Are you ditching Steam in favor of Epic Store?

Discussion in 'PC Gaming & Hardware' started by Nebell, Jan 13, 2019.

  1. mavrocket

    mavrocket [H]ard|Gawd

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    I've never used that site.

    I like to use GMG, Fanatical (formerly Bundle Stars) and occasionally the Humble Store, but don't mind buying direct from the publisher if it's a steep enough discount (Origin, Uplay, Bethesda Launcher).

    However, if I can buy the game for the same price on Steam, I'll always buy it there for all the extra functionality.

    Adding a non-Steam shortcut just doesn't cut it for some titles.
     
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  2. Lmah2x

    Lmah2x Gawd

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    I'd never ditch steam unless they deleted my library for some reason. I have 750 games on there, though I haven't bought directly from the steam store that much in the last 3 years though, most the games I buy are steam keys. I'm agnostic when it comes to the place I buy my games.
     
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  3. SecretStash

    SecretStash Limp Gawd

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    Does Epic force updates? With steam the setting to update only when I run the game still updates when the game isn't run.
     
  4. sharknice

    sharknice [H]ard|Gawd

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    You can control it per game and globally.
     
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  5. Armenius

    Armenius I Drive Myself to the [H]ospital

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    He mentioned Kinguin because they are one of the worst among grey market resellers. "Putting your money where your mouth is" was his way of saying you don't care about the publishers/developers since you like Steam, so buy your games from grey market resellers to prevent them from getting a dime.
     
  6. Hornet

    Hornet [H]ardness Supreme

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    I currently have Steam, Origin, and Blizzard App installed

    Wouldn't mind using Epic store if they have something really compelling, like a new Unreal game :D but as of now, I see no reason to add yet another one.
     
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  7. mavrocket

    mavrocket [H]ard|Gawd

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    Well that's just silly.
     
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  8. TechLarry

    TechLarry Can't find the G Spot

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    Why would I want to change?

    What percent Steam takes doesn't mean shit to me. In the end, the game will be priced at a point I will pay or it won't.
     
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  9. Kinsaras

    Kinsaras 2[H]4U

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    Why not both? I'm not loyal to any one thing. Whoever has the cheapest price wins.
     
  10. modi123

    modi123 [H]ardness Supreme

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    I think you mean 'GenZ'.. ;)
     
  11. Devastadus

    Devastadus [H]Lite

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    If the game came out on one of the big three clients I would go for Steam or GoG and only Epic if it was the only place to get it, like origin is for EA. Reasons being Steam and GoG are very pretty pro consumer some things are

    1) Steam and Gog User reviews - I think this is the biggest, so you know if the game is crap or not. I don't think EPIC will implement this because people like Ubisoft don't want people being turnned off when the division 2 gets tons of negative reviews for being trash

    2) GoG - no DRM, DRM just make things go slow and cause issues

    3) Steam workshop - Unsure if GoG has something similar but it's just so nice and simple to get install and change mods epic may implement this at some point.

    4) Linux and MacOS support - They care about all platforms epic is only windows for now but it can change.

    5) Steam link and streaming - it is pretty freaking amazing and nice to play some cool 2,4 player games Co-op on the TV with my friends, i can't get that on any other platform

    6) Steam statistics - Things like steam charts and statistics to see who is playing what game and what hardware people are going. I think its pretty neat and lots of transparency there.

    I'm sure there more reason but those just stick out immediately to me.
     
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  12. polydiol

    polydiol [H]ard|Gawd

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    Not at all, I'll either buy something steam or the ubisoft launcher or origin. If theres another game thats not on steam of ubisoft, I'll either not buy it or just look at getting it directly from the manufacturer.
     
  13. dgz

    dgz [H]ardness Supreme

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    I actually got rid of Epic's craptastic launcher because of their shenanigans. Ditching steam for an even worse company lol
     
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  14. J3RK

    J3RK [H]ardForum Junkie

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    Short answer. No.
     
  15. Krenum

    Krenum [H]ardForum Junkie

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    No. This would support Fortnite in a round about way. And I can't do that.
     
  16. Azrak

    Azrak Gawd

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    Yes, I will ditch Steam and the 85+ games I have on it that I paid real money for over the past whatever years.
    Oh wait... no I won't.
    Stupid question.

    The real answer is: If there is a game that I think is worth buying and it's only on a certain distribution platform or is cheaper on one platform (such as Epic) than another (such as Steam), I'll probably buy it on the cheaper platform (unless said platform is really crappy with horrible reviews or deemed garbage by the gaming community at large) and live with the fact that I have to install yet another platform software program on my computer in order to play it.
     
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  17. J3RK

    J3RK [H]ardForum Junkie

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    While at the same time rewarding the killing-off of UT.
     
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  18. Krenum

    Krenum [H]ardForum Junkie

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    Yes that too.
     
  19. Droc

    Droc 2[H]4U

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    I have 400 games and 600 DLC on steam. I also have origin and Uplay. So the question is would I ditch steam? or just ditch it as my main? doubt it.
     
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  20. Flogger23m

    Flogger23m [H]ardForum Junkie

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    Eh, the millennial launcher is Steam. I don't mind giving more money to developers provided it is a developer I want to support. If it means they take a bigger cut and can justify making a more niche game then that is great. I think that scenario is pretty unlikely though.

    Personally I don't care for Steam reviews. Most of them are utter garbage or group think. About one third of them are "I played this game, got killed, GG will buy again". Steam reviews are one a giant meme and represent the asshole of online game reviews. Also people will down vote a game for various reasons, such as SJW virtue signaling, being pissed because a developer is front a certain country and whatnot. There are a few diamonds in the rough, but they're few and far between.

    Perhaps if Steam regulated who could post reviews and had a human being editing and allowing reviews on a case by case basis with a reputation system (think ebay, Heatware) it would be worth more than the toilet paper I just wiped my ass with. :p Problem is that would require effort, and Valve is allergic to that these days.
     
  21. Armenius

    Armenius I Drive Myself to the [H]ospital

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    No. Customers should have the right to criticise the games they buy, positively or negatively, for whatever reason they want. I'm surprised anyone would advocate for censorship in this day and age when censorship is running rampant everwhere.
     
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  22. SvenBent

    SvenBent 2[H]4U

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    Fanboyisme.
    You gotta pick at side and yell on forums why everyone who did not make the same choice is bad.

    I dont know that the only reasons I could se eto only choose one.
     
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  23. J3RK

    J3RK [H]ardForum Junkie

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    Fanboyism? I got more mileage out of UT games than I ever did from Valve's games. However, when you've got 335 games in Steam, you tend to want to continue that practice rather than install every half-assed client-storefront that pops up because someone can't handle giving a cut to the company hosting all the data and selling the product. It's asinine. I've got maybe 80-100 games in GOG too, but that's because many of them weren't or still aren't on Steam (mainly DOS classics). You may not mind having 50 clients starting up when you restart your machine, updating, prompting for multi-factor authentication every time you move between PCs in your own home, etc. but if I can keep that stuff to a minimum and keep all my stuff in one place more or less, I'm happy.

    Aside from that, IMO aside from their nearly ubiquitous engine (which I have no complaints with) Epic hasn't done anything to excite me in years, with the small exception of UT4, which they effectively killed off in favor of their mobile-game of the minute Fortnite.

    It's not picking a side. It's sticking with a rock-solid client and company that has never done any wrong to me, and then applying a heap of common sense that more clients and storefronts running on the same computer is hardly the "better" solution. How many clients are on each console? Right, one. For other reasons, but then that's why they're generally smooth, easy, streamlined experiences right? (I guess with the exception of needing publisher specific credentials in some cases... ***Vomits***)
     
  24. RanceJustice

    RanceJustice [H]ardness Supreme

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    I've spoken on this topic at length and the continued behavior of Epic simply makes me want to rant at this point, so if you have any questions please let me know.

    Suffice it to say, no I am not planning on "switching" (or even patronizing) Epic store and anyone that has an interest in the long term health, value, and viability of PC gaming should not do so either. In the short time since coming into dumptrucks of Fortnite dollars thanks to the low-work, high return system and this particular title ending up as "lightning in a bottle" along so many other also-rans, Epic has attempted to upend the current gaming market and this is harmful to just about everyone, including most developers, but especially players.

    Steam has earned my respect for over a decade as they have made decisions that bettered the environment for everyone from players (ie creating the modern idea of the massive discount game sale, among tons of other policies such as refunds, etc), developers (ie Steamworks offering a core of high performance integrated achievements/cards/rewards and even things like full multiplayer and matchmaking taken care of without middleware or building one's own from scratch), and a TON of initiatives with a long term influence, usually regarding openness and standards - Steam for Linux, SteamOS, Steam for Mac, Steam Workshop, Steam Marketplace, SteamVR, tons of contribution to Linux and VR supporting projects upstream, the amazing Proton/SteamPlay, SteamLink streaming and more. All the while they've resisted the urge to exploit - they've never increased the percentage they've taken from developers nor have they added "extra" fees. Perhaps its their ethos as a privately held company controlled by GabeN, untainted by public shareholders demanding continual short term gains but they've been a major driving force for good in gaming since digital distribution has taken over. This is not to say they're perfect and they can't improve, but overall they have a litany of real viable progress and benefit.

    Epic by comparison knows they don't have any of this, nor do they seem to have any inclination of providing any of it. Instead, they spin their weaknesses as strengths (We won't allow reviews from the riffraff!!) and have used an underhanded method of supposing that somehow Steam's static 30% cut of the sales - which has been the same for years, is dramatically less than any console (not counting other fees like patching/hosting/verification fees and the amount of meddling involved) and equal or lower than any other major launcher/store/platform that has come along since. They try to rope in developers (knowing they have nothing to really offer players versus Steam) by claiming that Steam's cut is somehow unfair and they'll take a smaller one; some devs will fall for the bait, not considering all they're losing from the larger audience to the tons of Steam platform benefits technical and otherwise, sadly. However, we cannot allow them to succeed. It is bad enough to have every publisher squeezing out a craptastic client such as Origin for their own first party items and a smattering of cross-platform titles; that stuff is annoying enough. Epic takes it to another level because they (like other newcomer Discord which is a whole other problem) have been paying to bring store exclusives to PC. This is relatively unprecedented and harmful to the value and openness of the ecosystem - we've never had to deal with an entity that is throwing money to specifically say "You third party entity, you sell only via MY platform, by contract". Timed exclusives are bad enough, but we recently saw that The Division 2 - a relatively high profile Ubisoft title - recently decided to change from the Ubi standard of "UPlay + Steam" to "UPlay + Epic", meaning that Epic convinced them not only to additionally come onto their store, but also paid them to keep OFF Steam!

    This is just a portion of the kind of slimy, underhanded behavior I've seen from Epic and their attempts to sleeze onto the scene. No mattter how much they rattle on about "competition" they actually mean to make for LESS competition both through the introduction of incompatible, proprietary launchers (as opposed to keysellers for existing platforms which actually compete ) and the repugnant notion of paying for exclusives which is something the PC market just didn't have to worry about the way consoles did..until Epic, Discord and their ilk. Epic has in a short time tried to make gaming even more player-exploitative and their ideas are birthed from the same "we could have more hypothetical money if we do X" thinking that should be ruinous. Be it for ethics, value, or your own self interest this is one of those times that Epic needs to fail at their attempt. If not, then the entire market will just add another level of player-exploitative nastiness because it will become commonplace, the same as every other customer-unfriendly policy that some said "Don't like it? Don't buy it!" and thought that would be good enough yet we all saw the microtransactions and other slime sleeze through the industry if it proves profitable; and with a very low threshold to profitability and/or a well heeled company willing to throw money to break conventions and undermine the whole thing, its even worse.

    Steam has earned their place and demonstrated long-term thinking with benefits to users and developers alike. Epic has in their short time, been incredibly harmful and are on a trajectory to only do more if the users, gaming media, and everyone together does not offer a strong rebuke that affects their real and projected profit.

    Edit: Worse, Epic COULD Have simply concentrated on their own engine licensing and modding elements. They could do very well sticking to that niche and thriving as games powered by UE4 are sold all over the place and taking a page from Steam, supporting their engine on a long term trajectory (ie making platform porting even easier etc). They didn't need to come and ruin the nearby "neighborhood" of B-to-C digital sales, but the despicable greed that pushed them to ruin everything in search of a few bucks is asinine.
     
    Last edited: Jan 18, 2019
  25. piscian18

    piscian18 [H]ardForum Junkie

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    No because steam is a good community client and they are an exclusive publisher for several big name studios. I may not like Valve but Steam is great.
     
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  26. sharknice

    sharknice [H]ard|Gawd

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    It's amazing how much rage having to click a different icon can induce in some people.

    It's like listening to a crazy conspiracy theorist.
     
  27. Flogger23m

    Flogger23m [H]ardForum Junkie

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    It isn't a review if its a meme. If I write "I like poo, GG will buy again" as post it up as a review it should be removed. I also don't think a game getting review bombed because 20,000 Chinese people got pissed off at country XYZ for political reasons unrelated to the game is fair.

    If you want "review" quality like that, go make a reddit page where you can spam with various swear words and gibberish.
     
  28. Ranulfo

    Ranulfo [H]ard|Gawd

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    What is the incentive for me to buy Division 2 on Epic client at this point? They offer less than half of what Steam does for conveniences and it will be cheaper to get a key that activates on Uplay only. I was probably going to buy the game on Steam for the refund option and community benefits. Now I'll save about 10% by purchasing on a key seller like GMG or Humble for Uplay only (which is required no matter what anyway).

    What benefit do I get as a customer by only having Epic launcher for Rebel Galaxy Outlaw, a single player game that was going to be on GOG? Same for Satisfactory and a couple of other announced exclusives?
     
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  29. J3RK

    J3RK [H]ardForum Junkie

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    Click away! By all means. Load up a bunch of clients. Wait for all of them to update every time you boot. Nobody’s stopping you. Enjoy!

    I like mine clean.
     
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  30. sharknice

    sharknice [H]ard|Gawd

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    Me too, I have like 8 launchers and none of them start when i boot up. It's an option you can set. You're acting like every little detail is a huge problem when it's easily dealt with and then making up more issues that aren't even true. Did Tim Sweeney touch your pee pee when you were a kid or something?
     
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  31. J3RK

    J3RK [H]ardForum Junkie

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    Yes.... he did...
     
  32. Flogger23m

    Flogger23m [H]ardForum Junkie

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    So I only bothered to read this post recently and meh, this is exactly the kind of double standard I keep seeing from the Valve fans.

    No doubt that Fornite is setting bad trends but it isn't the first game to do this at all. Lets take a look at Team Fortress 2 or CS:GO. The former became a free to play game that made a crap load of money selling cosmetics (what Epic is doing). CS:GO also has timed skins, loot boxes, season passes for skins, what is essentially gambling and other crap. And CS:GO released and was still a paid game when it had all of that stuff in it. I understand being upset with the trends, but to bash Epic and give Valve a free pass is mind boggling.

    Steam Market place is just another cash cow for Valve. I'm not sure what this does for the consume. It merely feeds their gambling/loot box machine. Yeah I can sell some gift cards and make a few cents which is nice, but I'd rather have lower prices up front if they skipped out the market place and all its costs. This is just another predatory way to get people addicted to spending money on microtransations. I don't see how you can list this as a positive for Steam. It is pretty scummy overall.

    Steamworkshop is nice, but has a lot of kinks and a garbage interface. And it auto removes mods and whatnot. Linux support? Nice, I know UT3 had it way back when.

    I like Steam and don't really want to use Epic's client but the double standards here are just obscene.

    QUOTE="RanceJustice, post: 1044041355, member: 66758"]
    Timed exclusives are bad enough, but we recently saw that The Division 2 - a relatively high profile Ubisoft title - recently decided to change from the Ubi standard of "UPlay + Steam" to "UPlay + Epic", meaning that Epic convinced them not only to additionally come onto their store, but also paid them to keep OFF Steam!
    [/QUOTE]

    Do you have any proof of this or are you pulling it out of thin air? My guess is one of two things:

    - Ubisoft wants to multiple store fronts because they aren't confident enough in going Uplay exclusive. Epic offers lower fees, so they decided to go with that option. Smaller install base but Fortnite has a massive following right now, so the MP player install base for Epic's client is also nothing to scoff at.
    - Technology sharing or transfer. If Ubisoft ditches one of their in house engines for UE4 this might be related to it. Perhaps the next Splinter Cell game, traditionally built on UE2.5, will make the jump to UE4 and Epic negotiated lesser engine fees.
     
  33. sharknice

    sharknice [H]ard|Gawd

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    Epic is giving money to some developers for timed exclusive deals. Yeah it kind of sucks for consumers in the short term but if it makes the Epic store popular enough to compete with Steam it's better for consumers in the long term. I would rather be able to choose which store to buy a game from but exclusivity really isn't a problem. You don't have a to pay a subscription to use the store or anything like that, you just have to click a different icon. It's really not a big deal at all and people are acting like it's the end of the fucking world.
     
  34. RanceJustice

    RanceJustice [H]ardness Supreme

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    I'm not contesting that some elements of Team Fortress or CS:GO have grown into what I consider poor trends/policies. However, my discussion was not about individual games but specifically the validity and policies of Steam vs Epic as stores/platforms and to a lesser extent the recent behavior of each company as a whole. I'm not saying Valve is perfect or cannot improve, but in this regard I feel that as far as user/player/customer benefits are concerned Valve has been leagues ahead in this regard.

    I should have probably said more specifically the entire Steam Inventory / Item / Marketplace system,. Steam Marketplace certainly gives Valve a cut, but that is not necessarily an issue. Overall, its use comes down to the users and to an extent how each game implements support. Steam Marketplace, along with the whole Inventory/Item trading or selling system etc... can be used for individuals to trade/sell content, so it isn't like something that is exclusively to benefit Valve or only games that have bad monetization mechanics. They try to crack down on the gambling and other nonsense but much of that takes place elsewhere or has been disabled in the API for Steam's part of it; for legit trades/sales its better it happens on Steam where there are evolving rules/policies to dissuade bad actors. As annoyed as I am at actual "microtransactions" of cosmetic or other content provided by games themselves, I can't really be upset about people selling/trading Steam Cards or other Community items (which innately have no value, require no money to acquire "normally", and can be traded etc) and whatnot. Players themselves are assigning value to these items without Valve's say so after all, nor are there any exploitative policies of which I am aware (ie If they made everything no trade and sale only, so Valve would get a cut of every Community item's transaction etc). Neither Steam overall nor individual games with Inventory/Market/Community functions like Cards and whatnot seem to be the kind of thing that could lower prices if they were not present for a variety of reasons (ie the system evolved over a number of steps, wasn't directly linked to monetization, doesnt require a lot of money for upkeep etc). Furthermore, the entire Steam Inventory / Items/ Community dynamic is a useful platform feature in the view of many, so it can certainly be a benefit in Steam's corner versus platforms without something similar.

    Steam Workshop is nice and has come a long way, really making it easy to subscribe to auto-updated mods without having to go to another site or use another utility. This, combined with the hosting is really a significant benefit as a platform for all involved, from modders to the users themselves. Definitely a big benefit as a feature of the platform, especially when there are certain parts of the market that are trying to move away/disable modding all together, so a major platform coming out for (non-paid) modding is a strong feature in modders' corners so to speak. I'm not sure about the auto-uninstall issues you describe as I've never experienced it.

    Linux (and Mac, from a theoretical perspective) support may be far more important to me than other users, but Valve has really gone above and beyond in supporting gaming on Mac/Linux and the use of open technologies/standards. While some earlier individual titles including UT3 supported Linux, Valve used their position as the market leader to change lots of things for the better that really broke open major interest in supporting Linux. SteamOS and Steam for Linux (and Mac, before that) meant not just that users of these OSes would flock to Steam as a giant of the industry was actually supporting therm, but let developers know "Hey! If the 800lb gorilla is interested here, maybe we should really take it seriously"! They also developed much of their tech to be platform independent and tools making porting easier, not to mention direct intervention and funds poured into improving gaming on these platforms (ie Valve funded updates to GPU related drivers and tech, as well as things like Vulkan tools etc) Many of these developments were either not initially profitable and/or were done with an eye to the future which make them more striking (ie GabeN was concerned about Microsoft's attempts to create a walled garden for gaming, and their whole SteamOS / Steam Machine was a way to combat that. He was proved right with the Win10 Microsoft Store's arrival and many think the evolution may have been different had Valve not taken an interest in combating it). Epic by comparison does not even offer Linux support for their client/store (not to mention Fortnite itself) which is a significant issue of real value when it comes to titles sold upon it, especially if those titles currently or could in the future offer Linux support, not to mention the overall arc of the industry. There's a lot more to it here, but its a major platform feature not just for users of Steam who favor those OSes, but has affected the direction and course of gaming in a major way and Steam / Valve is to be commended for it.

    Regarding The Division 2.... Your first guess would absolutely have merit if they added Epic's launcher without removing the title from Steam. Epic offers a couple dangling carrots and hypothetical benefits, but Steam has a long proven track record of profit for Ubisoft now over a decade so I can't understand why they'd cut off that known good line of revenue to chase a trend with an untested new storefront; even if everything goes "perfectly" a company as big as Ubi should well know that the vast majority of Fortnite players are NOT going to convert over to other titles etc. Regarding technology transfer, at least to date that should have little if anything to do with store/platform choice. Last I looked into UE4, there wasn';t anything regarding distribution to say the least and if there was I would consider it major evidence of unethical conduct on Epic's part, to use their game's engine and licensing for it to distort the market and mess around in the completely divorced realm of distribution; such a thing has not happened on PC to date etc. I'd certainly be just as angry if Steam hypothetically made a deal with/bought Unity (or their next gen Source engine etc) and used licensing to drive developers to favor one distribution platform over another! In any event, regarding "proof" I'll look around for a smoking gun press release or whatnot from Ubi detailing why they're NOT going with Steam any longer , but it is the most reasonable hypothesis that Epic has in some financial way caused Ubi to break up a long, profitable distribution relationship with Steam - especially in light of Epic's latest attempts to secure 3rd party exclusives for their store/launcher through throwing money around!

    I really don't consider it a double standard; tallying up all of these features, elements, behaviors etc... Steam as a store/platform has been generally beneficial for gamers over a very long arc. Epic by contrast has been a store/platform for a short time and has mostly done harmful unethical things that distort the market in the hopes of maximizing profitability, damn the rest. This is not to say that Steam is always perfect etc... but especially considering the software/distribution platform itself and the companies as a whole it seems to me there is a stark difference.
     
  35. TangledThornz

    TangledThornz Gawd

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    I have no interest in EPIC because Russian a-hole hackers keep trying to open a Fortnite account using my email address. I was able to change the login using my own login but EPIC won't let me delete the account.
     
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  36. dragon69

    dragon69 69's Dragons

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    No, I'm not going to ditch the platform where 98% of my games reside for no real benefit for me, other than yet another launcher to buy games through that still another launcher to play the game.

    And some people sure like typing! :wideyed:
     
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  37. Averox

    Averox [H]Lite

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    I'll use Epic's store but I'm established on Steam with 3000+ games. No way I ditch that.

    It sucks because I understand why every publisher is creating their own platform but that creates so much separation.
     
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  38. RoxieToast

    RoxieToast n00b

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    Probably not, I have plenty of games and friends on steam, another launcher I use is battle.net because I've been a fan of Blizzard since forever. Not interested in Fortnite at all, dunno what other games are there on their launcher.
     
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  39. Mr. Bluntman

    Mr. Bluntman [H]ardness Supreme

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    Well that soured me to the Epic Store... And to answer OP: no, I'm not rebuying over 50 games. I'll stick to Steam. Epic should stick to making games and game engines.
     
    Last edited: Jan 28, 2019
    J3RK, Armenius and dragon69 like this.
  40. Flogger23m

    Flogger23m [H]ardForum Junkie

    Messages:
    10,049
    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2009
    Fixed it for you. I don't mind them giving a swing at their store/platform but I hope this Fornite cash doesn't make them stop their pro-developer stance when it comes to their game engine technology. That is what Epic is known for and it is a shame that these days people refer to them as "the Fortnite guys". UE4 has been a great asset for indie game devs.