Apple M2 enters mass production

DukenukemX

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drop point

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I managed to give the M1 a workout with InDesign a few times. And script heavy internet archive pages. It's hard to conceptualize much better.
 

Krazy925

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Hmm M1X then M2 then M2X?

First gen Apple is Russian roulette with long term support.
 

Mega6

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It’s not a shortage if you’ve successfully estimated your sales and booked your manufacturing accordingly.
And have the clout and money to get first dibs, as Apple has had with TSMC for years. There is more at play here.
 

Aurelius

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"sources familiar with the matter" ill wait for official news...
Won't get that until Apple announces the systems themselves, so you'll have to wait a few months. It makes sense, though — Apple will need new silicon to support pro machines (more cores, more RAM, faster GPUs, expanded I/O and the like), and it has to spool up production in advance.

My question: do we get new systems at WWDC, or do we have to wait until the fall? Or something in between? It feels like the April event may have been clearing the runway by introducing the base M1 iMac while giving its larger, higher-end counterpart more time to shine.
 

NIZMOZ

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It’s not a shortage if you’ve successfully estimated your sales and booked your manufacturing accordingly.
Let all the car lots know that, because they haven't been able to get cars in for months due to the shortage. The Tundra Plant in SA is running at less than 50% capacity due to it.
 

Kardonxt

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Let all the car lots know that, because they haven't been able to get cars in for months due to the shortage. The Tundra Plant in SA is running at less than 50% capacity due to it.
This is on the auto industry from my understanding. Their obsession with a "just in time" supply chain led them to cancel a ton of their semiconductor orders when COVID hit. Other companies quickly bought up the newly available fab space. When the auto industry change it's mind they were SOL. They had all the manufacturing capacity they needed and they gave it up.

https://arstechnica.com/cars/2021/0...s-causing-automakers-to-idle-their-factories/
 

Lakados

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Let all the car lots know that, because they haven't been able to get cars in for months due to the shortage. The Tundra Plant in SA is running at less than 50% capacity due to it.
They do know, their obsession with just in time manufacturing has bitten them in the ass once again. They fail to learn from this every time there is a problem because they know they can lobby state representatives and the government will step in to solve their poor planning. Well now the fab plants they need are all in Taiwan, notice it was only when the Auto industry started crying that the government started saying that a lack of local chip manufacturing was a problem. It’s not a coincidence.
 

sharknice

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This is on the auto industry from my understanding. Their obsession with a "just in time" supply chain led them to cancel a ton of their semiconductor orders when COVID hit. Other companies quickly bought up the newly available fab space. When the auto industry change it's mind they were SOL. They had all the manufacturing capacity they needed and they gave it up.

https://arstechnica.com/cars/2021/0...s-causing-automakers-to-idle-their-factories/

This is exactly what happened.
The auto industry thinks they can bully other industries around because they're so big, but when it comes to semiconductors they aren't the big boys and paid the price.
And they pressure governments to fix their mistakes.

They deserve no sympathy.
 

Kardonxt

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The auto industry thinks they can bully other industries....

They deserve no sympathy.
Can confirm. The only industry I have worked with that will agree to a proposal, pay a fraction of the agreed price upon completion, and straight up tell you to sue them when you try to collect the balance.

Burn the whole industry down for all I care.
 

idiomatic

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Its gonna be weird thinking of a tablet with nary but a thunderbolt port and a whopping SoC being a pro machine... but I can see it.
 

rinaldo00

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Can confirm. The only industry I have worked with that will agree to a proposal, pay a fraction of the agreed price upon completion, and straight up tell you to sue them when you try to collect the balance.

Burn the whole industry down for all I care.
How is that possible? Why don't industries that supply stuff to the auto industry demand more money up front or refuse to take new orders from the auto industry?

Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me comes to mind.
 

idiomatic

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How is that possible? Why don't industries that supply stuff to the auto industry demand more money up front or refuse to take new orders from the auto industry?

Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me comes to mind.
Abuse of market power that the government overlooks. They make unsustainable deals with suppliers and when they go bankrupt the make new unsustainable deals with new suppliers. Basically using capital invested in their suppliers to subsidize sub-standard cars.

Government should let them go bankrupt. Fuckers.
 

Aurelius

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Its gonna be weird thinking of a tablet with nary but a thunderbolt port and a whopping SoC being a pro machine... but I can see it.
What amuses me: the iPad Pro is more of a pro machine than the Surface Pro X, the tablet that was supposed to be the showcase for Windows on ARM. Goes to show that it's not about the superficial trappings of professionalism, it's about having the raw power and software to get the job done. Hell, wouldn't be surprised if there are more pro apps for iPadOS than there are for Windows on ARM at this point.
 

Lakados

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What amuses me: the iPad Pro is more of a pro machine than the Surface Pro X, the tablet that was supposed to be the showcase for Windows on ARM. Goes to show that it's not about the superficial trappings of professionalism, it's about having the raw power and software to get the job done. Hell, wouldn't be surprised if there are more pro apps for iPadOS than there are for Windows on ARM at this point.
I was just sitting down with the art department and they want a cart of the new Pro’s. Long story short with some strap on lenses and some Bluetooth microphones, the pro’s can do a better job at filming, recording, and editing, their film projects than the camcorders, expensive mic’s, and Dell Workstations can at a fraction of the price and a greatly increased convenience level.

The iPad Pro’s are impressive beasts especially with 2TB being a storage option there.
 

GiGaBiTe

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Can confirm. The only industry I have worked with that will agree to a proposal, pay a fraction of the agreed price upon completion, and straight up tell you to sue them when you try to collect the balance.

Burn the whole industry down for all I care.

This is why when you work with slimy scum, you engineer any project with you or something only you know or can do as part of the equation, and put it in the contract in a way that's not obvious. That way when they inevitably don't pay up, you remove yourself and watch the whole system collapse in on itself.
 

FrgMstr

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Looks hard to find unless you're willing to spend $4,000+ USD on the report from various analytical firms...
My point is that Apple's share of the TAM is tiny compared to what Intel and AMD are dealing with. Apple is not going to have the problems that impact AMD and Intel simply due to scale and it paying top price to those suppliers.
 

illli

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As intriguing the M1 is, it is highway robbery the amount they charge to upgrade.
Want to go from 8 to 16Gb? $200
Want to go from 256Gb to 512? $200

since everything is soldered onto the motherboard you can't upgrade down the road, so you either pay this exorbitant apple tax now or be forever stuck with how it came out of the box
 

Nobu

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As intriguing the M1 is, it is highway robbery the amount they charge to upgrade.
Want to go from 8 to 16Gb? $200
Want to go from 256Gb to 512? $200

since everything is soldered onto the motherboard you can't upgrade down the road, so you either pay this exorbitant apple tax now or be forever stuck with how it came out of the box
Well, you could use external storage, but yeah stuck with the memory (and the hassle if you want more storage).
 

defaultluser

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As intriguing the M1 is, it is highway robbery the amount they charge to upgrade.
Want to go from 8 to 16Gb? $200
Want to go from 256Gb to 512? $200

since everything is soldered onto the motherboard you can't upgrade down the road, so you either pay this exorbitant apple tax now or be forever stuck with how it came out of the box


"Welcome to Apple, may I take your wallet?"
 

Red Falcon

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As intriguing the M1 is, it is highway robbery the amount they charge to upgrade.
Want to go from 8 to 16Gb? $200
Want to go from 256Gb to 512? $200

since everything is soldered onto the motherboard you can't upgrade down the road, so you either pay this exorbitant apple tax now or be forever stuck with how it came out of the box
While I will agree with the 'being stuck with it' since it is soldered to the motherboard, the prices themselves are no more exorbitant or expensive than any other OEM.
Dell, HP, etc., will all charge the same ridiculous prices for modest upgrades, and not even for top-quality equipment or parts which would demand such prices - Apple is hardly the only one that does this.
 

ChadD

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And have the clout and money to get first dibs, as Apple has had with TSMC for years. There is more at play here.

We also had some silly illegal US sanctions cause a run on fab space for 6 months as well. Huawei ordered 2 years worth of chips for production in a 3 month span before they could no longer order any. They gave their Chinese fab 2 or so years to catch up before they run out of stock.

People forget that a major player (20% market share by some estimates) just paid to put everyone else at TMSC on hold for 3 months at least so they could run 2 years worth of supply. So basically huawei had TMSC fab 50% of the WORLDS yearly smart phone chip supply so they could put them in a warehouse beside their phone factory.

So I would say thank Trump... but lets be honest it wouldn't have mattered much who was in the big office punishing China for daring to compete is part of the master plan. But it did help cause a world wide shortage on everything else. The chinese paid TMSC a metric fuck ton of cash to basically take over every fab line they could get while they could.
 

DukenukemX

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While I will agree with the 'being stuck with it' since it is soldered to the motherboard, the prices themselves are no more exorbitant or expensive than any other OEM.
Dell, HP, etc., will all charge the same ridiculous prices for modest upgrades, and not even for top-quality equipment or parts which would demand such prices - Apple is hardly the only one that does this.
You can also upgrade those computers while you can't on the M1. You can get a cheaper laptop and then upgrade it later for a cheaper price.
 

Red Falcon

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You can also upgrade those computers while you can't on the M1. You can get a cheaper laptop and then upgrade it later for a cheaper price.
This is true, and is a clear fault of modern Apple computer designs - mainly for us, but not so much for them. ;)
 

UnknownSouljer

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You can also upgrade those computers while you can't on the M1. You can get a cheaper laptop and then upgrade it later for a cheaper price.
Cool. And you and everyone else is welcome to continue to buy cheap laptops and upgrade them yourself. Apple doesn't need to cater to you just as much as you don't have to buy a single one of their products. I think it's silly to waste time discussing it. As literally this is all apparent.

But to that end, this chip design is literally like no other. While it could be argued that the SSD should be able to be replaced there are key technologies that no PC has that Mac's have. Things like secure enclave for the SSD. And the RAM is literally a part of the die, as the M1 is an SOC, making it far faster than on any other competing computer. What RAM precisely could be used to upgrade such a machine?

To my knowledge there is no widely available SOC that has these advantages. Those might not be "acceptable reasons to you" but there are very clear benefits to both even if you personally think they're "not worth it". Which is why you will continue to buy PC's, as is your prerogative.
 
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IceCaveMan

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Apple's like, "what silicon sortage?".
Apple years in advance from TSMC, and due to iPhone/iPad purchases they are TSMC's biggest customer. While they aren't impervious to chip shortages, Apple is impacted them less than other players.
 

Armenius

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You can also upgrade those computers while you can't on the M1. You can get a cheaper laptop and then upgrade it later for a cheaper price.
You can buy a similarly configured 13" HP laptop for literally half the price. That is how ridiculous Apple's pricing is. So you're not even compromising in buying something cheaper that you can actually upgrade.
 

Aurelius

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You can buy a similarly configured 13" HP laptop for literally half the price. That is how ridiculous Apple's pricing is. So you're not even compromising in buying something cheaper that you can actually upgrade.

Well, you can't, because the M1 outperforms all Intel chips (and in many ways AMD chips) in its power class. The Mac will have faster storage; it'll have longer real-world battery life; it'll have a better display (on that note: why are Windows PCs so often split between basic 1080p panels and battery-killing 4K touchscreens?). Now, you can argue that Apple could produce a machine with a close-enough experience for less, and that Apple would ideally have some user-upgradable parts, but the "similar hardware for half the price" argument doesn't really hold water.
 

1_rick

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While I will agree with the 'being stuck with it' since it is soldered to the motherboard, the prices themselves are no more exorbitant or expensive than any other OEM.
Dell, HP, etc., will all charge the same ridiculous prices for modest upgrades, and not even for top-quality equipment or parts which would demand such prices - Apple is hardly the only one that does this.
While true, "they're not the only ones to rip their customers off" isn't a compelling defense.
 

Aurelius

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While true, "they're not the only ones to rip their customers off" isn't a compelling defense.
It's not a defense, to be sure.

I just find it strange that people will rail against Apple's policies on various things, like memory upgrades or labor conditions... and then flock to companies that aren't much better or have tradeoffs that make them worse, like shoddy build quality for some models, sub-par tech support or lots of bloatware.
 

1_rick

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It's not a defense, to be sure.

I just find it strange that people will rail against Apple's policies on various things, like memory upgrades or labor conditions... and then flock to companies that aren't much better or have tradeoffs that make them worse, like shoddy build quality for some models, sub-par tech support or lots of bloatware.
I'll blast Dell, for example, for doing this kind of crap, too. My current work box, I ordered with minimal ssd and ram, and then added aftermarket stuff at a big savings. But at least I can do that, because it's not soldered on.
 

Red Falcon

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While true, "they're not the only ones to rip their customers off" isn't a compelling defense.
I was hardly defending them.
It's not a defense, to be sure.

I just find it strange that people will rail against Apple's policies on various things, like memory upgrades or labor conditions... and then flock to companies that aren't much better or have tradeoffs that make them worse, like shoddy build quality for some models, sub-par tech support or lots of bloatware.
Exactly this.
I'll blast Dell, for example, for doing this kind of crap, too. My current work box, I ordered with minimal ssd and ram, and then added aftermarket stuff at a big savings. But at least I can do that, because it's not soldered on.
They do give us the option, which is nice, but it is barely a 'better' option than what Apple does at this point.
Most Apple customers are not looking to upgrade parts after purchasing one of their products, so the majority of their customer-base isn't effected by this.

However, I do think that not allowing the SSD to be replaced on the Mac Mini was a mistake.
The embedded RAM was most likely an SoC design choice, as well as a manufacturing cost savings measure, though it would have been convenient to retain the option to replace or upgrade the RAM as well.
 

MrGuvernment

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You can also upgrade those computers while you can't on the M1. You can get a cheaper laptop and then upgrade it later for a cheaper price.
Not always true, not all Dell / HP systems have replicable parts any more, to get thinner they too solder things in, and have pushed towards only their business lines as being upgradable for a few years now.
 

NIZMOZ

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You can also upgrade those computers while you can't on the M1. You can get a cheaper laptop and then upgrade it later for a cheaper price.
No you can't. Most laptops these days aren't upgradeable unless you look into the gaming side of things.
 

NIZMOZ

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You can buy a similarly configured 13" HP laptop for literally half the price. That is how ridiculous Apple's pricing is. So you're not even compromising in buying something cheaper that you can actually upgrade.
I just priced one out, and they were pretty close in price to me. Please post what you are looking at that is similar spec, and build quality. Because I know for a fact anything cheap from HP/Dell won't be even close to the same build quality as Apple.
 
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