Are souls type games your cup of tea?

[KickAssCop]

Do people actually enjoy these games? I have tried Dark Souls, Demon Souls and Nioh. Most recently I tried Elden Ring.

For me the game was a janky mess. Half the time you are dodge rolling. Other time you are running and regen. And there is that 20 second window when you strike. I am not talking about the usual adds but the bosses or semi bosses. I uninstalled after 2+ hours and am not sure I want to continue.

Coming from God of War the gameplay seemed archaic. The constant respawns also killed my motivation or of feeling any progress. Controls with keyboard and mouse were also super painful.

Plus having a dragon and a horse rider that one shots you in first 40 mins is probably not the best intro to the game.

Finally, to learn something you actually have to read wiki and watch videos. I have a job. I don’t have time for this much research to “try and enjoy a game”.

Why is Elden Ring heralded as GOTY is beyond my understanding. Do people call this enjoyment?

Just a neutral poll to see what general population thinks about games like these? Maybe I am too old for this shit?

P.S. I watched the end boss fight. If that is payoff for playing the game I don’t want anything to do with it.

 

[vegeta535]

No. I don't enjoy anvil dicking for hours to beat one boss.

 

[Armenius]

Dark Souls and Dark Souls Remastered have received the most play time from me out of any game released in the past decade. Dark Souls III is a close second. I absolutely love them.

For me the game was a janky mess. Half the time you are dodge rolling. Other time you are running and regen. And there is that 20 second window when you strike. I am not talking about the usual adds but the bosses or semi bosses. I uninstalled after 2+ hours and am not sure I want to continue.

Timing and learning the dance is a part of any game, particularly those with real time action. It's just stricter in these games.

Coming from God of War the gameplay seemed archaic. The constant respawns also killed my motivation or of feeling any progress. Controls with keyboard and mouse were also super painful.

I don't feel God of War 2018 is really any different than Dark Souls. There is a reason so many ARPGs are influenced by Dark Souls these days, including the God of War reboot.

Your progress in the Souls series is gained through the equipment governed by your stats. It's not all that different from classic RPGs. Having trouble? Grind out some Soul levels and upgrade your equipment.

I always recommend playing Souls and Soulslike games with a controller.

Plus having a dragon and a horse rider that one shots you in first 40 mins is probably not the best intro to the game.

These enemies are to teach the player a lesson that it is not always wise to engage every enemy you come across the first time. Running or avoiding them is always an option.

Finally, to learn something you actually have to read wiki and watch videos. I have a job. I don’t have time for this much research to “try and enjoy a game”.

No, you don't. You can learn everything you need by reading the descriptions on items and spells in the game itself. The only thing that you really miss is some of the quests with more intricate timing. It wasn't really an issue with earlier Souls games, but admittedly Elden Ring cranks the issue up to 11. I don't think most players will experience 90% of the side quests in the game playing it naturally. I was frankly disappointed by how much I missed running through the game the first time.

Why is Elden Ring heralded as GOTY is beyond my understanding. Do people call this enjoyment?

For me it is the large and beautiful open world with streamlined Souls mechanics. There is always something new to find, and the game doesn't hold your hand like so many other modern games do.

Just a neutral poll to see what general population thinks about games like these? Maybe I am too old for this shit?

No, it's just not your cup of tea as you put in your thread title. And that's okay. You don't need to like every game that is popular. I don't like MOBAs or Battle Royale.

P.S. I watched the end boss fight. If that is payoff for playing the game I don’t want anything to do with it.

It's about the journey, not the destination.

 

[KickAssCop]

Thanks for the post. I wasn't looking for direct responses to my "complaints". It was more a rant of my experience. I am sure there are ways to beat the game or "enjoy" it as countless people seem to be doing.

 

[horse]

I've never actually played any of them and most likely never will. They all seem pretty generic to me, and Elden Ring is a big ole meh to me as well. All the ten out of ten reviews are laughable, as well as all the gaming urinalists proclaiming it game of the year (trying to stay relevant, I guess) . In general, all of the worship of these games is unreal. That's cool if Fromsoft is your favorite dev and the Souls games are your favorite games ever also, but I don't get it, personally.

I will say, I do like the looks of Demon's Souls remake and like the creepy gothic atmosphere of Bloodbourne, being a fan HPL's fiction. I'd really like to see a PC port/remake of it. Also I would really like to play Sekiro, but even a $30 sale price is to much money for me to want to give to Trashtivision.

As for souls-like games in general I've only ever played The Surge 1 and 2, and they are now some of my favorites of recent times and probably severely underrated. Very cool mechanics and very technical gameplay and not overly frustrating bosses. Most others will have a hard time besting them for me personally. I've looked through countless other soulslike games since playing those and everything else seems pretty meh tbh.

 

[Domingo]

I'm a big fan. I appreciate the challenge along with having so many ways to go about winning. Even though I don't care for the actual PvP aspect in the games, they feel a bit like a fighting game/RPG hybrid. That's right up my alley.

 

[Okatis]

Not Souls but Sekiro and Elden Ring.

 

[Armenius]

Not Souls but Sekiro and Elden Ring.

Sekiro is nothing like Soulsbornering.

 

[chameleoneel]

Do people actually enjoy these games? I have tried Dark Souls, Demon Souls and Nioh. Most recently I tried Elden Ring.

For me the game was a janky mess. Half the time you are dodge rolling. Other time you are running and regen. And there is that 20 second window when you strike. I am not talking about the usual adds but the bosses or semi bosses. I uninstalled after 2+ hours and am not sure I want to continue.

Coming from God of War the gameplay seemed archaic. The constant respawns also killed my motivation or of feeling any progress. Controls with keyboard and mouse were also super painful.

Plus having a dragon and a horse rider that one shots you in first 40 mins is probably not the best intro to the game.

Finally, to learn something you actually have to read wiki and watch videos. I have a job. I don’t have time for this much research to “try and enjoy a game”.

Why is Elden Ring heralded as GOTY is beyond my understanding. Do people call this enjoyment?

Just a neutral poll to see what general population thinks about games like these? Maybe I am too old for this shit?

P.S. I watched the end boss fight. If that is payoff for playing the game I don’t want anything to do with it.

1. I do agree that the bosses have become a little too indulgent, compared to what the player can actually do. And having several multi-stage bosses, only adds to the divide. A lot of it comes down to the player character's pretty limited options for mobility and defense Vs. bosses which are obviously trying to demand more than what is possible.

I really hope for any new content, they think hard about how to make fights more dynamic and engaging, within the limits of movement for the player character. Usually, each game will have a couple of enemies which seem to be mimmicking what its like to fight another human player. and I would like to see more of that. Some sort of hybrid character which is a mix of the dynamics of a real human, but with some focus put into their fighting pattern----and that focus should be on what is fun to face off against. Not what is going to be outright difficult and require timing and memorization.

2. And on the topic of movement for the player character: I personally think that Elden Ring is a couple of steps back, from Dark Souls 3. The game speed is a lot slower. Input delay is higher. Overall, its not nearly as snappy on the inputs and overall feel. and it isn't nearly as enjoyable to literally control.

3. Having a few large enemies near the very beginning of the game, is an immediate way to teach you that you don't have to and shouldn't try to kill every single enemy you see. And especially not the first time you see them (because you may not have the skill or the stats, to win). That has sort of always been the case for Souls games. But, all of the previous games are pretty linear. So at some point, you more/less have to fight stuff. Elden Ring is gigantic. You can go to any number of places and directions, at any moment. You don't have to fight in any particular direction, unless you really want to. Its one of the most important distictions for Elden Ring, compared to the Souls games.

4. In general, the Souls games are very high quality. They have flaws. But, they also do a lot of amazing stuff----which no other dev has yet figured out how to truly mimmick. Elden Ring is GoTY, because it takes those aspects and melds it with a huge, imaginative open world, worth exploring. And it adds a lot of options to help make the game more accessible than ever. And flesh out your ability to approach the open world. Even though I dislike how the game controls and feels, compared to Dark Souls 3. It is otherwise a very impressive evolution, which feels like more than just saying that word "evolution".

My only other complaint with Elden Ring, is that there are a lot of filler side bosses which either aren't interesting at all. Or they are copy/pasted a few times throughout the game. And that has always been a tired way to make games.

**overall, my most fave in the series is the first, Demon's Souls. I haven't played the remake. But, I have seen enough to say its worthy.

Dark Souls is of course, great. But I enjoy playing Dark Souls 3 a lot, because it is so snappy and refined. With faster game speed, like Demon's Souls.

I've never actually played any of them and most likely never will. They all seem pretty generic to me, and Elden Ring is a big ole meh to me as well. All the ten out of ten reviews are laughable, as well as all the gaming urinalists proclaiming it game of the year (trying to stay relevant, I guess) . In general, all of the worship of these games is unreal. That's cool if Fromsoft is your favorite dev and the Souls games are your favorite games ever also, but I don't get it, personally.

Generic?-----These games are lauded for having a very creative and unique feel to the art and lore. and really, they took a lot of ideas from western games like Diablo, but advanced or iterated on those ideas, to create a new kind of game, which now is recognized as its own sub-genre. And 6 games later (7 if you count Sekiro), it really is its own force. And has the sales numbers, critical ratings, and player ratings, to reinforce all that.

All this said, its totally fine if any of you don't like it/don't want to play. I do not enjoy RTS games, at all. And even though there are a lot of similarities in the DNA----I don't enjoy loot based dungeon crawlers such as Grim Dawn, Diablo, Path of Exile, etc.

 

[Okatis]

Sekiro is nothing like Soulsbornering.

It shares the trademark death spawns retrievable item mechanic, some similar bosses (also various animations re-used directly for Elden Ring mini and main bosses) and difficulty. Doesn't share the same combat and greater RPG-ness though. Mentioned since difficulty is one sticking point with their games yet Sekiro drawns one in with it's beautiful designs. Elden Ring to a lesser extent but it's a more consistent overall game.

 

[Flogger23m]

No. This is the type of game that relies on poor inconsistent animations "because of timing", where an NPC doesn't have to physically touch you to do damage. I cannot stand those types of games. I also hate games that don't offer a proper save system and these things tend to require you to run around and back track to save which will then respawn enemies. Negating the entire purpose of saving the game. Need to stop playing? Put 30 minutes aside to save your progress. Then the next time you play, spend another 30 minutes re-doing what you already did. Extreme repetition and HP sponges aren't good game design.

They also don't appear to have much of a narrative in general.

I never understood the appeal of these things. I've watched lots of Dark Souls gameplay and it is essentially praised for being a poorly designed game. They struck gold though. They can objectively make a dozen knock offs (Bloodborne, Die Twice etc.) of sloppy products and continue selling them. It would be like selling sand for $200 a pound in Saudi Arabia.

 

[chameleoneel]

No. This is the type of game that relies on poor inconsistent animations "because of timing", where an NPC doesn't have to physically touch you to do damage. I cannot stand those types of games. I also hate games that don't offer a proper save system and these things tend to require you to run around and back track to save which will then respawn enemies. Negating the entire purpose of saving the game. Need to stop playing? Put 30 minutes aside to save your progress. Then the next time you play, spend another 30 minutes re-doing what you already did. Extreme repetition and HP sponges aren't good game design.

They also don't appear to have much of a narrative in general.

I never understood the appeal of these things. I've watched lots of Dark Souls gameplay and it is essentially praised for being a poorly designed game. They struck gold though. They can objectively make a dozen knock offs (Bloodborne, Die Twice etc.) of sloppy products and continue selling them. It would be like selling sand for $200 a pound in Saudi Arabia.

The Souls games auto-save after basically every single action you take. and if for some reason it hasn't saved----it will save, the moment you exit the game. and when you start the game again, you will be exactly where you were standing, when you left. It has been that way since Demon's Souls in 2008.

In terms of damage from NPCs: generally, they do have to "touch" you or their magic/projectile has to touch you. There are usually a few attacks with some hidden hitboxes. But, overall, its very much based on specific contact.

 

[Armenius]

The Souls games auto-save after basically every single action you take. and if for some reason it hasn't save----it will save, the moment you exit the game. and when you start the game again, you will be exactly where you were standing, when you left. It has been that way since Demon's Souls in 2008.

In terms of damage from NPCs: generally, they do have to "touch" you or their magic/projectile has to touch you. There are usually a few attacks with some hidden hitboxes. But, overall, its very much based on specific contact.

Ja, you never needed to touch a bonfire or equivalent to save your game. Simply pressing the "start" button on your controller or Esc on your keyboard will force an autosave.

 

[Domingo]

There aren't too many instances where you get hit by invisible hitboxes in the Souls games. At least the ones from Fromsoft. They often take frame-perfect timing to dodge (and feel inconsistent as a result), but you do usually legitimately take the hit most of the time. I especially noticed that with God of War, where it felt like I was getting hit by things that looked like they whiffed rather often.

 

[Yippee38]

I've only play the original Dark Souls. I really like it, though it's a horrible console port. Mods help fix that though. I enjoy difficult games. Easy games don't give me any satisfaction when I beat them. If I play them, I grow bored and quit quickly. So I like the challenge of them. Never played Elden Ring.

 

[M76]

I only tried nioh2, and it was a mess. I couldn't even defeat the first non-peasant enemy. Things just happened so fast I couldn't even see when and how I got hit, or how to avoid it, it's like having to perform a QTE, but without cues.
I hate games with a learning curve, a game should be fun, and not something you need to devote time to mastering. If the gameplay is not intuitive and straightforward enough that you can learn it within a short tutorial, then I'm not interested.

 

[Comixbooks]

I like them if they are done right if the are too hard I hate them reason why I'm skipping Wo Long. Picked up Wild Hearts instead. Thymesia is about Hard as I like Souls clones to be.

 

[polonyc2]

From Software is my favorite developer and all of their games since DS1 are some of my favorite games of all time...the difficulty only applies to your very first Souls game when everything is new and you're learning the mechanics and gameplay...once you've mastered that then you can apply that to all future From Soft games...the difficulty is also overstated (certain bosses will still be very challenging in every new game)...it's the experience- best in class level design, enemy design, combat, fashion Souls, gorgeous settings, multiplayer pvp, replay value etc

wandering through a Souls game or Sekiro or Elden Ring for the first time is one of the best gaming experiences...they now even have their own genre- Souls like!...but no one has come close to replicating the Souls experience...I haven't tried the Nioh games yet but I want to because of the combat (various stances) but the overall level design and game world look very bland in comparison

most games nowadays are also too easy...that gets boring...the challenge is what keeps me interested

 

[brennok]

Never cared for them. I gamed to relax and everything people loved about them were the things that generally annoyed me in other games.

 

[polonyc2]

I always recommend playing Souls and Soulslike games with a controller

I disagree...I've mastered the games on PC and I only use kb/m...I've recorded multiple videos of myself beating the hardest bosses in all the games using kb/m...so don't let anyone tell you that you need to use a controller...all it takes is some remapping of the keys and you can dominate

https://www.youtube.com/@titustroy8416/videos

literally the only game where I think a controller is 'required' outside of racing games is SW: Squadrons...I tried playing that with kb/m and it was brutal...if I can't play that game with kb/m then it's not possible

 

[UnknownSouljer]

If you're into video essays, watch this as perhaps a primer:



I don't think these titles are for everyone. But as this video also talks about (yes, it's quite long, I suggest watching it at 1.5x or faster) later titles addressed the major problem, which wasn't difficulty nearly as much as it was about onboarding players and their expectations regarding mechanics. In other words, the way the game was designed to be played.

Hop in at 12:15 for a direct breakdown for "non-souls" players. I think watching the entire video is entertaining, even if you don't play these games, but that particular time stamp talks about the nature of onboarding and friction directly. Literally a whole section about "People who don't get Souls games".

 

[Choopyplz]

Big fan of the Souls games! Playing them gives me this very unique feeling that I can't recall having ever experienced in another game, where I feel like I'm taking part in a classical myth or an epic (actually, sort of similar to the way Zelda games can make me feel, generally speaking). There's so much about the design of the games and aesthetic that is interesting, for many reasons people have already provided in this thread. It's ok to not be into them too, like I know people play games for different reasons, but I'm very glad that I have played through them. The only one I haven't played is Bloodborne, since I have never owned a PS4. I want to get a PS5 basically just to be able to play that game and Returnal, haha.

 

[chameleoneel]

If you're into video essays, watch this as perhaps a primer:



I don't think these titles are for everyone. But as this video also talks about (yes, it's quite long, I suggest watching it at 1.5x or faster) later titles addressed the major problem, which wasn't difficulty nearly as much as it was about onboarding players and their expectations regarding mechanics. In other words, the way the game was designed to be played.

Hop in at 12:15 for a direct breakdown for "non-souls" players. I think watching the entire video is entertaining, even if you don't play these games, but that particular time stamp talks about the nature of onboarding and friction directly. Literally a whole section about "People who don't get Souls games".

Really, the biggest thing about Souls games, is that the games don't usually stop you and train you on how to do things. Instead, you are either supposed to learn by pure observation combined with some fairly common sense. Or, learn by trying things----and then observing what happens along the way.

Most games have literal training segments. Or they pause the game and give you a full screen text box, telling you about something or how to do it. or they might even show you a video, which shows you how to do something. And then you literally mimmick that, immediately afterward.

Most gamers are used to that. Some of them want that. All of us have to un-learn that, to figure out what a Souls game wants from us.


**Dark Souls 3 is kind of a counterpoint. Because that game forces you to fight a decently difficult boss, not very far into the game. And you have to beat him, to progress. That, combined with the main arc of the story: its basically a souls game---for souls game players. Even though I love playing Dark Souls 3, I would never recommend it to a first time player.

 

[UnknownSouljer]

Really, the biggest thing about Souls games, is that the games don't usually stop you and train you on how to do things. Instead, you are either supposed to learn by pure observation combined with some fairly common sense. Or, learn by trying things----and then observing what happens along the way.

Most games have literal training segments. Or they pause the game and give you a full screen text box, telling you about something or how to do it. or they might even show you a video, which shows you how to do something. And then you literally mimmick that, immediately afterward.

Most gamers are used to that. Some of them want that. All of us have to un-learn that, to figure out what a Souls game wants from us.


**Dark Souls 3 is kind of a counterpoint. Because that game forces you to fight a decently difficult boss, not very far into the game. And you have to beat him, to progress. That, combined with the main arc of the story: its basically a souls game---for souls game players. Even though I love playing Dark Souls 3, I would never recommend it to a first time player.

I'm literally re-watching the video so I have HBomberguy's reference points, I say this to say I know you haven't watched the video or had time to do so (unless you already have previously and for some reasons aren't referencing anything he's talking about in your response).

But in the video he talks about a concept he calls "Play Conditioning", which is either a new concept or not one directly talked about in game design books/schools. The idea in short is that the way that players are introduced to mechanics changes the perception of said mechanics for players on 'how' to play the game. This is different than "Conveyance" which is the way a player is shown mechanics (IE: Zelda text screens). It's the difference between "this is how to play the game using given mechanics" vs "this is the mechanics". A subtle distinction he admits, but one that is critically important. And his point is the way that "Play Conditioning" is given radically changes people's perceptions on the way games are designed.

He goes onto state that the removal of the shield in Bloodborne was genius, because in previous games after getting introduced to the idea that "the world is unfair" (dropping bosses on you at the beginning of the game nearly ensuring an instant death), the shield is placed in the game. This lead players to play the game in an "un-fun" way. Which is to leave the shield up as much as possible and use spears. Removal of the shield and introducing a mechanic that restores life when striking enemies directly 'caused players to play the game the way it was intended. Which actually is a significantly more aggressive playstyle. It's about learning moveset and timing, while also being aggressive that gives the most rewarding playstyle. This combined with the "infinite Estus Flask" made players less paranoid and moved them away from item management and more towards actually playing the game. And these core principles make it possible for a player that has never encountered a new unknown enemy the ability to succeed.

Anyway, highly recommend you watch the video, because I think it does an incredibly good job at explaining why "unfairness" is fun, the ideas regarding player mechanics, and critically how the change in game mechanics can lead towards players playing the game in fun ways vs un-fun ways.

 

[scottypippin]

I'd throw my hat in the ring as someone who has gained enjoyment from the series, and would respect the place of these games as good, challenging, and unique pieces of the art.

However, I'd also be one to say the games didn't ALL appeal to me, just because I am a co-op player. And DS2 made co-op hard enough that I didn't enjoy the several hours I put into the story. Yes, I know - I'm a weanie for not finishing it, but I care about my blood pressure too

The vast majority of my enjoyment stems from multiplayer co-op and invasions. Exploring an unknown and harsh world with friends is organically exciting gameplay to me. If it was me, alone, I get bored and frustrated way quicker (which is a shame because there are some moments that take on more meaning when experienced alone). So I feel for you, if you started alone.

There are sections also where, if co-op didn't exist, I would never have finished the game. That's just my two cents.

A few other thoughts if you're interested:

I'm the sort of person who is a major sucker for the dark castle/fantasy settings chosen, with extreme evil and despondent protagonists. That's just what I'm into and that draw is responsible for my entry into the game.

Back on the co-op note, I loved the process of putting our heads together, taking a step away from a boss fight to gather a special weapon or level up, and then coming back. Again.....if I were alone, I could see myself putting the controller down at A LOT of points. The games are certainly devastatingly malicious sometimes.

Playing these games blind and learning not to care about the losses of currency in these games has helped me enjoy other games more.

Invasions are so cool. I hate them in the moment, but man is it exciting to suddenly be pitted against other players of similar level (at least that's been my experience).

I second UnknownSouljer - Bloodborne is magnificent as an art piece. It is cosmic horror and fantasy in a story with colorful characters that you can miss in your playthrough....but if you take a moment and pay attention, they can really present a truly human story. Real good stuff.

Elden Ring left a bad taste in my mouth. I platinumed it on playstation...but I did so out of anger with the obtuse-ness of the games lore and magnitude. There was a simplicity to the other games that was not there for me. Totally subjective.....

What do you think? Does that clue you in to why people like them? Why you maybe don't? I'm always down to hear a critique!

 

[chameleoneel]

I'm literally re-watching the video so I have HBomberguy's reference points, I say this to say I know you haven't watched the video or had time to do so (unless you already have previously and for some reasons aren't referencing anything he's talking about in your response).

But in that he talks about a concept he calls "Play Conditioning", which is either a new concept or not one directly talked about in game design books/schools. The idea in short is that the way that players are introduced to mechanics changes the perception of said mechanics for players on 'how' to play the game. This is different than "Conveyance" which is the way a player is shown mechanics (IE: Zelda text screens).

He goes onto state that the removal of the shield in Bloodborne was genius, because in previous games after getting introduced to the idea that "the world is unfair", the shield is placed in the game. This lead players to play the game in an "un-fun" way. Which is to leave the shield up as much as possible and use spears. Removal of the shield and introducing a mechanic that restores life when striking enemies directly 'caused players to play the game the way it was intended. Which actually is a significantly more aggressive playstyle. It's about learning moveset and timing, while also being aggressive that gives the most rewarding playstyle. This combined with the "infinite Estus Flask" made players less paranoid and moved them away from item management and more towards actually playing the game.

Anyway, highly recommend you watch the video, because I think it does an incredibly good job at explaining why "unfairness" is fun, the ideas regarding player mechanics, and critically how the change in game mechanics can lead towards players playing the game in fun ways vs un-fun ways.

I watched a little bit of the part about play conditioning. But he wastes a lot of time with unimportant details, before actually making his points. And I got tired of listening to that. Its like someone who keeps restating a sentence, but doesn't finish it, until they find exactly the best way to state it. Meanwhile, I just heard 5 different ways to lead into a point----which never actually made the point.

Anyway, Bloodborne is great. But, as you stated, it has some fundamental changes to core mechanics, which makes it play very differently in combat, from the Souls games. I think its different enough, that conditioning for bloodborne's combat, isn't exactly retroactive to the Souls games. However, I do think its true that it could encourage someone to take more risks, in a Souls game. Bloodborne is also Playstation Exclusive and talked about less. Its unlikely it would be someone's first souslike game.

However, Bloodborne still shares plenty of other common ideas, which I think are the most important for new players to learn. And a couple of those are 1. observe and think about everything. The game doesn't truly train you. You have to figure it out by doing and seeing.

2. Dying is part of the gameplay loop. HBomberguy does talk about that, dying. But, I don't think that he presses on it, quite enough. Death can come easily in Souls games and that is a key frustration for many players. For many games, the goal is to avoid death. And eventually you are on a power trip and may rarely die at all.

The end result is still similar in Souls games: Eventually you get good enough, have enough stats, have the right gear, you mare rarely die at all. But to get there, you must die. Once you realize that -----you can lean into that. And go places you wouldn't normally get to. Observing/seeing things you wouldn't see, if you had tried everything you could, to resist death. Take risks. push into an area. Run past some enemies. And see what these games are about and what they have for you.

 

[chameleoneel]

Elden Ring left a bad taste in my mouth. I platinumed it on playstation...but I did so out of anger with the obtuse-ness of the games lore and magnitude. There was a simplicity to the other games that was not there for me. Totally subjective.....

What do you think? Does that clue you in to why people like them? Why you maybe don't? I'm always down to hear a critique!

Elden Ring is the worst of all From's games, about its story. And the opening cinematic is a big reason for that. Its basically this:

There was a war. It split the kingdoms. and now here is a quick peek at some characters which will probably be bosses.

...And that was it. there is no flavor about the lore or the setting or the state of the world. It didn't set up any kind of politics or narrative or vocabulary or...much of anything. and it didn't tell us anything about those specific characters, either.

I feel like From's game intros have been getting slightly worse, each time, really. And now, its a hell of a far cry away from Dark Soul's and Demon's Souls intros. Dark Souls definitely has the most complex lore and sets up a lot of stuff for you, in the intro. And then as you play, you start to understand why that's all important to the world you are exploring and why its important to your character's journey.

Elden Ring unfortunately has very little context for you. If you talk to Varre enough, at the first site of Grace, he tells you a fair bit. But, it would have been nice to have had that set to an intro cinematic with some visuals and more flavor than.....him dryly talking at you.

 

[deaedius]

I really struggle with this type of game, I enjoy a good grind and beating enemies for the grind is a ton of fun. Not really a big fan of getting my ass whooped over and over though, that was until playing Returnal. They did a wicked job at changing it up so it isn't always the same thing over and over and over yet you feel a sense of progress like many rouge like games the more you grind. After firing up Returnal, I haven't really had the desire to pick up Elden Ring again.

 

[Flogger23m]

...it's like having to perform a QTE, but without cues.
I hate games with a learning curve, a game should be fun, and not something you need to devote time to mastering. If the gameplay is not intuitive and straightforward enough that you can learn it within a short tutorial, then I'm not interested.

That seems to be what these games are like in a nutshell. I don't mind games like a learning curve as long as the gameplay warrants it. For an action adventure game/RPG, it doesn't. As you point out the gameplay is essentially a QTE and trial and error with QTE style gameplay is not interesting in the slightest.

 

[Armenius]

Never cared for them. I gamed to relax and everything people loved about them were the things that generally annoyed me in other games.

Funny, because DS1 is one of my comfort games. I play it to relax. It's hard to explain. One of the things I love about the Souls series in particular is it's one of the few games that I know isn't bullshitting me. If I die, it's my fault. So many other games seem to have mechanics that are meant to assist the player, which in my experience does the opposite and makes you confused about why you died. This leads to frustration. DS1 is the exact opposite of that for me.

 

[CaptainClueless]

I've played about an hour into DS1, DS3, and Bloodborne, but none of them enticed me to come back. The whole "lose over and over and over until you memorize the enemy movements and timing for when you can actually attack" is about as un-fun as it gets for me. And don't get me started on the ever popular "parry" mechanic that is basically dumb luck until you have a bazillion hours of muscle memory playing the game under your belt. There were some boss fights in Jedi Fallen Order and Ghost of Tsushima like this that had me screaming and ready to hurl the controller at my TV. How is that an enjoyable gaming experience?

If I wanted to get my ass kicked over and over until I "git gud" with no story attached, why wouldn't I just play an online multiplayer game?

 

[chameleoneel]

I've played about an hour into DS1, DS3, and Bloodborne, but none of them enticed me to come back. The whole "lose over and over and over until you memorize the enemy movements and timing for when you can actually attack" is about as un-fun as it gets for me. And don't get me started on the ever popular "parry" mechanic that is basically dumb luck until you have a bazillion hours of muscle memory playing the game under your belt. There were some boss fights in Jedi Fallen Order and Ghost of Tsushima like this that had me screaming and ready to hurl the controller at my TV. How is that an enjoyable gaming experience?

If I wanted to get my ass kicked over and over until I "git gud" with no story attached, why wouldn't I just play an online multiplayer game?

I love the Souls games and have never bothered with the parrying mechanics

 

[Kardonxt]

Souls games give you a rewarding feeling of accomplishment that you just don't get from button mashing your way through modern ARPGs. It's pretty much the only single player genre that still makes me shout "YES!!!! I AM A FREAKING GOD!!!!" after a good boss battle.

I really like Elden Ring, but they definitely could have improved the starting experience. Leveling up, Torrent, and spirit ashes shouldn't have been tied to specific sights of grace without the game specifically directing you to them. A lot of people I know quit because of this, essentially before even starting the real game. You also need to invest an unusual amount of time to "get gewd". In my old age I had to bash my head into a wall for a good 10-20 hours before I developed the muscle memory needed to do anything consistently. (Even then I'm not great, I still lean on spirit ashes.)

It's also good to learn how to move on in Elden Ring. I usually only attempt a boss fight a handful of times, unless it's really close. If I'm not making significant improvement, I move on to something else and come back when I have leveled \ geared up.

Elden Ring was the first Souls games I actually liked. Exploring the world really helped me get through the head bashing stage.

 

[w35t]

I really like Elden Ring, but they definitely could have improved the starting experience. Leveling up, Torrent, and spirit ashes shouldn't have been tied to specific sights of grace without the game specifically directing you to them. A lot of people I know quit because of this, essentially before even starting the real game.

Leveling up and spirit ashes aren’t tied to certain sites of grace, spirit ashes are selected just like any item and you can level up at any site of grace.

Melina gives you torrent at what is most likely the second site of grace you come across, you’re facing toward it, right after the first steps, and it also leads to Stormveil castle, the first legacy dungeon you’re meant and instructed to encounter.

It took me a while to learn the mechanics and get over the souls hump but I’m incredibly grateful I did. I 100% pushed through it because of the thread here, just drove me nuts reading about how awesome it is and that I felt like I just couldn’t do it. Elden Ring is one of the best gaming experiences I’ve ever had. I do wish there was some sort of quest tracking though, I’ve had to look up how to get through a lot of those, and many are very worth doing.

I’ve done 3 playthroughs of ER, first one with STR/END build with bloodhounds fang and a shield, then Ng+, then a battlemage build with INT/DEX with a staff and moonveil katana, and just started a fourth that I plan on making use of incantations and holy weapons, maybe some fire weapons and arcane sprinkled in.

Hell, I’ve still barely touched any ashes of war, haven’t made any significant use of crafting, haven’t used any bows, and plenty more. The game has tons of replayability just based on the different approaches you can take, it really is a totally different way to experience the game.

I since have ran through DS3 twice, enjoyed it almost as much. I had the game in my library for years but just couldn’t figure it out, maybe got past that first boss like once before, then got rekt immediately by the dude guarding the tower you get the uchitanga from and was like eff this noise.

I’ve booted up DS remastered but haven’t given it much of a chance yet, will likely get through it as well though.

So yeah, I’m a fan

 

[Rattle]

These are the only games I play. I didn't like elden ring as much as any of their other games though. Demon souls PS5 was better than elden ring but yes best games ever in every way.

 

[pendragon1]

Do people actually enjoy these games?

yes. i dont as i dont feel like dodgerollin the entire time. i want to attack things and fuck shit up.

 

[Kardonxt]

Leveling up and spirit ashes aren’t tied to certain sites of grace, spirit ashes are selected just like any item and you can level up at any site of grace.

IIRC this is only true after you visit the correct site of grace to unlock torrent. Before that you can't level period, and I don't believe you unlock spirit ashes until you travel back to the first site of grace.

I could be fuzzy on the details but it definitely wasn't intuitive for myself and a lot of other players.

 

[MirrorMan]

All the souls era fromsoft games have their own strengths

DeS: Probably the weakest of the bunch but for its time was the start of something great. Great atmosphere in Latria and Boletaria is sweet. Overall though you can feel the age of the game and the limit on player build expression.

DS1: This game is an experience. From the Asylum up until conquering Anor Londo this game has an unmatched feeling of progression and exploration. After Anor Londo it nosedives in quality. There's just something magical about the level design and layout of that first 3/4s of the game. The freedom to ascend to the belfry or descend to quelaag's domain. Then you have to drag yourself out of the literal bowels of the land and ascend a tower full of traps and strong enemies before you are rewarded with the Anor Londo vista.

DS2: There's a lot of it. Some interesting ideas with weapons, powerstancing, and ascetics. Definitely not a must play. Did have the best PVP, but PVP is garbage anyways so it's a best of the worst situation.

Bloodborne: This is the only from game I actual care about the "story." This game oozes atmosphere and mystery. Mechanically the emphasis on the stagger system shows up here. Ranged parry is a unique element too. Just for sheer aesthetics alone this game is worth experiencing. Best DLC of any fromsoft game.

DS3: Honestly didn't care much at all for this game. The level design specifically is garbage. There are several more memorable ds2 areas than any of the ds3 areas. Mechanically solid though although you really feel the roll spam encouragement come online in this title. I had ds universe fatigue and didn't play this one at launch. Played it after Sekiro and died 3 times. Twice to Pontiff and once to nameless king. Just kind of coasted through it and never really went back because nothing grabbed me. For the record I've played through DeS 9 times, DS1 7, DS2 5, BB 15+, DS3 2, Sekiro 5, ER 8. It's weird what does and doesn't grab you. I like DS1 a lot more as a game, but I've felt compelled to play DeS more. Can't explain stuff like that. What really matters is the first impression playthrough though.

Sekiro: Love this game. The best boss fights from has made to date. Don't really like the setting and the lore, but mechanically it is just a fun time. I guess I need to asterik in fountainhead palace as the exception when saying I didn't care for the setting.

Elden RIng: The major strength of ER is its exploration. Not since DS1 have I felt the same sense of wonder. Ranni's questline alone has like 3 mindblowing setpiece reveals. The sewer rabbithole was a similar experience. Mechanically it is what you want to make of it. The game gives you tools like summons and ashes of war to overcome any challenge. Seriously, you can just summon a dude and then press L2 to win the whole game. That's not a bad thing, because you are in control of how you play. If you just care about progressing ER gives you tools to do so easily and cheese every encounter. If you want to engage with the combat without crazy long animation super attacks that stunlock everything to death you can. ER feels like a true successor to DS2 honestly in a very good way. I will always be fond of it because of its ability to evoke that sense of wonder through exploration.

 

[Armenius]

Yes, I'm not a fan of the speed of DS3. I know a lot of people are. The increased game speed makes the game more spammy than anything. DS1 felt perfect as every move you made need to be deliberate.

I've come around to DS2 over time. I really appreciate the world after playing through it multiple times. I think its weak points are the lack of diversity in the enemies and bosses, and tying iframes to an attribute. Viable build diversity is off the chart, though.

 

[w35t]

IIRC this is only true after you visit the correct site of grace to unlock torrent. Before that you can't level period, and I don't believe you unlock spirit ashes until you travel back to the first site of grace.

I could be fuzzy on the details but it definitely wasn't intuitive for myself and a lot of other players.

Yeah but that site is pointed to by the first one and White Mask Vare tells you to follow it, it’s also directly ahead and leads right up to the path to Stormveil. Even before I had a clue I stumbled right to it.

For the spirit ashes you need the spirit calling bell, which you get from Renna after re-visiting the Church of Elleh. If you miss that I believe you have to get to the round table hold and buy it from the twin maiden husks though.