Apple India factory of on probation for wanting better food and better conditions

[westrock2000]

“Apple makes so much money partly because they'll do anything to keep production ultra cheap in overseas sweatshops while keeping prices ultra-high compared to their competition”

Does Apple charge ultra high prices compared to their completion? I don’t think many of their products are ultra high priced compared to realistic competition. The only thing that comes to mind is maybe their over the ear headphones. Mostly for not being able to play lossless wirelessly at that price point. But their isn’t lossless Bluetooth, so not just Apples fault.

But most everything else when you take into consideration the build quality, the convenience, the actual performance, they seem very competitive.

 

[Aurelius]

“Apple makes so much money partly because they'll do anything to keep production ultra cheap in overseas sweatshops while keeping prices ultra-high compared to their competition”

Does Apple charge ultra high prices compared to their completion? I don’t think many of their products are ultra high priced compared to realistic competition. The only thing that comes to mind is maybe their over the ear headphones. Mostly for not being able to play lossless wirelessly at that price point. But their isn’t lossless Bluetooth, so not just Apples fault.

But most everything else when you take into consideration the build quality, the convenience, the actual performance, they seem very competitive.

Apple's gross margins are high compared to some tech companies, but not necessarily comparable products. Samsung uses similar margins for Galaxy S and Z flagships, for example.

My gripe is that many Android phone and Windows PC makers also bend over backward to put production into sweatshops... but the Anything But Apple camp pretends they don't, or that Apple is uniquely worse. So they'll use products made in similar conditions, just with lower prices (and often the lower quality/support to match). And they don't even seem to realize that they may be contributing to the problem more than Apple users, since the "race to the bottom" in prices and quality was largely dictated by Android and Windows vendors.

 

[sleepeeg3]

Doing manufacturing in countries where there is a surplus of labor is not a bad thing. It provides more money to their economy, raises their standard of living and consumers in other countries get a cheap phone.

 

[Darunion]

Yes they could make them in the US, but why? Why increase your manufacturing cost?

Also made in the US does not equate better. Plenty of contract manufacturers in the US are complete trash, and some in China are amazing. Honestly I don't care where a product is made as long as it works.

I'll never understand the selective product hate. Pretty sure the markup on girl scout cookies is more than an iphone but yet we don't spend our effort trashing them and boasting about competitors better prices. Maybe some do I dunno. Just gonna sit here with my thin mints and samsung phone and yell at neighborhood kids.

 

[MrGuvernment]

Doing manufacturing in countries where there is a surplus of labor is not a bad thing. It provides more money to their economy, raises their standard of living and consumers in other countries get a cheap phone.

But also due to the level of poverty people get exploited because their systems are so poor and so many are jobless and will literally die doing their jobs to put food on the table, it is exploitation at is worst.

 

[MrCaffeineX]

Yeah the wages are basically nothing compared to the costs of moving everything else to the US. There is a massive, complex supply chain, tons of different parts being put together and all those parts having parts, and all the parts having material that needs to be created and mined. It would take decades and trillions of dollars to bring all of that to the USA. A lot of it regulations would simply make unfeasible.
If it was simply "assembled in the USA" that would be doable. You can ship all the different parts from China and assemble them in the US and slowly work backwards until everything is in the US. But what's the point really?

In theory, the world economy reaches an equilibrium at some point once all of the slave/indentured-servant/low-wage labor supplies have been exhausted. Eventually, workers will demand more equity for their labor, will improve their quality of life, and their standard of living, then price themselves out of the market, which will move to another, cheaper alternative supply. The question has always been how long will it take to run out of more cost-effective places to manufacture? Can humanity as a species survive that long? Can our society maintain this current way of life long enough for this to happen?

 

[sharknice]

But also due to the level of poverty people get exploited because their systems are so poor and so many are jobless and will literally die doing their jobs to put food on the table, it is exploitation at is worst.

Yes, the jobs are crap compared to what's offered in the USA, but they're better than anything in their own country which is why they CHOOSE to work there. They aren't forced to work there, it's mutually beneficial to the people working there and the company. Calling that "exploitation" and acting like it's terrible for the workers who's lives are literally improving because of it is stupid. It improves the very low standard of life in that country and everything else slowly improves and catches up.

 

[Aireoth]

“Apple makes so much money partly because they'll do anything to keep production ultra cheap in overseas sweatshops while keeping prices ultra-high compared to their competition”

Does Apple charge ultra high prices compared to their completion? I don’t think many of their products are ultra high priced compared to realistic competition. The only thing that comes to mind is maybe their over the ear headphones. Mostly for not being able to play lossless wirelessly at that price point. But their isn’t lossless Bluetooth, so not just Apples fault.

But most everything else when you take into consideration the build quality, the convenience, the actual performance, they seem very competitive.

Apple pushed prices high and proved the market will bare it, everyone else followed suit.

 

[Aireoth]

Apple's gross margins are high compared to some tech companies, but not necessarily comparable products. Samsung uses similar margins for Galaxy S and Z flagships, for example.

My gripe is that many Android phone and Windows PC makers also bend over backward to put production into sweatshops... but the Anything But Apple camp pretends they don't, or that Apple is uniquely worse. So they'll use products made in similar conditions, just with lower prices (and often the lower quality/support to match). And they don't even seem to realize that they may be contributing to the problem more than Apple users, since the "race to the bottom" in prices and quality was largely dictated by Android and Windows vendors.

The difference is Apple built their brand on being the morally superior choice, gathered a large following that to this day believe the BS.

Also, you fans are hilarious, still leaping to the defense of the poor underdog Apple at every turn, with zero self awareness that Apple is the largest company and everything you pretend to eschew.

 

[sleepeeg3]

Yes, the jobs are crap compared to what's offered in the USA, but they're better than anything in their own country which is why they CHOOSE to work there. They aren't forced to work there, it's mutually beneficial to the people working there and the company. Calling that "exploitation" and acting like it's terrible for the workers who's lives are literally improving because of it is stupid. It improves the very low standard of life in that country and everything else slowly improves and catches up.

Exactly. Take the word "exploited" out of your vocabulary, MrGuvernment. People have free will. They have a choice.

Look at what that "exploitation" has done to China. GDP is now larger than the US, because their workers gained those coveted manufacturing jobs that used to exist here. If cities are a measure of success, they now have over 100 cities with over 1 million people. Their economy is doing great. Meanwhile, over here we have 7%+ inflation to look forward to, due to money printing for entitlements. US is going in the opposite direction.

Taiwan is another prime example. TMSC now produces 90% of the advanced chips in the world. I know from people who live there TMSC workers work long hours, but they make so much money, they can retire early. Country's standard of living has been rapidly increasing, in spite of all of the interference China has caused for them in relation to trading with other countries.

Hard work pays off, to an extent.

 

[Aurelius]

The difference is Apple built their brand on being the morally superior choice, gathered a large following that to this day believe the BS.

Also, you fans are hilarious, still leaping to the defense of the poor underdog Apple at every turn, with zero self awareness that Apple is the largest company and everything you pretend to eschew.

"But I know the brands I prefer are at least as bad" isn't exactly a strong argument. If anything, it says you consciously chose to support bad practices; someone who's naive about Apple can at least claim ignorance. Me, I know what Apple does; I just think it's better (or in some cases, the least lousy) in areas that matter, like the environment, privacy and after-sale support.

Please don't make assumptions based on your stereotypes of what Apple users are like. I know Apple isn't an underdog. I know it still has work to do improving labor conditions at its contractors, and striking a better balance between vertical integration and fostering competition. I'm just than a little tired of people portraying Apple as evil incarnate while acting as if the companies they prefer are bastions of integrity. You can choose Samsung, Google, Dell, HP or whoever else for pragmatic reasons like a more flexible OS, wider hardware variety or similar factors; but you're going to have a hard time claiming the moral high ground in many areas, including for labor conditions.

 

[Aireoth]

"But I know the brands I prefer are at least as bad" isn't exactly a strong argument. If anything, it says you consciously chose to support bad practices; someone who's naive about Apple can at least claim ignorance. Me, I know what Apple does; I just think it's better (or in some cases, the least lousy) in areas that matter, like the environment, privacy and after-sale support.

Please don't make assumptions based on your stereotypes of what Apple users are like. I know Apple isn't an underdog. I know it still has work to do improving labor conditions at its contractors, and striking a better balance between vertical integration and fostering competition. I'm just than a little tired of people portraying Apple as evil incarnate while acting as if the companies they prefer are bastions of integrity. You can choose Samsung, Google, Dell, HP or whoever else for pragmatic reasons like a more flexible OS, wider hardware variety or similar factors; but you're going to have a hard time claiming the moral high ground in many areas, including for labor conditions.

Hahah, the richest company in america is just paying lip service to improving conditions.

There is only one person going around claiming the moral high ground, and it isn't me.

You cannot claim a company that embraces and pioneers new ways of planned obsolesence to keep people buying the next new device while throwing away the last to rot is an enviromentally friendly alternative.

The problem is you know it, which is why your tired of it, no one else is saying that XYZ company is morally better than apple, thats all you. Most of us are pragmatic.

As far as stereotypes, stop fitting them.

 

[westrock2000]

I work and live in America. Am an American. 2 year degree. Make 6 figures. Apple is one of our primary customers. I don’t have much to complain about.

Would China citizens be better off without out sourcing? If the rest of the world had not sent it’s jobs to China, it’s citizens would be living better lives than they are today?

 

[SecretStash]

I work and live in America. Am an American. 2 year degree. Make 6 figures. Apple is one of our primary customers. I don’t have much to complain about.

Would China citizens be better off without out sourcing? If the rest of the world had not sent it’s jobs to China, it’s citizens would be living better lives than they are today?

I'll bite and say Maybe. The communist government would be less capable of micromanaging every part of their lives. Hong Kong would be better off. No potential bloody war over Taiwan. People farming instead of working as slaves in tech sweatshops with their bed under their work desk as someone else works when you sleep. Less smog in the air. Quality of life might go up in some respects but being on the dumpster end of commercialism also has its problems

Wishful thinking... More likely for a regime change


I know it's up for debate. Even if I'm wrong, gradual tech advancement may have been better for them.