Apple will remotely install software to scan all US phones for child sex abuse images

michalrz

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Because snuff films are not a massive issue. Pedophilia and pederasts take and share photos like this constantly. It's a massive issue. Considering the way this is being done via a hash database on iCloud, I honestly don't see the problem.
Hashing collisions for one.
 

DukenukemX

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The title of this thread is misleading as Apple can't install software on ALL phones. It can only do it on all Apple devices, which anyone buying an Apple product to begin with has already made a mistake. You knew what you were getting yourself into. Also, if you believe this is to stop pedophiles then I got bridge I can sell to you.
 

Mchart

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Hashing collisions for one.
Industry standard SHA-256, collisions are basically impossible. Who knows what they are using for this, but they might be using even higher, and they might be uses multiple different types of rounds as well.
 
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Mchart

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The title of this thread is misleading as Apple can't install software on ALL phones. It can only do it on all Apple devices, which anyone buying an Apple product to begin with has already made a mistake. You knew what you were getting yourself into. Also, if you believe this is to stop pedophiles then I got bridge I can sell to you.
What makes you think every cloud service provider isn't doing this already, anyways, for all sorts of stuff? This is just Apple openly announcing it.
 

Mchart

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FYI, the scan happens when you have iCloud photo storage enabled. It's not scanning until that process happens. So if you really care about your security, you can disable iCloud, as you should have done anyways if you're worried about something like this. Although I don't know why you would.
 

Zarathustra[H]

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What makes you think every cloud service provider isn't doing this already, anyways, for all sorts of stuff? This is just Apple openly announcing it.

You can opt out of cloud services. I always do on every mobile device I own. I disable uploading anything to their servers in every system setting and/or app that supports it.

The difference is that Apple seems to be suggesting that they will be remote pushing an app to your local device which will monitor it. Either that or theyhave been misquoted by journalists who don't understand the distinction.
 

Nobu

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FYI, the scan happens when you have iCloud photo storage enabled. It's not scanning until that process happens. So if you really care about your security, you can disable iCloud, as you should have done anyways if you're worried about something like this. Although I don't know why you would.

False positives, or malicious intent from someone who has access to your device and the ability to get past whatever security you have enabled (if you have any enabled), etc.

I'm not worried about that myself, but anyone who isn't savvy or is careless with their phone should be.
 

Mchart

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You can opt out of cloud services. I always do on every mobile device I own. I disable uploading anything to their servers in every system setting and/or app that supports it.

The difference is that Apple seems to be suggesting that they will be remote pushing an app to your local device which will monitor it. Either that or theyhave been misquoted by journalists who don't understand the distinction.
Most of what i've heard is incorrect on the facts. First, it's something being pushed with iOS 15, not some rogue-app that is being installed. That literally makes no sense, as Apple never pushes features like that anyways. Secondly, read the article below for more details. It's more of an iCloud service related.

https://www.macrumors.com/2021/08/05/apple-csam-detection-disabled-icloud-photos/
 
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Mchart

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False positives, or malicious intent from someone who has access to your device and the ability to get past whatever security you have enabled (if you have any enabled), etc.

I'm not worried about that myself, but anyone who isn't savvy or is careless with their phone should be.
Yes, if someone steals your computer and/or phone, there is all sorts of bad shit they can do if they can unlock it. This doesn't change that.
 

DukenukemX

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What makes you think every cloud service provider isn't doing this already, anyways, for all sorts of stuff? This is just Apple openly announcing it.
I have a question for you Apple supporters which is why do you defend Apple by pointing out other shitty companies doing the same thing? Like this somehow makes Apple look less as a scumbag somehow. It doesn't. Also, what makes you think I'm in favor of cloud services in general? It's literally someone else's computer that you've decided to give your data to. If you use cloud services and Apple products then you made two mistakes. No, that's not a double negative that equals a positive. That's a double negative that creates more negative.

wvzab3xcoutaa9ijaske.jpg
 

Nobu

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Yes, if someone steals your computer and/or phone, there is all sorts of bad shit they can do if they can unlock it. This doesn't change that.

It does. If they put child porn on your phone, then you get in trouble, because Apple will report it. They don't have to navigate to some fbi controlled website or even report you.
 

Mchart

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I have a question for you Apple supporters which is why do you defend Apple by pointing out other shitty companies doing the same thing? Like this somehow makes Apple look less as a scumbag somehow. It doesn't. Also, what makes you think I'm in favor of cloud services in general? It's literally someone else's computer that you've decided to give your data to. If you use cloud services and Apple products then you made two mistakes. No, that's not a double negative that equals a positive. That's a double negative that creates more negative.

View attachment 382401
And you don't have to use iCloud, so what's your point?
 

Mchart

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It does. If they put child porn on your phone, then you get in trouble, because Apple will report it. They don't have to navigate to some fbi controlled website or even report you.
And someone could steal your phone, and make death threats to a member of congress using it. You think that is any different? I don't need this new Apple child porn detection thing to get the FBI/Secret Service on your ass. I could just as easily do that a million different ways right now anyways if I have access to your unlocked phone.
 

DukenukemX

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And you don't have to use iCloud, so what's your point?
No, what's your point? Seriously, what's your point? Apple is doing something they shouldn't do in the name of catching pedophiles. They could say "criminals" but a lot of people are criminals nowadays because laws are so fucked up that if Apple used your data to give to law enforcement we would see a majority of Apple users arrested. So instead Apple is spinning this to catch "child sex abusers". What Apple is doing is setting this up to sell data to law enforcement because that's the new money grab right now. Like most Apple users, they will excuse Apple because the means justify the ends. Never mind that all your photos are about to run through an algorithm to see who's got naked photos of kids.
 

Nobu

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If you truly believe that, you live in a fantasy world.
Okay, so a company reporting you for something which may have been planted by someone else is the same as someone threatening a congressman using your phone? I think I'm not the one in the fantasy world...

I can prove that someone else used my phone to call or text a congressman, I may not be able to prove someone else put child porn on my phone, depending on how they did it.
 

Gavv

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If they are reading hashes or anything what’s to stop Apple from stealing your intellectual property while they are there?

Dare to ask who these people are and their qualifications for such a job?

Seems like this will end up in the courts one way or the other.
 

Mchart

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Okay, so a company reporting you for something which may have been planted by someone else is the same as someone threatening a congressman using your phone? I think I'm not the one in the fantasy world...

I can prove that someone else used my phone to call or text a congressman, I may not be able to prove someone else put child porn on my phone, depending on how they did it.
Yeah, I just don't agree with you there. If you can prove someone used ~th methods to have LEO's raining down on using your unlocked phone, that is no different from proving what you're claiming here. Someone who doesn't like you doesn't need to wait for you to start using iOS15 to get away with swatting you. This is just new method 1^~ of doing it.
 

D-EJ915

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To the crowd that say, if you don't have anything to hide - just wait until you are falsely accused of something due to a technical glitch or something is used against you from your phone in a completely unrelated accusation.

We are living in dangerous times.
I mean not even that, I've ran into someone before where their insecure apple account got hacked by somebody over in asia and had a bunch of that person's pictures show up into their icloud. They were like what the hell pictures are these? The person only did it to download apps they couldn't I am guessing since there were random app purchases lol.
 

emphy

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I am super conflicted about this, it does open up some scary possibilities if Apple later decides to abuse this tech.
But I mean their pedo's so, F-em?
But also I'm in Canada so it doesn't apply, and I'm not a pedo so.... It doesn't apply to me, but who's saying later Apple doesn't deploy something that does apply to me, but then again I have a hard time imagining what I am doing that would be considered bad.
So really it comes down to scope and how that scope gets defined, but at least they are announcing that they are doing this and not just sneaking it in and only telling people after the fact, so yay for disclosure?

This is a bad idea for the same reasons that one doesn't put a strong laxative in drinking water to hinder criminals.

Asides from that, the technology has implications far beyond catching suspects. More devices (most recently, the newest phone from google) are getting dedicated so-called ai processing integrated in their hardware, which means that, potentially, every currently online big-data tracking abuse will be implemented locally. This is merely a first toe in these waters.
 

Verge

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OMG

User devices will download an unreadable database of known CSAM image hashes and will do an on-device comparison to the user's own photos, flagging them for known CSAM material before they're uploaded to iCloud Photos.
As usual ya'll lost your damn mind over absolutely NOTHING of relevance to any non child pervert.
 

Nobu

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Yeah, I just don't agree with you there. If you can prove someone used ~th methods to have LEO's raining down on using your unlocked phone, that is no different from proving what you're claiming here. Someone who doesn't like you doesn't need to wait for you to start using iOS15 to get away with swatting you. This is just new method 1^~ of doing it.
This also doesn't have to be intentional, though. Some dummy could get your phone and start downloading stupid shit to your phone. Yeah, the fbi could get you for that before, but now Apple will definitely report you (or at least lock you down until they decide how to deal with you).

One more way is one more way. It's not the same thing.
 

sfsuphysics

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Wonder if this is in any way the reason why I've seen all the Apple billboards dropping the "We protect your privacy" as the selling point, and now have gone onto showing cats and dogs dressed up funny "shot on an iphone" billboard ads.

Good thing I have an Android phone though, because that photo I took of my wife giving our kid a bath when he was an infant, he's screaming his head off my wife has a happy smile on his face wouldn't surprise me if it somehow got flagged as child abuse, and if it gets flagged I'm sure further scrutiny would be put into looking at it to further classify it, and at that point someone is looking at photos I took with my phone that I did not give permission to (and EULAs do not give anyone permission to invade privacy, doubly so when they change whenever it benefits them). (yes this is hyperbole...it's supposed to be)
 
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False positives, or malicious intent from someone who has access to your device and the ability to get past whatever security you have enabled (if you have any enabled), etc.

I'm not worried about that myself, but anyone who isn't savvy or is careless with their phone should be.




And as Project Veritas has endlessly proven, BigTech Corps are over flowing with individual's with malicious intent galore.
 

Ocellaris

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Meanswhile,
This also doesn't have to be intentional, though. Some dummy could get your phone and start downloading stupid shit to your phone. Yeah, the fbi could get you for that before, but now Apple will definitely report you (or at least lock you down until they decide how to deal with you).

One more way is one more way. It's not the same thing.

So not only does someone have to get your phone, they need to bypass security on it, then download illegal images which ALSO exist in the database of bad photos, but haven’t been scrubbed off the internet. Seems remarkably unlikely.

And even then, most copies of the photos won’t work if there was any manipulation done to them including realizing.
 

Nobu

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Meanswhile,


So not only does someone have to get your phone, they need to bypass security on it, then download illegal images which ALSO exist in the database of bad photos, but haven’t been scrubbed off the internet. Seems remarkably unlikely.

And even then, most copies of the photos won’t work if there was any manipulation done to them including realizing.
When I was a kid, I bypassed windows security, logged into the router, forwarded ports, downloaded pr0ns, and used limewire. Getting someone's phone, bypassing security, and downloading shit is easy.
 

Mchart

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When I was a kid, I bypassed windows security, logged into the router, forwarded ports, downloaded pr0ns, and used limewire. Getting someone's phone, bypassing security, and downloading shit is easy.
Uh, that's the point. You're complaining about this, when you could already DO that. You don't need apple reporting that you've taken a pedo image on your phone and uploaded it to iCloud to get people in trouble for pedo material. The very instant that person visited a known host w/ the child porn, you'd be flagged anyways.

There are already a million snort/zeek/whatever sensors between your phone and the child porn server sending sirens to the FBI if you download child porn onto a phone. If you download child porn that is in this LEO child porn hash database onto any host you own - Your IP has been flagged already by every ISP in that chain already, couple that with the fact that most child porn servers are traditionally watched by LEO for months so they can build a case against every sicko downloading from them, oh, and you can be sure they already cracked said servers and have stolen the private keys for TLS/SSL anyways so encryption is moot.
 
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Lakados

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This is a bad idea for the same reasons that one doesn't put a strong laxative in drinking water to hinder criminals.

Asides from that, the technology has implications far beyond catching suspects. More devices (most recently, the newest phone from google) are getting dedicated so-called ai processing integrated in their hardware, which means that, potentially, every currently online big-data tracking abuse will be implemented locally. This is merely a first toe in these waters.
This is how Skynet forms, the AI sees all the stuff we "incognito" search and decides that we are just too disgusting to let exist.
 

Krenum

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This is how Skynet forms, the AI sees all the stuff we "incognito" search and decides that we are just too disgusting to let exist.
And then creates a machine in the form of a man just to mock us. Sounds like a great movie...
 
D

Deleted member 89018

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Forking fork fork.

I’ve slowly been won over by Apple over the years, and was just about to go all in on their ecosystem. I liked the ease of use. I liked the long support tail of iOS. I liked the constant harping on privacy they were doing. “Oh, we can’t even read your imessages because they’re end to end encrypted” and such and so on.

but this just flies right in the face of it. Why spend all that time billing themselves as a privacy friendly company and then undo all that marketing with an announcement like this?

sure, seems like disabling iCloud photos sidesteps the functionality - for now. But they’ve already been talking about how iOS 15 is going to have a lot of features run fully on-system for devices with A12 and newer processors, so how long until they just have the phone scan everything you put on it and send a nice report up to Apple and/ or the government “just to be safe?”

ugh. Do not like at all. And I just got new iPhones for myself and my wife.
 

GoldenTiger

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It starts with kiddie porn then anything anti-government or anti corporate, anti-Isreali etc. etc.

The Thought Police.
Aye comrade! No wrong think allowed! The Ministry of Truth will send for your arrest.

Papers please.
 
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