitigate, one in a long line. Security is a process, not an end game. You don't go and buy the "right" hardware and software and then you are secure. You implement controls and policies and continually monitor, evaluate, and update and increase your security profile.
 

somebrains

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When I was still working on VMware clusters and some bare metal legacy applications, upgrade time was always such a pain.

It was difficult to plan capacity bc you were never ahead for very long.

The worst was being asked point blank where we should go, and pushing buzzy things like Hadoop as nothing to focus on. We would never be able to absorb enough workloads to make clusters pay for themselves. We weren't doing enough jobs internally to make buying a cluster worthwhile. I could never see scheduling a job without a large storage spend to support it ever being enough volume or IOPs.

I watched my buddy's advertising agency burn a huge spend on a NetApp that was creaking a year later.

The company I worked for at the time had a lot of core Cisco gear refreshed after absorbing the beginning of ever increasing ddos.

There is no buy it once and forget about it.
You evolve, as the landscape evolves.
You try not to overcommit your resources, bc the gear is cattle and not pets.

My colleagues on the software engineering side have it worse, bc they don't age as well as Ops guys do.
The Dev I partner with complains that he's an old dog, and it's hard for him to learn new tricks.
We've seen devs older than us get stuck, like a guy that thinks php is the answer to everything, and become a satire of themselves in their adherence to that last thing they learned.

Some things that drive you nuts never go away, what used to be some guy publicly exposing a Peachtree box turns into 6 years later some other guy's deployment hitting my jailed VPC bc Lambda saw that it had 3306 open to the world. We still see API keys hard coded in public git. We hear about networking gear installs where an edge device was the point of entry for an incident bc some helping hands guy left the default credentials and disabled ssh bc they needed to finish quickly. My buddy worked at a place where entire products were blasted from git, and there still were no backups.

It is what it is.
 
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