Are you bending your alder-lake?

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rhkcommander959

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pavel said:
I'm reading that the bend in the IHS - can occur anywhere from 1 - 30 days. So, in your test - it can get bent relatively quickly and early. I guess ppl are using this hardware without the washer mod or any insight/knowledge of it - so, maybe their IHS is bent already?

I don't see the harm in it trying it - providing you don't affect the memory.


Maybe. But, lots of ppl (and on youtube) have claimed their IHS got bent already - and they were using air coolers?

The other annoyance is that I can't find , LOCALLY, the right dimensions of nylon washer - like nothing is in metric - when you find these for sale. If buying individually, the nylon washer is under $1 but they are listed in # or fraction. It doesn't help me. I want to be certain so.... "M4, 4cm ID, 8 or 9mm OD, 1mm thick." But, nothing like this is listed. But, go on Amazon and find a $15 50 pc kit of washers including this dimension or something really close - and yes, it's available. Except, now I'm spending $15 for 50 pcs when I just need 4 washers. Really frustrating for just trying an experiment you're not 100% sure, you'll use permanently.
Click to expand...
Got calipers? A digital calipers set is cheap.


I think the issue has been around since LGA and this retention mechanism
 
kirbyrj

kirbyrj

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If anything, I think the issue is made a little worse with ADL because the CPU is slightly elongated compared to previous generations so the bending effect on the IHS is exaggerated.
 
A

ADVenturePO

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Hello Dear ASUS users.

A company that makes workstations here.
I've made 12x LGA1700 Workstations 12700k x8 12600k x4 and I was testing 12900k.
Boards were ASUS TUF z690 Plus, z690 Strix-A, z690 APEX. Since TUF - my first MB for LGA1700,
I'm always using black metal 1mm washers - under socket holder. It works every time. I was checking CPU's after overclocking - none has bended.
Today I have returned from my friends home. With CPU 12900k SP90 ... bent like a banana. No he didn't use washers.
The problem is that the MB is not working properly. There couldn't be very excessive force as it was mounted with Liquid Freezer II 360.
But after overclocking and reaching temps like 90 deg C, the CPU is a 0,5mm bent right on the crossing of those two pushers of the frame.
The problem occurred after a week of testing.

Use washers. It will not hurt your CPU IMHO, and it will prevent bending.
Cheers.
 
therealjustin

therealjustin

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ADVenturePO said:
Hello Dear ASUS users.

A company that makes workstations here.
I've made 12x LGA1700 Workstations 12700k x8 12600k x4 and I was testing 12900k.
Boards were ASUS TUF z690 Plus, z690 Strix-A, z690 APEX. Since TUF - my first MB for LGA1700,
I'm always using black metal 1mm washers - under socket holder. It works every time. I was checking CPU's after overclocking - none has bended.
Today I have returned from my friends home. With CPU 12900k SP90 ... bent like a banana. No he didn't use washers.
The problem is that the MB is not working properly. There couldn't be very excessive force as it was mounted with Liquid Freezer II 360.
But after overclocking and reaching temps like 90 deg C, the CPU is a 0,5mm bent right on the crossing of those two pushers of the frame.
The problem occurred after a week of testing.

Use washers. It will not hurt your CPU IMHO, and it will prevent bending.
Cheers.
Click to expand...
Any recommendations as to which type or brand of washers to use?
 
P

pavel

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Messages
481
ADVenturePO said:
Hello Dear ASUS users.

A company that makes workstations here.
I've made 12x LGA1700 Workstations 12700k x8 12600k x4 and I was testing 12900k.
Boards were ASUS TUF z690 Plus, z690 Strix-A, z690 APEX. Since TUF - my first MB for LGA1700,
I'm always using black metal 1mm washers - under socket holder. It works every time. I was checking CPU's after overclocking - none has bended.
Today I have returned from my friends home. With CPU 12900k SP90 ... bent like a banana. No he didn't use washers.
The problem is that the MB is not working properly. There couldn't be very excessive force as it was mounted with Liquid Freezer II 360.
But after overclocking and reaching temps like 90 deg C, the CPU is a 0,5mm bent right on the crossing of those two pushers of the frame.
The problem occurred after a week of testing.

Use washers. It will not hurt your CPU IMHO, and it will prevent bending.
Cheers.
Click to expand...
I recently received delivery of the Tuf Gaming Z690-Plus Wifi DD4. I bought a nylon washers kit on Amazon. I'll be trying the washer mod.

therealjustin said:
Any recommendations as to which type or brand of washers to use?
Click to expand...
I didn't want to wait too long - since I practically have all my parts now - well, I could buy additional fans at this point but wanted to make sure I had the washers. Therefore, I didn't get one of those 50 pc kits. Instead, I ordered a mixed washer kit - so, I got an excess number including sizes I don't need. I believe I got 80 pieces of the M4, 8mm (OD)/4mm (ID), 1mm thick (width) size - which should be sufficient for the 4 washers needed. They're flat nylon washers. I didn't want to use metal (usually stainless steel). I looked at stainless steel washers in a Home Depot - I could have bought singles for way less money. These had some rough edges - burrs? There was no way I was going to use those! Make sure to check the edges if you decide to use metal washers. You might need to sand them down a bit (fine metal sand paper).
Edit: I'm planning to use a digital caliper to check the measurements - and use 4 washers that are at (closest) spec.
 
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chameleoneel

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I got two of the Thermalright BCF (Bending Corrector Frame) from this ebay seller:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/144551376159?var=443823240011
they each came with a good amount of TF7 thermal paste, as well.

at the time I purchased, it was less than $22 shipped, for 2 of them.
I haven't installed them yet. My goal isn't for better temps (my Alderlake temps are great), but to help prevent long term bending of the motherboard.
 
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brennok

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Looks like Thermal Grizzly is selling something similar now. Timestamp 21:18 in case it doesn't carry over.
 
Niner21

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chameleoneel said:
I got two of the Thermalright BCF (Bending Corrector Frame) from this ebay seller:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/144551376159?var=443823240011
they each came with a good amount of TF7 thermal paste, as well.

at the time I purchased, it was less than $22 shipped, for 2 of them.
I haven't installed them yet. My goal isn't for better temps (my Alderlake temps are great), but to help prevent long term bending of the motherboard.
Click to expand...
I ended up getting one myself. Not sure when/if I'll use it, but got one just in case. My temps are fine as well.
 
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RogueTrip

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How are those Thermalright BCF turning out?


Ordered one on ebay but gonna be about a week for delivery.
 
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chameleoneel

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RogueTrip said:
How are those Thermalright BCF turning out?


Ordered one on ebay but gonna be about a week for delivery.
Click to expand...
I will be installing one sometime next week, on a system I am building around an Asus B660M Plus Wifi D4 with a 12600k.

Will probably do my existing 12700k ITX system shortly after. It has an Asrock Z690 Phantom Gaming-ITX/TB4.
 
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RogueTrip

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My Thermalright BCF came in yesterday. Looks nice, Installed just fine.

Decided to use the included TF7 thermal paste and seeing nice low idle temps of 28~34c. Load with prime 266 is high at 96~97c, will need to swap some different paste and looks like Arctic MX-5 is the paste to buy.

Scythe Mugen 5 rev.b with lga-1700 kit and 2 PWM fans.
Intel i7 12700K stock clocks
MSI Pro Z690-A DDR4
Bios has Enhanced turbo enabled, under-volt of 85mV.

Crappy cellphone pics :eek:
 

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chameleoneel

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RogueTrip said:
My Thermalright BCF came in yesterday. Looks nice, Installed just fine.

Decided to use the included TF7 thermal paste and seeing nice low idle temps of 28~34c. Load with prime 266 is high at 96~97c, will need to swap some different paste and looks like Arctic MX-5 is the paste to buy.

Scythe Mugen 5 rev.b with lga-1700 kit and 2 PWM fans.
Intel i7 12700K stock clocks
MSI Pro Z690-A DDR4
Bios has Enhanced turbo enabled, under-volt of 85mV.

Crappy cellphone pics :eek:
Click to expand...
TF7 is good paste. MX5 will be no improvement. There are a couple of pastes which might give you ~ 2C better temps. But since you already have the TF7, its not really worth it.

Your issue is that the Mugen 5 rev. b isn't sufficient for a full Prime Load on a 12700k. But....Prime is an unrealistic stress load. I would look at your temps and nosie while doing the things you would normally with your computer and then decide if you need a better heatsink.

I have had a Mugen 5 Rev. b for a few years, BTW. Had it cooling a few different processors. Most recent was a 11700 non-k.. Its been in a box for awhile, but soon it will be cooling a 12600 for some kids. I think I'm going to sand the base to be level, too. Its known to be a pretty convex base.
 
Niner21

Niner21

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RogueTrip said:
My Thermalright BCF came in yesterday. Looks nice, Installed just fine.

Decided to use the included TF7 thermal paste and seeing nice low idle temps of 28~34c. Load with prime 266 is high at 96~97c, will need to swap some different paste and looks like Arctic MX-5 is the paste to buy.

Scythe Mugen 5 rev.b with lga-1700 kit and 2 PWM fans.
Intel i7 12700K stock clocks
MSI Pro Z690-A DDR4
Bios has Enhanced turbo enabled, under-volt of 85mV.

Crappy cellphone pics :eek:
Click to expand...
Good to know. I received mine a while ago and have yet to even think about using the BCF yet. I may use it when I upgrade to Raptor Lake, but not needed right now with the temps I have been getting with the stock LOTES mechanism.
 
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RogueTrip

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youtube video - Ysb25vsNBQI

I watched that youtube video yesterday, I was a bit irked that the 21 minute mark they he said he would not test any of the "cheaper" alternatives and that to me feels anti-competitive as they are buddies with der8auer that works with Thermal Grizzly. They did post later that they might test those "cheaper" alternatives due to fanbase complaining. :cool:

Doubt Thermalrights BCF are any worse than Thermal Grizzly's
 
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chameleoneel

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RogueTrip said:
youtube video - Ysb25vsNBQI

I watched that youtube video yesterday, I was a bit irked that the 21 minute mark they he said he would not test any of the "cheaper" alternatives and that to me feels anti-competitive as they are buddies with der8auer that works with Thermal Grizzly. They did post later that they might test those "cheaper" alternatives due to fanbase complaining. :cool:

Doubt Thermalrights BCF are any worse than Thermal Grizzly's
Click to expand...
I think der8auer has a patent claim on it. I dunno if its pending or fully granted. But I heard he was really mad at Thermalright. I dunno if that has anything to do with GN's comments in that video.
 
TheHig

TheHig

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The Thermal Grizzly is 36 bucks if you can find it and I’m not opposed to paying a premium for it to support them. Maybe Thermalright ripped it off or maybe not but how many ways can a hunk of metal be milled to exactly for the socket and cpu in this case? Any other such product would probably infringe on a patent if Der Bauer has one wouldn’t it?
 
kirbyrj

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chameleoneel

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StraightDown said:
Hello,
I was browsing Amazon & co and I stumbled upon some references:
https://www.amazon.fr/s?k=correcteur+de+flexion+PC&__mk_fr_FR=ÅMÅŽÕÑ&ref=nb_sb_noss
The "problem" that I have is that it's mainly unknown Chinese brands, how safe is it?

There is the Thermalright from Aliexpress that's probably safe. I'm aware of the Grizzly version, but it's €50...
Click to expand...
This is the thermalright
https://www.amazon.fr/Fixation-Correction-correcteur-courbure-LGA1700-BCF/dp/B0B1ZZGF8M/ref=sr_1_7?__mk_fr_FR=ÅMÅŽÕÑ&keywords=correcteur+de+flexion+PC&qid=1657591312&sr=8-7

But, check ebay. I got 2 thermalright on ebay, for about $22 shipped.
 
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StraightDown

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Genuine question, is there a reason to buy two frames? Anyway, thanks for the confirmation that it is the Thermalright.

Edit: In case it can help someone, it's available here for €10 + free shipping to Europe.
 
Last edited:
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chameleoneel

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StraightDown said:
Genuine question, is there a reason to buy two frames? Anyway, thanks for the confirmation that it is the Thermalright.

Edit: In case it can help someone, it's available here for €10 + free shipping to Europe.
Click to expand...
For my PC and another PC which I am building for some kids.
 
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pavel

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kirbyrj said:
I would think it would be fine. It's probably made at the same place as the Thermalright.
Click to expand...
I just checked ebay - I don't use ebay.com - many of the items on there - the vendors won't ship to my country. So, on ebay - there's so many of these! I hope the QC is adequate. As for the Grizzly/De8auer - do they really think there would be no 'Chinese knock-offs' at least? Perhaps, if they didn't charge an arm and a leg - they wouldn't have other companies with comparable products.

I will buy one somewhat soon - I guess I'll need to take the air cooler off - whenever I switch to liquid and eventually, I want another M.2 nvme pcie 3.0 or 4.0 ssd for a Linux OS. So, I'll need to take the M.2 heat sinks off and what not.

I'm currently using the washer mod to avoid the board/IHS bending. I hope I avoided the bending. :) I did the washer mod when I did the build.
 
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StraightDown

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So, I just received the frame and it came with the thermal paste called "TF7" (by Thermalright). I wanted to know if this paste was any good? If it could mean not buying a new tube, I'd be happy.
 
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vegeta535

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StraightDown said:
So, I just received the frame and it came with the thermal paste called "TF7" (by Thermalright). I wanted to know if this paste was any good? If it could mean not buying a new tube, I'd be happy.
Click to expand...
It is fine. Not the best nor the worst. You are looking a maybe 2c different between all the top pastes.
 
kirbyrj

kirbyrj

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StraightDown said:
I did read some reviews but I wanted to ask here anyway, because most reviews don't give any measurements, hence the question.

Great then, thanks.
Click to expand...

It's okay. I mean essentially you're getting it as a throw in and it's not a full 2g either I don't think. I used it on a 12600K and it doesn't seem like the temperature is out of normal range.
 
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StraightDown

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kirbyrj said:
It's okay. I mean essentially you're getting it as a throw in and it's not a full 2g either I don't think. I used it on a 12600K and it doesn't seem like the temperature is out of normal range.
Click to expand...
Perfect then, I'm gonna use it on a 12600K too. Thanks
 
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serpretetsky

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I'm not intimately familiar with the issue of Alder Lake bending. If you have a nice heatsink with a beefy backplate can you just remove the ILM completely and just have the heatsink provide all of the pressure (kindof more like what servers do, where they dont have an ILM) ?
 
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Furious_Styles

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serpretetsky said:
I'm not intimately familiar with the issue of Alder Lake bending. If you have a nice heatsink with a beefy backplate can you just remove the ILM completely and just have the heatsink provide all of the pressure (kindof more like what servers do, where they dont have an ILM) ?
Click to expand...
The ILM makes sure the socket pins make good contact with the CPU. So you have to be able to screw it down enough for it to do the same. And then you need to be careful over-tightening the HSF, I have seen lots of people who damaged their mobo traces by going too far.
 
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Falkentyne

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serpretetsky said:
I'm not intimately familiar with the issue of Alder Lake bending. If you have a nice heatsink with a beefy backplate can you just remove the ILM completely and just have the heatsink provide all of the pressure (kindof more like what servers do, where they dont have an ILM) ?
Click to expand...

Absolutely not.
You won't have enough pressure on the pins, so you're going to have stability issues, especially with memory, even if it posts (people had the same problems trying to use direct die without a proper mount).
But what's much, much worse, is the CPU being unsecured in the socket. Eventually you're going to have to remove the heatsink, or even if you find that you messed up. And without a proper clamp, you're almost certain to risk bent pins!
 
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serpretetsky

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Falkentyne said:
But what's much, much worse, is the CPU being unsecured in the socket. Eventually you're going to have to remove the heatsink, or even if you find that you messed up. And without a proper clamp, you're almost certain to risk bent pins!
Click to expand...
Why's that? If you try to remove the heatsink the cpu will just be lifted with 0 resistance since it will be stuck to the heatsink because the thermal paste will keep it attached. Or do you mean without the ILM there is actually nothing present to align the CPU to the socket? Hmm.. i just looked at some pics of alder lake sockets, it looks like if you remove the ILM there are still is still a plastic alignment socket?

I'm assuming the main problem is either heatsinks dont allow you to put enough pressure, or like Furious_Styles mentioned, they do allow it, but there is no safe way to know how much pressure to apply.
 
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Falkentyne

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serpretetsky said:
Why's that? If you try to remove the heatsink the cpu will just be lifted with 0 resistance since it will be stuck to the heatsink because the thermal paste will keep it attached. Or do you mean without the ILM there is actually nothing present to align the CPU to the socket? Hmm.. i just looked at some pics of alder lake sockets, it looks like if you remove the ILM there are still is still a plastic alignment socket?
Click to expand...
Don't risk it. There's already people on OCN who bent their pins doing exactly this.
 
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