Apple Developing Mental Health Monitor for iPhone

Aurelius

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according to them "the tool could help diagnose deppression and cognitive decline."

so what happens when it's detected? authorities allerted? rights suspended? this is some 1984 stuff if you ask me...

https://uk.pcmag.com/iphone-apps/13...developing-a-mental-health-monitor-for-iphone
Can we please drop the hyperbole?

Most likely, Apple would do what it already does with other health detection features, like atrial fibrillation — notify the user so they can contact their doctor if they're concerned. Knowing how Apple actually does things, I can't see how this would be anything other than a help if it's reasonably accurate.
 

Mchart

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according to them "the tool could help diagnose deppression and cognitive decline."

so what happens when it's detected? authorities allerted? rights suspended? this is some 1984 stuff if you ask me...

https://uk.pcmag.com/iphone-apps/13...developing-a-mental-health-monitor-for-iphone
Please. It's just going to be an additional module added to the Health app in iOS and will likely give you an alert if you even want it. No different compared to the million of other alerts/features within the Health app that you can enable.
 

Aurelius

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This is despicable.
How? Like we've said earlier in the thread, Apple isn't going to be alerting the feds or forcing you to go to the hospital if this comes true. It'll just be another health alert that you can use for an informed discussion with your doctor.

I know people are wary of Apple's practices, but there's a difference between caution and assuming Apple always does things with sinister intent. It's not Snidely Whiplash tying people to railroad tracks; it's a company using health alerts as a selling point.
 

Mchart

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As if the government even gave a crap about people being depressed. From what i've witnessed they want people to be depressed so we all stay inside and do nothing all day/night anyways.
 

sfsuphysics

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If you're going to get all tin foil hatty on this at least focus on what information is given
, and pharmaceutical company Biogen Inc

So they are going to find a way to get more people saying they're depressed and then pop some pills to fix it. As that seems to be the direction the US has gone with all sorts of problems from mental health to old age. Here take some pills to deal with it but you're on your own to actually pay for any kind of care.
 

Aurelius

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I feel like this is going to be a colossal failure. What happens if it wrongly thinks you're depressed? How often is that going to happen?
First, let's find out how accurate it is if and when it becomes a feature. Apple would likely need to get regulatory approval, and that means trials.

And again, it's not as if Apple will dispatch hospital workers, tell your employer or otherwise force you to take a specific course of action. The worst case: you go to your doctor or psychiatrist, they say Apple got it wrong and you move on.
 

sfsuphysics

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I feel like this is going to be a colossal failure. What happens if it wrongly thinks you're depressed? How often is that going to happen?
This is why any health apps tend to have some legalese that says "this is not to be taken as medical advice" or something along those lines. I mean Apple doesn't have any authority to prescribe drugs to treat anything, so you'd have to go to a doctor. Worst case scenario you have a bunch of hypochondriac Apple users making more appointments to see their doctor about depression.
 

rinaldo00

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How? Like we've said earlier in the thread, Apple isn't going to be alerting the feds or forcing you to go to the hospital if this comes true. It'll just be another health alert that you can use for an informed discussion with your doctor.

I know people are wary of Apple's practices, but there's a difference between caution and assuming Apple always does things with sinister intent. It's not Snidely Whiplash tying people to railroad tracks; it's a company using health alerts as a selling point.
It is despicable because ALL of these "heath apps" are wildly inaccurate. It is bad enough when dealing with calories burned or blood pressure but now you will have a bunch of Karens self diagnosing SERIOUS mental problems WITH A PHONE APP!
 

Aurelius

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It is despicable because ALL of these "heath apps" are wildly inaccurate. It is bad enough when dealing with calories burned or blood pressure but now you will have a bunch of Karens self diagnosing SERIOUS mental problems WITH A PHONE APP!
That's overgeneralized and dismissive. Apple isn't under the illusion that it's providing a perfect snapshot of your heart health, and tells users as much. But it does offer meaningful information that leads to important conversations with doctors. There are now many stories of Apple Watch owners getting the AFib alert, talking to their doctor, and getting in-time treatment for an issue they might have otherwise missed.

And that's what's likely to happen here, if it goes ahead. Apple wouldn't tell users they definitively have depression or declining cognitive functions; it would, however, point them toward doctors that will offer proper help. If you get a well-informed alert suggesting you see a doctor and deliberately ignore it... well, that's on you, not Apple.
 

Mchart

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It is despicable because ALL of these "heath apps" are wildly inaccurate. It is bad enough when dealing with calories burned or blood pressure but now you will have a bunch of Karens self diagnosing SERIOUS mental problems WITH A PHONE APP!
The features in the Health app have been approved for use through the normal regulatory/legal process. They already have a number of things that are game changing, like detecting blood O2 levels, and ECG. The blood O2 level sensing via the Apple Watch helps me determine how bad my sleep apnea gets each night, and actually convinced me to really force myself to start using the CPAP machine more because I could see over time how dangerous my levels were without using the CPAP machine.

Also, as stated, many of the heart rate features have alerted people to issues that they would have otherwise never known about. Think about how amazing it is that for only a couple hundred bucks you can get a device that detects all of these things. In the past you'd have to spend thousands getting the tests done at a hospital, and these tests aren't being done every day, so they might miss stuff anyways.

This depression 'sensing' could also be a game changer for people with bipolar disorder, and alerting them to issues.
 
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rinaldo00

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That's overgeneralized and dismissive. Apple isn't under the illusion that it's providing a perfect snapshot of your heart health, and tells users as much. But it does offer meaningful information that leads to important conversations with doctors. There are now many stories of Apple Watch owners getting the AFib alert, talking to their doctor, and getting in-time treatment for an issue they might have otherwise missed.

And that's what's likely to happen here, if it goes ahead. Apple wouldn't tell users they definitively have depression or declining cognitive functions; it would, however, point them toward doctors that will offer proper help. If you get a well-informed alert suggesting you see a doctor and deliberately ignore it... well, that's on you, not Apple.
You are GROSSLY overestimating the rationality of the general public and even more grossly overestimating the rationality of people with MENTAL HEALTH PROBLEMS!
We are talking about a society that gets health advice from youtube influencers. Here, for example, is a person that will get an alert from Apple and will calmly seek out a .
doctor for advice.
tenor.gif
 

Mchart

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You are GROSSLY overestimating the rationality of the general public and even more grossly overestimating the rationality of people with MENTAL HEALTH PROBLEMS!
We are talking about a society that gets health advice from youtube influencers. Here, for example, is a person that will get an alert from Apple and will calmly seek out a .
doctor for advice.
tenor.gif
They'll do that anyways without the alert. I don't think you understand how something like bipolar disorder works. Having an alert tell someone early on that they are falling into depression has way more positive outcomes than negative. By the time you realize you're in a depression it's already *really* bad since it's so hard to perceive what's going on with your own brain/mind.
 

rinaldo00

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The features in the Health app have been approved for use through the normal regulatory/legal process. They already have a number of things that are game changing, like detecting blood O2 levels, and ECG. The blood O2 level sensing via the Apple Watch helps me determine how bad my sleep apnea gets each night, and actually convinced me to really force myself to start using the CPAP machine more because I could see over time how dangerous my levels were without using the CPAP machine.

Also, as stated, many of the heart rate features have alerted people to issues that they would have otherwise never known about. Think about how amazing it is that for only a couple hundred bucks you can get a device that detects all of these things. In the past you'd have to spend thousands getting the tests done at a hospital, and these tests aren't being done every day, so they might miss stuff anyways.

This depression 'sensing' could also be a game changer for people with bipolar disorder, and alerting them to issues.
And it could be misused just as easily.
 

rinaldo00

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They'll do that anyways without the alert. I don't think you understand how something like bipolar disorder works. Having an alert tell someone early on that they are falling into depression has way more positive outcomes than negative.
IF you are competent to understand it! I think the negatives outweigh the positives.
 

Mchart

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IF you are competent to understand it! I think the negatives outweigh the positives.
There isn't much to understand. You get an alert, you call up your psychiatrist and work it from there, instead of waiting another two months to fall even deeper to where said person can't even get out of bed anymore because their brains are so chemically imbalanced.

Honestly, from your attitude, it seems you literally have no idea what some people deal with and how/why something like this could be so helpful.
 

rinaldo00

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Anything can be misused. Might as well just not have any technology in your house. I hear cameras capture your soul so satan can harvest it.
LOL
Reductio ad absurdum is also known as "reducing to an absurdity." It involves characterizing an opposing argument in such a way that it seems to be ridiculous, or the consequences of the position seem ridiculous. ... The reductio ad absurdum fallacy is similar to the straw person fallacy.
 

rinaldo00

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There isn't much to understand. You get an alert, you call up your psychiatrist and work it from there, instead of waiting another two months to fall even deeper to where said person can't even get out of bed anymore because their brains are so chemically imbalanced.

Honestly, from your attitude, it seems you literally have no idea what some people deal with and how/why something like this could be so helpful.
I don't think you understand how depression works.
 

idiomatic

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Comparing the way you post with the way you message your 'friends' versus the way you manage relationships via text message, and the shit you say in your sleep, Apple recommends you talk to your doctor about possible schizophrenia or borderline personality disorder. Given that you buy Apple you might also want to look into Narcissistic Personality Disorder. Or maybe you are just a manipulative asshole.
 

rinaldo00

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There isn't much to understand. You get an alert, you call up your psychiatrist and work it from there, instead of waiting another two months to fall even deeper to where said person can't even get out of bed anymore because their brains are so chemically imbalanced.

Honestly, from your attitude, it seems you literally have no idea what some people deal with and how/why something like this could be so helpful.
Now you are making unfounded assumptions. I suffered a severe car accident and have been diagnosed with clinical depression, am taking medication, and am being monitored by a psychiatrist every two weeks.
 

Lakados

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Ironic given that heavy use of social media and smartphones directly contributes to depression and anxiety
Apple will discover this firsthand. They will discover that the data doesn't help with their profits. They will have a decision to make: Do something about it or hide it under the covers.

They'll hide it under the covers. They already knew the problems. Steve Jobs supposedly didn't let his kids on the crack
 

peppergomez

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Apple will discover this firsthand. They will discover that the data doesn't help with their profits. They will have a decision to make: Do something about it or hide it under the covers.

They'll hide it under the covers. They already knew the problems. Steve Jobs supposedly didn't let his kids on the crack
Agreed. This is all just so much "shiny woke capitalism" lip service for PR value. These companies are inherently sociopathic, they only care about people in as far as exploiting them for data and profits. They've just come close to mastering the art of making it seem like they care. The fact that people like Sheryl Sandburg are seen by many as role models in an indication of how naive and screwed up our culture is.

Imo Facebook is one of the greatest threats to civilization, far more so than say North Korea, the Trump cult, Putin, etc.
 
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