Are games today ruining things for the younger generation?

[Azureth]

My friend and I like old-school games and can both enjoy them, but his brother who is 16 won't play anything he deems "to slow" or "too complicated". He is crazy about CoD, buys all the DLC and has even fully paid off the pre-order for the next CoD. When I was talking to my friend about Battlefield his brother chimed in that he doesn't like the way the guns and other weapons handle in the BF games and finds it to "slow" and complicated for him.

Contrast that to my friend and I who grew up playing hard as **** NES/SNES/Genny games of the past that made us work hard to get tough and appreciate more complex gameplay. I remember drawing my own maps in RPGs and such. Which really even with the way RPGs now a lot of younger kids seem to not be willing to put in the time/effort in RPGs as we did due to the reading and length etc.

Granted not all the stuff back then was so hard and real complex but it seems to me as if the younger generation of kids are so used to how "easy" and less complex games are today that they have a harder time getting good at and fully appreciating such games.

Now, maybe I am just acting like an old man but I often feel disheartened seeing the younger kids seemingly not even really trying. So what do you think?

 

[Megalith]

Who cares? Their loss.

My bigger concern is shit like DLC and Early Access titles. The kids these days probably think there's nothing wrong with that stuff, which is sad.

 

[Azureth]

Who cares? Their loss.

My bigger concern is shit like DLC and Early Access titles. The kids these days probably think there's nothing wrong with that stuff, which is sad.

Oh, I certainly agree. Which brings up another point. I really do hate how the younger generation is oh so happy to shell out truck loads of $$$ for DLC and the like yet when I have tried to explain how different it was in the past and how ridiculous it is they look at me like I am crazy.

 

[GearChoices]

Of course games and mainstream gamers' tastes are dropping in quality more and more. That is really happening with everything. But honestly, gaming is not an important part of life and no one is going to miss anything important by not experiencing the best gaming has to offer. Unfortunately, people are just as misguided in all other areas of their lives, and increasingly more so.

 

[fdiaz78]

A video game primary purpose is to entertain, not make you feel like you are punching a time clock. Games of our generation had inherent limitations that forced devs to create a sense of difficulty aka doing the same dam level 50 times EVERYTIME you died. With today's hardware and software it's an antiquated mechanic. I have tried playing old school games again and can't anymore. I don't have the time or patience for repeating the same level.

 

[piscian18]

I think achievements have ruined the industry. I always have to disable them because they ruin the immersion for me. Every 5 seconds pop up blocking your fucking game *blop blop blop*. I do not give a fuck leave me alone. I once had to reset because a fucking achievement blocked the subtitles on my game and I missed some of the plot.

 

[dgz]

Well, honestly, if you don't realize BF is slow as fuck, you're a clueless noob. Nothing wrong with enjoying BF gameplay but it is what it is. On the other hand, CoD is just as lame and slow.Anyone who is isn't playing Quake and is talking about "slow" or "fast" is auto noobed in my book.

BF is a game for old noobs. Again, nothinf wrong with that but you have to acknowledge the game for what it is - a noob fest for old guys with no skills whatsoever. It's been exactly that since BF 1942, though it's been steadily getting worse and worse since then.

OP, no offense but you talk about RPGs and then complain about youngsters liking it easy. Are you fucking delusional?

1. If you play BF you're most likely NOT a skilled player.

2. If you play RPG games you're most likely NOT a skilled player.

3. If you complain about other people not enjoying "complex" games such as RPGs you're most likely not skilled

Sorry, that just how I've always felt.

I am a bit drunk and didn't end up sleeping over so maybe I am just bitter

 

[mesasone]

Noob noob noob noob. Noob noob. Noob noob noob noob noob. Noob.

Do I have this about right? (Read it in the voice of the teacher from peanuts.)

 

[XvMMvX]

Well, honestly, if you don't realize BF is slow as fuck, you're a clueless noob. Nothing wrong with enjoying BF gameplay but it is what it is. On the other hand, CoD is just as lame and slow.Anyone who is isn't playing Quake and is talking about "slow" or "fast" is auto noobed in my book.

BF is a game for old noobs. Again, nothinf wrong with that but you have to acknowledge the game for what it is - a noob fest for old guys with no skills whatsoever. It's been exactly that since BF 1942, though it's been steadily getting worse and worse since then.

OP, no offense but you talk about RPGs and then complain about youngsters liking it easy. Are you fucking delusional?

1. If you play BF you're most likely NOT a skilled player.

2. If you play RPG games you're most likely NOT a skilled player.

3. If you complain about other people not enjoying "complex" games such as RPGs you're most likely not skilled

Sorry, that just how I've always felt.

I am a bit drunk and didn't end up sleeping over so maybe I am just bitter

You are like... so above us.

Actually no... are you serious with this shit? Get out of your moms basement and catch a clue.

 

[Nytegard]

Well, honestly, if you don't realize BF is slow as fuck, you're a clueless noob. Nothing wrong with enjoying BF gameplay but it is what it is. On the other hand, CoD is just as lame and slow.Anyone who is isn't playing Quake and is talking about "slow" or "fast" is auto noobed in my book.

BF is a game for old noobs. Again, nothinf wrong with that but you have to acknowledge the game for what it is - a noob fest for old guys with no skills whatsoever. It's been exactly that since BF 1942, though it's been steadily getting worse and worse since then.

OP, no offense but you talk about RPGs and then complain about youngsters liking it easy. Are you fucking delusional?

1. If you play BF you're most likely NOT a skilled player.

2. If you play RPG games you're most likely NOT a skilled player.

3. If you complain about other people not enjoying "complex" games such as RPGs you're most likely not skilled

Sorry, that just how I've always felt.

I am a bit drunk and didn't end up sleeping over so maybe I am just bitter

RPGs use to actually require skill to beat. I'm talking about pre-JRPGs. At one point, games in the USA were significantly harder than anything that came out in Japan. And now we view the Japanese games as significantly harder than the games in the USA. The problem is, games in Japan didn't become harder, games in the USA became significantly easier.

Even take Divinity: Original Sin. Go to the Steam forums and see how many people think it's way too hard. The thing is, it's actually a very easy classic RPG. I mean, if you came out with a modern version of a game like Wizardry, it just wouldn't sell in the USA. It would be way too difficult and unfair for most modern players. I mean, what's the last video game RPG you can name where you can actually lose stats leveling up?

 

[GearChoices]

A video game primary purpose is to entertain, not make you feel like you are punching a time clock. Games of our generation had inherent limitations that forced devs to create a sense of difficulty aka doing the same dam level 50 times EVERYTIME you died. With today's hardware and software it's an antiquated mechanic. I have tried playing old school games again and can't anymore. I don't have the time or patience for repeating the same level.

There is a difference between artificial difficulty (what you are describing, and I agree was the case for many games, and still is now for many modern games/difficulty-levels claiming to be "difficult") and true difficulty obtained from sophistication/complexity/depth. Unfortunately, although artificial-difficulty games, such as pretty much all MMORPGs, are most definitely bad, we are now getting games that are artificially enjoyable. They seek to numb your senses and/or addict you to gameplay that minimizes the variety of mental interaction you have with the game.

This leads to popularity of games like we have now, such as Call of Duty. Mindlessly running as fast as possible from place to place, rapidly moving your eyes scanning any movement on the screen, constantly, no stopping, no thinking, no tactics, no team-work. Just move, move, move...scan, scan, scan...shoot, shoot shoot...on and on and on.

 

[Comixbooks]

I really don't think so they know what makes a good game and a bad game...

 

[collegeboy69us]

the kid already has the game paid off (and it's not out till NOV if i recall correctly??)

Does the kid love giving interest free loans out to everyone? Is he stupid enough to actually believe there's going to be some sort of shortage? These two things are what tell me he's a dumb-ass, not the fact he likes CoD.

His behavior and attitude towards "other games" tells me him, and most younger people these days, are too impatient to wait for anything good, they want instant satisfaction at the expense of quality. May not seem like a big deal now because he's just a kid, but those traits follow and translate into becoming a pretty crappy adult.

People like him will rack up credit card debt always perusing the "next cool thing", his work ethic might be less than admirable if his mind jumps from thing to thing never actually finishing what it starts.

People like him are going to make guys like me rich because they don't want to ever save or buy a house, and will choose to rent forever because it's "easier".

Edit: I could also add - the fast paced twitch/ADD lifestyle these kids seem to go after, missing out on an amazing story, missing out on amazing history means they will go through life that much dumber. I'm not saying video games are some magical substitute for life experience or the actual study of history, but many games are based on stories or ideas that have been around for a long long time. The concept I'm trying to convey is easier if you think of graphic novels. Many people dismiss them as just cartoons, but there are epic stories inside that can teach some pretty valuable lessons.

 

[Krenum]

Who cares? Their loss.

Totally agree.

 

[lilbabycat]

Divinity: Original Sin seems to have a good mixture of old/new gameplay styles.

I also think in the next 5 or so years we will see the "casual" gaming community start to expand their horizons as gaming for (us older gamers) did in the 90's/00's. Even the average COD / Madden dudebro is getting tired of the same stuff, so gameplay is going to expand itself at some point (especially since graphics are still handicapped by consoles.

Will we get Dwarf Fortress w/ Skyrim graphics? Doubtful, but maybe RPG's will start having stat and inventory systems again. Shooters will have actual team based elements. Heck you might even get a chance to play a decent CTF match someday without having to load up a 10yr old title.

 

[piscian18]

Old shooters -
5 kills *yep I did good*
10 kills *sweet*
15 *hey maybe that invite clan will let me in*
20-0 *OK kid you can try out for our clan*

New Shooters
* welcome to clan COD!*
5 kills *achievement! you earned a hat! OMg you so fucking good*
10 kills *achievement you unclocked a new gun! new skin new hat! achievement for getting two hats!*
20-0 *kick ban*

 

[LeviathanZERO]

Yeah, really, who cares.
If his excuse is "too complicated", he's already lost.

Just show him this and if he doesn't get it, just forget about it.

 

[Azureth]

the kid already has the game paid off (and it's not out till NOV if i recall correctly??)

Does the kid love giving interest free loans out to everyone? Is he stupid enough to actually believe there's going to be some sort of shortage? These two things are what tell me he's a dumb-ass, not the fact he likes CoD.

His behavior and attitude towards "other games" tells me him, and most younger people these days, are too impatient to wait for anything good, they want instant satisfaction at the expense of quality. May not seem like a big deal now because he's just a kid, but those traits follow and translate into becoming a pretty crappy adult.

People like him will rack up credit card debt always perusing the "next cool thing", his work ethic might be less than admirable if his mind jumps from thing to thing never actually finishing what it starts.

People like him are going to make guys like me rich because they don't want to ever save or buy a house, and will choose to rent forever because it's "easier".

Edit: I could also add - the fast paced twitch/ADD lifestyle these kids seem to go after, missing out on an amazing story, missing out on amazing history means they will go through life that much dumber. I'm not saying video games are some magical substitute for life experience or the actual study of history, but many games are based on stories or ideas that have been around for a long long time. The concept I'm trying to convey is easier if you think of graphic novels. Many people dismiss them as just cartoons, but there are epic stories inside that can teach some pretty valuable lessons.

Yeah, this. Imagine the younger kids today trying to play something like Phantasy Star II LOL. I found this video and think this sums up a problem with kids today:


Kids React to Game Boy


Some quotes:

You actually have to press buttons to do everything

'you dont just turn it on and get the apps

Sigh....

 

[dderidex]

A video game primary purpose is to entertain, not make you feel like you are punching a time clock. Games of our generation had inherent limitations that forced devs to create a sense of difficulty aka doing the same dam level 50 times EVERYTIME you died. With today's hardware and software it's an antiquated mechanic. I have tried playing old school games again and can't anymore. I don't have the time or patience for repeating the same level.

Pfft - no idea what all y'all are on about.

REAL games...



...are paper!

 

[Krenum]

Pfft - no idea what all y'all are on about.

REAL games...



...are paper!

Here here,

I've actually been playing more traditional games recently than video games. Poker, MTG, Yahtzee ect...

 

[GearChoices]

Pfft - no idea what all y'all are on about.

REAL games...



...are paper!

Have to agree with this completely. Maybe that amazing 100% player-interactive, 100% sandbox MMOG I have been waiting for could come in at a pretty close second. But first of all, that is either never going to happen or is going to take years of more waiting, and second of all, still will not match the fun to be had from personal, real-life, human interaction.

 

[jojo69]

Pfft - no idea what all y'all are on about.

REAL games...



...are paper!

right on!

just wait till Jerri Ellsworths VR rig for tabletop hits

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/technicalillusions/castar-the-most-versatile-ar-and-vr-system

 

[dderidex]

Heh - thanks for the kind words!

Lest anyone go TOO knee-jerk-responsive, though...

I do LOVE me some video games, too..



...no doubt at all.

I think I'm BR85 or so in Planetside 2, have logged HUNDREDS of hours into Skyrim, and rather think 'Alan Wake' is probably one of the best entertainment experiences I've had...movie/TV/video game/boardgame...flat out. Just a *great* story. And that's just recent stuff. My Steam library is...well, massive. And I've been gaming since Radio Shack was one of the best places to get the newest PC games (heh...that'll date me...)

BUT...all that said...

In the end, the most consistently great experience...is boardgames. No, seriously, it's moved past 'Monopoly' and 'Checkers' in the same way PC gaming has moved past Pac-Man and Pong. Not kidding - check it out!

I mean, I do *LOVE* PC gaming - and you'll not pry it from my cold, dead, hands, but...face-to-face gaming? Over dice, and cardboard/paper, with your local game store's selection of beers on tap?

Yeah, that's not going to be topped any time soon.

 

[Armenius]

You mean you have to use your hands? That's like a baby's toy!

 

[dgz]

You mean you have to use your hands? That's like a baby's toy!

yeah but imagine really complex real-time games using only your brains. this would auto improve strategy and execution to no end. care for a stephen hawking vs boxer match? it would also end up looking tragically silly in real life, though. i dont care.

 

[zamardii12]

I think it's just a "Instant Gratification" -type mentality. I alternate between both. I like games that I can pick up at any time, play a little, and move on... Most of the games today seem to take on that sort of mentality like "pick up and play" sort of like casual games. They make everything so god damn easy, but it's okay because if I just feel like playing through a game a certain way i'll lower the difficulty... like Mass Effect. I care more about the story than the gameplay so I tend to play that where the shooting is not the prime focus.

I don't think it's a generational thing, just a preference thing. If you want to play more difficult and challenging games then there are plenty of those. If you want to play something simple and fun then there are plenty of those.

 

[Yippee38]

great[/i] experience...is boardgames. No, seriously, it's moved past 'Monopoly' and 'Checkers' in the same way PC gaming has moved past Pac-Man and Pong. Not kidding - check it out!

I mean, I do *LOVE* PC gaming - and you'll not pry it from my cold, dead, hands, but...face-to-face gaming? Over dice, and cardboard/paper, with your local game store's selection of beers on tap?

Yeah, that's not going to be topped any time soon.

I'm jealous. I've only got one friend locally who is into board games. The rest of my friends look at me like I'm a little kid or something.

 

[DPI]

My friend and I like old-school games and can both enjoy them, but his brother who is 16 won't play anything he deems "to slow" or "too complicated". He is crazy about CoD, buys all the DLC and has even fully paid off the pre-order for the next CoD. When I was talking to my friend about Battlefield his brother chimed in that he doesn't like the way the guns and other weapons handle in the BF games and finds it to "slow" and complicated for him.

Contrast that to my friend and I who grew up playing hard as **** NES/SNES/Genny games of the past that made us work hard to get tough and appreciate more complex gameplay. I remember drawing my own maps in RPGs and such. Which really even with the way RPGs now a lot of younger kids seem to not be willing to put in the time/effort in RPGs as we did due to the reading and length etc.

Granted not all the stuff back then was so hard and real complex but it seems to me as if the younger generation of kids are so used to how "easy" and less complex games are today that they have a harder time getting good at and fully appreciating such games.

Now, maybe I am just acting like an old man but I often feel disheartened seeing the younger kids seemingly not even really trying. So what do you think?

F#ckem. Its the younger generation that has ruined things for games. Because the big publishers now cater to them since they're one of the biggest buying blocks, and their expectations are low: sameness is the only requirement. And so publishers are happy to meet that expectation.

When they play CoD its like mommy taking them to McDonalds for a happy meal -- even though its bland garbage, as long as its the same as last time and comes with a toy, kid is happy. When mommy pops a plate full of dino shaped chicken nuggets in front of them, its the same, kid happy. Same for his videogames.

 

[Domingo]

I find myself playing new games just as much as older ones, I just find that the tediousness tends to be lower. Old games forced you to replay the same stuff over and over again because the games were short or they didn’t have save capability. Games that people usually mention like TMNT, Ninja Gaiden, and Battletoads can be played from beginning to end in about 30-45 minutes so they HAD to be tedious and hard.
With PC games you always hear about regenerating life. While a stupid mechanic…is it REALLY any more realistic than healing wounds by running over a little box with a “+” on it? As long as the levels are properly made, I don’t think so. While checkpoints always bother the hardcores, in many cases those are actually a return to old difficulties as being able to hit F5/F7 every 5 seconds essentially makes you invincible.
Tutorials are lame…but with no instruction manuals, you have to do something to teach people what’s going on. I prefer the more streamlined approaches (Darksiders did a good job), but they’re not going anywhere.
I look at PC gaming right now as what hair metal and grunge were to classic rock. 15 years later you hear just as much Motley Crue and Pearl Jam as you do Boston on most Fox stations.

While it’s easy to complain about new games costing $60 and having “only” 12-15 hours of playtime…think back to the days when Strider came out. That game was $60 and could be completed in less than an hour by an average player. Yet it got crazy ratings and was a game of the year candidate. For every Super Mario 3 there were hundreds of run/jump/shoot games that were worse that the most horrid cookie cutter shooter. While I love point/click adventure games, they were also notoriously short and expensive because of the voiceovers and production needed.

When looking back I think most of us remember the high points like SMB3, Phantasy Star, FF, Zelda, Doom, System Shock, Tribes, Daggerfall, Grim Fandango, etc. and forget the bad. There was a lot of full-on bullshit back in the day.

 

[XvMMvX]

Pfft - no idea what all y'all are on about.

REAL games...



...are paper!

What game is this? I love board games but the problem is people to play them with. I wish there were online versions of these great looking games you linked.

What game is in the image?

And this game?

 

[GearChoices]

Probably the Silent Hunter series.

 

[dderidex]

What game is this? I love board games but the problem is people to play them with. I wish there were online versions of these great looking games you linked.

What game is in the image?

The boardgame image is from 'Great War at Sea: Cruiser Warfare', by Avalanche Press. A good game, but not one of their best, I'd recommend starting that series with 'Great War at Sea: Mediterranean'

As to number of players - there are actually quite a few excellent 'solo' wargames, in the 'paper and cardboard' variety.

Modern production values...

...look and play GREAT...



Like...no, seriously, there are SHIT TONS of great single-player 'board' wargames.

And this game?

Second pic (PC game) is Silent Hunter V.

It *is* a very good game, but...I dunno, I like the 'crunchiness' of hex-and-counter wargames. Knowing the *exact* odds when you make an attack, seeing the impact of where the randomness of battle (dice) messes up your attack vs what turned out to be poor planning on your part...it helps you get a feel for what you can 'do better next time' a lot easier.

 

[MavericK]

+1 to board games. I've been collecting/playing them a lot more recently...Eclipse, Battlestar Galactica, Firefly, RoboRally, King of Tokyo, etc...great fun.

The material quality of these games is really quite good.

 

[dderidex]

+1 to board games. I've been collecting/playing them a lot more recently...Eclipse, Battlestar Galactica, Firefly, RoboRally, King of Tokyo, etc...great fun.

The material quality of these games is really quite good.

Indeed, it's no exaggeration to say that boardgames have seen an absolute revolution in production quality, play experience, rules clarity, etc...in the past decade.

Rather similar to the same change in PC games between the 2d side-scrolls and 'modern 3d shooters'. Certain core concepts remain (a good sense of immersion trumps an awful lot of variance in mechanics), but the details of execution have changed so much that it's a VERY different experience from those 'Monopoly' games of your youth.

And game stores have evolved, as well. I have to say, I LOVE our Guardian Games, here in downtown PDX. Most specifically, because of 'The Critical Sip'...their open play area with a bottle bar and beers on tap. Heh. Games and beer.



YES, PLEASE.

 

[TBJ]

I blame IPAD game apps that are "free", worst than game demos.