Are we going to see good Intel processors anymore?

Mega6

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so i basically effed myself bugger. i had 5 Titan X gpus in my hoard. but built systems and sold em for round the 2k mark, with 9900ks, illl just have to make due with my measly 1070ti for now then itll have to hold on till i can snag a upgrade. was hoping it'd be like using a rocket launcher on a mosquito by using AI to Thwart bots.

but maybe in 2022 etailers will have evolved enough to slow tide of bots buying up inventory like you said. better coding and being able to real time check if someone is buying gpus in milliseconds compared to legitimate users taking maybe 1-2 mins to go though process.
The problem is, vendors really have zero incentive and it requires that evil four letter word called "work", better known as money and effort. It's optimistic to say that most all vendors will insert anti-bot code on their webservers. There are discord notifications and some people are selling bots to regular users.
 

vegeta535

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To not give up your higher profit margin skews, not sure what kind of contract AMD has with Sony and Microsoft plus the relationship on the development of the Consoles in which the R&D helped AMD maybe for their GPUs. AMD is missing sells on both; their GPUs which is most likely a way higher profit margin product and especially their CPUs where their profit margin is probably over the top. Anyways when you are forced to make and sell your lower profit margin items and have to limit your other items -> investors take notice. Their last financial call this was brought up several times plus AMD was not clear if in the near future the constraint on production will be lifted. Meaning at least to me their is a clear limit in how much more AMD can expand with current conditions -> Hence the large fall in their stock price after the call regardless of their stellar year. AMD, well recent rumors dealing with Samsung while it can be good is also not an immediate remedy either and also makes some probably think TSMC is not in position to make much more AMD chips. Just my thoughts at this time.
Well AMD benefited a lot from Sony and MS. I read before that both companies helped design a lot of the feature sets in 6xxx GPUs. They might not of been as good as they are with out Sony/MS.
 

kensiko

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Intel is big and has a grasp on on a lot of markets. They will come back at one point. However monopoly is bad for everyone so I'm happy for AMD to finally come back, we will get better prices because of that. Intel has been sleeping during the FX-8350 era.
 

UnknownSouljer

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As a response to the OP (I didn't read all of the thread progression) I think Intel makes good processors now.

Intel for whatever its worth still has better platform stability in general than AMD (AMD has done a lot to catch up though). And if you want something that is competitive from a performance perspective, has great stability, and is quickly becoming the lower cost option - then Intel has you covered. They also do better a specific instruction sets and workloads. Although at this point it's mostly relegated to AVX512 at absolute performance, Intel is still more than competitive at other cost tiers (other than the top product/halo product segment). This is at the cost of absolute performance (AMD obviously on top here) and extreme heat (which enthusiasts either care or don't care about to varying degrees #punny).

I think the big problem with a lot of enthusiasts in general is they only look at the top of the product stack and then judge what they should buy based on that, when they really should examine their budget first and then see the options in that budget and how well they perform. This was a big problem for AMD as an example in the video card space with the RX480 vs 1050Ti. Because nVidia had the better halo card, people bought 1050Ti's despite the RX480 being faster for the same amount of money.

I should note though that I think for most, it's still worth it to stretch to move to AMD if you need more cores for any reason or you can afford a halo product. Intel will continue to be relevant for some time even if they're relegated to second place. If they can finally get their 10nm on track that will go a long way despite not hitting micron parity.
 

vick1000

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AI to stop bots? How ludicrous. They don't care who buys their stock, as long as they get their money. We are lucky some vendors place purchase limits on their inventory.
 

cjcox

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If someone asks me what to buy today, right now. I'd say with regards to availability, quality and reliability, it's going to be Intel. AMD still has some work to do.

Really fast, hard to get, temporary Ryzen is not what most people want. Noting that enthusiasts will be patient as they get their multi-thousand dollar setups completed.
 

Mega6

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LoL "Temporary Ryzen"

Temporary Intel with their constant useless socket changes
 

Nasgul

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Intel for whatever its worth still has better platform stability in general
I'd say with regards to availability, quality and reliability, it's going to be Intel.
Exactly why I keep going with Intel (ASUS, Western Digital, Corsair) if I build a system. The part of having of finding out if a certain memory kit will or will not work with my new system is SO OLD, it shouldn't be a concern these days, I mean........nobody worries about IRQ anymore, so why the memory concerns?

But I'm also going with longevity, I keep giving my old systems to family or friends and they are happy, my son who barely uses a PC has my old Q6600 system, my sister the 4690K and currently, I have a 7700K and 9900K and I'm going to build a 10600K because I'm bored out of my mind and I know I ain't going on vacation (meaning outside the country) this year and I got a bag of money burning my pocket, so I'm going, yet again, to build me a new Intel system. The same goes for video cards, thank God nVidia is not plagued with driver and overheating issues.

So, reliability, stability, and quality are never going to be a concern for going out of style when it comes to Intel. IMO, after all these years.

Let's just hope that when they come out with a new architecture and ends up being faster.............it's not going to send the competition back to the stone age for another 14-15 years. 15 YEARS!!!!! Hot Dang!!!
 

NightReaver

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I swear, "Ryzen memory" is going to be the next "Radeon drivers". Last I heard, 1st gen Ryzen was picky. What's the problem going on with 3000/5000 parts? I've owned both, and use whatever ram I want.
 

wandplus

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Yeah, I'm biased too because I'd prefer going Western Digital or Samsung for a SSD, Corsair or Seasonic for a PSU, Asrock or Asus for the motherboard, then Kingston HyperX for the RAM (or maybe Crucial Ballistix). I also choose Nvidia for graphics cards and Intel for processors (although I've used AMD and ATI in the past). For cases, I like Antec and Coolermaster (but willing to consider Thermaltake and Silverstone). (Also, brands for video cards might be Gigabyte, Asus or MSI but apart from EVGA those are the only major players there anyway. I still remember when Abit and DFI mobos were still around.)
 

vick1000

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Exactly why I keep going with Intel (ASUS, Western Digital, Corsair) if I build a system. The part of having of finding out if a certain memory kit will or will not work with my new system is SO OLD, it shouldn't be a concern these days, I mean........nobody worries about IRQ anymore, so why the memory concerns?

But I'm also going with longevity, I keep giving my old systems to family or friends and they are happy, my son who barely uses a PC has my old Q6600 system, my sister the 4690K and currently, I have a 7700K and 9900K and I'm going to build a 10600K because I'm bored out of my mind and I know I ain't going on vacation (meaning outside the country) this year and I got a bag of money burning my pocket, so I'm going, yet again, to build me a new Intel system. The same goes for video cards, thank God nVidia is not plagued with driver and overheating issues.

So, reliability, stability, and quality are never going to be a concern for going out of style when it comes to Intel. IMO, after all these years.

Let's just hope that when they come out with a new architecture and ends up being faster.............it's not going to send the competition back to the stone age for another 14-15 years. 15 YEARS!!!!! Hot Dang!!!
You realize Intel copied AMD to get back in the game after Neburst? They even licensed x64 instructions from AMD. On die MC...AMD first. Mukticore...AMD first. Intel has not innovated anything for a long time. Unless you consider putting the pins on the motherboard.
 

Comixbooks

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Intel Rocks to the Coffin Lake people compare the two like a bad relationship. I'm buying Alder Lake when its out going to skip Rocket Cake and just use Comet Lake.
 

cjcox

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LoL "Temporary Ryzen"

Temporary Intel with their constant useless socket changes
I do think the "release often" strategy is "right" for AMD ... at least for now. But, all the continual flux does make it difficult for an OEM to "keep up". And until there's a high volume outlet for pre-builts, there will never be a sustainable used market for AMD. I mean, we're just talking 4 years, and how many generations of Ryzen? Anyway, kudos to AMD for keeping the pedal to the floor.... but at some point, it's nice to have some stability. Now, are they pushing Intel in to "rapid change"? I think so. Which means Intel is being pushed back on their heels and losing control. Will that tilt things more in AMD's favor? Maybe so. We'll see. I'm just not seeing it yet. Intel still dominates the high volume channels (by a lot). I was hoping for more on the enterprise server side (which is somewhat better for AMD than desktop, but still not great today).

Intel releases "new chip of the day"-lake.... and there's channel availability of prebuilt configurable OEM desktops, laptops and servers shortly after. We're just not seeing that with AMD yet.
 

Mega6

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I do think the "release often" strategy is "right" for AMD ... at least for now. But, all the continual flux does make it difficult for an OEM to "keep up". And until there's a high volume outlet for pre-builts, there will never be a sustainable used market for AMD. I mean, we're just talking 4 years, and how many generations of Ryzen? Anyway, kudos to AMD for keeping the pedal to the floor.... but at some point, it's nice to have some stability. Now, are they pushing Intel in to "rapid change"? I think so. Which means Intel is being pushed back on their heels and losing control. Will that tilt things more in AMD's favor? Maybe so. We'll see. I'm just not seeing it yet. Intel still dominates the high volume channels (by a lot). I was hoping for more on the enterprise server side (which is somewhat better for AMD than desktop, but still not great today).

Intel releases "new chip of the day"-lake.... and there's channel availability of prebuilt configurable OEM desktops, laptops and servers shortly after. We're just not seeing that with AMD yet.
A three generation compatible MB is unheard of at Intel. If Ryzen memory such a big deal to you, then yeah you should probably stick with Intel and a pre-built box. Around here, that's pretty amateur though. I know 12 year olds that can figure it out.
 
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A three generation compatible MB is unheard of at Intel. If Ryzen memory such a big deal to you, then yeah you should probably stick with Intel and a pre-built box. Around here, that's pretty amateur though. I know 12 year olds that can figure it out.
Hmm pretty sure you chose the wrong person to flame on that one lol.
 

cjcox

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A three generation compatible MB is unheard of at Intel. If Ryzen memory such a big deal to you, then yeah you should probably stick with Intel and a pre-built box. Around here, that's pretty amateur though. I know 12 year olds that can figure it out.
Again, my statements are about the market as a whole and not the very niche market. So, "around here", presumably meaning infinite wallet depth, sure, you can build whatever.

In short, Ryzen focuses a lot on the enthusiast crowd where "long lived" components (motherboard or otherwise) maybe make the least amount of sense (?) YMMV
 

Nasgul

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You realize Intel copied AMD to get back in the game after Neburst? They even licensed x64 instructions from AMD. On die MC...AMD first. Mukticore...AMD first. Intel has not innovated anything for a long time. Unless you consider putting the pins on the motherboard.
Is that why amd was so innovative, refining, and cutting edge for 15 years straight? Or was it because Conroe buried them for 15 years? So, improving is "innovation", Intel created AGP, later replaced by PCI. And I wonder who created the "Northbridge"?
 

Mega6

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Again, my statements are about the market as a whole and not the very niche market. So, "around here", presumably meaning infinite wallet depth, sure, you can build whatever.

In short, Ryzen focuses a lot on the enthusiast crowd where "long lived" components (motherboard or otherwise) maybe make the least amount of sense (?) YMMV
Ryzen competes very well and even though the 5k seriies a bit less, 2k and 3k are still around to go head to head with i5 and i3. So that range is covered. You make too much any memory compatibility too. Ryzen is not a niche processor aimed at a niche market. If anything, it is intel that is niche with only the single thread performance to lean on. WIth 5k Ryzen that is now gone too.
 

kirbyrj

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Ryzen competes very well and even though the 5k seriies a bit less, 2k and 3k are still around to go head to head with i5 and i3. So that range is covered. You make too much any memory compatibility too. Ryzen is not a niche processor aimed at a niche market. If anything, it is intel that is niche with only the single thread performance to lean on. WIth 5k Ryzen that is now gone too.

I've used both for several generations. The Ryzen memory compatibility issues were largely addressed with the 2000 series (up to 3200Mhz) and the 3000 series (up to 3800Mhz or so) made them practically non-existent. Because of the way the Infinity Fabric is designed the extreme 4000+ memory speeds are going to be hampered unless you run a divider on the IF.

I wish AMD would release a cheaper 5000 series part (5600 non-x for $229?). Realistically, if a Rocket Lake 11400 is sub-$200 and has a 5000 series comparable ST performance, I'll probably buy one.
 

vick1000

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Is that why amd was so innovative, refining, and cutting edge for 15 years straight? Or was it because Conroe buried them for 15 years? So, improving is "innovation", Intel created AGP, later replaced by PCI. And I wonder who created the "Northbridge"?
Conroe was a direct result of AMD tech development AND deployment, that was my point. AMD put the MC on the chip, and drove multicore adoption industry wide. AMD stagnated without a doubt, I never claimed they kept innovating, simply that Intel copied AMD tech to get back in the game. AMD was kicking Intel's ass for almost a decade before Intel ditched Netburst. AGP and PCIe are not CPU tech which is what I was citing, that id I/O and there are several market innovators in that field.

I suppose you cuold make a case for SMT. But other than that, Intel's performance gains have come from larger cache and associated prediction, and of course higher clocks and more cores.
 
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Nasgul

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Conroe was a direct result of AMD tech development AND deployment, that was my point.
So when Intel comes out with a new architecture it would be a direct result of amd's tech development and deployment.......Interesting.
 

Nasgul

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Yeah, I'm biased too because I'd prefer going Western Digital or Samsung for a SSD, Corsair or Seasonic for a PSU, Asrock or Asus for the motherboard, then Kingston HyperX for the RAM (or maybe Crucial Ballistix). I also choose Nvidia for graphics cards and Intel for processors (although I've used AMD and ATI in the past). For cases, I like Antec and Coolermaster (but willing to consider Thermaltake and Silverstone). (Also, brands for video cards might be Gigabyte, Asus or MSI but apart from EVGA those are the only major players there anyway. I still remember when Abit and DFI mobos were still around.)
A company that provides reliable products in which you trust and know that you'll not encounter any issues and decide to be your primary choice is being "bias"? Nonsense.
I don't buy products from Antec, Thermaltake, gigabyte, Adata, team group, patriot, g.skill, crucial, (Dewalt, Behr paint, Japanese, and European cars) Fractal Design, and last and very least: AMD, because I consider them unreliable and mediocre. Even if I had a tree where the money would grow? I still wouldn't consider those brands.

There's nothing wrong with going with what you trust and know that will get the most reliable product your money can buy. That's being cautious, not "bias".
 

Choopyplz

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Japanese, and European cars

Lol. Also AMD has been mediocre for a long time IMO as well, but I wouldn't necessarily say that about Ryzen. If anything, that's a great change because Intel needed the competition.
 

sabrewolf732

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Conroe was a direct result of AMD tech development AND deployment, that was my point. AMD put the MC on the chip, and drove multicore adoption industry wide. AMD stagnated without a doubt, I never claimed they kept innovating, simply that Intel copied AMD tech to get back in the game. AMD was kicking Intel's ass for almost a decade before Intel ditched Netburst. AGP and PCIe are not CPU tech which is what I was citing, that id I/O and there are several market innovators in that field.

I suppose you cuold make a case for SMT. But other than that, Intel's performance gains have come from larger cache and associated prediction, and of course higher clocks and more cores.

SMT was Alpha's baby IIRC
 

wandplus

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A company that provides reliable products in which you trust and know that you'll not encounter any issues and decide to be your primary choice is being "bias"? Nonsense.
I don't buy products from Antec, Thermaltake, gigabyte, Adata, team group, patriot, g.skill, crucial, (Dewalt, Behr paint, Japanese, and European cars) Fractal Design, and last and very least: AMD, because I consider them unreliable and mediocre. Even if I had a tree where the money would grow? I still wouldn't consider those brands.

There's nothing wrong with going with what you trust and know that will get the most reliable product your money can buy. That's being cautious, not "bias".
Well, I was thinking along the lines of people who label everyone as an "Intel fanboy" or "Nvidia fanboy" etc.
 

DanNeely

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SMT was Alpha's baby IIRC

Sort of. As is often the case, the history is messy...

IBM researchers invented the concept back in the 60s as part of an R&D program that also invented many other features of modern CPUs; an Alpha chip was the first commercial part to implement it in hardware, but was never released due to the entire line being discontinued; which meant that Intel's P4 chips were the first to put it on the market.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simultaneous_multithreading#Historical_implementations
 

vick1000

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So when Intel comes out with a new architecture it would be a direct result of amd's tech development and deployment.......Interesting.
When they implement AMD tech advances into it, including AMD instruction sets? Yup. Are you just that much of a fanboi that you are not able to admit it, or are you ignorant to the facts of history?
 

enzolt

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Brought to market by Intel. Which is my point, AMD brought tech to market that Intel copied to get back in the fight for IPC and overall performance.
I dont really see a reason for you to use provocative words. Intel and AMD have always out-innovated and overall became each other's benchmark. Its called competition.
What is happening now isnt anything new and has always been the case with Intel and AMD.

AMD wouldnt have CPU's if it wasn't for Intel's x86. x86-64 instruction extension is cross-licensed between AMD and Intel.

Again, be careful saying
Are you just that much of a fanboi that you are not able to admit it, or are you ignorant to the facts of history?
when clearly you're becoming the very person you are preaching against.
 

vick1000

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I dont really see a reason for you to use provocative words. Intel and AMD have always out-innovated and overall became each other's benchmark. Its called competition.
What is happening now isnt anything new and has always been the case with Intel and AMD.

AMD wouldnt have CPU's if it wasn't for Intel's x86. x86-64 instruction extension is cross-licensed between AMD and Intel.

Again, be careful saying

when clearly you're becoming the very person you are preaching against.
Have you followed the thread? The user Nasgul is the fanboi bragging about Intel dominating AMD for 15 years. I don't care, I actually like Intel more than AMD at the moment. I realize though, that the 15 year period he is refering to, was due to AMD innovation being implemented by Intel. He is being snarky or is ignorant to the history of CPU development.
 

OrangeKhrush

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Intel need someone like Lisa su, su took over a dire situation but always did whatever it took to maximise the situation. Zen was a goldmine and Lisa su doesn't seem content with just enough, this resonates through AMD and there will be no coasting through. Intel seems to be behind the eight ball and AMD are responsible for that.

alder lake looks like a decent low core count CPU loaded up with under powered small cores but 24 threads seems like the 5800X is to much to handle in threaded mashing the 5900 family is out of alder lakes league and looks like Intel is conceding the high performance thread war maybe a return to 4/8 and 6/12 with small cores helping a little.

Lisasu has Intel by the balls and there is no sign of AMD being content with just selling something.
 

vick1000

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Intel need someone like Lisa su, su took over a dire situation but always did whatever it took to maximise the situation. Zen was a goldmine and Lisa su doesn't seem content with just enough, this resonates through AMD and there will be no coasting through. Intel seems to be behind the eight ball and AMD are responsible for that.

alder lake looks like a decent low core count CPU loaded up with under powered small cores but 24 threads seems like the 5800X is to much to handle in threaded mashing the 5900 family is out of alder lakes league and looks like Intel is conceding the high performance thread war maybe a return to 4/8 and 6/12 with small cores helping a little.

Lisasu has Intel by the balls and there is no sign of AMD being content with just selling something.
The problem for AMD, is core count is only going to take them so far in Windows apps. They have already run into a wall with Threadripper and the Windows scheduler, so main stream is not going to be using 12/24 anytime soon. If they rest on their success, like with Athlon 64, they could end up in another Bulldozer situation. They can't mess up with the next generation with poor design choices, yet they still need to innovate more than adding cache/ cores.
 

Kardonxt

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Not to poopoo AMD's achievements but IMHO the current reason Ryzen is so competitive has more to do with Intel screwing up their fab tech royally. The fact that their CPUs are still "close enough" for gamers while being on 14+++++++++++++++++++ is sort of impressive on it's own.

AMD is doing everything they can to widen the gap before Intel can get their fabs sorted out. The real test will come after that. I don't care who comes out ahead then, I'm just excited to see what kind of performance we see.
 

cpufrost

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I'd like to see a mobile chip that can at least match Apple's M1 now.
My M1 Macbook Pro absolutely annihilates my Dell XPS 13 9370.
Even more amazing is the Mac suffers no performance drop when running on battery and speaking of battery the runtime is unmatched.
(Intel) has a lot of catching up to do.
 

Mega6

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I'd like to see a mobile chip that can at least match Apple's M1 now.
My M1 Macbook Pro absolutely annihilates my Dell XPS 13 9370.
Even more amazing is the Mac suffers no performance drop when running on battery and speaking of battery the runtime is unmatched.
(Intel) has a lot of catching up to do.
How about custom M1 adware?
 

cpufrost

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Not concerned about that, network is completely scanned before anything touches private subnets. ;-)
The users that allow anything to run (scripts) and surrender root creds continuously to allow things to install/update? Well as Forrest Gump says "Stupid is as stupid does"!!!
 

Mega6

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I'd like to see a mobile chip that can at least match Apple's M1 now.
My M1 Macbook Pro absolutely annihilates my Dell XPS 13 9370.
Even more amazing is the Mac suffers no performance drop when running on battery and speaking of battery the runtime is unmatched.
(Intel) has a lot of catching up to do.
Just curious - match it what?
 

KazeoHin

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Intel is in a Slump

Anyone who has been in the game for a while knows how this ends:

1: Intel is a defacto standard
2: Intel gets lazy because of this
3: AMD makes a better product and turns some heads
4: AMD gains traction
5: Intel does shady shit to push AMD back down
6: Intel pulls their shit together and makes a good product
7: Return to 1:

We're on Step 4. just give it a few months.
 
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