Apple M4 Macs: iMac, Mac mini, MacBook Pro

uOpt said:
Apple doesn't do the Kensington lock thing.
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That's just as well, because apparently they're not very useful these days. Thieves can cut them fairly easily or even rip the system out in the right circumstances.
 
Ah. Well, TIL. Never used one myself, just know that they're common on laptops and stuff.
 
1_rick said:
Nothing like a Kensington lock? Weird.

Don't wanna drill holes and bolt them to the desks? :) Don't blame you.
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Yeah I don't see the lock interface on those units, and I don't like having the lab machines on desks, spills happen, dump your Dr Pepper all over a $10 keyboard I don't care, drown the desktop and conversations need to occur.
 
Aurelius said:
That's just as well, because apparently they're not very useful these days. Thieves can cut them fairly easily or even rip the system out in the right circumstances.
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Somebody who really wants to seal something is going to steal it, I just need to thwart the casual, grab and go.
I mean they are MDM managed, they phone home, so if you plug one in else ware we will know, and I have had more than one phone call that goes like this "I know what you took, and I know what you tried to do last night with it, if it finds its way back to the building before the weeks end we can both pretend this never happened and go on our way. If you need a device for home because... reasons, fill out these forms and I will get a device assigned to you on the up and up. Your smarter than this"
 
If I go to the Microcenter that is about 180 miles away, I could save myself just over $200 with the M4 Pro Mac Mini, what do you guys think? This includes the gas that I would use, I would just have to return the one I bought from the Apple Store near me.
 
ManofGod said:
If I go to the Microcenter that is about 180 miles away, I could save myself just over $200 with the M4 Pro Mac Mini, what do you guys think? This includes the gas that I would use, I would just have to return the one I bought from the Apple Store near me.
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With the $200 you'd save, you could upgrade the storage another whole, whopping 256GB!
 
Gigantopithecus said:
With the $200 you'd save, you could upgrade the storage another whole, whopping 256GB!
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Actually, that would be 1TB, up from 512GB, since it is the Pro version. However, I am not going to upgrade any of the components, I just trying to determine if it is worth the trip to save just over $200.
 
ManofGod said:
I just trying to determine if it is worth the trip to save just over $200.
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Well, start off by putting a dollar value on your time, compared to whatever else you might be doing. That should give you an answer. I wouldn't take a day off from work to do that but I might do it on a Saturday, except a Mac wouldn't be of any use to me until Linux runs well on it.
 
1_rick said:
Well, start off by putting a dollar value on your time, compared to whatever else you might be doing. That should give you an answer. I wouldn't take a day off from work to do that but I might do it on a Saturday, except a Mac wouldn't be of any use to me until Linux runs well on it.
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Yeah, I would go after work today if I do so. I would need to skip a gym day and a cigar afterwards but otherwise, I do not have to go to work tomorrow.

Edit: I reached out to Apple and they told me it is possible that price match can be done. I just have to go into the store and ask. If they can, I will do it and if not, I am going on a short trip.
 
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Welp, I have most definitely lost complete interest in the Windows based / Linux based PC side, entirely, on a personal level. On a professional level and informational understanding, I will keep up but, I bought the M4 Pro Mac Mini at Microcenter and literally had less than zero interest in anything else there, where as, in the past, I would have been like a kid in a candy store.
 
ManofGod said:
Welp, I have most definitely lost complete interest in the Windows based / Linux based PC side, entirely, on a personal level. On a professional level and informational understanding, I will keep up but, I bought the M4 Pro Mac Mini at Microcenter and literally had less than zero interest in anything else there, where as, in the past, I would have been like a kid in a candy store.
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It has gotten somewhat boring, I just want to have it turn on and work at this stage. I’ve barely the time to play with the toys I do get, let alone any to spare fighting them.
 
I’d generally recommend buying a Mac direct from Apple. Most people can find a way to get a 10% discount.
 
Mchart said:
I’d generally recommend buying a Mac direct from Apple. Most people can find a way to get a 10% discount.
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I would agree, since I have a Apple store locally. However, saving just over $200 was worth it and if I have issues with it, I can go to the Apple store to get it fixed.
 
Dreamerbydesign said:
It’s one screw. Put your original ssd in, warranty intact. There is nothing major going on here to void a warranty.
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Perhaps I could be wrong but, something tells me it is going to be a bit more difficult to fake out the warranty than that, if the modded SSD did some damage. However, for someone who is doing this, I do not think the warranty matters anyways. ;)
 
ManofGod said:
Perhaps I could be wrong but, something tells me it is going to be a bit more difficult to fake out the warranty than that, if the modded SSD did some damage. However, for someone who is doing this, I do not think the warranty matters anyways. ;)
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Actually I disagree. If done properly, and it’s a proven functioning mod, no voiding will occur. I still have a 2015 mbp with a third party ssd adapter in it, working great. It was once an expensive unicorn to find, now it’s a refined product that you can millions of on amazon.

If it’s quality, you’d be just fine.
 
ManofGod said:
Perhaps I could be wrong but, something tells me it is going to be a bit more difficult to fake out the warranty than that, if the modded SSD did some damage. However, for someone who is doing this, I do not think the warranty matters anyways. ;)
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I doubt Apple could figure it out. I'd also like my warranty despite swapping an SSD, like most PCs. The problem is getting an OS onto the new SSD as Apple doesn't make the process easy.
 
DukenukemX said:
I doubt Apple could figure it out. I'd also like my warranty despite swapping an SSD, like most PCs. The problem is getting an OS onto the new SSD as Apple doesn't make the process easy.
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There’s also the “does the tech care” angle.
If your device is under warranty just play nice and play dumb, “try” to follow their instructions and be as pleasant as you can be. You could have dropped it in a bath tub they will still send you the box to ship it in, and once it’s there as the fix for 99% of the issues is going to require the board to be replaced they don’t bother to really check what caused the issue they just swap the board.
 
pendragon1 said:
perfectly fine it theyre out of warranty, but if not, it voids whatever is remaining. done plenty of lid/screen replacements on all sorts off laptops...
we put apple care on every single teachers macbook and probably 80% use it. it saves us while under the 3 year warranty. then i start swapping them, batteries too.
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According to this Redditer, the Apple Care + failed.
https://www.reddit.com/r/mac/comments/1h0xwn8/beware_of_apple_care/
beware-of-apple-care-v0-zbihqqm80e3e1.jpg
 
I thought it was (I imagine it is) a sarcastic post...

unlimited incidents of accidental damage from handling

I was typing really hard on it or put it too fast in my computer bag will probably not past the smell test.
 
Looks like aftermarket SSD's are a reality now. Lets see if Apple will do a software update that will brick devices with these aftermarket SSD's.
https://www.tomshardware.com/pc-com...ed-ssd-vastly-undercuts-apples-usd2-220-price

"Polysoft Services, a French repair store, launched a Kickstarter campaign to raise funds for developing custom PCBs that users can easily swap in and out at much lower costs than Apple. Luke goes with this concept as he upgrades his Mac Studio from 512GB to a whopping eight TB across two modules, which is expected to retail in the US at $849 (799 Euros). A quick search shows us that Apple is charging $2,400 for a similar upgrade—that's 2.8x more expensive!"
 
DukenukemX said:
Looks like aftermarket SSD's are a reality now. Lets see if Apple will do a software update that will brick devices with these aftermarket SSD's.
https://www.tomshardware.com/pc-com...ed-ssd-vastly-undercuts-apples-usd2-220-price

"Polysoft Services, a French repair store, launched a Kickstarter campaign to raise funds for developing custom PCBs that users can easily swap in and out at much lower costs than Apple. Luke goes with this concept as he upgrades his Mac Studio from 512GB to a whopping eight TB across two modules, which is expected to retail in the US at $849 (799 Euros). A quick search shows us that Apple is charging $2,400 for a similar upgrade—that's 2.8x more expensive!"
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I think you meant to say "Let's see when Apple will do a software update that will brick devices with these aftermarket SSD's."

Though the EU may have something to say about, bunch of commies with their consumer protections.
 
Twisted Kidney said:
I think you meant to say "Let's see when Apple will do a software update that will brick devices with these aftermarket SSD's."
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Probably won't happen for a while, and only after it effects their SSD upgrade sales.
Though the EU may have something to say about, bunch of commies with their consumer protections.
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Don't think the EU cares. The court of public opinion will eventually do more good in this case. The fact that Apple even put a removable drive shows that people weren't happy about the soldered SSD's. I'm sure the poor sales had something to do with it. If the M4 does poorly in sales too, then maybe by M5 we might see an M.2 slot with a proper 2280 in it. It's yet to be seen if the M4 will actually boost Mac sales. I believe the standard 16GB of ram will do more for Apple's sales than any performance benefits the M4 itself brings. If Apple were to put a proper M.2 slot without any strings attached to all their devices, then sales would increase.
 
DukenukemX said:
Probably won't happen for a while, and only after it effects their SSD upgrade sales.

Don't think the EU cares. The court of public opinion will eventually do more good in this case. The fact that Apple even put a removable drive shows that people weren't happy about the soldered SSD's. I'm sure the poor sales had something to do with it. If the M4 does poorly in sales too, then maybe by M5 we might see an M.2 slot with a proper 2280 in it. It's yet to be seen if the M4 will actually boost Mac sales. I believe the standard 16GB of ram will do more for Apple's sales than any performance benefits the M4 itself brings. If Apple were to put a proper M.2 slot without any strings attached to all their devices, then sales would increase.
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The internal SSD isn't a standard NVME because the controller is onboard the SOC, and that is done because the drive is encrypted and unlocked by the secure enclave which is also onboard the SOC. So the internal drive will never be a standard NVME as the separate controller would compromise the security of the encryption & secure enclave. All of Apple's devices are setup this way, and it's an intentional decision.
 
EmerilLIVE said:
The internal SSD isn't a standard NVME because the controller is onboard the SOC, and that is done because the drive is encrypted and unlocked by the secure enclave which is also onboard the SOC.
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How is this different from Bitlocker and VeraCrypt?
So the internal drive will never be a standard NVME as the separate controller would compromise the security of the encryption & secure enclave. All of Apple's devices are setup this way, and it's an intentional decision.
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Obviously intentional, but not the way you think. Do you think Windows and Linux machines are less secure while using standard NVME SSD's?
 
DukenukemX said:
Obviously intentional,
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I also suspect considering how much of the pricing use capacity that it is obviously motivated.

Otherwise you could have a slot for a secure controler with some fancy encryption and a different one for regular data and choose which app write on which drive....

music-podcast-audiobook-netflix predownloaded episode-maps downloaded for the gps, there is a giant amount of the biggest data on a phone that you do not care for a second about encryption that could go on a flash memory card, game obviously zero need for encrytion but could need speed, same for a regular computer.
 
DukenukemX said:
Probably won't happen for a while, and only after it effects their SSD upgrade sales.

Don't think the EU cares. The court of public opinion will eventually do more good in this case. The fact that Apple even put a removable drive shows that people weren't happy about the soldered SSD's. I'm sure the poor sales had something to do with it. If the M4 does poorly in sales too, then maybe by M5 we might see an M.2 slot with a proper 2280 in it. It's yet to be seen if the M4 will actually boost Mac sales. I believe the standard 16GB of ram will do more for Apple's sales than any performance benefits the M4 itself brings. If Apple were to put a proper M.2 slot without any strings attached to all their devices, then sales would increase.
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Part of me sees your complete logic there, because it’s logical.

Then I picture a Magic Mouse, propped up on an angle, useless because it needed to be plugged in. 😉
 
DukenukemX said:
LTT did some testing. Used Cinebench of course, but R23 for some reason. R24 favors Apple and is newer. They did test a game, Shadow of the Tomb Raider which last I checked it' not native to Apple silicon. What's wrong with testing newer games with all these reviewers?


View: https://youtu.be/71jBX5N3wcM?si=cG5ZZ4AumucY1bPy
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only game I've known people to play on mac is FF14 which also isn't arm native.
 
DukenukemX said:
LTT did some testing. Used Cinebench of course, but R23 for some reason. R24 favors Apple and is newer. They did test a game, Shadow of the Tomb Raider which last I checked it' not native to Apple silicon. What's wrong with testing newer games with all these reviewers?


View: https://youtu.be/71jBX5N3wcM?si=cG5ZZ4AumucY1bPy
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Seriously, never mind the benchmarks, just let me see how Death Stranding or even Stray plays on them. LTT does come to the consensus view (great base model, but official upgrades are pricey), at least.

I’d like to see them try the M4 Pro model as well. Not that I’d recommend one for gaming, but it does sit in a rare space.
 
Aurelius said:
Seriously, never mind the benchmarks, just let me see how Death Stranding or even Stray plays on them. LTT does come to the consensus view (great base model, but official upgrades are pricey), at least.

I’d like to see them try the M4 Pro model as well. Not that I’d recommend one for gaming, but it does sit in a rare space.
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That's what LTT's take is, by the time you upgrade the Mini to something you could actually somewhat game on you can build a PC that will humiliate it for less money.
 
Twisted Kidney said:
That's what LTT's take is, by the time you upgrade the Mini to something you could actually somewhat game on you can build a PC that will humiliate it for less money.
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My belief is that the base model M4 Mac Mini is meant to help developers develop software for MacOS. I know a lot of Apple apologists will say that the software they use is already ARM, but we're 4 years into Apple's ARM experiment and it's still 50%. Gaming is far worse with 5.9% being native while the 70.7% is through Resotta2 with 19% reported to not work. Developing software on Mac is not the same as Windows or Linux where you can run both within a VM. You need actual Mac hardware to do it, and this is how Apple plans to correct this problem. Tim Cook and other superiors at Apple must have cringed at the idea of selling this machine for $600. Lets not kid ourselves because this machine is a really good deal, but mostly for developers. Anyone else will be better off upgrading the ram and SSD, which will quickly make it into a bad deal. You're still better off buying this machine if you need a small mini PC. I also don't think the M4 Mac Mini is suddenly going to get developers to develop more software on the Mac either. Apple needs to allow MacOS to run legally in a VM. I say this because you can do it, just gotta find workarounds. It's such a taboo thing that even r/Hackintosh won't let anyone talk about VM's.
 
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