Apple India factory of on probation for wanting better food and better conditions

[DukenukemX]

Should I start saying that this isn't an Apple unique issue before other people do? That other companies use Foxconn to make their products? That other manufacturers are just as evil. No need for suicide nets this time. Apple makes so much money partly because they'll do anything to keep production ultra cheap in overseas sweatshops while keeping prices ultra-high compared to their competition.

"Protests erupted in the factory last week after hundreds of women who work at the plant and live in one of the hostels had to be treated for food poisoning and more than 100 were hospitalized, according to earlier local media reports."

“We found that some of the remote dormitory accommodations and dining rooms being used for employees do not meet our requirements and we are working with the supplier to ensure a comprehensive set of corrective actions are rapidly implemented,” the spokesperson said.

https://techcrunch.com/2021/12/29/apple-foxconn-india/

 

[THRESHIN]

It's very true, and none of these companies care. Going a bit more big picture here, this exists because as a society we encouraged it. any dollar store is a shining example. As a society, we wanted something for nothing. The cost of that was very high. We gave up manufacturing to Asia, we threw away human rights (but hey at least we can't see it) and we didn't give a shit about the environment. And by environment I'm not just talking about CO2. Think these manufacturers over there care what they dump in the water?

And then just for fun, we offload the blame to the companies that give us what we ask for. Sure they're greedy crooks too.

Hope it was worth it.

 

[MrGuvernment]

Yup, bingo, on both.

People then cry "made in the USA!" Ya, like you really are going to be willing to pay $3k-$4k now for your shiny new Iphone / Google / Samsung phone...

 

[DukenukemX]

Yup, bingo, on both.

People then cry "made in the USA!" Ya, like you really are going to be willing to pay $3k-$4k now for your shiny new Iphone / Google / Samsung phone...

You can make an iPhone in USA and not cost any extra over it being made in China or India. Apple is worth trillions of dollars so they can afford to do it, but then investors wouldn't be happy if Apple isn't making an absurb amount of money as they do now. Not that we Americans should want manufacturing jobs because they suck. From the sounds of it these people live and eat at the factory. Sounds like something out of SCP 001 The Factory.

 

[MrGuvernment]

You can make an iPhone in USA and not cost any extra over it being made in China or India. Apple is worth trillions of dollars so they can afford to do it, but then investors wouldn't be happy if Apple isn't making an absurb amount of money as they do now. Not that we Americans should want manufacturing jobs because they suck. From the sounds of it these people live and eat at the factory. Sounds like something out of SCP 001 The Factory.

Sure, "could" but would never happen for the very reasons you just noted, as to why the phone would cost 3-4x more. Also, factory jobs are a job either way and plenty of unemployed people in North America who would happily take those min wage paying jobs.

 

[sharknice]

You can make an iPhone in USA and not cost any extra over it being made in China or India. Apple is worth trillions of dollars so they can afford to do it, but then investors wouldn't be happy if Apple isn't making an absurb amount of money as they do now. Not that we Americans should want manufacturing jobs because they suck. From the sounds of it these people live and eat at the factory. Sounds like something out of SCP 001 The Factory.

lol no they can't

 

[OFaceSIG]

Yup, bingo, on both.

People then cry "made in the USA!" Ya, like you really are going to be willing to pay $3k-$4k now for your shiny new Iphone / Google / Samsung phone...

I think the difference is, Apple has cracked the code. You usually get either really high margins, and no volume. Like lets say Lambo. Or you get high volume but no margins, like Walmart. Apple has cracked the code. Everybody and their mama has an Iphone and they make a bundle on each device. They could EASILY make iPhones in the US and still make good money per phone. Google, Samsung, Oneplus and the like could not.

Apple chooses to be a crap, greedy, corporation. When people think of all the "greedy" companies of the 90s, that's Apple. 100%. Jobs would have had it no other way.

 

[Aurelius]

Yup, bingo, on both.

People then cry "made in the USA!" Ya, like you really are going to be willing to pay $3k-$4k now for your shiny new Iphone / Google / Samsung phone...

The issue isn't necessarily price, although it might cost more. Rather, it's flexibility.

If a Chinese (or Indian, or Vietnamese, or...) contractor for Apple/Dell/Google/Microsoft gets an order for a surge of new devices, that contractor can bring on thousands of properly trained workers in a couple of weeks. Many of the partner companies and raw resource suppliers are also in the same country. In the US, meanwhile, it could take months to onboard even a fraction of those workers; many people are either over- or underqualified. There are some local resources and suppliers, but a lot of it has to be shipped from overseas. Automation is helping to address some of those capacity issues, but it remains true that US manufacturing isn't as nimble as some of its foreign equivalents.

With that said: if companies are going to keep relying on overseas production, they do need to step things up. Apple has been taking steps toward that, but there's still a long way to go.

 

[Aurelius]

I think the difference is, Apple has cracked the code. You usually get either really high margins, and no volume. Like lets say Lambo. Or you get high volume but no margins, like Walmart. Apple has cracked the code. Everybody and their mama has an Iphone and they make a bundle on each device. They could EASILY make iPhones in the US and still make good money per phone. Google, Samsung, Oneplus and the like could not.

Apple chooses to be a crap, greedy, corporation. When people think of all the "greedy" companies of the 90s, that's Apple. 100%. Jobs would have had it no other way.

Jobs wasn't back to running Apple until 1997, and that was considered an interim position until 2000; his influence wasn't really obvious until 1998 or even 1999. The Apple of the '90s was Sculley, Spindler and Amelio, and ironically those were the ones trying to pursue the Windows PC-style strategy (OS licensing, complex product matrices that try to appeal to absolutely everyone).

I also find it odd that people are shocked, shocked that Apple is a corporation that likes profit, as if Dell or Samsung are selfless entities interested only in the betterment of humanity. No, it's just that Apple's strategy is focused on higher-end, higher profit margin products rather than sheer volume, and that strategy has worked. I do appreciate companies that cater to the entry level and make tech more accessible, but I'm also not a fan of the race-to-the-bottom approach in the PC world (not as much the phone space) that hurts users for the sake of a lower price.

 

[Lakados]

Yup, bingo, on both.

People then cry "made in the USA!" Ya, like you really are going to be willing to pay $3k-$4k now for your shiny new Iphone / Google / Samsung phone...

It’s been shown that paying people who assemble our devices a union $25h wage would add between $3-5 per device. Where the problem lies is with their environmental impact, costs a few 100k to build a tech sweatshop in India who dumps the waste untreated a few 100km into some unpopulated desert. Costs a few billion to build one that properly reclamates the waste. Nobody wants to build one of them in the US.

The other problem is with logistics, in India and China you have raw material to a shipping port all within a 100k radius, in the US you would be shipping materials to production facilities to assembly plants to shipping ports all across the country.

The US has not spent any meaningful amounts in maintaining or updating their large scale manufacturing in the same way that they have in India and China due to lax environmental regulations there.

 

[sharknice]

It’s been shown that paying people who assemble our devices a union $25h wage would add between $3-5 per device. Where the problem lies is with their environmental impact, costs a few 100k to build a tech sweatshop in India who dumps the waste untreated a few 100km into some unpopulated desert. Costs a few billion to build one that properly reclamates the waste. Nobody wants to build one of them in the US.

The other problem is with logistics, in India and China you have raw material to a shipping port all within a 100k radius, in the US you would be shipping materials to production facilities to assembly plants to shipping ports all across the country.

The US has not spent any meaningful amounts in maintaining or updating their large scale manufacturing in the same way that they have in India and China due to lax environmental regulations there.

Yeah the wages are basically nothing compared to the costs of moving everything else to the US. There is a massive, complex supply chain, tons of different parts being put together and all those parts having parts, and all the parts having material that needs to be created and mined. It would take decades and trillions of dollars to bring all of that to the USA. A lot of it regulations would simply make unfeasible.
If it was simply "assembled in the USA" that would be doable. You can ship all the different parts from China and assemble them in the US and slowly work backwards until everything is in the US. But what's the point really?

 

[M76]

Sure, "could" but would never happen for the very reasons you just noted, as to why the phone would cost 3-4x more. Also, factory jobs are a job either way and plenty of unemployed people in North America who would happily take those min wage paying jobs.

They can't simply sell phones for 3-4x more, because very few people would buy them. And if they aren't selling enough then they don't make money, and since they are in the business of making money they'd need to keep volume up by eating some or most of the costs. The reason they are using sweatshops is not because that is the only viable way to make the product, it's because they are allowed to do so. Have you ever asked yourself why is it economical to make cars in the US, but not phones?

 

[MrGuvernment]

They can't simply sell phones for 3-4x more, because very few people would buy them. And if they aren't selling enough then they don't make money, and since they are in the business of making money they'd need to keep volume up by eating some or most of the costs. The reason they are using sweatshops is not because that is the only viable way to make the product, it's because they are allowed to do so. Have you ever asked yourself why is it economical to make cars in the US, but not phones?

Valid points..
As for cars, how much of the electronics of them are all made over seas and shipped to North America?

 

[ChadD]

This is what happens when you deregulate the world market. One of two evils need to go for this stuff to stop... one global free trade, or two corporate structures.
If you allow your companies to prioritize profits over all else... you get far worse then this.
If you allow companies to procure production from anywhere in the world with zero or minimal barriers this is also what you get... just somewhere where most people won't notice. (at one time it was very expensive to outsource production oversees due to taxes on trade... as it should be India should produce for India. The US should produce for the US)

Obviously neither of those things are going to happen until our current system crashes. Who knows perhaps whatever society replaces ours will figure these things out. lol

 

[Lakados]

Valid points..
As for cars, how much of the electronics of them are all made over seas and shipped to North America?

Just about all of them. But the Auto Industry has put a great deal of time, effort, and resources; into building a very comprehensive and complex supply and supply chain. Their Just In Time manufacturing methods have allowed them to do a great deal of things that other industries can't manage, but those same methods have been to their detriment these past 2 years as their supply chains are being demolished from all sorts of reasons which could be a thread onto themselves.

 

[M76]

Valid points..
As for cars, how much of the electronics of them are all made over seas and shipped to North America?

I don't know about the US, but here in the EU carmakers make a point of using local supply chains. It is beneficial to have factories here because of the knock on effect of their supply chain, not just that they employ a few thousand people directly.
Now the chips themselves are probably made in taiwan or other asian countries, but chips are not made in sweatshops, foxconn is not a chipmaker.

 

[vegeta535]

I don't know about the US, but here in the EU carmakers make a point of using local supply chains. It is beneficial to have factories here because of the knock on effect of their supply chain, not just that they employ a few thousand people directly.
Now the chips themselves are probably made in taiwan or other asian countries, but chips are not made in sweatshops, foxconn is not a chipmaker.

The American car industry is a joke. Foreign car makers produce more cars in America then the big 3. Toyota, Honda, Suburu and even BMW have plants in America. Most American cars are made in Mexico with some higher end model being made in Canada. Hell GM is sending some of their assembly to China now. All of them proabably made of parts sourced from sweat shops in China.

 

[M76]

The American car industry is a joke. Foreign car makers produce more cars in America then the big 3. Toyota, Honda, Suburu and even BMW have plants in America. Most American cars are made in Mexico with some higher end model being made in Canada. Hell GM is sending some of their assembly to China now. All of them proabably made of parts sourced from sweat shops in China.

So that further proves that it's economically viable to produce goods locally. if only US companies move production out of the country, then the problem is surely their management who want to nickel and dime everything.

 

[OFaceSIG]

The US has not spent any meaningful amounts in maintaining or updating their large scale manufacturing in the same way that they have in India and China due to lax environmental regulations there.

Of all you said, this is what I believe to be accurate and agree with.

 

[NIZMOZ]

I think the difference is, Apple has cracked the code. You usually get either really high margins, and no volume. Like lets say Lambo. Or you get high volume but no margins, like Walmart. Apple has cracked the code. Everybody and their mama has an Iphone and they make a bundle on each device. They could EASILY make iPhones in the US and still make good money per phone. Google, Samsung, Oneplus and the like could not.

Apple chooses to be a crap, greedy, corporation. When people think of all the "greedy" companies of the 90s, that's Apple. 100%. Jobs would have had it no other way.

Samsung does the same thing. Their S21 Ultra costs around $600 to make, but they sell it for $1000-$1400. Actually Apple makes less per phone than Samsung does on theirs in comparison due to higher quality materials.

https://www.androidauthority.com/samsung-galaxy-s21-series-bom-cost-1221937/

 

[Comixbooks]

I had something happen at Walmart this week a guy was trying to get my attention outside the door. Pointing at his Cell Phone. So I opened the side door to talk to him the store was already closed. He said somone stole hes Mom's Cell Phone he wanted me to listen to the Cell Phone Kiosk where someone got money for the phone to see if the Ring Tone was going off. I went to the machine sure enough some Western Style Ring Tone was going off. The guy walked away he probably had to call customer service or something those Kiosks are actually good for something returning lost cell phones =)

 

[DukenukemX]

I also find it odd that people are shocked, shocked that Apple is a corporation that likes profit, as if Dell or Samsung are selfless entities interested only in the betterment of humanity.

People are shocked that Apple will pursue profits over human rights. It's not food poisoning employees but a misunderstanding from the supplier. - Tim Cook probably

No, it's just that Apple's strategy is focused on higher-end, higher profit margin products rather than sheer volume, and that strategy has worked. I do appreciate companies that cater to the entry level and make tech more accessible, but I'm also not a fan of the race-to-the-bottom approach in the PC world (not as much the phone space) that hurts users for the sake of a lower price.

Lower prices don't hurt users, higher prices do. Just because it has a higher price doesn't make it a high end product. It's like buying a BMW or Mercedes thinking that you bought a high end car due to price, but meanwhile the Toyota and Lexus owners are wondering if the turn signal is broken or you're just a typical BMW owner. They're not sure which is it is because both are very likely to be true. Kinda works the same with Apple except that when Apple removes a feature they call it "courage", and when their keyboards mess up we somehow forgot that this is not what a high end product does. When one of Apple's factories does a bad, which seems to be a yearly thing, that's on Foxconn for like the hundredth time.

Either way Apple makes an absurd amount of money and there's no excuse for treating their employees terribly other than to appeal to shareholders.

 

[GotNoRice]

I just wonder - if Apple or Foxconn simply shut down their India factory, would the people there be better or worse? If they hate it so much, why don't they just quit and do something else? No other jobs? Hmmm... then maybe they should just shut up and be happy to be employed at all?

 

[vegeta535]

I just wonder - if Apple or Foxconn simply shut down their India factory, would the people there be better or worse? If they hate it so much, why don't they just quit and do something else? No other jobs? Hmmm... then maybe they should just shut up and be happy to be employed at all?

Proabably worst off. Remember lots of these companies at least give them housing for the garbage pay. Even if the housing and food is garbage itself. Better then being dead in the gutter.

 

[Aurelius]

I just wonder - if Apple or Foxconn simply shut down their India factory, would the people there be better or worse? If they hate it so much, why don't they just quit and do something else? No other jobs? Hmmm... then maybe they should just shut up and be happy to be employed at all?

They'd be worse off, but that's not saying a whole lot. And I'm never a big fan of the "just be happy you have a job" mindset — companies take advantage of that to push people to their breaking points. Apple can only do so much itself, but Foxconn at the least has a responsibility to improve working conditions.

 

[DukenukemX]

They'd be worse off, but that's not saying a whole lot. And I'm never a big fan of the "just be happy you have a job" mindset — companies take advantage of that to push people to their breaking points. Apple can only do so much itself, but Foxconn at the least has a responsibility to improve working conditions.

The homeless in America is a reminder that if you stop working for any job then that's your future. Meanwhile in China.

 

[flegg]

Wouldnt need to make as many new phones if you didnt brick the old ones.

 

[Jinto]

Apple (and others) manufacture in China and India for very different reasons. China's labor cost is lower than the US but it is expensive now in comparison to Vietnam, India etc. Even environmental regulations are much more stringent than before. The advantage is mostly in the scale of manufacturing and efficiency of the supply chain. India on the other hand is because of tariffs on imports. So Apple and others need to squeeze a lot more out of labor cost to make the pricing reasonable and the products are mostly for domestic sales.

 

[NeoNemesis]

corporations are beholden to their shareholders and nobody else. Expecting Apple to do something that hurts it for the sake of humanity is like expecting someone to cut off their foot because you’ve asked nicely.

 

[HockeyJon]

You can make an iPhone in USA and not cost any extra over it being made in China or India. Apple is worth trillions of dollars so they can afford to do it, but then investors wouldn't be happy if Apple isn't making an absurb amount of money as they do now. Not that we Americans should want manufacturing jobs because they suck. From the sounds of it these people live and eat at the factory. Sounds like something out of SCP 001 The Factory.

Well the problem is that even if you could, China has all the infrastructure to do it now, so you'd need a huge capital investment to set things up here. That's not going to be done without an express need to do so, although it's beginning to in some cases. A good example is the situation with semiconductors and Western governments finally, after decades, somehow coming to the realization that maybe outsourcing the manufacture of strategic products and resources to your geopolitical enemies isn't the best of decisions (who knew, am I right?), which is why you're now seeing silicon fabs and vaccine manufacturing facilities being constructed in countries like the US. Of course, those companies also realize that Western governments are willing to pay them for it, so they lobby for tax "incentives" because otherwise it "totally can't be done", and can offload the costs of capital to you and I, the taxpayers, in order to fund the construction of their strategically important manufacturing facilities while they keep the profits internally and your local politician gets to make an announcement that they created a few jobs and the $20 million investment they spent per $50,000 per year job is justified.

 

[NickM]

The homeless in America is a reminder that if you stop working for any job then that's your future. Meanwhile in China.

TikTok? Seriously? Is that where you go for information these days? And the day that I take what Chinese people (who ONLY see what their government wants them to) say as a guiding light is they day you should just shoot me, as it would be an indicator that I have lost all reason and have given in to stupidity.

 

[DukenukemX]

Well the problem is that even if you could, China has all the infrastructure to do it now, so you'd need a huge capital investment to set things up here. That's not going to be done without an express need to do so, although it's beginning to in some cases. A good example is the situation with semiconductors and Western governments finally, after decades, somehow coming to the realization that maybe outsourcing the manufacture of strategic products and resources to your geopolitical enemies isn't the best of decisions (who knew, am I right?), which is why you're now seeing silicon fabs and vaccine manufacturing facilities being constructed in countries like the US. Of course, those companies also realize that Western governments are willing to pay them for it, so they lobby for tax "incentives" because otherwise it "totally can't be done", and can offload the costs of capital to you and I, the taxpayers, in order to fund the construction of their strategically important manufacturing facilities while they keep the profits internally and your local politician gets to make an announcement that they created a few jobs and the $20 million investment they spent per $50,000 per year job is justified.

I'm not in favor of manufacturing jobs since we can automate them and nobody wants to work in them. There's a reason why Apple in China had to install suicide nets. I'm more concerned about the abuse of humans, not the movement of manufacturing to the US. Though it would make sense to make things here since as you said you don't want your enemies making your strategic products outside of your nation.

corporations are beholden to their shareholders and nobody else. Expecting Apple to do something that hurts it for the sake of humanity is like expecting someone to cut off their foot because you’ve asked nicely.

If they aren't doing things for the sake of humanity then their incentives are not lined up in our favor. We're OK with it since we're not the ones working in factories. We got nice office jobs where we stand around the water cooler talking about last nights episode of our favorite TV show.

TikTok? Seriously? Is that where you go for information these days? And the day that I take what Chinese people (who ONLY see what their government wants them to) say as a guiding light is they day you should just shoot me, as it would be an indicator that I have lost all reason and have given in to stupidity.

Yea I get it, you discredit me by pointing out my shitty source. Common response 101. So here's a not Chinese person telling you about the lack of homelessness in China. China is not a great country but they do have some good points.

 

[Red Falcon]

The homeless in America is a reminder that if you stop working for any job then that's your future. Meanwhile in China.

I agree, and while the government is fully enabling this, there is something to be said about 21st century culture in the USA that is causing this callousness towards those with less, and especially those with mental illnesses who legitimately need real love, support, and assistance - not just psychotropic drugs to enable them to thus further fuel the pharmaceutical megacorps.
This was taken in California this month in 2022:

From Neon Dystopia:

This quote puts the cyber/punk and the “High Tech, Low Life,” dichotomy into context.
There exists today high technology, but this technology has failed to erode away social divisions leaving a disparity between the classes which leads to social strife.

In addition, although this technology exists the low class does not have the means by which to benefit from it, thus widening the divide as the rich elite get richer and thus have more access to technology.

“The future is already here — it’s just not very evenly distributed.” – William Gibson

 

[rinaldo00]

I'm not in favor of manufacturing jobs since we can automate them and nobody wants to work in them. There's a reason why Apple in China had to install suicide nets. I'm more concerned about the abuse of humans, not the movement of manufacturing to the US. Though it would make sense to make things here since as you said you don't want your enemies making your strategic products outside of your nation.


If they aren't doing things for the sake of humanity then their incentives are not lined up in our favor. We're OK with it since we're not the ones working in factories. We got nice office jobs where we stand around the water cooler talking about last nights episode of our favorite TV show.


Yea I get it, you discredit me by pointing out my shitty source. Common response 101. So here's a not Chinese person telling you about the lack of homelessness in China. China is not a great country but they do have some good points.

There are no homeless in China because they are either imprisoned or killed.

 

[Red Falcon]

There are no homeless in China because they are either imprisoned or killed.

Exactly, under true Communism the government cleans up the waste.
Under Socialism X Corporatism, the Socialist government has the megacorps clean up the waste.

Different ways from point A to point B, but to point B they get, regardless.

 

[NickM]

I'm not in favor of manufacturing jobs since we can automate them and nobody wants to work in them. There's a reason why Apple in China had to install suicide nets. I'm more concerned about the abuse of humans, not the movement of manufacturing to the US. Though it would make sense to make things here since as you said you don't want your enemies making your strategic products outside of your nation.


If they aren't doing things for the sake of humanity then their incentives are not lined up in our favor. We're OK with it since we're not the ones working in factories. We got nice office jobs where we stand around the water cooler talking about last nights episode of our favorite TV show.


Yea I get it, you discredit me by pointing out my shitty source. Common response 101. So here's a not Chinese person telling you about the lack of homelessness in China. China is not a great country but they do have some good points.

The TikTok part was incidental. Most of my issue was the lack of discernment in your sources. I will not deny the HUGE homeless issues here in the US (I live close to Portland, OR for God's sake!) but for the vast majority of the home less, this is entirely self inflicted.
It's amazing how when a given government sanctions and/or enables behavior, they get more of it.
Almost all of these people *could* have jobs and be supporting themselves.
However, they would rather go for the expense-free enabled lifestyle.
Yep, I'm a selfish, non-caring bastard. I've heard it all already and it just get's nothing more than an eyeroll from me anymore.

 

[gigaxtreme1]

The world has reached a very high population density. This is obvious just from the large number of refugee/immigrants attempting to seek asylum in our and other countries. With the ongoing competition for resources the future does not look too pretty.

 

[DukenukemX]

I agree, and while the government is fully enabling this, there is something to be said about 21st century culture in the USA that is causing this callousness towards those with less, and especially those with mental illnesses who legitimately need real love, support, and assistance - not just psychotropic drugs to enable them to thus further fuel the pharmaceutical megacorps.

Manufacturing jobs won't fix this, but it will increase the amount of mental illnesses that people can acquire. A job isn't a solution, but it is profitable for private business owners. Any manufacturing brought over to America won't pay well and will demand employee's to over work. This is why Apple doesn't make anything here, because our labor laws aren't as shit as China or India.

This was taken in California this month in 2022:

View attachment 430510

From Neon Dystopia:


“The future is already here — it’s just not very evenly distributed.” – William Gibson

I saw an old woman who was dumped at my local Walgreens with what little items she had with her. It was freezing cold and she wore what looked like a hospital would give her. She was clearly mentally unstable and she would talk to herself and scream at people passing by her. The cops eventually came but this is what we do. Profits over people.

 

[Wat]

The world has reached a very high population density. This is obvious just from the large number of refugee/immigrants attempting to seek asylum in our and other countries. With the ongoing competition for resources the future does not look too pretty.

Thats the price of peace.

 

[Wat]

I saw an old woman who was dumped at my local Walgreens with what little items she had with her. It was freezing cold and she wore what looked like a hospital would give her. She was clearly mentally unstable and she would talk to herself and scream at people passing by her. The cops eventually came but this is what we do. Profits over people.

Hospital dumping has been illegal for decades. Did you call the police? Did you give a statement? Was the hospital held accountable?

If you didn't, what kind of person are you? People in glass houses...