Apple M1 SOC platform discussion

UnknownSouljer

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yeah but now the m1 single thread performance makes ryzen look like shit

and that's a letdown for amd. even more so for intel.
Okay? I'm a 100% Mac user and even I would say: "who cares"? If a computing device doesn't do what you need it to do then it literally doesn't matter if a single specification on it is faster. The M1 could 1000% faster in single core than Ryzen, but if you want to run Windows and play games then it would still be irrelevant.
i wonder what would happen if m1 were a 45w tdp

View attachment 301020
As for "Pro" variants, those will come mostly next year I imagine. The Mac Pro likely will get updated last. The iMac Pro slightly before that. And I'm sure the Macbook Pro 16" and 27" (or whatever size for their Pro machine) a bit before that. I'm guessing a 20-24" iMac will be next but I'm uncertain whether or not it will be running M1 or something faster (they could add more CPU or GPU cores). But even still, it won't matter if none of these machines do what you want them to do.
 

UnknownSouljer

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chithanh

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Microsoft will essentially have to hack the bootloader to get around the M1's secure enclave boot process.
As far as I understand it, it is possible to switch the Apple bootloader to "permissive mode" which allows the user to enroll their own bootloader hashes/keys in the firmware. At least that is how folks plan to run Linux on it. Like Linux, Microsoft will probably have to make changes to the OS or establish a minimal hypervisor which emulates the parts that don't exist in the ARM Macs.

https://www.realworldtech.com/forum/?threadid=196533&curpostid=196580
 

NIZMOZ

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I saw this article too. But its a bit disingenuous. If Apple doesn't actually make a bootcamp client then Microsoft will essentially have to hack the bootloader to get around the M1's secure enclave boot process. But FWIW this gives credence to your rumor - still we're a long way out from seeing what actually happens.
There maybe a way to dual boot it, like you can with Windows. I am just thinking out loud here, but I am sure there will be other ways than bootcamp.
 

somebrains

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I don’t know why there was a disconnect, but this would be a stumbling block to M1 adoption at fleet scale until state is known good: https://www.docker.com/blog/apple-silicon-m1-chips-and-docker/
https://github.com/docker/buildx#building-multi-platform-images

Judging by the threads on GitHub there’s too many people jumping the gun.
Hopefully they are just frustrated with personally owned gear and didn’t convince someone to burn their end of year budget.

8F314DC9-4399-4D06-83DD-9B251BEE97D3.png
 
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xBanzai89

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Has anyone done any C or Java programming on the new Macs yet? Was curious how the IDEs are performing. I am slightly considering getting a mac mini to play around with and use as a option of last resort for my programming courses should my laptop die on me.
 

somebrains

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Has anyone done any C or Java programming on the new Macs yet? Was curious how the IDEs are performing. I am slightly considering getting a mac mini to play around with and use as a option of last resort for my programming courses should my laptop die on me.

Setup a Dev instance using the Cloud9 ide and give it a whirl.
I can see bloggers getting way into this bc I'd fire my build instance off a git or code pipeline hook, then terminate the instance so I'm paying minimal time on it.

Also this is interesting:
 
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theotherphil

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yeah but now the m1 single thread performance makes ryzen look like shit

and that's a letdown for amd. even more so for intel.

i wonder what would happen if m1 were a 45w tdp

View attachment 301020

All of these threads, across forums, trashing M1 are really ageing well 😂

What we need to remember is that the M1 is the entry level, slowest SOC Apple will ever produce for the Mac. Aimed at the general users and encompass the majority of Apple’s sales and they are significantly beating out pretty much every other laptop in performance and battery life in their respective form factors.

The upper end MBP’s, Mac Mini and iMac’s - you know, the ones enthusiasts and professionals will buy will be using a different SOC with higher TDP....likely a 12 core (8 performance, 4 efficiency) with a 16+ core GPU.

Apple stated at WWDC that they are ”developing a family of SOC’s” for the Mac line. During their state of the union video, they stated what they were most excited about was their custom GPU’s. Mark my word, this will be a paradigm shift in performance going forward.

And when those next devices are launched, I fully expect disbelief again from the x86 crowd with quotes such as “I am not buying a computer with a mobile chip”, “I need real world benchmarks, not synthetic”, “I have 75 tabs open in chrome, 15 projects open and encode RAW 8k video which would bring a mobile chip to it’s knees”, “I can’t live without bootcamp for my 1990’s application”. 😂😂

This level of performance is going to save actual professionals so much time that they will have no choice but to switch and developers will be supporting that switch or be left behind.

 
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vegeta535

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I am very quick to bash Apple but their chip is pretty damn impressive. I will still never use a Apple product but respect for the chip.
 

Spun Ducky

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Well i have never owned a mac before but grabbed the m1 mac mini. Besides curiosity i got it so i can expand my mobile dev work to apple.

Software incompatibilities aside it is as reviews claim stupidly snappy. Runs silent all the time and produces nearly no heat.

It pains me to say it but this is the sorta launch it will take to make arm mainstream if it will happen. The real bonus is the amount of commercial apps getting an arm port which should massively grow things like rpi.
 

dvsman

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I just got my M1 AIr (16gb/8coreGPU/1tb) late December and for me it works great.

I'm mostly a spreadsheet jockey with some webstuff on the side (and amateur photographer / artist wannabe) and it works about as well as any of my previous Dell XPSs or Razers. The main thing for me that I noticed right away is the super long battery life combined with full CPU power during that entire time. Unlike my Win PCs / Lappies, there's no sacrificial power save mode (AFAIK) the clicks as soon as you unplug from the wall.

Don't get me wrong, I'm still playing games on my sig rig but for working away from the wall plug or office, the new M1 is a game changer in the laptop space <- and this is from a PC guy typing this on his master-race PC right now.

Who knows, if the game streaming stuff actually becomes a thing, maybe we won't need monster GPUs anymore! Especially if the crypto-mining guys (combined with the scalper asshats that feed them) keep buying up every single goddang CPU/GPU capable of gaming.
 

Jinto

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Just migrated all my stuff from my late 2013 MBP 15 16/512 to the base M1 Air. So far so good. Only issue is that my 34UC88 is only running at 50Hz. Apple is aware of issues with ultrawides so hoping it will be fixed soon. I use my Macs to remote into work and do other basic stuff so haven't noticed any impact from having less RAM.
 

Aurelius

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Well i have never owned a mac before but grabbed the m1 mac mini. Besides curiosity i got it so i can expand my mobile dev work to apple.

Software incompatibilities aside it is as reviews claim stupidly snappy. Runs silent all the time and produces nearly no heat.

It pains me to say it but this is the sorta launch it will take to make arm mainstream if it will happen. The real bonus is the amount of commercial apps getting an arm port which should massively grow things like rpi.
Can't help but think the M1 Mac mini is the dark horse of the mix. It went from a niche computer for a handful of people to a pretty solid desktop if you aren't big on gaming and some pro apps. It's arguably better than many systems in the price class, both in speed (at least responsiveness) as well as quality-of-life aspects like noise and size. In some ways I wish Apple had shipped the Mac mini this summer, as I might have bought instead of an iMac.
 

UnknownSouljer

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Can't help but think the M1 Mac mini is the dark horse of the mix. It went from a niche computer for a handful of people to a pretty solid desktop if you aren't big on gaming and some pro apps. It's arguably better than many systems in the price class, both in speed (at least responsiveness) as well as quality-of-life aspects like noise and size. In some ways I wish Apple had shipped the Mac mini this summer, as I might have bought instead of an iMac.
I think the Mac Mini has been the machine to buy from Apple for those wanting a "cheap" desktop for about the past 2 years. The 2018 Mac Mini can be configured with an 8600k, doesn't throttle, has the option for 64GB of RAM (user upgradeable), and a 10GBe Ethernet Jack. Simply slap on an eGPU and utilize the 4x Thunderbolt 3 ports for expansion and you essentially have a much faster much cheaper 2013 Mac Pro (that was the trashcan model). It's not the cheapest setup, but again compared to the 2013 Mac Pro it's a steal - it will be supported a decent time into the future and even after it has outlived its desktop usefulness will continue to be a good server for some time.

The current M1 Mac Mini unfortunately doesn't allow for eGPU's. It's actually the big reason why I'm hesitant to move to ARM Mac's until they start producing chips with better GPU capabilities. Lack of Windows support hurts somewhat too, but honestly I might just move to a really cheap PC rig (like a 2700x, an inexpensive board, PSU, and 32GB of cheap RAM all used - and just slap my current video card in there for Windows). But that will be a process that will probably take me over a year to transition through.
 

Aurelius

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I think the Mac Mini has been the machine to buy from Apple for those wanting a "cheap" desktop for about the past 2 years. The 2018 Mac Mini can be configured with an 8600k, doesn't throttle, has the option for 64GB of RAM (user upgradeable), and a 10GBe Ethernet Jack. Simply slap on an eGPU and utilize the 4x Thunderbolt 3 ports for expansion and you essentially have a much faster much cheaper 2013 Mac Pro (that was the trashcan model). It's not the cheapest setup, but again compared to the 2013 Mac Pro it's a steal - it will be supported a decent time into the future and even after it has outlived its desktop usefulness will continue to be a good server for some time.

The current M1 Mac Mini unfortunately doesn't allow for eGPU's. It's actually the big reason why I'm hesitant to move to ARM Mac's until they start producing chips with better GPU capabilities. Lack of Windows support hurts somewhat too, but honestly I might just move to a really cheap PC rig (like a 2700x, an inexpensive board, PSU, and 32GB of cheap RAM all used - and just slap my current video card in there for Windows). But that will be a process that will probably take me over a year to transition through.

I do miss the higher-end functionality, although my hunch is that Apple will add at least some of it back when it introduces higher-end ARM chips. Want upgradable RAM and 10Gbps Ethernet? Buy this higher-end Mac mini. A bit like the split between the current 21- and 27-inch iMacs, where you have to buy the higher-end model to install your own RAM sticks (not saying that's great, just how Apple might do it).

The M1 model makes more sense to me as it's truer to what the Mac mini was originally meant to do — it's the cheap headless Mac that introduces you to the ecosystem and gives you a good reason to switch. Even the base Intel Mac mini it replaced seemed more like an easily-swappable pro client than a home computer for someone frustrated with their Windows tower. I just wish Apple could get back to that $499 entry price, but i don't think we're going back to 2005 any time soon.
 
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