Are OLED tvs the perfect technology to use as a large pc monitor?

Discussion in 'Displays' started by Omegaferrari, Apr 20, 2017.

  1. Omegaferrari

    Omegaferrari n00bie

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    Judging from this review http://www.rtings.com/tv/reviews/lg/c7 would you guys buy this tv, perhaps in a smaller size to use as a pc monitor, what do you think (response time and g2g any good on oled?)
     
  2. Nenu

    Nenu Pick your own.....you deserve it.

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    No.
    Static images cause burn in on screens with a lesser lifespan unless you run with reduced output.
    Plasma used to be like this but got it together toward the the end of their reign at the top quality end.
    OLED hasnt got there with lifespan and brightness yet.

    I wont use an OLED for general PC use until they get a lifespan and brightness close to that of LCD.
    Thats without considering HDR.
    There are 2 scales for HDR, low output but wide dynamic range and higher output with lower dynamic range.
    You need a very dark room and an accepting nature to be ok with the first.
    I'd rather wait for OLED or LED (edit, I mean LCD) to mature to have my cake and eat it.
    But until OLED matures it has to be LCD.
     
    Last edited: Apr 27, 2017
  3. x3sphere

    x3sphere 2[H]4U

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    So much misinformation in this post IMO...

    OLEDs are way way brighter than any Plasma and burn in is less of an issue on them

    They will probably never be as bright as an LED without major changes in the tech. But unless you are displaying a solid white screen, they certainly get bright enough for me. I run my C6 at like half of it's max brightness, even in a lit room it's fine.

    The C7 would work great as a monitor if you are ok with the size. The reason many people arent using the OLEDs is due to cost and only being available in 55"+. For most that is too big to use as a monitor. The only other option is Dell's 30" OLED, but that's $3500.
     
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  4. Nenu

    Nenu Pick your own.....you deserve it.

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    If you take what I say out of context I suppose you might think of it that way.
    I didnt compare OLED brightness to plasma, only you did.
    My plasma reference was talking about burn in during its early years.
    Later they got the lifespan up and burn in wasnt a problem any more.
    The additional brightness comment was to stress that they are not yet bright enough for HDR which has a knock on effect.
    You cant use an OLED for PC desktop at normal brightness without risking burn in. Once the lifespan or brightness has increased this will become possible.

    The next comments are also regarding HDR, not normal use.
    You havent covered that.
     
    Last edited: Apr 21, 2017
  5. BeavermanA

    BeavermanA 2[H]4U

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    For gaming it's awesome. For real productivity work would stick to LCD.

    Just got a 55C6P a few days ago and plopped it on my desk. Couldn't look at those LCD blacks anymore for games. It is pretty fucking big tho lol, really needs 8K res on a desk. Been using plasmas for PC gaming since '03. Never had an issue with IR or burn in. So far I haven't even noticed any IR on the OLED.
     
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  6. Snowdog

    Snowdog Pasty Nerd with Poor Cardio

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    OLED is more more like Plasma in it's later years. Neither of them have issues being used as a TV, both could run into problems if used as desktop monitor without care.

    Though OLED has better blacks than Plasma and cleaner image. OLED beats plasma in just about every way.

    But I wouldn't use a 55" TV as my desktop. I would use an LCD as my desktop and drive a TV for games/movies where they blacks really matter. It's how I have things now with a 24" desktop and 40" LCD TV.
     
  7. Nenu

    Nenu Pick your own.....you deserve it.

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    This is the point being made.
    The thread title spells how it will be used, OLED is not suitable.
    The same reason why I'm not getting OLED.
     
  8. geok1ng

    geok1ng [H]ard|Gawd

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    You will need to be blind to be Ok with the second:barefoot:. >300 nits hurts the eyes on monitor usage 24x7, 1000 nits is utterly inhuman to use sitting at less than 4 ft of the screen.
     
  9. NoOther

    NoOther [H]ardness Supreme

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    I use an LG OLED C6P, but that is on my gaming system. I don't do a lot on that system other than Gaming and occasionally streaming. I find that it works well for those applications. I would not want to use it as my primary screen for doing everyday PC tasks though. I have LCD monitors for my everyday computing system.
     
  10. Snowdog

    Snowdog Pasty Nerd with Poor Cardio

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    No, you compared to OLED to Plasma in its early years, when in reality is like Plasma in it's best years when there were no real IR/Burn in issues to speak of when used as a TV.

    Neither will handle Abuse, but neither did CRT BTW.

    Just about any emission technology has the potential for burn in, and probably always will.

    If you are uncomfortable with any burn in potential, you will likely have to use back-light based solutions forever.
     
  11. Corvette

    Corvette [H]ard|Gawd

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    I usually stop by Best Buy every other month to stare at the glorious LG OLEDs on display. In a well lit store the screen is more than bright enough. I suggest you see for yourself if you have the opportunity.
     
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  12. Nenu

    Nenu Pick your own.....you deserve it.

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    Thats not how HDR is used.
     
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  13. N4CR

    N4CR [H]ard|Gawd

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    I have not seen an OLED screen without either A) Aggressive anti-burn techniques or B) burn in and C) very rarely ever used for productivity let alone in an office type setting

    The blue pixels are also far larger due to them being major limitations of OLED tech.
    My call is stay away for now if you expect long term (5 years) reliable productivity/static image use etc.
     
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  14. Nenu

    Nenu Pick your own.....you deserve it.

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    I compared plasma to LCD and OLED to LCD, that was my intention.
    It can be interpreted differently as I didnt spell it out, my bad.

    Abuse is displaying static images for a long time if the screen cannot handle it.
    I used a later Panasonic plasma with my PC and it didnt give me any burn in. There was sometimes a few seconds image retention but this is normal and expected, it had over 100Khrs screen life, thats 34 years at 8hrs per day.
    There was a newer version that uses less power and had an even higher screen life.
    OLED has not genuinely reached this state of durability no matter what the mfrs say.
    (that was comparing plasma and OLED ;))
    My old Plasma TV is still in use for PC and gaming and has no burn in after 9 years now. I know who bought it.

    Most LCDs are fine for PC use, IPS is the worst but unless the backlight is blaring it should be ok.

    In this case its not potential, its a real risk.
    OLED is not yet able to suffer static images for hours on end.
    If its used for PC a few hours then video for at least as long it 'may' be ok.
    But those advocating using the clear functions to get rid of image retention are artificially ageing the screen.

    General reports on OLED long term image retention/burn in are aimed at normal use not PC use, yet it still happens.
    You can assume it will be worse for PC desktop use.
     
  15. Snowdog

    Snowdog Pasty Nerd with Poor Cardio

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    All the pixels are the same on LG sets. They use White OLEDs with color filters on top.


    Both Plasma and LG OLED claim 100K screen life. There is no evidence either one of these claims was better than the other and no evidence that plasma had any better resistance to burn in than LG OLED. NOTE LG seems to have a more durable design with it's White OLED pixels, than Samsungs RGB OLED.

    If you want to use it 8 hour/day as an office pc displaying a static task bar every day, that will burn in OLED/Plasma and even CRT (we had lots of burned in CRTs at work in the old days).

    If you mainly want to do games/movies/TV with a bit of office, either should be fine.
     
    Last edited: Apr 21, 2017
  16. Later

    Later n00bie

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    I wouldn't worry that much about potential burn-in in OLED displays. It's too early to tell if current WOLED TVs develop burn-in in the long run. If they do, just ditch them and buy a new one, you are likely to want to upgrade to a better model anyway.

    It's much more important to be concerned about your own health. OLED displays emit less harmful blue light and are more comfortable to look at. Whether the blue light has a deteriorating effect on your vision is up to debate, I'm just saying it's better to be safe than sorry. You even save money in the long run if you can save on glasses and medical expenses.

    For circadian rhythm, blue light certainly has an effect. Due to true blacks OLEDs don't require bias lighting in the evenings. You can keep OLED display brightness very low in the dark which is not only good for your circadian rhythm but also significantly lessens any chance of burn-in.
     
    Last edited: Apr 22, 2017
  17. Snowdog

    Snowdog Pasty Nerd with Poor Cardio

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    Only among crackpots. Go outside on a sunny day and you will get 10X as much blue light as your monitor creates.
     
  18. Later

    Later n00bie

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    Yeah, and you will dead sure go blind if you stare at the source of that light. Bright monitors are not bad for your eyes either if you don't look at them.
     
    Last edited: Apr 22, 2017
  19. Desert Fish

    Desert Fish n00bie

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    With a clear sky, near noon, pretty much anywhere you look that's not in shadow will be on the order of 10 times brighter than a monitor. The blue sky even more so.

    Even the moon (at night) is really bright compared to regular monitor, although the reported values are somewhat conflicting, ranging from 550 to over 5000 cd/m^2.
     
    Last edited: Apr 22, 2017
  20. Later

    Later n00bie

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    Sure, there are bright spots, that's why we have the current HDR craze in the first place. Sky can be bright but people don't really focus their eyes on the sky. I don't know the numbers but I remember playing around with a camera and noticed that monitors are much brighter than most objects. So, I don't really buy the rest, but maybe I remember incorrectly, don't have a camera on hands at the moment. Maybe those who work on HDR material could elaborate.
     
  21. Khahhblaab

    Khahhblaab n00bie

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    No. Not a good idea, imho, because of the image retention issue. A couple of minutes for it to clear means that this machine is made for tv viewing only - unless you can deal with the ghosting effect of a past image hanging around. In addition, 55" is the smallest size that they make, too large for the most of us for pc use, wayyy too much turning your head and twisting your neck to see the action going on in a game......unless you are comfortable with it being some distance away.

    Dell is coming out with a Oled monitor soon and image retention issues is why it was delayed for the last year or so. They have incorporated some type of autoscreen dimming after some time, full screen shutdown after a while longer and pixel shifting to deal with the problem that the tech has until they figure out something better. Oleds depend on chemistry as do lcds but lcd tech has the advantage of being more mature. Early lCD's had image retention problems also. They figured it out. Only the cheapest have that problem today. If you remember crt's back in the day, they were all suspectable to burn-in. Screensavers were invented to deal with image retention and burn-in. Dont be suprised if oled monitors come with a screensaver installed as part of the hardware/firmware. Sometimes old tech gets a chance to do its thing again.
     
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  22. Khahhblaab

    Khahhblaab n00bie

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    Yeah. Very true. I just need, since this is an information thread, to clarify that "todays" lcd's and led's are the same - as far as the technology used to create the images. A led is an lcd that uses led to provide the lighting. In regular lcds you get either edge lighting or back lighting based on fluorescent tubes (CCFL). Sony actually has a hybrid lighting technology based on led's that use edge lighting with light pipes to create something approaching full array dimming. So in effect, led is about as a mature technology as lcd's. Some differences that only the manufacturer would know, but you can absolutely find leds that are - for most uses - burn-in proof. I am not thinking about the 24x7 train or airport displays. Just the average user that uses the tvsets/monitors for the uses that they are intended for.

    An interesting thing is that oleds have been used in professional brodcasting for years now. Sony has one monitor hat costs $23,000 @ 24". There must be a reason that they made it. Its the better contrast that oled provide. Dell will be the first consumer pc monitor on the market soon, we have to wait and see if the average consumer can take care of it as pro's do.
     
  23. Snowdog

    Snowdog Pasty Nerd with Poor Cardio

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    Give it up. You don't know what you are talking about, yet again.

    When you join a forum, it's wise to lurk for a while and maybe ask some questions till you actually have something reasonable to contribute.
     
  24. NoOther

    NoOther [H]ardness Supreme

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    I don't know what you think the problem is with image retention, but I have not really noticed any ghosting at all with my C6. There is a slight input lag, but it's not really noticeable for casual gaming. Also there is no real turning or twisting my head to see what is going on. I don't know what you are talking about with that.
     
  25. Khahhblaab

    Khahhblaab n00bie

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    As far as the turning and twisting, I was thinking about the user that would place a 55" TV set directly on his desktop, the smallest oled size. A 55" set close enough where you can touch the screen if you reach out with your arm, means that you cant "take in" the full screen without some movement of your head. Similar to going to the movies and sitting in the first row close to the screen. If you dont notice this, its because your C6 is mounted some distance away - probably functions more like a tv set than a computer monitor which is what the original poster was asking about.

    Oleds are great! I am aiming for a budget will allow a new E7 or G7. After some searching about the tech, I realized that my viewing habits may not be best suited for a oled that will also be used for casual gaming, file playing or some intense fps shooting from time to time. I can imagine pausing a game or a file to go for coffee and coming back to it half hour later and noticing some ghosting. On a new tv set, it will give me a bit of hesitation. I dont have the advantage of actually using one as my own, just remember the few times I left the plasma on the netflix page - didnt feel good about the ghosting image retention that was left. It went away, sure. But its a wierd feeling on a brand new set.

    Im torn between my first choice, "oled's" and my new second choice's Samsung"qleds" and the Sony's leds. I didnt even have a second choice a few months ago. Its all about my concern about IR. It has never been reported to be a issue that would affect tv viewing, it only comes up when being concerned about a static image left for some time on the screen. "I" am susceptable to leaving a static image on a screen for some time so my pov reflect these kind of folks. Kinda sucks since my second chioces dont have Lg's best in the business webos smart platform. I would be giving up best picture quality and best smart Os.

    You may be able to get better imput lag on your C6. Are you in the lasted firmware? If you have updated to 04.30.95, running inside game mode, your set is capable of excellent lag numbers. Found this out on another site.

    I am just reflecting how I feel most folks will feel after dropping a few thousand on a new set, leaving it on some static page like netfix on pause, a game menu screen or a web page and be confronted with some residual image that takes some time to go away. It makes me think about it and its making me consider a different tech.

    Thanks for your experience. It moves an OLED decision closer to #1 again since you actually have one - and an older model - and are ok with it. Review sites arent the final word. Our mileage will vary.
     
  26. chenw

    chenw 2[H]4U

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    For me, that decision, on paper at least, is very easy for me, out of Samsung, Sony and LG's cutting edge TVs, only LG's OLED TV is within my consideration.

    Reason:

    1. All of them (the ones availble to me at least, it's a different thing in the US) have the same minimum size, so it basically comes to panel type, I have no preference to any tech as long as CRT like contrast is there with NO compromises. OLED fits that bill nicely, I have no idea the performance on QLED or Sony's LED, both do look impressive, but that brings into my second point.

    2. Only the OLED TVs from LG actually have HDCP 2.2 explicitly written on its specification sheet. Samsung's TVs are COMPLETELY silent on what HDCP they support, and I know it's extremely stupid to be be worried about that, but the cold hard truth is, HDMI 2.0 and HDCP, as far as my conclusion goes, does NOT automatically guarentee that HDCP to be 2.2, my conclusion draws directly from the fact that I have seen TVs that have HDMI 2.0, but some models simple state "YES" on their HDCP, others explicitly wrote "2.2". Given that discrepancy, I am not spending $2000 for an experiment, I'd rather spend $3000 on a TV that has everything I know I want. Yes, I could have bought it from Costco and return it if it didn't work, but I honestly really don't want to lug a 55" TV in my car, let alone all the way back to Costco to return it.

    The latter is, admittedly, extremely minor concern, but it annoys me greatly that HCDP is just so picky about what works and what don't, but also at the TV manufacturers for being extremely vague about it.
     
  27. NoOther

    NoOther [H]ardness Supreme

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    My 55" LG 6C is directly on my desktop and I can take in the full picture without the twisting and turning.

    I hear all these people talk about image retention issues, I have had zero issues with my OLED.

    As I am mainly a casual gamer these days, I don't really notice the input lag. I only mentioned it for those that might be expecting more competitive play on an OLED.
     
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  28. Megalith

    Megalith 24-bit/48kHz Staff Member

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    I just took delivery of an OLED55B6 yesterday and was surprised to find that there was a screen shift option; my other curved OLED from LG didn't have that. The guys at AVS Forum claim that people have left the same images on their display for over 24 hours and have not gotten burn-in.
     
  29. illram

    illram [H]ard|Gawd

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    When I see people complain of burn in on OLED's I have to wonder if any of them actually own a newer OLED. I have been using a E6 since August of last year as a gaming TV and PC monitor--so lots of static HUD's for hours and hours, web browsing, etc.--and I see zero IR. If you try and make it happen you can catch glimpses of it, for instance switch to a gray background immediately after having a high contrast static image up for a while, you'll see some IR, which goes away really quickly. But in normal usage it is seriously imperceptible and I can't imagine this IR will eventually burn in (i.e. become permanent) given all the anti-IR tech and assuming you are not a bozo and just leave a static image up for hours everyday all the time for years.

    I used to have a plasma too and the difference is night and day. That plasma did, eventually, get burn in, but IR was also way more visible before that happened.
     
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  30. Khahhblaab

    Khahhblaab n00bie

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    Thanks for your reply. I am soooo wanting to go the way of OLED, I am just aware that I have particular habits may get in the way of my fully liking the decision. OLED's, btw, have some of the best lag=lowest in the flatscreen arena. Your set should place at the "best of", especially since LG has updated the firmware. You might "not" be noticing any input lag because its soo good=low. OLED's are capable of even better lag=lowest of any set because the pixels are turnon/turnoff, .001ms! Their design unfortunately took cues from already proven designs that introduced artificial lag. Not just video processing. The way the hardware places a picture to the screen isnt the best for oled's. It will get even better.

    Dont know how far your 55" is away from you on your desktop. Just know that one on mine, would make me move a bit more that I wish to. Maybe you dont notice it: maybe I turn my head when I would rather just move my eyes: maybe I play something that requires me needing to know whats going on far upper left and right, maybe you dont. Just too large for my tastes on a desk. Works for you, I would need a bigger desk and a longer distance from the screen for it to work for me.

    The feedback has placed me back on a oled path. Glad to know that folks that actually have one, and not just looking at tv, have not experienced any "real" issues. My second choice is good also. Sony's 930e. Wont get "Gravity's" starfield on black, but hdr and capable. Save a few dollars. Glad you also had plasma. We know that all sets are ir and burn in sucepatable. Old school CRT's always had them. We just noticed it more once new tech had it also. The sony is a va (lcd screen). Lesser chance of ir/burn in than any other lcd that I am aware of. Second choice should satisfy unless I wait for the reviews of sonys oled. With the sound on glass tech. Maybe all of the vibration of sound on the screen negates ir. Would be a funny solution. Ir? Just play "I can see clearly now" on volume 5. It wil be all rite.
     
  31. chenw

    chenw 2[H]4U

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    Are burn ins on these OLED's temporary or permanent? It sounded like permanent, but if <24h is enough to cause a burn, it sounds like either temporary, or OLED is simply THAT fragile, while I find a little hard to believe, though wouldn't be out of this world.
     
  32. Khahhblaab

    Khahhblaab n00bie

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    Not an owner but from someone that has looked into the issue:
    No problem if its being used as a tv set - movies and such.
    Only a consideration if a game screen has a bright UI on a dark background and onscreen for really, really long durations.
    Only a consideration if used as the "primary" pc viewpoint. Turn on your screensaver if you are this type of user.
    Not permamanent. Temporary, but may take a few minutes to fully clearup.
    OLED's have been manufactured with the issue in mind and latest ones are less suceptable that earlier ones. Even have a "clear screen function".
    Really good technology - situations go from absolutely no image retention to just a little and it goes away.
    Your mileage may vary. How its used seems to be the x factor.

    http://www.rtings.com/tv/reviews/lg/b6?uxtv=5935

    Remember that reviews work a set hard so show what "may" be an issue. I would keep my set and see how it performs with how I use it. If there is a problem, there is always the reciept.
     
  33. SvenBent

    SvenBent [H]ard|Gawd

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    LED monitors ( not counting OLED) IS LCD. its a led backlight with a LCD filter. isntead of a CCFL backligs and a LCD filter.
     
  34. Nenu

    Nenu Pick your own.....you deserve it.

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    Was a typo.
     
  35. NoOther

    NoOther [H]ardness Supreme

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    For reference, you can see my post about my display here, probably due for another update on my setup soon:

    https://hardforum.com/threads/so-i-decided-to-redo-my-display-setup.1922310/#post-1042753406
     
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  36. SvenBent

    SvenBent [H]ard|Gawd

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    Sorry didnt realise that
     
  37. Khahhblaab

    Khahhblaab n00bie

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    First of all, I like your taste! Well thought out design and components. Really now.......Dual! Titans! Thats a lotta pixel pumping power ya gots dere dude. However, you have designed your system to deal with the issue that comes up when a large screen is too close. Had you not placed your keyboard on an additional level on its own platform some distance away, you would be experiencing what I was concerned about. Not everyone is able to configure their setup to accomodate a 55" screen comfortably. You have thought it out so it works. Other folks, thinking that bigger is always better get that 55 incher and place it at the same distance as a 23" or 27" and expect the experience ot be the same.....just a bigger picture. Its not. At a certain size, the distance between you and the screen becomes important. A 23" screen can be a arms length away. Somewhere above 40 inches you have to become concerned about how close you are to a screen to comfortably be able to see the whole screen without tilting, twisting or moving your head like you are in a virtual reality headset. Its what I was pointing out. Thanks for a solution although I'm more likely to go the way of the widesceen.Just hope that I dont have to break out a hole in a concrete wall if I do mine as you did yours.

    jk'n

    :)
     
  38. Skylinestar

    Skylinestar Limp Gawd

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    Isn't burn-in from the windows taskbar a huge problem?
     
  39. NoOther

    NoOther [H]ardness Supreme

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    For reference my 55" is right now the same distance my previous 28" monitors were. That is pretty much the same distance all my monitors have been from me. I sit roughly 2 feet away from it. I am well acquainted with what people believe is the optimum distance from a screen, but I have found I always like to be a bit closer. I also have a 120" screen for my TV that I sit between 10-12 feet from.
     
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  40. exlink

    exlink 2[H]4U

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    I have a 65B6P and a 55C6P - amazing TVs. The 65B6P is in the living room and also has a HTPC hooked up to it. Works great; never had an issue with any image retention let alone burn in.