Apple M4 Macs: iMac, Mac mini, MacBook Pro

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Aurelius

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Figured we should have a general tech news thread for these systems so that folks who aren't deep in the Apple ecosystem can share their views (without diving into that "mouse port is on the bottom" thread).

The gist:

iMac M4
- 10-core M4
- 16GB minimum RAM, up to 32GB
- Better 12MP webcam
- USB-C Magic Keyboard/Mouse/Trackpad
- Starts at $1,299

Mac mini M4
- 10-core M4 or 14-core M4 Pro
- 16GB minimum RAM, up to 64GB
- Thunderbolt 5 (4 on the base model)
- Two front USB-C ports!
- Way smaller than the last gen
- Starts at $599 for base M4, $1,399 for M4 Pro

MacBook Pro M4 (still unofficial as I write)
- 10-core M4, 14-core M4 Pro, or M4 Max
- 16GB minimum RAM up to... 128GB?
- Thunderbolt 5, probably
- Likely to start at $1,599 for a 14-inch model

I'm aiming to buy the MacBook Pro as I'm sorely in need of a new computer and want to go mobile. But I'd actually say the Mac mini M4 is the most interesting model of the bunch. It's now closer to the size of one of those Beelink Mini PCs (or those SFF office PCs from Dell/HP/etc.) while likely delivering some serious performance. And hurray for finally addressing things like the minimum RAM and front ports.

I still wouldn't buy any of these if I was more than a casual gamer, but so long as the apps I need run on the Mac (they do)... damn straight. The early benches suggest these are big leaps forward, and that Apple is even pulling ahead of AMD's comparable Ryzen AI chips in some respects (it's definitely ahead of Intel and Qualcomm).
 
Aurelius said:
Figured we should have a general tech news thread for these systems so that folks who aren't deep in the Apple ecosystem can share their views (without diving into that "mouse port is on the bottom" thread).

The gist:

iMac M4
- 10-core M4
- 16GB minimum RAM, up to 32GB
- Better 12MP webcam
- USB-C Magic Keyboard/Mouse/Trackpad
- Starts at $1,299

Mac mini M4
- 10-core M4 or 14-core M4 Pro
- 16GB minimum RAM, up to 64GB
- Thunderbolt 5 (4 on the base model)
- Two front USB-C ports!
- Way smaller than the last gen
- Starts at $599 for base M4, $1,399 for M4 Pro

MacBook Pro M4 (still unofficial as I write)
- 10-core M4, 14-core M4 Pro, or M4 Max
- 16GB minimum RAM up to... 128GB?
- Thunderbolt 5, probably
- Likely to start at $1,599 for a 14-inch model

I'm aiming to buy the MacBook Pro as I'm sorely in need of a new computer and want to go mobile. But I'd actually say the Mac mini M4 is the most interesting model of the bunch. It's now closer to the size of one of those Beelink Mini PCs (or those SFF office PCs from Dell/HP/etc.) while likely delivering some serious performance. And hurray for finally addressing things like the minimum RAM and front ports.

I still wouldn't buy any of these if I was more than a casual gamer, but so long as the apps I need run on the Mac (they do)... damn straight. The early benches suggest these are big leaps forward, and that Apple is even pulling ahead of AMD's comparable Ryzen AI chips in some respects (it's definitely ahead of Intel and Qualcomm).
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Macbooks are the most refined laptops in terms of build quality, trackpad, keyboard, screen quality. Just my opinion...i just can't with macos.
 
1.1.2.3.5... said:
Macbooks are the most refined laptops in terms of build quality, trackpad, keyboard, screen quality. Just my opinion...i just can't with macos.
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I'm comfortable on both Mac and Windows, but (obviously) prefer the Mac. With that said, it's getting to be much easier to find good all-around Windows laptop hardware, like the Zenbook S 14. I also found myself digging the Surface Laptop 7 a lot more than I thought I would during the time I got to try it.
 
D-EJ915 said:
The new pricing on the mac mini isn't too bad considering they have 16GB but apple still charging crazy amounts for storage.
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I was considering a Mac a while back

The cost of upgrading the memory and storage was literally almost the entire cost of the laptop I wound up getting

In other words, I could have nearly bought 2 laptops, each with the same memory and storage as the Mac, for the price of one MacBook

Shit is ridiculous
 
socK said:
I was considering a Mac a while back

The cost of upgrading the memory and storage was literally almost the entire cost of the laptop I wound up getting

In other words, I could have nearly bought 2 laptops, each with the same memory and storage as the Mac, for the price of one MacBook

Shit is ridiculous
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Their astronomical price gouging on storage seems borderline illegal.
 
Unfortunately, and one huge thing keeping me away from the Mac mini is the fact you have to choose the RAM and storage you will be fixed with at the outset. There is no means to upgrade RAM later on if you find you need more, and extra storage requires external devices. While the base price is not bad, you pay an extra $200 to add 256GB storage; an extra $200 to add 8GB of RAM, etc. Things get expensive very quickly to prepare for future use.
 
jardows said:
Unfortunately, and one huge thing keeping me away from the Mac mini is the fact you have to choose the RAM and storage you will be fixed with at the outset. There is no means to upgrade RAM later on if you find you need more, and extra storage requires external devices. While the base price is not bad, you pay an extra $200 to add 256GB storage; an extra $200 to add 8GB of RAM, etc. Things get expensive very quickly to prepare for future use.
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That's apples business model...kinda sucks
 
MacMini must quite the fun device for people that have a good use case for what it do, the entry point make it tempting to port your application to Mac (if you just need to compile and run your small enough application-dependancy,and can get away with the harddrive the price is not bad at all, same if your use as a server fit on the harddrive + external ssd).

Seem like a lot of power for $600 and at least now start at 16GB, making a smaller harddrive a lesser issue, not being used as a cache and needing to be large enough for write longevity alone.

One issue for apple, how many people do things with their M2 that their M2 does not handled very very well. Games making chasing performance among large casual audience easy, as long that new game are worth playing.

There is a lot of poweruser there in sounds, videos and other affair, but I imagine a lot of people will be fine with their m2 for a long time, the low harddrive-memory was probably a good strategy.
 
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LukeTbk said:
MacMini must quite the fun device for people that have a good use case for what it do, the entry point make it tempting to port your application to Mac (if you just need to compile and run your small application, and can get away with the harddrive, it is not bad, same if your use as a server fit on the harddrive + external ssd).

Seem like a lot of power for $600 and at least now start at 16GB.
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Additionally if you have a lot of Apple devices, it can function as a content caching server.
https://support.apple.com/en-ca/guide/mac-help/mchl3b6c3720/mac

The only catch is the unit is not able to span vlans, so you either need to get creative with your network, or you need to have all your managed apple devices on the same vlan.
 
maybe i have missed it, but at this point is there enough critical mass/installed user base for native games? The macmini launch video demoed gaming with Control which launched for PC in 2019. Are devs/apple just not interested? If they were, I would expect a more recent release.
 
jardows said:
Unfortunately, and one huge thing keeping me away from the Mac mini is the fact you have to choose the RAM and storage you will be fixed with at the outset. There is no means to upgrade RAM later on if you find you need more, and extra storage requires external devices. While the base price is not bad, you pay an extra $200 to add 256GB storage; an extra $200 to add 8GB of RAM, etc. Things get expensive very quickly to prepare for future use.
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You can totally upgrade modern Macs storage. You will need to add the M.2 slot though.... How's your soldering skills?

View: https://youtu.be/E3N-z-Y8cuw?si=y10gncP4J7lqVDOz
 
1.1.2.3.5... said:
Wait, off topic, but how would you span vlans for any device!?
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Depends on the OS. In Linux you make sub-interface devices, in Windows it's driver dependent or you play games with NIC Teaming where you make the team interface, then create VLAN sub interfaces off of the team.
 
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1.1.2.3.5... said:
Wait, off topic, but how would you span vlans for any device!?
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Maybe not the correct term on my part? But here's the scenario I and many others face.
Apple uses Bonjour to handle some of the caching instructions, but that exists with a TTL of 0 so it will not send across VLans, if you direct the packet from one to another it will be dropped, to combat this many newer switches offer Bonjour packet forwarding as a thing, but not all do.
If your networking hardware doesn't support Bonjour forwarding (my old ones don't) then you need to configure the virtual NIC's on the Mac, then bind those to the correct VLans, and configure the port the Mac sits on as a tagged trunk, but now you have a caching server accessible on how many different VLans by how many different users, and you have now created an accessible link between them where one may not have existed before.
Which brings in additional security tools such as HPE ClearPass to secure the traffic to and from that caching server.
 
sc5mu93 said:
maybe i have missed it, but at this point is there enough critical mass/installed user base for native games? The macmini launch video demoed gaming with Control which launched for PC in 2019. Are devs/apple just not interested? If they were, I would expect a more recent release.
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Apple is weird on desktop hardware, because it doesn't get sold to gamers, it's not their demographic.
Many gamers may own a Mac, but that is not the device they use for gaming.
Furthermore, the Apple developer registration process for MacOS is a bit of a mess, you have to jump through a lot of hoops which costs time and money, for what rarely amounts to any meaningful amount of sales.
So the hardware may be there, but the market just isn't and won't be until Apple grants the ability to install iOS titles on MacOS, then things will likely take off, but likewise you would think that Apple could leverage the AppleTV box as a gaming console to some degree but that's a whole other thing.
Gaming on Apple will not be a thing until they go full Nintendo and launch some serious first party titles, until then it's essentially limited to Apple Arcade.
 
Lakados said:
Apple is weird on desktop hardware, because it doesn't get sold to gamers, it's not their demographic.
Many gamers may own a Mac, but that is not the device they use for gaming.
Furthermore, the Apple developer registration process for MacOS is a bit of a mess, you have to jump through a lot of hoops which costs time and money, for what rarely amounts to any meaningful amount of sales.
So the hardware may be there, but the market just isn't and won't be until Apple grants the ability to install iOS titles on MacOS, then things will likely take off, but likewise you would think that Apple could leverage the AppleTV box as a gaming console to some degree but that's a whole other thing.
Gaming on Apple will not be a thing until they go full Nintendo and launch some serious first party titles, until then it's essentially limited to Apple Arcade.
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but why do they even bother talking about it. they had a section of macmini launch video showing Control and talking about how great it is on apple silicon. it seriously feels like it is only a marketing checkbox. so weird.
 
sc5mu93 said:
but why do they even bother talking about it. they had a section of macmini launch video showing Control and talking about how great it is on apple silicon. it seriously feels like it is only a marketing checkbox. so weird.
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Right now it’s because Apple finally has computers that can play modern games decently, and some devs are willing to bring over recent games. My question isn’t so much “isn’t Control old?” as much as it is “why not BG3 or other newer games that would also run well?”

Apple does seem to be on a better path for gaming, but it’s still going to be a long road unless it can get devs writing Mac versions en masse.
 
sc5mu93 said:
but why do they even bother talking about it. they had a section of macmini launch video showing Control and talking about how great it is on apple silicon. it seriously feels like it is only a marketing checkbox. so weird.
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Pretty much.
I think they use it because gaming graphics are relatable, anybody can look and see “oh that looks good”, it doesn’t really require a frame of reference. Though if they used Blender or something like that to showcase the GPU then it requires knowledge of what is a good time or a bad time.
 
Lakados said:
Maybe not the correct term on my part? But here's the scenario I and many others face.
Apple uses Bonjour to handle some of the caching instructions, but that exists with a TTL of 0 so it will not send across VLans, if you direct the packet from one to another it will be dropped, to combat this many newer switches offer Bonjour packet forwarding as a thing, but not all do.
If your networking hardware doesn't support Bonjour forwarding (my old ones don't) then you need to configure the virtual NIC's on the Mac, then bind those to the correct VLans, and configure the port the Mac sits on as a tagged trunk, but now you have a caching server accessible on how many different VLans by how many different users, and you have now created an accessible link between them where one may not have existed before.
Which brings in additional security tools such as HPE ClearPass to secure the traffic to and from that caching server.
Click to expand...
That's way too complicated. I just use opnsense and a simple managed switch and a unifi wifi (for wifi vlans). I put all my servers in dmz vlan and all whole network can hit them with no performance issues (that i can see). But my servers are just pis, linux nucs and a NAS.

(edit: i am certainly not a network dude so that's about as far as my knowledge goes. Yes, that's potential security issue I see you point out...guess im willing to accept that).
 
sc5mu93 said:
The macmini launch video demoed gaming with Control which launched for PC in 2019
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The list of games that are both native to mac and well known for their raytracing (if that what the person looked for, sounded like that) could be short.

Some Resident Evil were more recent, Death stranding ? But those are not well known for their RT.

If Assassin creed shadow would have launch this november as planned around the m4, that would have been ideal.
 
1.1.2.3.5... said:
That's way too complicated. I just use opnsense and a simple managed switch and a unifi wifi (for wifi vlans). I put all my servers in dmz vlan and all whole network can hit them with no performance issues (that i can see). But my servers are just pis, linux nucs and a NAS.

(edit: i am certainly not a network dude so that's about as far as my knowledge goes. Yes, that's potential security issue I see you point out...guess im willing to accept that).
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Yeah I only get so much control over what gets to connect to the network. I’m scheduled to replace my firewalls next year and during that time we are implementing yet more vlans and more DMZ’s. It’s gonna be a fun time.

Too many bad people out there doing too many bad things and grumble making my life more difficult.
 
It’s a little excessive, but a Mac Min is fantastic for Handbrake machine. And Subler app/program is great for doing the clean up of the video file after Handbrake. Handbrake encodes super fast on the M chip and never makes a sound.

2.5GB standard NIC would be nice though.
 
The MacBook Pro M4 is official — product page is here.

The M4 Max is unsurprisingly a beast, and I really want to see how that and the M4 Pro stack up against Intel Arrow Lake and AMD's Ryzen AI 300 in real life. But I'd say the real deal for most people will be the entry M4, since you finally get 16GB of RAM and three Thunderbolt ports on top of what the M4 provides.
 
What is a bit special here, is how reasonable the 10GB nic seem to be versus going bigger on the hard drive.

10GB upgrade for $125.00 Canadian, can I get much cheaper than that on PC motherboard today, I do not think so? 10 gb pci-e nic adapter on newegg.ca are not really cheaper than that, and I assume Apple as a good one here.

While going from 256->512 SSD cost $250, the double, same for adding 8GB of memory.

Could be that the 10gb is always kind of there, included and the base price and they just enable it, feeling bad about charging more.
Want people to go to 10 gb, lot of their device having thunderbolt to 10gb Ethernet capacity giving them a edge ?
Target the machine that does not need harddrives but 10gb market aggresively.
 
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Aurelius said:
The MacBook Pro M4 is official — product page is here.

The M4 Max is unsurprisingly a beast, and I really want to see how that and the M4 Pro stack up against Intel Arrow Lake and AMD's Ryzen AI 300 in real life. But I'd say the real deal for most people will be the entry M4, since you finally get 16GB of RAM and three Thunderbolt ports on top of what the M4 provides.
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Any benchmarks of these laptops? Not the leaked Russian one as that isn't confirmed legit. I don't expect Arrow Lake to do well against the M4, but AMD's Ryzen AI 300's is capable. If only reviewers stopped using Geekbench and Cinebench as their only method of testing these products. Run some Baldur's Gate 3 and video encoding tests. I would even avoid Speedometer since it was also originally created by Apple's WebKit team.
 
DukenukemX said:
Any benchmarks of these laptops?
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Do not think embargo is lifted yet, apple number look good for yearly release, they compare to the M2 but comparing with 2 years old product is what the competition also tend to do.

ac-mini-using-wow-benchmark-graph-v0-3ajptj9q0sxd1.png


Maybe with active cooling or larger chips (pro, max) it will be bigger, 40% over 2 generations would be a 18% by gen type of pace, which for yearly release is not bad at all.

Now are real world type of settings are used to get those numbers, are representative Wow is among games, etc..
 
LukeTbk said:
What is a bit special here, is own reasonable the 10GB nic seem to be versus going bigger on the hard drive.

10GB upgrade for $125.00 Canadian, can I get much cheaper than that on PC motherboard today ? 10 gb pci-e nic adapter on newegg.ca are not really cheaper than that, and I assume Apple as a good one here.

While going from 256->512 SSD cost $250, the double, same for adding 8GB of memory.

Could be that the 10gb is always kind of there, included and the base price and they just enable it, feeling bad about charging more.
Want people to go to 10 gb, lot of their device having thunderbolt to 10gb Ethernet capacity giving them a edge ?
Target the machine that does not need harddrives but 10gb market aggresively.
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I don't think the 10Gbps Ethernet is a software unlock; I just think Apple knows that it's never going to be a significant profit generator. SSDs and RAM are how Apple gets a healthy profit margin.

And while I won't say Apple's prices are exactly fair, it is always a bit odd to see people complain about them while simultaneously wondering why major PC vendors' revenues and profits tend to be volatile (Dell and HP had rough third quarters, for example). Yeah, if you charge $100 to go from 16GB to 32GB of RAM, it's going to bite you when memory prices climb and your PC's profit margin evaporates. Not that a company's well-being should really dictate what you buy... just don't think that Apple is acting out of pure greed here.
 
DukenukemX said:
Any benchmarks of these laptops? Not the leaked Russian one as that isn't confirmed legit. I don't expect Arrow Lake to do well against the M4, but AMD's Ryzen AI 300's is capable. If only reviewers stopped using Geekbench and Cinebench as their only method of testing these products. Run some Baldur's Gate 3 and video encoding tests. I would even avoid Speedometer since it was also originally created by Apple's WebKit team.
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Nothing official yet, and probably not until next week (though I anticipate hands-on articles and videos as soon as today).

I agree that some reviewers lean too heavily on synthetic tests. Geekbench/Cinebench/3DMark help, but I want to see at least a general description of how app X or game Y runs on a given system. If you're curious: apparently BG3 runs well at 1080p on the base M3 MacBook Pro, so I don't think that'll be a problem.

One possible clue: CDPR finally said that Cyberpunk 2077 would be coming to the Mac early next year, with ray tracing intact. True, it's technically a game from 2020, but we all know that it only really came into its own once the devs ironed out the bugs (and particularly with 2.0/Phantom Liberty last year). I love the thought of someone buying the MacBook Air M4 next year and getting a machine that can play Cyberpunk better than many gaming desktops could a few years ago.
 
My M2 Max MacBook Pro still has pretty insane performance given the battery life, etc. I likely will upgrade to a M4 Max as it's going to be pretty big.
 
"sub forums are dying"
i wonder why....
all the apple nuts are out, their just eating this crap up. wow, you finally have 16gb as a base, welcome to 2024....
 
Going to see how well these work myself: I've pre-ordered a 14-inch base M4 model, albeit with 24GB of RAM and a 1TB SSD. I was sorely in need of a new computer (my poor late-gen Intel iMac wheezes under its current workload) and wanted to switch to a laptop as it is.

I've used some very recent Intel- and Qualcomm-based laptops, so it'll be interesting to see how this stacks up.
 
zehoo said:
Looks like it's time to upgrade my M1 mini, but I think I'll see how the thermals etc are for the smaller chassis. Paying for their overpriced storage makes me sad.
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Why would you for a stationary computer? As external SSD should be fine on it, no?
 
As soon as I sell my m2 14inch I am going to order a 16inch pro max. These look good
 
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