Apple’s Apology for Batterygate Didn’t Go Far Enough

Discussion in 'HardForum Tech News' started by Megalith, Dec 30, 2017.

  1. daglesj

    daglesj [H]ardness Supreme

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    Always amazed at the low mile oil change intervals in the US. I wonder if that's to keep all those Jiffy Lubes (which only appear to exist in the NA continent) going?
     
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  2. Mchart

    Mchart 2[H]4U

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    None of the manufacturers support it anymore. Almost all are 10k miles / 1 year now.

    As for the light - If the guy means to ignore the interval light - This is generally safe to do assuming you are a responsible person who checks their oil and tracks when they need to change it.

    You'd be insane to ignore the low oil pressure light though. That would be really stupid to do.
     
  3. 86 5.0L

    86 5.0L [H]ardness Supreme

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    fuck that, I dont trust oil for that long. unless your pan/capacity is 8 quarts+
     
  4. BulletDust

    BulletDust [H]ardness Supreme

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    With the advent of high compression/high boost (16psi+) direct injected engines running on the rich side to keep combustion temps controllable, you'd be stupid to stretch oil changes out to 15k+/12month+ intervals.

    My Mazda 3 MPS get's it's oil changed 'no later' than 10,000k/6 monthly intervals.
     
  5. Mchart

    Mchart 2[H]4U

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    Oil technology has changed a lot in the past decade. Many manufacturers are directing ACEA A5/B5 oils now. Couple that with improved crankcase ventilation systems the interval can go a lot longer now.
     
  6. Mchart

    Mchart 2[H]4U

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    MZR-DISI was a cool engine for it's time, but being that it was first-gen direct injection it had a ton of problems.

    Conversely the Drive-E Polestar is twincharged running 32PSI and it has none of the issues the MZR-DISI had.
     
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  7. BulletDust

    BulletDust [H]ardness Supreme

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    So has the technology involved in the various power units in the chase for efficiency vs emissions.

    2 - 2.3L engines running between 16 - 28psi boost with high compression and between 195 - 265kw's need their oil changed earlier than 15,000k/12 months no matter what the manufacturer's 'sales pitch' to keep servicing costs attractive may say.
     
  8. daglesj

    daglesj [H]ardness Supreme

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    Yeah what does the rest of the world know and the combined wealth of automotive experience and R&D eh?


    I still know folks that think burning audio CDs at 1x is stil the best way. Ignoring the fact that really stems from the late 90's burners not having buffer protection and that modern CD dyes are designed to burn at far higher speeds to work properly.

    The world moves on...don't get left behind!:cool:;)
     
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  9. BulletDust

    BulletDust [H]ardness Supreme

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    I worked on Mazda's for 25 years, never saw any issues arise aside from VCT actuators, breather problems and people that didn't change their oil every 10,000k/6 months - The oil change issue was the biggest problem by far and almost always the reason why the Borg Warner TD04 failed.

    I can guarantee you it will also be the issue causing the M133 engine's turbo oil feed line to carbon up.

    215,000klms out of the MPS and never had so much as the cam cover off, original TD04 turbo, original oil feed line. Runs like new on fully synthetic oil getting changed no later than 10,000klms/6 months.
     
    Last edited: Dec 31, 2017
  10. Mchart

    Mchart 2[H]4U

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    Warranty times are still the same length if not longer. You're being quite foolish thinking things haven't improved in 15 years. You're comparing a 15 year old engine design that had some teething issues for being bleeding edge at the time to more recent new engine architectures coupled with vastly improved oil standards like ACEA A5/B5.

    I never said you shouldn't be oil changing your MZR-DISI that often, but at this point you're going to argue just to argue so have at it.
     
    Last edited: Dec 31, 2017
  11. 86 5.0L

    86 5.0L [H]ardness Supreme

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    you do you boo

    all i know is corporations are all about the bottom line. they dont recommend 15,000 mile oil changes cause they want whats best for you.

    ill stretch out full syn oil to 7,500 miles, blended every 5,000 miles, new filter each time. again depends on oil capacity too
     
  12. BulletDust

    BulletDust [H]ardness Supreme

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    Warranty claims are also higher, did you read the part about me working in the trade for 25 years? And Mazda has one of the best warranty statistics around. Once again, don't make the mistake of questioning my intelligence.

    Anyway, this is a thread on crappy iPhones, not engine oil.
     
  13. mope54

    mope54 [H]ardness Supreme

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    Like oil changes, Apple would make more profit from getting people in the door to change their batteries than selling new devices. It's hilarious how the thread devolved into bickering about engine oil but fucking ridiculous you guys think the conspiracy would be to sell new cars and new phones to unsuspecting people :\
     
  14. Derangel

    Derangel [H]ard as it Gets

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    There probably is some truth to Apple wanting people to upgrade all the time, and some of that thought easily could have gone into the reason why they never informed users of this before. That said, if Apple was as desperate to push people to upgrade as everyone is claiming they wouldn't provide OS support for four years. They'd do what Android manus do and maybe support for 12-24 months (if you're lucky) before moving on and forcing people to upgrade their devices to get new updates.
     
  15. Uvaman2

    Uvaman2 2[H]4U

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    There isn't 'some' truth.. these things are part of design.. and its not a secret concept or conspiracy theory. Apple is just picking your poison.. I agree letting devices languish for updates might be more effective, but the optics are not optimal vs. Android, it would be effectively giving up a marketing edge for no reason since their hardware is so limited in terms of models its much easier to support them for much longer. Batteries degrade that is a fact, choosing nin removable batteries is the core desing choice for planned obsolesce, this update aimed to remove, basically looking like any other common shit device that starts shutting off randomly, just so happens that it can't be done without detriment to the experience is a planned bonus, they could have opted for education, the option to throttle, and should always have cheap, near cost fast battery replacement.. this would have put them bar none above everyone else.. but they and their billions didn't do that, just the same shit move any other manufacturer would.
     
  16. nilepez

    nilepez [H]ardForum Junkie

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    I think it was more intermittent prior to iOS 10. I noticed it on an iPhone 6, but the 6s+ was unaffected. I assumed it was because the 6 was an older processor, but still seemed a bit early for the 2015 phone to slow down that much.

    They're never going to do that (and I wouldn't either). If they do that, then literally every person that owned a 6 or 6+ that then bought an iPhone 7 or 8 could get a free phone.

    The class action will take care of those who upgraded in some way, but it's not going to be a free phone for all.

    As for the battery deal, I think that's a reasonable price. I wish they'd leave it at the price permanently. As it stands, I fully intend to swap out my batter at the end of the year, even though I suspect the 6s+ battery will be in fine shape.
     
  17. daglesj

    daglesj [H]ardness Supreme

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    As long as you got money to burn chap, you keep adding to the toxic waste pile for no good reason.

    Same for those that buy a new phone every 6 to 12 to 18 months.
     
    Last edited: Jan 1, 2018
  18. BulletDust

    BulletDust [H]ardness Supreme

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    While I don't agree in any way with extended service intervals on today's highly strung power units, take it to PM.

    This is a thread on the obvious manipulation of Apple regarding iOS upgrades.
     
  19. daglesj

    daglesj [H]ardness Supreme

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    And edited to comply with Director Bulletdust's requirements.
     
  20. opfreak

    opfreak Gawd

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    I'm sure there are more. But whole cow I thought that [H]ard members would be smarter, instead there are a bunch of apple white knights.

    Apple lied to people.
    Apple created a product with a defective battery.

    Here is why: When batteries age, the typical behavior is the device doesn't last as long. Apples phones because of undersized/underspecd/cheap batteries after a period of time can no longer run at full speed without shutting down. Instead of replacing batteries on phones that would shut down when the CPU would be running full speed, apple capped the phone speed.

    And then apple did NOT tell anyone they did this. They just snuck in a 'patch' that secretly slowed down peoples phones. Only after some reddit users started testing their phones, and geekbench went through their database and release data, did apple come out an admit what they did.

    So they should replace the bad batteries for everyone for free. Because they sold you a product that is defective.

    And everyone that bought an iPhone, and continues buying them until apple clearly states how much and when they slow down the phone should ethier qualify for free battery replacements, or some refund. Because I would not have bought another iPhone if it was clear that apple would slow it down after a year or so.
     
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  21. opfreak

    opfreak Gawd

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    Samsung is pretty clear about the number of writes it warrants its drives too.

    Where is apples disclaimer that its phone will slow down after about a year?
     
  22. opfreak

    opfreak Gawd

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    no possible to have a fast iPhone after the battery ages. It physically cannot provide enough juice.
     
  23. opfreak

    opfreak Gawd

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    OK, I don't trust GMs system, but I trust a guy that yells all the time, and uses Slick 50? LOL. GMs system tells you when the oil is old, not when you are low. guy is a blowhard.
     
  24. DukenukemX

    DukenukemX [H]ardness Supreme

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    If Apple was looking to make money from people replacing batteries then not only would Apple not show down the SoC, but they're have an equivalent oil change light for the battery. The OS support is something Apple does to keep the ecosystem from breaking apart. What consumer would go with iOS when only newer version of the device gets the latest iOS updates? Especially if this breaks software compatibility.

    Remember Apple is all about making it convenient to go with their products. Things like changing batteries and a lack of software updates would be very inconvenient.
     
  25. DukenukemX

    DukenukemX [H]ardness Supreme

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    His point is that the oil change light come on way too late or doesn't come on at all. Also I would imagine GM cars have a low oil light too. God knows my C5 Corvette does, cause the damn oil pressure sensor was faulty as shit on them.
     
  26. Mchart

    Mchart 2[H]4U

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    Apple is clear about available battery capacity as well. You can download numerous free apps that will show the battery health. They aren’t hiding anything.
     
  27. opfreak

    opfreak Gawd

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    Please show me where apple is clear about the battery capacity? And if you do find it, please point out where they clearly spell out your phone will run slower year after year.

    I wont hold my breath.
     
  28. westrock2000

    westrock2000 [H]ardForum Junkie

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    Shit that is bad, you're right, I need to retweet this info.

    [​IMG]
     
  29. westrock2000

    westrock2000 [H]ardForum Junkie

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    This was a matter of the battery voltage dipping below the allowable limit and <possibly> causing a reboot, crash, power down, or other disruptive result. I couldn't see any company purposefully putting such an option in place to allow that disruption to happen. The comparison I have made previously was the temperature throttling on CPU's. You don't have a choice to turn it off, you can only do things that avoid such a situation, but once you hit that temp the CPU throttles no matter what.
     
  30. mope54

    mope54 [H]ardness Supreme

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    There are numerous apps in the store one can download for free, which he already mentioned.

    If you want a diagnostic from Apple directly, you can walk into any store and request one, message them via chat, call them on the phone, or tweet them. Apple support will DM you with a request for your serial # and iOS version and then authorize your phone for a remote diagnostic which you can then access via settings.

    Fact of the matter is you don't know anything about any of the support options available to customers because you aren't an Apple customer and likely won't ever be one...like most of the loudest complainers in this thread and elsewhere.
     
  31. opfreak

    opfreak Gawd

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    So apple isn't clear about battery capacity like Samsung is about writes.

    3rd part tools are not apple tools.

    facts owned a 6, 6s, yes I have a note 8 now, but just got my wife a 8,.

    So stop bullshitting about apple being clear and open about their battery life.

    no where do they say old batteries lead to capped cpu performance. no where.
     
  32. I'm not a white knight. I slam apple regularly.

    The point is with any older battery the current becomes inherently flaky and unstable. Even now my moto x 2nd gen shuts down if I start up the camera with 40% juice. 20% if I'm viewing videos.

    I would personally take a slow down if I could delay my battery replacement 6 months to a year. (I hate cracking open the phone...epic pain in the duckass)
     
  33. opfreak

    opfreak Gawd

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    So your cool with the hardware manufacture slowing down your phone without telling you. got it.

    How slow are you ok with them doing it? 90%? as long as it doesn't shut down that its cool right?
     
  34. Mchart

    Mchart 2[H]4U

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    Uh, yes.

    My cell phone is a lifeline. If it shuts down when I need to do shit on it would be bad. This is why I’ll take a CPU throttling and a bit of slowness once the battery is crap rather than a complete power loss. I’ve experienced this on my HTC M8 and it’s why I upgraded off that phone... should I sue HTC because they didn’t do what Apple did?

    Pure idiocy.
     
  35. RayderR6

    RayderR6 Limp Gawd

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  36. Uvaman2

    Uvaman2 2[H]4U

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    Point=missed
     
  37. Mchart

    Mchart 2[H]4U

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    I don’t particularly care as I don’t view the world in black / white. If Apple fucks up they fuck up. I don’t view this as a fuckup as it ultimately was beneficial to the user.

    The fuckup on Apples part is continuing to push device thinness when no one cares at this point. Give us a marginally thicker device with a larger battery.
     
  38. opfreak

    opfreak Gawd

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    just buy a flip phone then.
     
  39. nysmo

    nysmo Gawd

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    Throttling CPU doesnt mean your battery will never die. Maybe your phone will die in 5 hours instead of 8, but this seems like something the user should be in charge of, not the OS. It's like the "15% battery saver" mode that kicks on, at least with android. There's a very obvious and visible alert so you know whats happening to your device. Except now it kicks on at 50% or whatever is necessary to keep up the same % of daily usage. Me personally I'd rather charge more often than have a shit phone 100% of the time.
     
  40. Domingow

    Domingow 2[H]4U

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