Apple Won't Charge Extra for 4K Movies, Upgrades 1080p Flicks for Free

Discussion in '[H]ard|OCP Front Page News' started by Megalith, Sep 12, 2017.

  1. Megalith

    Megalith 24-bit/48kHz Staff Member

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    The company’s Apple TV 4K announcement didn’t excite me too much due to the many alternatives out there, but I do like the fact that owners will not have to pay more for better quality video: the new box will be able to stream Ultra HD movies from major Hollywood studios purchased through iTunes for the same price as the HD version. It supports the HDR 10 spec, as well as Dolby Vision HDR.

    Apple also is working with Netflix and Amazon Prime Video to add support for the streamer’s 4K titles later this year. And the new box’s TV app will include a dedicated “Sports” tab, highlighting live sports scores based on users’ preferences. That will deliver on-screen notifications if their favorite teams are playing, and will be able to launch live-streaming games (if those are available, of course; ESPN’s Apple TV app was shown during the presentation).
     
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  2. Dunnlang

    Dunnlang Limp Gawd

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    Please let this be the standard!
     
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  3. twonunpackmule

    twonunpackmule Gawd

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    Oh, good thing I held out. I'll probably nab this then. I wanted the mirroring feature for my iPhone. Almost bought a cheaper Android tablet for my Roku mirroring.
     
  4. M76

    M76 [H]ardness Supreme

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    That's nice. I always thought that once you purchased a movie on any medium you should get access to all versions of it.You're not paying for medium it's delivered on, you're paying for the home screening rights of that intellectual property.
     
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  5. SparkedFire

    SparkedFire [H]ard|Gawd

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    I completely agree, but money is what everyone wants.
     
  6. defaultluser

    defaultluser [H]ardForum Junkie

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    Apple wants to charge the same for 4k movies ($20), but has made no such commitment. The movie companies want $25-30 for the movies. Final price has not been decided as-of announcement, but I'd expect it to go up. You know, like the 256Kbps DRM-Free tracks on ITunes, which jumped to $1.29.

    If there's no price premium, what's the enticement for companies to upgrade their older titles at all? And newer titles are already painless, as they're scanned at 4k or 8k for editing...but companies will still want their premium cut.

    Apple simply committed to auto-upgrading your library of existing purchases WHEN they make the 4k content available. That's their call to eat that cost, to keep their current users locked-in and happy.

    But that's assuming the upgrade will even happen. With Apple's $20-or-bust pricing, it could scare away a large percentage of older 4k conversions. APPLE HAS ONLY COMMITTED TO FREE UPGRADES FOR MOVIES THAT GET RELEASED ON THEIR SYSTEM.
     
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2017
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  7. Dunnlang

    Dunnlang Limp Gawd

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    The only exception should be when they make meaningful remasters or recuts. They should not be able to just do lip service to a remaster and call it "new". It's fair to pay money when work is done on a product.
     
  8. Zarathustra[H]

    Zarathustra[H] Pick your own.....you deserve it.

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    I'm not usually an Apple fan, but here is one where I have to give them Kudos.

    This has been one of the reasons I don't buy as many movies as I once did.

    I bought them one on DVD, then again on 1080p bluray, and now again on 4k? I just want to buy my favorites once and be done with it.
     
  9. DejaWiz

    DejaWiz Oracle of Unfortunate Truths

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    Wow...never thought I'd see the day where I would commend Apple for something they did. Bravo, Apple...bravo.
     
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  10. Iratus

    Iratus Gawd

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    Interested to check it out now but the important point is still quality. If it's still low bit rate but high res then I'm not interested.

    That said I'd definitely feel better about a reliable company that can sell me media-less content that keeps current. I've got 400 Blu Rays sitting in drawers and they are definitely watched less because they are on a disk.
     
  11. rive22

    rive22 [H]ardness Supreme

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    Apple; bringing bitstarved video to a computer near you.
     
  12. defaultluser

    defaultluser [H]ardForum Junkie

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    And that is why you rip your own media. You can get a 30-day trial of DVDFab for free, and that should be plenty of time to RIP THE MAJORITY of that 400 movies to disk. Takes around 20-30 minutes a rip with a 6x drive.

    You'd be surprised how few of those movies in your library have troublesome encryption that actually requires a software update. It's become a lot less of an issue in the last few years, with less companies making the effort to stop the pirates. They seem to care more about protecting 4k content than anything else. I've only encountered two BluRay movies in the last five years (Moana and Kingsman) that don't rip on my DVDFab copy from 2012.

    And the best part about waiting years to rip your old Blu-Rays is that the few titles that are hard to rip on-release have all been fixed :D
     
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2017
  13. Stimpy88

    Stimpy88 Gawd

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    As your obviously in the know, could you post the full codec specs and settings Apple is using please?

    I would particularly like to see just how much worse than every other 4K HDR, Dolby Vision streaming service it is?
     
  14. defaultluser

    defaultluser [H]ardForum Junkie

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    I have no clue. You know Apple, heavy on the sales pitch, light on details.

    I would assume h.265 just like everyone else? But beyond that?
     
  15. Yaka

    Yaka Limp Gawd

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    peh movies, im more intrested in ThatGameCompanys new game SKY thats coming out only on ios
     
  16. Iratus

    Iratus Gawd

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    I like the idea of ripping them, the reality is I don't have the commitment that I did in my younger days. No way I will dedicate the time to it. I'd be more likely to set up newsgroups and download them, but then quality and availability is variable.

    I did rip my CD's years ago, having it all automatically process using 2 drives and the only physical act to eject for the next disk. Still took weeks. It's a shame Amazon don't have a digitisation machine like snowball lol
     
  17. defaultluser

    defaultluser [H]ardForum Junkie

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    Hey, it's your call. DVDFab will rip and encode the movie with a single press of a button, but will take a big longer than 30 minutes apiece. You don't have to put as much effort into organization, since there's just a single file produced for each movie. Unlike an album, which produces 10 or more.

    I just do my own encodes using Handbrake because I'm a control freak :D
     
  18. RangerXML

    RangerXML [H]ardness Supreme

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    TL;DR Apple looks at Google and kicks them in the balls.

    I mean this is really what you call a game changer, I'd really like to know the details considering my extensive iTunes movie library, but there is not real info yet.
     
  19. Dirty Butler

    Dirty Butler Limp Gawd

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    Oh nice Dolby Vision, may just pick one up, especially if all their 4K movies support it.
     
  20. steakman1971

    steakman1971 [H]ard|Gawd

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    I have an Apple TV on one of my TV's. I HATE the fricking remote. I think its too small, its easy to accidentally swipe, and seems to always get lost in the cushions when my family uses it.
    At least they aren't gouging for content. I would not have been surprised to see them asking for another buck or two for 4k vs HD.
     
  21. bigdogchris

    bigdogchris Wii was a Novelty

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    A+ for Apple. Hopefully this forces the industry from overcharging for 4k content.
     
  22. Twisted Kidney

    Twisted Kidney 2[H]4U

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    Can you imagine the sound a studio exec made when Apple told him they were going to give away upgraded editions of content?
     
  23. trparky

    trparky Limp Gawd

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    Yeah, it was the sound of them shitting a brick.
     
  24. defaultluser

    defaultluser [H]ardForum Junkie

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    Except this brick actually has to be re-mastered.

    I know a lot of you like to pretend that this is free and easy, but just look at most of the shitty Blu-Rays of older movies out there. It takes time and money to resuscitate the original movie out of dust and noise and blur. Most are lucky if you get 720p of REAL RESOLUTION after you reduce the blur and apply noise reduction.

    You know how much money they spend storing movies? Most have yet to be digitized, an when they are it's not an easy process. And even if your movie in question has already been digitized, it was probably done at 2k (See Star Wars 4-6).

    So you want your 4k remaster for free? I can tell you exactly which orifices the MPAA will tell you to go fuck yourselves in, and in which order :D

    But Apple will pretend they're fighting the good fight for you to get free press, while they will ultimately sign the same deal everyone else will. BECAUSE GONE ARE THE DAYS OF SUPER STEVE CORNERING THE MARKET ON MUSIC.
     
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2017
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  25. RayderR6

    RayderR6 [H]Lite

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    defaultluser sees the forest through the trees.
     
  26. Exavior

    Exavior [H]ardForum Junkie

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    This had already been the case with Ultra Violet. Any movie that you purchased as Blu-ray / HD quality was upgraded to UHD when those started to come out. I had about 15 movies get upgraded to UHD that way for free. So basically like normal they are copying what somebody else did and trying to make it sound like they thought it up.
     
  27. M76

    M76 [H]ardness Supreme

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    And that's why drm only affects legitimate customers. They can beg for all I care until they stop holding a gun to the head of customers I won't be that customer.
     
  28. M76

    M76 [H]ardness Supreme

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    Of course it costs money to re-master something. This is a business decision, who are you more likely to buy movies from? The one who gives you the movie and sends you your merry way, or the one who will upgrade you if a better version of the same movie becomes available? Even logistically it's easier to keep only the best version of a movie online instead of keeping old worse masters up as well.
     
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  29. RayderR6

    RayderR6 [H]Lite

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    No streaming, no matter how good your connection is going to outperform the media on a bluray disc, period. Personally, I can't wait when everyone (but me and some others) have all their collections in the cloud (or wherever) with access only via online and then all the connection prices get jacked up big time, it will happen. You're locking your media in a vault and you'll have to keep paying someone to open it and watch.
     
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  30. Rahh

    Rahh Gawd

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    How many are there that actually have all their movies purchased and on iTunes?
     
  31. Domingo

    Domingo [H]ardForum Junkie

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    Did they ever stat implementing surround sound for iTunes movies? I haven't rented one in forever but they all used to just be straight-up 2-channel stereo. I'd rather have 1080p/5.1 than 4K/2.1 but ideally I'd want 4K/5.1.
     
  32. Vildayyan2003

    Vildayyan2003 Gawd

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    Ayup, I love my UltraViolet collection on VUDU. Roku 4k HDR is where it's at.
     
  33. Twisted Kidney

    Twisted Kidney 2[H]4U

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    I must have missed my minimum Apple-hate quota in my post I'll try to cosy up to the cult now. Apple isn't protecting consumers, they're increasing the value of their service. Apple told these content producers that Apple has more control over the Apple store than the Movie Studios do. That is truly foreign territory for an industry that expects complete and eternal control of all stages of the retail chain. Apple doing this is an early salvo in the battle for the digital market place, Studios have spent so much time trying to destroy the internet that they can't catch up, so they try to rule a market they hate the only way they know how, they take their ball and go home. That's their choice, they suffer for it. The days of seeing four, or even five thousand percent returns on twenty year movie investments are gone.

    I know some of you like to pretend that these are mystical, arcane processes that only the greatest of super-genius super-men can engage in. Processes undertaken by devoted artisans toiling for months, months of 20 hour days lovingly going through film with a razor blade and cleaning solution, their backs stooped, their eyes failing. However, do you know why there are (on average) six different release editions of movies?

    Because the cost on average per unit sold is less than one dollar (including media and packaging) the last I read. Being gouged is never good for consumers.

    I'll let you in on another super-duper secret: If you buy a movie from the Apple store, it's already digitised.

    If you want to sell a digital movie you have to digitise it, yet somehow the very idea that a film studio having to pay the cost of doing business is a terrible burden and shame on Apple for fighting for its own service in the face of these great humanitarian institutions?

    Sure, pull the other leg next time.

    I get the importance this sycophantic hatred of Apple, but give it a rest. A group of companies that shamelessly collude for the sake of price fixing going to war with a company that sits on the fattest of monopolies is good for consumers. Apple just out monopolied them for now.
     
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  34. defaultluser

    defaultluser [H]ardForum Junkie

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    And yet, the movie studios will still charge whatever they want. The only case Apple will be able to charge less is if they take a loss.

    Have you ever known Apple to take a loss on a product offered for sale on their site at launch? Their media is often more expensive than Amazon, and we all know the margins they enjoy on hardware.

    I'm just saying this "fighting for the consumer" is most likely just marketing fluff, just like all their previous promises made for the Apple TV (premiere games platform, and Apple-supplied streaming services). Neither of which have really happened yet.

    I'll believe this one when I see universal $20 4k movies on their site, with a wide selection.
     
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2017
  35. VirtualMirage

    VirtualMirage Limp Gawd

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    Yes, for quite a while now. I've had an Apple TV 3 and Apple TV 4 and an iTunes library of a few hundred movies. If the movie/show was available in surround sound, you are going to get it. It's usually when you are downloading to an iPhone or iPad or sharing the feed via mirroring that stereo becomes the audio output.

    The Apple TV 3 supported up to Dolby Digital 5.1 (AC-3) while the Apple TV 4 and 5 support up to Dolby Digital Plus 7.1 (E-AC-3). There is no DTS option. Many of the movies and shows come with multiple audio tracks, usually AC-3/E-AC-3 and AAC (or HE-AAC). AC3 and E-AC3 are for surround sound. When you are using your iPhone or iPad or mirroring from those devices, it is most likely using AAC (which is stereo).
     
  36. B00nie

    B00nie [H]ardness Supreme

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    Can you make the font a bit bigger? We are not yet sure if you're a zealot or not.
     
  37. Twisted Kidney

    Twisted Kidney 2[H]4U

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    Honestly, I think Apple's monopoly will crumble before that happens. Apple is too aggressive with their closed environment for their tactics to last forever.

    iTunes was the best thing to ever happen to Spotify, the same will happen with movies.

    Studios are going to end up taking a profit hit in the digital space, they can't avoid it. The environment is too competitive. Streaming services still give me the willies but I have this feeling that they may be the future of the motion picture industry as well.

    That's coming from someone who has his internet delivered on the back of a tortoise once a week, I can't stream shit.
     
  38. oldmanbal

    oldmanbal Gawd

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    Are their bandwidth concerns for streaming 4k content through appletv?