Apple Stole My Music. No, Seriously.

Trepidati0n said:
Maybe..maybe not. But blaming a user for something when it is not obvious isn't fair either when that user is PAYING YOU. If you would ask every apple user if they knew about an option where when using itunes and apple music that apple could delete files...the amount of blank stares you would get would be amazing. That is no longer "user error"...because no sane person would EVER make that assumption.
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What we, the ones who use the service, are trying to tell you is that this IS NOT the normal behavior. It makes 0 sense that this would be normal behavior. There are options that could POTENTIONALLY be causing this, but even so those options do not do this for us.

The guy is saying that Apple (through iTunes) deletes user music that Apple does not sell. Does that make any rational sense at all????
 
Damar said:
WinAmp, CDex, and Physical discs are still my method for my music.

Hasn't failed me yet.
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Amen to that, still doing it the old way myself. No Apple stuff on my computer, managing music via folder structure.
 
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westrock2000 said:
What we, the ones who use the service, are trying to tell you is that this IS NOT the normal behavior. It makes 0 sense that this would be normal behavior. There are options that could POTENTIONALLY be causing this, but even so those options do not do this for us.

The guy is saying that Apple (through iTunes) deletes user music that Apple does not sell. Does that make any rational sense at all????
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It has for me. I installed itunes, (> 10 years ago) told it where my music was on my Windows 2003 server (on a read/write share) and it starts building a library (which i assume would be an internal database). Half an hour later, came back and my files were gone. Had to recover it using a shadow copy. I was never prompted to delete my files, and the files weren't moved into any local folder (didn't have enough disk space anyway, thus the server). May have been a bug. Maybe this guy was affected by a bug. But it doesn't matter, there's no good reason for the files to be rearranged when you can just store the metadata in a database and access them in place. Sure, if you bought tracks from the itunes store it makes sense to put them in some kind of artists/album/track heirarchy but itunes would be happy to just take all my original files, change all the tags, imbed photos and rename them so they look completely generic and move them into the new folder structure. And if it misidentified a file, there's no way to go back (say an acoustic version got rename to a normal track, well good luck knowing that happenned). After that, I haven't tried itunes again, except to manage my ipad, and streaming clients meet all my needs except for car integration.
 
i wonder how many times people will be surprised (and get pissed off) about losing their only digital copy before they realize that this "let's just put everything on the cloud!" approach is not the fucking way. sure, it's easy....but only until something goes wrong.
 
xXaNaXx said:
i wonder how many times people will be surprised (and get pissed off) about losing their only digital copy before they realize that this "let's just put everything on the cloud!" approach is not the fucking way. sure, it's easy....but only until something goes wrong.
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Cloud is good until someone screws up and you quickly find out you're too much of a small fish for the company to care. I'm actually a big home automation fan, but i'm doing it without cloud services which is a big pain and really expensive compared to using one of the automation hubs but the last thing i need is a screwup to let someone enter my house. Not to say the cloud doesn't have it's merits but you give up any control in exchange for convenience and frankly extremely low cost for what you're getting. As with all things, you get what you pay for.
 
I hear ya, I did mention a similar issue I had when I started using the program and it was about that long ago. That would only happen if you enabled iTunes to manage everything for you (which was default), but I have not had that happen in probably 7-8 years now though. The ordeal did prompt me to keep backups, which is a good thing.

The problem is that something out of the ordinary happened to this guy or he did something wrong. He gets super duper mad and blogs about it. This website picks it up as news, and because the majority of this forum is blindly against Apple they go and tell their friends about how Apple deleted your shot cause you didn't pay them for it.

A few of us are just trying to help you know the truth and be [H].

Miikun said:
It has for me. I installed itunes, (> 10 years ago) told it where my music was on my Windows 2003 server (on a read/write share) and it starts building a library (which i assume would be an internal database). Half an hour later, came back and my files were gone. Had to recover it using a shadow copy. I was never prompted to delete my files, and the files weren't moved into any local folder (didn't have enough disk space anyway, thus the server). May have been a bug. Maybe this guy was affected by a bug. But it doesn't matter, there's no good reason for the files to be rearranged when you can just store the metadata in a database and access them in place. Sure, if you bought tracks from the itunes store it makes sense to put them in some kind of artists/album/track heirarchy but itunes would be happy to just take all my original files, change all the tags, imbed photos and rename them so they look completely generic and move them into the new folder structure. And if it misidentified a file, there's no way to go back (say an acoustic version got rename to a normal track, well good luck knowing that happenned). After that, I haven't tried itunes again, except to manage my ipad, and streaming clients meet all my needs except for car integration.
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I put my iphone in my LP player. Worked fine otherwise but the display got scratched by the needle.
 
Well it's really a problem with the business model. Apple builds very cool and complex technology for the average Joe (like my parents) so they keep the terminology relatable and unfortunately imprecise. As they put in more complex capabilities they seem to think it requires no explaination and that the application will be smart enough to what's right in every situation, or that everyone uses best practices (from their standpoint). Today it's music libraries, next week they might want to help me by fixing all the addresses in my phone book by matching and adding zip+4 to my addresses or pulling pictures of my contacts from social media.. And it will happen with an OS update and an innocuous prompt "would you like to improve your contacts?". It'll probably get it right 99.5% of the time, god help you if you needed that one address.

Sure we may figure out what happens with iTunes version 20.5, they might fix it in version 21 but something equally innocuous might come up in version 23.

They want to make complexity simple through tight process controls, but there are real limits to this philosophy, and I really haven't seen them budging from this dogmatic approach in a decade. In most of their workflows it's just a yes/no with insufficient help or explanation. And if you don't fit their average user profile, or started on the Apple consumer platform, the risk of something going horribly wrong is significant.
 
Apple screwed me, too. I "lost" about $250 worth of music. That's when I went rogue.
 
Ur_Mom said:
No, Apple Music is not deleting tracks off your hard drive — unless you tell it to

And the rebuttal from someone.

I don't know who to believe anymore! :)
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TechLarry said:
I'm not buying this. I smell user error.
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Apple says a bug in iTunes might be deleting user's libraries


>>>In the statement, Apple acknowledged that an "extremely small" number of customers were having their libraries disappear without their permission. Apple hasn't been able to reproduce the bug itself, but nonetheless it says a patch to iTunes next week should help solve the problem. That's little comfort to those who lost their local music libraries (back up your files, people), but it does serve as confirmation that this isn't expected Apple Music behavior -- the service is not intended to to overwrite your personal music library.
 
rat said:
Apple says a bug in iTunes might be deleting user's libraries


>>>In the statement, Apple acknowledged that an "extremely small" number of customers were having their libraries disappear without their permission. Apple hasn't been able to reproduce the bug itself, but nonetheless it says a patch to iTunes next week should help solve the problem. That's little comfort to those who lost their local music libraries (back up your files, people), but it does serve as confirmation that this isn't expected Apple Music behavior -- the service is not intended to to overwrite your personal music library.
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I like the way they say that they can't reproduce the problem but the patch will fix this very problem that doesn't happen. How do you patch a problem you don't understand?
 
Miikun said:
I like the way they say that they can't reproduce the problem but the patch will fix this very problem that doesn't happen. How do you patch a problem you don't understand?
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Anytime you delete a file you call another function. You put something is THAT function to hopefully catch whatever is happening elsewhere in the project code.
 
Never liked iTunes. Never liked Apple products and the insane prices they demand.

All of my digital music comes from Amazon and Google.
 
westrock2000 said:
Anytime you delete a file you call another function. You put something is THAT function to hopefully catch whatever is happening elsewhere in the project code.
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Well if they can't repro it, all that can do is any time they call a filesystem delete function, block it. Otherwise, all they can really do is log when the oops occurred which is helpful in finding the bug but hardly a solution they're claiming it to be. Sounds like they actually know what's happening but the PR guys are spinning it like they're being proactive.
 
DejaWiz said:
Never liked iTunes. Never liked Apple products and the insane prices they demand.

All of my digital music comes from Amazon and Google.
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I'm actually surprised nobody's trying to use digital distribution channel as a way to get super-hi-bit recordings (24/32bit for a better noise floor and higher sampling rates for those people who claim to have golden ears) since bandwidth is cheap and many audio players already have dacs capable of higher specs. It's not like they have to release new hardware to playback the content (unlike SACD and DVD-A). I actually don't think Itunes is overpriced, but I do find paying that price for a lossy format pretty crazy when the CD is uncompressed. Just offering a higher quality container format would give me a reason to download vs buy CDs. That and if they could embed a playback gain tag into the bitstream, perhaps recording engineers won't be so tempted to mix so close to clipping and give us the dynamic range the format deserves.
 
Miikun said:
I'm actually surprised nobody's trying to use digital distribution channel as a way to get super-hi-bit recordings (24/32bit for a better noise floor and higher sampling rates for those people who claim to have golden ears)
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There are some online outfits that offer hi-rez content. The selection is not very good though. If you like 70's music or Jazz, then you're in luck. Apple could easily transition to this, as AAC Lossless covers the bitrate and sampling rate requirements of anything available right now. Some of the stores offer their music in AIFF, which Apple/iTunes supports, but I'm not sure what bitrate/freq they support (I can only find Redbook specs).

Apple does support "Sound Check" metadata for AAC, which is similar to ReplayGain. It adds a db offset.

What drives me batty is this push for vinyl for "purity", yet these same artists did not offer SACD, nor do they currently off high resolution downloadables. For example Radiohead is putting all their stuff on Vinyl....nothing on hi-rez digital, nothing on SACD. Why??? I'm not a Radiohead fan, but they are supposed to be one of the modern big name high fidelity bands. If you like older music like Journey or Michael Jackson then ya you can get a wide selection of content. But the issue here is that the actual recording machines back then were not as accurate as they are now, plus the master tapes are going on 30-40 years old. It's the guys making music in the last 10-15 years that could actually put out native 24/96+ music.....and they aren't doing it.
 
westrock2000 said:
Apple does support "Sound Check" metadata for AAC, which is similar to ReplayGain. It adds a db offset.

What drives me batty is this push for vinyl for "purity", yet these same artists did not offer SACD, nor do they currently off high resolution downloadables. For example Radiohead is putting all their stuff on Vinyl....nothing on hi-rez digital, nothing on SACD. Why??? I'm not a Radiohead fan, but they are supposed to be one of the modern big name high fidelity bands. If you like older music like Journey or Michael Jackson then ya you can get a wide selection of content. But the issue here is that the actual recording machines back then were not as accurate as they are now, plus the master tapes are going on 30-40 years old. It's the guys making music in the last 10-15 years that could actually put out native 24/96+ music.....and they aren't doing it.
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Well I imagine if any of the newer artists decide to do that, their masters should already be in high res formats, but someone really needs to make a big deal to market it. Like Apple or Amazon pushing how music from their app stores is now better than the rest. I think the whole vinyl trend is just pandering, with dubious audio benefits vs high bit digital. While admittedly I always liked the poster sized sleeeves from laser disks and LPs, most modern LP players don't appear to be built to the quality standards of my parents generation. And vintage gear probably isn't in the best shape electronically.
 
DejaWiz said:
Never liked iTunes. Never liked Apple products and the insane prices they demand.

All of my digital music comes from Amazon and Google.
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I love my iPod Nano. Perfect for taking my music anywhere. Very small, holds a lot, easy to use, easy to change tracks (double click the middle of the volume button), fast. I tried using my phone (Windows Phone) and it lacks the speed and is much larger (hard to take on runs).

I HATE iTunes and I HATE the way Apple manages music. I have a separate folder on my drive just for my iTunes library. I'd love a nice, small, fast MP3 player that I could drag and drop my music on.

The hardware is excellent. The software is extremely lacking. For this tiny MP3 player, I'm not too worried about audio fidelity. CD quality audio is about all I want from it. I'm not plugging in a pair of $600 headphones. I'm using a cheap pair of Sennheiser or my car audio (all stock... :( ). At home, if I want higher quality audio, I'll use a different source.
 
Ur_Mom said:
I love my iPod Nano. Perfect for taking my music anywhere. Very small, holds a lot, easy to use, easy to change tracks (double click the middle of the volume button), fast. I tried using my phone (Windows Phone) and it lacks the speed and is much larger (hard to take on runs).

I HATE iTunes and I HATE the way Apple manages music. I have a separate folder on my drive just for my iTunes library. I'd love a nice, small, fast MP3 player that I could drag and drop my music on.

The hardware is excellent. The software is extremely lacking. For this tiny MP3 player, I'm not too worried about audio fidelity. CD quality audio is about all I want from it. I'm not plugging in a pair of $600 headphones. I'm using a cheap pair of Sennheiser or my car audio (all stock... :( ). At home, if I want higher quality audio, I'll use a different source.
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My wife has an iPod Nano and I'll agree, it is super convenient to tote just about anywhere because of its tiny form factor. But that software...
 
I keep an external harddrive backup of music and movies nothing is permanently tied to Itunes. I aquire all my music through other sources rip it or copy it and store it. Fuck tying the only copy to Itunes. WTF did he not have multiple files of all these rare songs.
 
Ur_Mom said:
I HATE iTunes and I HATE the way Apple manages music. I have a separate folder on my drive just for my iTunes library. I'd love a nice, small, fast MP3 player that I could drag and drop my music on.
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It won't do it on Windows, but on OSX you can drag and drop both ways. You can drag songs to an iOS device, and you can drag songs from iTunes right into a folder (which is nice when copying to a USB stick or something). On Windows you can certainly drag songs from your library directly on to the device.

But, why mess with the hassle of drag and dropping? Drag a song to a playlist (or even better set up a smart playlist), that way everything is just a pointer to the original. Update metadata of the master song, or even replace the song with a better rip and now everything that has that playlist gets updated. You do not have to worry about micro managing. You really should not be manually drag and dropping for a large library, things will get fragmentated.

As far as speed? I see no difference in responsiveness between Foobar2000 and iTunes. And I proudly use both (each for different purposes).

I think if many of you would just give it a legitimate try, you would find that most of your complaints are non-existent. And yes, AAC Lossless is on par with FLAC. I have iTunes on 6 or 7 computers....it's fine. It doesn't not break your RAM or dry out your Megahertz regardless of what websites claim.
 
$10 Moto E + 64GB SD Card + Card Reader + BlackPlayer = Better than any iPod ever made.
 
i dont even know where my ipods are anymore itunes uninstalled pc runs better without apple garbage on it...
 
Ocellaris said:
They were $10 on Black Friday, I still have one unused in the box :eek:
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The point is that that is not a sustainable price. You can't run a business selling a full feature phone for $10. The cost is being absorbed elsewhere. So thus, it's not a valid comparison. You can say something like "I got real lucky because I got item A at a great price so I don't need item B". But you can't say that item B is over priced because you got item A at an unrealistic price. And if someone was selling iPods on eBay for dirt cheap I would say the same thing about making valid comparisons.
 
westrock2000 said:
The point is that that is not a sustainable price. You can't run a business selling a full feature phone for $10. The cost is being absorbed elsewhere. So thus, it's not a valid comparison. You can say something like "I got real lucky because I got item A at a great price so I don't need item B". But you can't say that item B is over priced because you got item A at an unrealistic price. And if someone was selling iPods on eBay for dirt cheap I would say the same thing about making valid comparisons.
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Blah blah blah.

If you really want one, you can still get them on sale for $20 or $30. Nobody is talking about running a business on this model. I'm merely providing that INEXPENSIVE AND USER FRIENDLY options exist and even manage to provide a better experience.
 
Armenius said:
This is why I still buy CDs and digital music directly from the source instead of using a service.
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It'll be a cold day in hell before Amazon Music gets away with this. Apple's still got special protected asshole status.
 
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