Apple’s Apology for Batterygate Didn’t Go Far Enough

Discussion in 'HardForum Tech News' started by Megalith, Dec 30, 2017.

  1. BulletDust

    BulletDust [H]ardness Supreme

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    They don't even need to do that.

    What they needed to do was admit, back in the day of the iPhone 4 when everyone was complaining how the iPhone 5 had been released 'with a new iOS update' and their now older iPhone 4 was running slow, that Apple were deliberately manipulating their phone via software to forcibly make it run slower than it should have been running - This has been going on for years!

    Worn out batteries my ass.
     
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  2. NeoNemesis

    NeoNemesis 2[H]4U

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    All Apple had to do to avoid this entire fiasco was NOT do anything.

    At this point, they need to apologise and then update their software to let users select whether they want a fast device that drains slowly or a slow device that lasts longer. Not exactly rocket science.

    That said, if there intention was to force people to upgrade by surreptitiously slowing down their devices then I hope they get raked over the coals.
     
  3. Mchart

    Mchart 2[H]4U

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    Tell that to people with worn out batteries whose phones were crashing.

    Y’all are being stupid about this.
     
  4. Mchart

    Mchart 2[H]4U

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    I quoted this in the hopes you’ll sit back and read your own stuff before looking like an idiot again.
     
  5. NeoNemesis

    NeoNemesis 2[H]4U

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    Of course Apple COULD make removable batteries, but why should they? Nobody else makes them anymore.

    An non removable battery allows for smaller, sleeker phones with bigger batteries and waterproofing. I've lost more phones to water than I have to battery degradation.

    Also, Apple only charges $100 to replace the battery, it isn't that bad compared to what a replacement phone would cost.

    So you're advocating keeping customers in the dark about the status of their battery? Making them think they need a whole new device when they just need a new battery? How is that ethical AT ALL?
     
  6. BulletDust

    BulletDust [H]ardness Supreme

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    Where's the evidence that phones were crashing as a result of 'worn out batteries'?
     
  7. Mchart

    Mchart 2[H]4U

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    Pretty much common knowledge for the past decade on both Android devices and Apple devices. Recently, the iPhone 6 in particular was having a lot of crashing issues due to worn out batteries so Apple pushed the update out that throttles the hardware. This 'magically' fixed the issues as it throttled the hardware to prevent the device from over-drawing.

    If you want more 'evidence' for what I would have hoped was common knowledge just look at the recent case of the new Note not booting up after the battery has been discharged to zero. In this case even with a brand new battery they designed the phone poorly to where it can't reach a state to even charge itself as they let the battery get over-discharged due to poor design.

    Any device, including all the Android ones, will do this once the battery reaches a certain point of degradation. It just tended to happen faster on iPhone's as iPhones generally have smaller batteries which means they will more quickly reach a state where the appropriate voltage can't be sustained at higher loads.
     
  8. BulletDust

    BulletDust [H]ardness Supreme

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    Nexus 5 for the last 4 years on the same battery, no crashing.

    The fact that Apple chose to limit the performance of devices without informing the user and without the users consent indicates malicious marketing, there's no two ways about it. If there's a chance that an update could affect battery life, you inform the user and make it their decision as to whether their device gets throttled or not.

    Contrary to modern belief, it's not Apple's phone.
     
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  9. Mchart

    Mchart 2[H]4U

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    Cool story bro.

    And 100% meaningless without reporting the state of the battery. Obviously a battery can last 4 years if you aren't giving it a substantial discharge every day for four years. With enough usage your device -will- start crashing randomly once the battery reaches under the 50% range (Or if it's really bad, even 100% won't be enough).
     
  10. BulletDust

    BulletDust [H]ardness Supreme

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    Same to you, high five. :rolleyes:
     
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  11. Mchart

    Mchart 2[H]4U

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    It's hard to believe someone on a technology forum could be this dense about how battery technology and these phones work.

    This is no different then running a fubar battery in a car. It might be good enough to let your car get jumped, or maybe even start it once - But eventually all batteries get to the point where they can't supply enough current at the voltage the circuit/system requires. This is like turning on your headlights with an old battery and the car shuts off because there isn't enough left to power the spark plugs, etc.

    Just because it hasn't happened to you with your obviously limited experience doesn't mean your small subjective sampling is objective reality of the situation.
     
    Last edited: Dec 30, 2017
  12. ManofGod

    ManofGod [H]ardForum Junkie

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    What do you mean it did not go far enough? My friend is getting a iPhone 6+ direct replacement phone shipped directly too him, no cost.
     
  13. Whatever, boys and girls. My new Moto E4 has a removable/replaceable battery, runs Android quite well, has been memory-expanded to 80GB via mem card, etc.

    $130 at Walmart. I got it for $40 at Walmart, but I'm locked into Verizon for one year.

    The phone works super-duper, great Android experience.

    And, ya know what? It's a great phone. As in, I can make and receive calls superdiciously well, no dropped calls, no "can you hear me now?" crapitastic issues.
    Remember when quality of voice communication was still an issue?

    I would be too paranoid/annoyed if I had a flagship iPhone.

    And I'm not trying to impress anybody.

    Too each their own.
     
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  14. cyclone3d

    cyclone3d [H]ardForum Junkie

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    The iPhone 6 isn't really sealed. You just have to remove 2 screws to take the cover off. The main problem is that the batteries are put in with some sticky glue or double sided tape stuff that makes it a huge pain to get the battery out.
     
  15. BulletDust

    BulletDust [H]ardness Supreme

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    Nice ninja edit, and don't make the mistake of questioning my intelligence.

    He who believes Apple's his friend and this is just a case of Apple trying to look after the consumer.
     
  16. DF-1

    DF-1 2[H]4U

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    "batterygate"

    really?

    and im the first to mention, and in the 2nd page? this isn't the [H] i know!
     
  17. 86 5.0L

    86 5.0L [H]ardness Supreme

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    My phone has a new battery and still crashes... So...
     
  18. Ebernanut

    Ebernanut [H]ard|Gawd

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    Ditto on the bolded part. For one thing lead acid batteries and lithium batteries are completely different and the applications are as well*, your analogy is pointless other than to point out that batteries degrade over time which I don't think anyone is refuting.

    The only issue I've ever heard of is that the increased internal resistance of a degraded lipo cell can cause it to drop voltage more under load which can drop voltage to below the cutoff, this means that the phone will turn off under load when the battery is showing that it's low but not dead. This should never be an issue at anywhere near nominal voltage or above, if a cell drops from 3.7v to say 3v(common cutoff) under load it's severely damaged not simply degraded**.

    *Headlights should also be running off of the alternator(or generator on a really old car) so if your car dies when you turn on the headlights it's probably the alternator or voltage regulator not the battery.

    **Edit: Or it was a low CDR battery that never was up to the task.
     
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  19. Mchart

    Mchart 2[H]4U

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    And the sky is blue. If you've replaced the battery and your phone is still shitting the bed you might want to look at replacing it.

    Ultimately all these smart phone manufacturers aren't going to warranty their phones beyond the two year mark, and that's if they even offer anything beyond one year.

    Unless you vote with your wallet you aren't getting a long lasting device. You're getting a shitty consumer electronic that was designed to last 1-2 years tops.
     
  20. Mchart

    Mchart 2[H]4U

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    The very posts in this thread tells us differently.
     
  21. Ebernanut

    Ebernanut [H]ard|Gawd

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    Can you point out a single post in this thread claiming that batteries don't degrade?
     
  22. DukenukemX

    DukenukemX [H]ardness Supreme

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    You're right. Apple should also include headphone jacks. Da fuck was I thinking?

    Everyone else is copying Apple. Particularly Samsung. The reason to not have removable batteries is to push you to buy the next iPhone. But as we've seen with both Apple and especially Samsung, the sealed battery idea works both ways. When you ship phones with defective batteries you can't just send out replacement batteries. In Samsungs case, they literally lost the Note 7.
    Meet the LG V20. A water proof, removable battery. Has the same 7.7 mm thickness as the iPhone X. Also the battery is 3200mAh while the iPhone X is 2716. To be fair the LG V30 does not have a removable battery, but is 7.4mm thick, has a 3300mAh battery. So you may have a point, although the V20 is a year older.
    [​IMG]
    As opposed to just removing it yourself with your own hands? To me it just seems stupid that a several hundred dollar device has a battery that is known to wear down. It's just common sense that it should be easily removable. Like changing the oil in your car. Has to be done at some point, and I don't pay anyone $100 to change it either.
     
  23. Unter Dog

    Unter Dog Limp Gawd

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    Both my 6s and my wife’s 6 ran into the crashing issue. I replaced my battery and it went away.

    Apple is running their processors too close to the redline.

    A good question I heard was if their year over year improvements built in battery slow down.
     
  24. Mchart

    Mchart 2[H]4U

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    Why is it that people assume because i'm defending Apple's choice in this particular case that i'm broadly defending Apple.

    I'm not.

    I hate the thin-ness wars.

    I hate sealed phone designs.

    I hate the removal of the headphone jack.

    If Apple wanted my business again they'd make an iPhone SE sized phone with the latest SoC, a couple mm thicker, keep the headphone jack, give a USB C port instead of lightning, OLED panel, edge-to-edge display, not sealed design that is similar to pre-iPhone 4 where the battery was super easy to replace on iphones (The phones were 'sealed', but all you had to do was unscrew two screws and it was that easy to open the phone), and as large of a battery as they could fit.

    Unfortunately the market doesn't want this and wants massive phones that are the size of that light saber you show there that are also as thin as possible and generally aren't user friendly.

    I'll point out that at the very least in Apple's favor the iPhone 8 still has a battery that most people can replace even with the new sealing crap they put on it. Pretty much every other flagship phone's battery is typically in the phone in such a way where there is more work involved then just cracking the phone open. They don't use the self-removing adhesive tabs on the battery like Apple, and Apple at the very least still uses the two screws at the bottom to hold the phone together. The Z3 Compact I have and the Galaxy S7 I have as far as I can tell are just held together by the adhesive and I wouldn't trust I could re-assemble them once I melted the adhesive.
     
    Last edited: Dec 31, 2017
  25. 86 5.0L

    86 5.0L [H]ardness Supreme

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    People are dumb and want easy. That's the driving force.

    Ever tried an oil change on a transmission now a days? They're sealed. "Supposedly" good for 100,000 miles
     
  26. NeoNemesis

    NeoNemesis 2[H]4U

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    The V20 was barely water resistant. Not sure what the rating is but it couldn't survive a full submersion due to the removable battery.

    My Samsung a5 has already gone swimming several times by accident and is still 100%.

    At any rate, Apple charges $79 for a replacement battery include parts and labor. The price isn't that bad considering you get 3+ years of use out of the damn thing before it goes tits up.
     
  27. DeeFrag

    DeeFrag [H]ardness Supreme

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    Has anyone done back to back testing to see if a new battery will speed up an old phone to it's full performance? Or has apple tossed out a cheap battery replacement to distract from the fact they slow down old phones to get people to upgrade?
     
  28. Mchart

    Mchart 2[H]4U

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    $29 now..
     
  29. Mchart

    Mchart 2[H]4U

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    Yes, read the original news story where a guy replaced the battery and his device scored higher in geekbench as it wasn't being throttled any longer. Apple has absolutely no incentive to replace your battery with a shit battery given how much bad press they would receive.
     
  30. aokman

    aokman Gawd

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    Why should Apple offer free replacement batteries? Jesus you people are fuked in the head seriously, it is a wear and tear item just like a tire, suspension, bushings etc. It is all a load of crap, I have an iPhone 6 and iPhone 7 and both perform perfectly.

    This is nothing more than Android fanboys trothing at the mouth because they finally found a chink in Apple armour even though they have have the exact same problem with devices switching off instantly but oh thats not a problem at all........
     
  31. ///AMG

    ///AMG 2[H]4U

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    First of all that analyst is really really stupid. Anyone with any common sense would know that if Apple gave ANYTHING away for free (and this is somthing they charged $80+ for before) and only 250k people out of the 10s of millions of owners would take up that offer, they are retarded. If I was his boss I would fire him for making such a stupid statement. I will say that I agree with most people that Apple should have told people, but asking Apple to give free battery replacements especially for phones that are out of warranty is really stupid. I for one will be taking them up on their offer sometime in the next year for all 7 of the iPhone 7s that I bought for family members. The last time I had a battery replaced was an iPad Air and they didnt actually replace the battery gave me a refurbished but in brand new condition iPad Air I was in and out in 5 minutes. I figure thats what they will do with the 7s because it would take a while for them to take it apart put a new one in then reseal it.
     
  32. SDplus

    SDplus Limp Gawd

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    I hope this debacle will lead to some Android developers returning to some models with user replaceable batteries... I'm not changing from my V20 until there is a model with comparable functionality and replaceable batteries.
     
  33. DukenukemX

    DukenukemX [H]ardness Supreme

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    The problem with this is that the market is influencial. Take a look at the SD Card slot where Samsung at some point decided to remove it, and then the market cried and they put it back. But things like a removable battery isn't something you change everyday, and by the time the battery is worn down, your up for an upgrade anyway. Even the QWERTY keyboard was removed to make it cheaper to manufacture and the consumer didn't mind it, even though typing on a touchscreen is still bullshit and the on screen keyboard takes up half the screen. We compensate this by making the screen bigger, but we removed it to make it thinner.

    How long did it take people to notice that their phones were running slower? Consumers are dumb, and don't notice these things too easily.
    Yes I have, cause I bought a Lexus IS250 07 with 175k miles and it's a transmission that supposedly never needs oil to be changed. I changed it myself and I never seen a more black fluid in my life. The pan has like 5 magnets that were all covered in shit. I changed the filter too. But like the iPhone battery, it can be done. The problem is it's a far more involved process than it needs to be.

    The Galaxy S5? Waterproof and removable battery. I'm just saying there's no excuse not to have removable batteries.

     
  34. Dekoth-E-

    Dekoth-E- [H]ardness Supreme

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    No it isn't. $29 for an old as dirt phone is pretty much "haha, fuck you sucker". It isn't the consumers fault Apple intentionally adopted this anti consumer design to prevent battery replacement. The battery should cost what every other one does, less than $10 with Apple eating labor.

    So while I do agree Apple shouldn't have to do it free, I'm just saying that $29 is a ripoff and anyone who doesn't see that is clearly used to getting taken advantage of by Apple.
     
    Last edited: Dec 31, 2017
  35. Dekoth-E-

    Dekoth-E- [H]ardness Supreme

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    Good for you... But my old as dirt gnex is better than that piece of shit.
     
  36. gxp500

    gxp500 Gawd

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    Does gm limit the speed of the car if the brakes or tires are worn out?
     
  37. DukenukemX

    DukenukemX [H]ardness Supreme

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    The equivalent would be the oil light, where in some cars it either comes on too late or not at all. If you're a stupid ignorant consumers (and most are), you'll only change the oil when the oil light comes on. Even then, if you feel like it. Again why? Another method of planned obsolescence.

     
  38. gxp500

    gxp500 Gawd

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    The oil light is a low oil pressure warning light, not an oil life light, it comes on when the oil pressure is below ~10psi or when the engine is starved of oil. And it seems like the engine in that video wasn't starved of oil if it didn't come on. This scotty guy knows this but he's making a sensational video for $$$ first.
    The engine oil life is simply a countdown timer based on runtime, speed, start/stop and other variables and is very accurate on gm cars. Some cars have it, some don't, so if the car doesn't have it and you're waiting for a light(low oil pressure) to come on to change the oil then you're an idiot. There's no planned obsolescence here, everything is written in the owners manual, but theres no cpu throttling written in the iphone manual.
     
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  39. p05ta1

    p05ta1 Limp Gawd

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    IPhone 6 is easy to swap the battery.
    I did my kids in 20 min no problems .
    But than again I have all the things I could need to do it too.
    Newer iphones get more tricky with sealed water proofing.
     
  40. daglesj

    daglesj [H]ardness Supreme

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    Just glad I have a LG G4...