Are 4K Visuals The Best Use For Project Scorpio And PlayStation Neo?

Megalith

Megalith

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So this is basically a debate as to whether the 2.0 consoles should prioritize framerate instead of resolution. As someone who is convinced that 4K in any (playable) shape or form will make these systems choke, I don’t think developers even have the privilege of pushing resolution.

…could this new console technology be used differently, to achieve tangibly superior results that wouldn't require investing in a new TV? Could Neo and Scorpio actually be used to deliver better gameplay? Resolution aside, there are further options open to developers armed with this substantial boost in GPU power - many titles could be run at 60fps over the standard 30fps, the biggest game-changer in terms of playability. Alternatively, in-game worlds could become deeper, with a much higher degree of simulation - more NPCs, better physics, real-time global illumination - you name it. More time can be invested by developers in GPGPU, the process of utilizing graphics hardware for tasks more traditionally suited to the CPU.
 
I have a flagship 4k tv. HDR 4k Movies are breathtaking. That said, consoles should focus on 60fps and more "environment" before 4k. Just got a Wii U Friday (wife wanted Mario Kart for nostalgia) and although it's not the prettiest console ever it is buttery smooth. Nothing on my PS4 runs at a smooth 60fps. The TV is a true 120hz so the more frames the merrier - should hook my PC up but that's not going to happen... A Corsair 650D in the living room...
 
Well they're getting 4k no matter what, both microsoft and sony wish their consoles to be a centerpiece in home theater right now both consoles are physically incapable of delivering 4k video so they're doing 4k output no matter what it's just a matter of what else they should do besides 4k video. I'm sure 4k games has better marking buzz than more fps but i wouldn't be surprised if they again limit access to resources for games in order to open it up later with optimization down the road.
 
Delivering a constant 60fps with as much eye candy turned on at 1080P is so much more important than 4K resolution. It's funny that the Scorpio is announced having GTX 980 like performance releasing holiday 2017 but we already have 5 graphics cards that out perform and none of them offer truly amazing 4K performance, imagine what the PC will be capable of in 18 months time when it is released, let alone the NEO that will be out later this year.
 
They STILL need to be targeting at least a smooth 30FPS. It's amazing that some games that run at 30FPS on a console still have terrible frame time issues and the bigger TV you run them on the more noticeable it gets. When I'm playing a console game, my expectations are set appropriately, I understand that it's not going to be the best graphical experience, but I do expect the game to run smoothly; there is absolutely no reason a console game shouldn't run smoothly considering they're developing for a specific device.
 
Whats stopping them from rendering some simple things at 4k(Overlays, FMV, etc) and compositing them with 1080p rendered complex geometry? They could hit the 60fps mark and claim 4k.
 
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I'd rather have a game take advantage of the new HDR color spec and render at 1080p/60 than 4k/24 or whatever variable it ends up being. 4K is a highly over rated and a good 1080p panel will give an average 4k panel a run for it's money every time.
 
The decisions have already been made. Resoluton > everything. That's the law now! Shoot the infidels that claim otherwise!

P.S. I'm giving up on consoles now. Maybe I'll start using the "glorious PC master race" bullshit to troll little kids. That's what PC zealots do right?
 
I sold my XB1 just before E3 ( I got super lucky in that regard) but I'll be keeping my PS4 for Dad... err God of War and Horizon but like this passed year I'll be doing 90% of my gaming on a PC as I want both resolution and frame rate.
 
Despite the nicknames, I don't think they're going to have the option unless the graphics settings are turned way down. Given the distance people sit from the TV, I'm not sure it'll even matter. 4k just makes things sharp, so you need AA/Post less.

I think the boost in performance might finally allow games to push the envelope in other areas. 1080p60 with better AI, more NPC's, better graphic fidelity (textures!), better effects, and better physics.
 
And when 4K is the norm, then they'll be 8k coming out. It'll never end.
 
I was talking with people from 343 and a couple of MS internal devs about the 4K announcement (which surprised all of them). We all agreed that based on what we kind of know about the hardware, it would be difficult to achieve true 4K with the Xbox and impossible with the memory limitations of Sony's platform. The general though is 4K will be for limited titles and streaming content, while most games will be rendered out to 1080 with more consistent frame rates. At the average viewing distance and screen size few people will notice an improvement using 4K content anyways. However the possibilities offered with the larger memory and processing will be very noticeable to all users.
 
I see it as a pointless waste of resources. There isn't a huge amount of 4k penetration in the market in respect to TV's and even less of them are actually visibly better. I mean basically if you aren't on a 60"+ TV then 4k is just a straight waste for gaming. I would far rather them guarantee 30fps as the minimum with the graphics detail cranked up even more at 1080p.
 
MrSteel74 said:
Delivering a constant 60fps with as much eye candy turned on at 1080P is so much more important than 4K resolution. It's funny that the Scorpio is announced having GTX 980 like performance releasing holiday 2017 but we already have 5 graphics cards that out perform and none of them offer truly amazing 4K performance, imagine what the PC will be capable of in 18 months time when it is released, let alone the NEO that will be out later this year.
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But then they would have to backpedal their ideal 30fps narrative they've been pushing.
 
I think a little better in the graphics department and a lot in the framerate department is what they need to be focusing on.

Playing 30fps games such as Uncharted 4 was a fucking nightmare, every time you try to move the camera this fucking thing BLURS like a mother fucker.

Their multiplayer (Which i haven't played, just the training) runs at 60fps and with no blur, holy shit what a difference.
 
Yar, the blur was annoying... Not annoying enough to take much out of the game IMHO.


DF-1 said:
I think a little better in the graphics department and a lot in the framerate department is what they need to be focusing on.

Playing 30fps games such as Uncharted 4 was a fucking nightmare, every time you try to move the camera this fucking thing BLURS like a mother fucker.

Their multiplayer (Which i haven't played, just the training) runs at 60fps and with no blur, holy shit what a difference.
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My prophecy is as follows!

These consoles will actually render at 1440p, and upscale+sharpen to 4K.

Also, most average gamers don't actually care about 60fps, as they really dont know any better. In fact, for some, 60fps incites feelings of sped-up footage or smutty soap-operas.
 
this seems to be a mid cycle move to do two things: 1) to cover the needed horsepower in case vr takes off. Sony seems to be pushing strond in that area with playstation vr. 2) Squeeze money out of small group of people that is willing to pay for better specs for better looking games. Since I don't have a ps4 yet, I may pick a neo up, unless it cost too much or find a heck of a deal on regular ps4.
Last generation, a lot of people complained/wanted more powerful systems before the gen ended. well this kinda solves that issue for this gen.
 
Resolution is not that important.

There is still much more to making something "realistic". Polygon count would probably be a better start.

Both videos are set to start at same position on the track.



 
Lol these consoles aren't intended to push 4K resolution games, just movie content.

I seriously doubt any developer will push a game at 4K on these unless it's using 16x16 textures and no shadowing.
 
Trimlock said:
Lol these consoles aren't intended to push 4K resolution games, just movie content.

I seriously doubt any developer will push a game at 4K on these unless it's using 16x16 textures and no shadowing.
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So edgy, wow.


But seriously, Here is the thing: Consoles are nature's balance of what people expect for a given amount of horsepower.

If the average joe-blow wanted 60FPS, then consoles would sacrifice still-image quality and run their games at 60FPS.

If the average joe-blow was willing to sacrifice smooth motion in order to get better image quality, consoles would... be exactly as they are today.

Screenshots and trailers sell games. Trailers run at 30 or even 24 FPS, screenshots don't have a framerate.

If one console decided to require 60FPS, game devs on that platform would have to lower shader quality, shadow precision... The motion would improve though. But what if the RIVAL console decides to say 'screw that' and lets developers run their games at 30. The screenshots of the rival console would be SO much better, as they would be able to take twice as much time to pretty-up each frame.

"But that console doesn't run at 60FPS"

Yeah, WE, as PC GAMERS understand that, but not Joe-blow. Mr. Blow saw his friend playing and it looked really good (mind you, FPS matters MUCH less when passively watching versus participating).

It would be suicide for a console to demand 60FPS.
 
Microsoft elected to implement 12 compute units, two geometry engines and 16 ROPs, while Sony went for 18 CUs, two geometry engines and 32 ROPs.

If you simply start adding enough ROPs to enhance the original 12 compute unit design until it's able to do 4k60, then add more compute units until you get 6 teraflops than its clearly possible.
 
Glad I am not the only one who has thought of this. I'd rather have 1080p/60 and breathtaking visuals than 4k/30 with average graphics.

I've always thought 4k on a TV was overkill. 1440p upscaled to a 4k screen should look pretty good. They can use the rest of the horsepower for better uses.

There is a lot of talk about how the system is capible of 4k but I bet a lot of developers will make games that run at 1080p/60 and upscaled to 4k.
 
Quix said:
The decisions have already been made. Resoluton > everything. That's the law now! Shoot the infidels that claim otherwise!

P.S. I'm giving up on consoles now. Maybe I'll start using the "glorious PC master race" bullshit to troll little kids. That's what PC zealots do right?
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Not really. PC Gamers don't give a shit. The "master race" thing is a funny joke, but I would never waste my time comparing consoles to PCs.

Maybe I am not a zealot then. I like consoles, or well, I liked consoles. But you know, it was always about the games. The care that the devs and the comapnies put into the games. I remember saying I would never get a Dreamcast, never play Sonic Adventure. Then I saw it at Toys R Us for some reason. I could not believe how brilliant and joyful it looked. I had to have it. That was what a console was about for me, fun. That is what Nintendo understands, that is what people have forgotten.

That is why Overwatch is so huge. It is just FUN. it is greater than the sum of its parts.

Well, it is fun on the PC anyway.
 
IMO, framerate is 100x more important than resolution. After thinking the jump from 480p to 720p to 1080p was large each time, the jump to 4K has been underwhelming to me. It looks better, but exponentially less than those other jumps. At the same time, I feel 30fps to 60fps is huge. I can barely stomach 30fps these days, even on wonderful games.

If the new systems can't give me 60fps, I probably won't buy them. I'd even settle for 900p or some upscaled bastard resolution.
 
Galvin said:
And when 4K is the norm, then they'll be 8k coming out. It'll never end.
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It'll end, just like consumer printer DPI and audio rates/depths have basically hit a limit

for screens of course it depends on the size of the image, but I'm guessing it'll be similar to print

for VR we may need upwards of 32 or 64k (or more) to match eye-resolution, beyond which point it'll be impossible to see any more detail
 
I doubt the new consoles can render 4k even at 30 fps. It will more likely be 1080 and upscaled to 4k output.
 
I'm pretty sure something like Pong would render fine at 4k/30fps
 
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